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Is it possible to simplify bills in congress so it's easier to gain bipartisan support and action on specific issues?

Anomalism

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It seems to me that riders on bills cause issues too often. The devil is always in the details. I understand that sometimes a bill requires many pieces to move, and that it can't always be some small and simple text, but so often it goes way beyond just fleshing out one idea. They constantly try to be sneaky and tack other bullshit on, and both sides are really bad about this. Why does some random piece of legislation that could potentially get bipartisan support have to have some controversial shit about abortion in it? If it's not abortion it'll be some other wedge issue.

Why?

If I wanted a bill to pass I wouldn't include stuff like that. I would focus it as much as possible in an attempt to make it more reasonable and palatable. Are our politicians fucking idiots or is there some kind of conspiracy going on here? It's hard to tell sometimes.
 
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Mac1958

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It seems to me that riders on bills cause issues too often. The devil is always in the details. I understand that sometimes a bill requires many pieces to move, and that it can't always be some small and simple text, but so often it goes way beyond just fleshing out one idea. They constantly try to be sneaky and tack other bullshit on there, and both sides are really bad about this. Why does some random piece of legislation that could potentially get bipartisan support have to have some controversial shit about abortion in it? If it's not abortion it'll be some other wedge issue.

Why?

If I wanted a bill to pass I wouldn't include stuff like that. I would focus it as much as possible in an attempt to make it more reasonable and palatable. Are our politicians fucking idiots or is there some kind of conspiracy going on here? It's hard to tell sometimes.
Yep. This is one obvious fix to the problem: Smaller bites taken one at a time, so that they can be fleshed out, debated, revised as needed, and passed. But these people aren't going to change the system under which they operate.

Look at what they can do: They can hold a bill hostage until they can get their pork tossed in, so the pork just piles up from all over the country. They can throw in things that have NOTHING to do with a bill so they can push their agenda. So these bills become so fat and convoluted and expensive that they become virtually unrecognizable.

The problem is THE SYSTEM. It incentivizes these people to behave the way they do because it rewards their top priority: Re-election. Evidently we're fine with this, especially those on the ends of the spectrum who only care about "beating" the other side.

#ForwardParty
 
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maybelooking

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The "why" seems easy to me.

The things we actually hear about that are hidden in these bills are a drop in the bucket. There are many more hidden agenda items in there we never even know about. Our govt. doesn't really care if we the people want these things or not. It has become about what THEY WANT. So they create several hundred page monstrosities in order to get THEIR PET PROJECTS passed rather than what is best for US.
 
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Anomalism

Anomalism

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They could not get bipartisan support for water if their asses were on fire.
Stuff does get passed though. They're capable of that. I don't believe this is true. I think bipartisan cooperation is so hard because people in congress are negotiating dishonestly and inefficiently.
 

Lisa558

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The "why" seems easy to me.

The things we actually hear about that are hidden in these bills are a drop in the bucket. There are many more hidden agenda items in there we never even know about. Our govt. doesn't really care if we the people want these things or not. It has become about what THEY WANT. So they create several hundred page monstrosities in order to get THEIR PET PROJECTS passed rather than what is best for US.
Agree. How many here know that the multi-trillion dollar bill contains a provision to increase the government child support check (which liberals call a “tax credit”) to $8,000 per child, up from $3,000. And of course it would be tax-free, making it equivalent to earning $20,000 if you have two kids.

So that means that the mother who would have taken one of the millions of part-time jobs that are begging in order to help support her family - say $15/hr for 20 hours a week to earn $15,000 - now would get MORE than that just sitting home. And businesses would be even more unable to staff.

Be very, very wary of what it is the America-destroying bill.
 

maybelooking

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Agree. How many here know that the multi-trillion dollar bill contains a provision to increase the government child support check (which liberals call a “tax credit”) to $8,000 per child, up from $3,000. And of course it would be tax-free, making it equivalent to earning $20,000 if you have two kids.

So that means that the mother wno would have taken one of the millions of part-time jobs that are begging - say $15/hr for 20 hours a week to earn $15,000 now would get MORE than that just sitting home.

Be very, very wary of what it is the America-destroying bill.
yep.

and I will admit I know very little about most of these monstrosity bills because who the fuck takes the time to read a bill that's 500 or more pages long? most on BOTH sides never read them and then we debate and argue over them here like we know what the fuck is going on!!!! Even the morons in Congress who hold the power to change OUR LIVES FOREVER don't typically read them.

its comical when you think about it.
 
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Anomalism

Anomalism

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It seems that at least among everyday people we can get bipartisan support for the idea that bills in congress are way too convoluted, and that that's probably intentional. I don't believe it's impossible to improve this issue.
 

