Is it legal to make things up about political enemies?

[basquebromance]

"if I came out for oxygen, Democrats would stop breathing" - Trump

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I don't know much about libel and slander, but doesn't there come a point where a line is crossed? I'll give examples based on degree. As a republican, I am used to republican candidates being called racist or anti-woman. An example would be the war on women campaign against Romney. Again, I'm used to this, and I get it. The next step would be Harry Reid saying Romney didn't pay taxes. I'm having a harder time with this. How is this okay? Reid just laughed and said it worked. We also have constant lines of female accusers trotted out late into many campaigns. Many of these women are being paid, and after the election, they disappear. They took out Herman Cain this way. Is that legal? Now we have the Clinton campaign creating fake intelligence reports? Holy Cow. How can that be legal? I must also point out the rigged DNC primary. When do political attacks cross the line into illegal behavior? Should republicans start coming out with fake reports saying democrats are cannibals who torture puppies? Would that be entirely okay?

Apparently it's even legal to spy on opponents through government granted warrants justified with fraudulent reports.

No, it's not legal. They just did it anyway. And I'm sure that if these judges could be exposed (which they can't) they would come out with charges against those who misled them.

If it is sworn testimony, then that is perjury and different.
But US law as gutted libel and slander for public figures like politicians, so that you can pretty much say whatever you want about a public figure.
You just have to couch it as an opinion instead of a provable fact.
If you prove the libel or slander wrong, that is not enough to win.
You have to prove they KNEW it was absolutely wrong at the time, and still deliberately said it anyway.

{...
Political libel
No longer exists in most English speaking jurisdictions
In most developed countries, a combination of discouragement to vexatious litigation, general recognition of chilling effects, and sometimes formal definition of a strategic lawsuit against public participation, serve to limit politically motivated libel suits. Many lawyers advise strongly against filing any suit against critics with political motivations. The McLibel case is usually cited as libel law backfiring.

Many jurisdictions established such difficult tests for application of libel law to political statements, even exempting specific types or processes of criticism, that any specifically or overtly political comment has been effectively exempted from tort law:

• Recognizing the chilling effect of such laws, American courts reformed libel law to protect free speech on matters of public interest, where plaintiffs bear onus of proving falsehood, fault and damage. All statements of opinion are immune from liability. This includes almost all political statements.

...}

Political libel - Wikipedia

It has nothing to do with slander, it has to do with falsifying a FISA application. I'm betting Judicial Watch will be all over this until everything is known. I don't know what is covered under the Freedom of Information act, but I'm sure much of it does.

 

[Rigby5]

I don't know much about libel and slander, but doesn't there come a point where a line is crossed? I'll give examples based on degree. As a republican, I am used to republican candidates being called racist or anti-woman. An example would be the war on women campaign against Romney. Again, I'm used to this, and I get it. The next step would be Harry Reid saying Romney didn't pay taxes. I'm having a harder time with this. How is this okay? Reid just laughed and said it worked. We also have constant lines of female accusers trotted out late into many campaigns. Many of these women are being paid, and after the election, they disappear. They took out Herman Cain this way. Is that legal? Now we have the Clinton campaign creating fake intelligence reports? Holy Cow. How can that be legal? I must also point out the rigged DNC primary. When do political attacks cross the line into illegal behavior? Should republicans start coming out with fake reports saying democrats are cannibals who torture puppies? Would that be entirely okay?

Apparently it's even legal to spy on opponents through government granted warrants justified with fraudulent reports.

No, it's not legal. They just did it anyway. And I'm sure that if these judges could be exposed (which they can't) they would come out with charges against those who misled them.

If it is sworn testimony, then that is perjury and different.
But US law as gutted libel and slander for public figures like politicians, so that you can pretty much say whatever you want about a public figure.
You just have to couch it as an opinion instead of a provable fact.
If you prove the libel or slander wrong, that is not enough to win.
You have to prove they KNEW it was absolutely wrong at the time, and still deliberately said it anyway.

{...
Political libel
No longer exists in most English speaking jurisdictions
In most developed countries, a combination of discouragement to vexatious litigation, general recognition of chilling effects, and sometimes formal definition of a strategic lawsuit against public participation, serve to limit politically motivated libel suits. Many lawyers advise strongly against filing any suit against critics with political motivations. The McLibel case is usually cited as libel law backfiring.

Many jurisdictions established such difficult tests for application of libel law to political statements, even exempting specific types or processes of criticism, that any specifically or overtly political comment has been effectively exempted from tort law:

• Recognizing the chilling effect of such laws, American courts reformed libel law to protect free speech on matters of public interest, where plaintiffs bear onus of proving falsehood, fault and damage. All statements of opinion are immune from liability. This includes almost all political statements.

...}

Political libel - Wikipedia

It has nothing to do with slander, it has to do with falsifying a FISA application. I'm betting Judicial Watch will be all over this until everything is known. I don't know what is covered under the Freedom of Information act, but I'm sure much of it does.

You don't need a FISA warrant in order to eavesdrop on calls outside the US, or to a Russian ambassador, who already is under a blanket warrant. FISA only applies and is necessary when the government wants to tap a communications between 2 people in the US. If one of them is outside the US, no FISA warrant is needed, even though the word "foreign" is in the name.

{...
The FISA resulted from extensive investigations by Senate Committees into the legality of domestic intelligence activities. These investigations were led separately by Sam Ervin and Frank Church in 1978 as a response to President Richard Nixon’s usage of federal resources to spy on political and activist groups.[2] The act was created to provide judicial and congressional oversight of the government's covert surveillance activities of foreign entities and individuals in the United States, while maintaining the secrecy needed to protect national security.
...}

 

[The Original Tree]

When you file False Affidavits, Commit Perjury, Manufactture Evidence, Omit & Conceal Esculpatory Evidence, Conceal Sourcing, Alter Data, & Abuse The Power of Two Federal Law Enforcement Agencies To Plot To Construct an Insurance Policy to Thwart The Demoractic Process and do this in a FISA Court, in The Director of The FBI’s Office, it’s called Treason and a COUP!