Obiwan

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I agree.....

If "you have to pass it to see what's in it" (like Pelosi said about Obozocare), you tend to end up with a pork-laden train wreck.......
 

j-mac

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I've been saying for a while now on these message boards that these 2500 page bills are a disaster....IMHO, each issue should have a stand alone bill, and live or die based on the merits of the bill...
 

occupied

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It seems to me that at least among everyday people we can get bipartisan support for the idea that bills in congress are way too convoluted, and that that's probably intentional. I don't believe it's impossible to improve this issue.
Bills are like that mostly because they need to be lawyer-proof.
 

Hang on sloopy

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It seems to me that riders on bills cause issues too often. The devil is always in the details. I understand that sometimes a bill requires many pieces to move, and that it can't always be some small and simple text, but so often it goes way beyond just fleshing out one idea. They constantly try to be sneaky and tack other bullshit on, and both sides are really bad about this. Why does some random piece of legislation that could potentially get bipartisan support have to have some controversial shit about abortion in it? If it's not abortion it'll be some other wedge issue.

Why?

If I wanted a bill to pass I wouldn't include stuff like that. I would focus it as much as possible in an attempt to make it more reasonable and palatable. Are our politicians fucking idiots or is there some kind of conspiracy going on here? It's hard to tell sometimes.
Libturds are not capable of governing. The self centered bastards who can't even run their family or personal lives. Their lives are so so miserable that they govern by hate and jealousy

Time card punchers and alarm clock button pushers have no business making decisions that can hurt lives

Look at this GD mess libturds voted in by fraud
 

j-mac

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Bills are like that mostly because they need to be lawyer-proof.
Nonsense...Bills are like that because Congresscritters from both sides of the aisle, and the middle see their position as a means to gain power, and enrich themselves...period, end of story.
 
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Anomalism

Anomalism

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Bills are like that mostly because they need to be lawyer-proof.
I understand the need to lawyer-proof something. I get that often that's why the text can be convoluted. It also seems like a really convenient way to prevent the layman from understanding and participating in the conversation. That's not the main issue though. The main issue is trying to shove multi-headed monsters through congress rather than breaking things down into bite-sized pieces, as Mac said. These multi-headed monsters also use the convoluted lawyer language and it's just a really ugly mess that's extremely hard to unpack.

We need to do better than this.
 

maybelooking

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Bills are like that mostly because they need to be lawyer-proof.
Does it stand to reason that if the bill was reduced to a single issue, by nature that language wouldn't need to be nearly as convoluted and "lawyer speak"
 

Lisa558

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yep.

and I will admit I know very little about most of these monstrosity bills because who the fuck takes the time to read a bill that's 500 or more pages long? most on BOTH sides never read them and then we debate and argue over them here like we know what the fuck is going on!!!! Even the morons in Congress who hold the power to change OUR LIVES FOREVER don't typically read them.

its comical when you think about it.
The Congress critters who votEd for Obamacare sure didn’t know what was in that monstrosity. And that witch Pelosi told Americans that they would find out what was in it AFTER they voted on it. Liberals have been shoving their socialist agenda down Americans’ throats for years; it’s just that they’ve become more blatant and extreme since Biden was carried over the finish line.
 

occupied

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Nonsense...Bills are like that because Congresscritters from both sides of the aisle, and the middle see their position as a means to gain power, and enrich themselves...period, end of story.
There's that but making it lawyer proof is the way they get what they are after. It's like a contract. Ambiguity or unintentional loopholes makes it vulnerable to lawsuits.
 

Lisa558

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There's that but making it lawyer proof is the way they get what they are after. It's like a contract. Ambiguity or unintentional loopholes makes it vulnerable to lawsuits.
So to simplify it, they should divide the bill into “chapters,” which each giveaway having its own chapter, introduced by a summary sentence in bold at the start of the chapter. Then, there should be an “overview” section in the beginning of the bill, listing the bolded summary so that readers may go straight to the more obnoxious proposed laws.

Thus….

Chapter 14: The recently expanded “child tax credit” will increase to $8,000 per child per year, an amount not subject to taxation, and provided to all parents with a HHI of $150,000 or less, including illegal aliens, with American-born children.

Chapter 19: Despite the labor shortage, there will no longer be work requirements - set up by President Clinton and which was successful in moving people off welfare - for people to get welfare.
 
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occupied

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Does it stand to reason that if the bill was reduced to a single issue, by nature that language wouldn't need to be nearly as convoluted and "lawyer speak"
I suppose it would depend on the issue at hand. Few modern problems lend themselves to simple solutions. The biggest problem is finding ways to make laws that do not bind the rich to same kinds of responsibilities and penalties as regular people.
 

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