It’s the worst crime a person can commit and it is worthy of the death penalty!

 

[The Original Tree]

And you are woefully devoid of a moral code and ethics.

Now we have the Clinton campaign creating fake intelligence reports?

You are woefully uninformed!!!

 

[The Original Tree]

I wouldn’t be too sure about that as he is still running The FBI, IRS, State Department and DOJ.

How about a President whose speeches are rated in lies per minute.

Obama isn't president any longer.

 

[Rigby5]

When you file False Affidavits, Commit Perjury, Manufactture Evidence, Omit & Conceal Esculpatory Evidence, Conceal Sourcing, Alter Data, & Abuse The Power of Two Federal Law Enforcement Agencies To Plot To Construct an Insurance Policy to Thwart The Demoractic Process and do this in a FISA Court, in The Director of The FBI’s Office, it’s called Treason and a COUP!

It’s the worst crime a person can commit and it is worthy of the death penalty!

Oh come on. No it is not the worst crime a person can commit. It is perjury or invasion of privacy. It is no where near murder or something that really denies rights. But the real point is that if there was invalid testimony, there is a record of it. There is no need for vague claims.
But so far I have not seen any evidence there was anything in a FISA court? And if the communications had one side out of the US, then no FISA court warrant is needed.

 

[Care4all]

And you are woefully devoid of a moral code and ethics.

Now we have the Clinton campaign creating fake intelligence reports?

You are woefully uninformed!!!

sure!

and thanks, coming from you!!!

 

[Avatar4321]

If it was illegal democrats would have been jailed decades ago

 

[radical right]

If it was illegal democrats would have been jailed decades ago

Obama as born in Kenya
Hillary ran a child sex ring out of a washington pizza parlor
Obama wiretaped Trump
Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi

 

[flacaltenn]

I don't know much about libel and slander, but doesn't there come a point where a line is crossed? I'll give examples based on degree. As a republican, I am used to republican candidates being called racist or anti-woman. An example would be the war on women campaign against Romney. Again, I'm used to this, and I get it. The next step would be Harry Reid saying Romney didn't pay taxes. I'm having a harder time with this. How is this okay? Reid just laughed and said it worked. We also have constant lines of female accusers trotted out late into many campaigns. Many of these women are being paid, and after the election, they disappear. They took out Herman Cain this way. Is that legal? Now we have the Clinton campaign creating fake intelligence reports? Holy Cow. How can that be legal? I must also point out the rigged DNC primary. When do political attacks cross the line into illegal behavior? Should republicans start coming out with fake reports saying democrats are cannibals who torture puppies? Would that be entirely okay?

There are MANY clear lines that can be crossed. And one is partisans in the INCUMBENT party hijacking the Worlds' most powerful Domestic Spy system to harass or slime an opponent. Or co-opting an existing DirNatIntel to wrap up a piece of garbage, political hit piece paid for the incumbent party as "an Official Intel Document". And then colluding with the FBI to market and promote said piece of garbage to the media, the public and the FISA court.

Politicians do a pretty complete job of sliming themselves -- given enough time in the Swamp. (John McCain, Maxine Waters, John Boehner).. So it's only the highly illegal stuff -- I'd be worried about..

 

[flacaltenn]

If it was illegal democrats would have been jailed decades ago

Obama as born in Kenya
Hillary ran a child sex ring out of a washington pizza parlor
Obama wiretaped Trump
Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi

One of those is a very real TRUE statement. And 2 of them are not made up.. They have some valid content.

 

[flacaltenn]

Lying about each other is not the only burden politicians have to bear. The other burden is being cold-cocked by the media.. Or entrapped into saying things that can be taken out of context by a hostile media. Or by phony ass "truth checkers" with a predetermined verdict.

So there's an entire n'other world of abuse because the PRESS have become combatants in the partisan wars.

 

[The Original Tree]

People who irrationally traffic in lies when the truth is before them are Persona Non Grata with me.

And you are woefully devoid of a moral code and ethics.

Now we have the Clinton campaign creating fake intelligence reports?

You are woefully uninformed!!!

sure!

and thanks, coming from you!!!

 

[The Original Tree]

So wait The Democrat Party Colluded with Russia and paid Millions for a Fake Dossier to attempt to frame President Trump For Colluding with Russia?

Anyone see a logical fallacy there?

 

[The Original Tree]

Treason is considered a more heinous crime than murder. That is why the sentence historically has been a fast track to expedited death by hanging, firing squad, drawing and quartering, or a trip to the Guillotine for a haircut.

When you file False Affidavits, Commit Perjury, Manufactture Evidence, Omit & Conceal Esculpatory Evidence, Conceal Sourcing, Alter Data, & Abuse The Power of Two Federal Law Enforcement Agencies To Plot To Construct an Insurance Policy to Thwart The Demoractic Process and do this in a FISA Court, in The Director of The FBI’s Office, it’s called Treason and a COUP!

It’s the worst crime a person can commit and it is worthy of the death penalty!

Oh come on. No it is not the worst crime a person can commit. It is perjury or invasion of privacy. It is no where near murder or something that really denies rights. But the real point is that if there was invalid testimony, there is a record of it. There is no need for vague claims.
But so far I have not seen any evidence there was anything in a FISA court? And if the communications had one side out of the US, then no FISA court warrant is needed.