Is it immoral to vote for a politician who calls Islam a religion of peace?
- Thread starter TheGreatGatsby
- Start date
JoeB131
Diamond Member
JoeB131
Diamond Member
I'll tell you exactly what he was. He was a guerrilla fighter who was opposed to westernization. And we were foolish enough to arm him.
No, those laws are barbaric by ANY standards. And there really wasn't a good reason for them. Israel was never a great civilization. In fact, if it weren't for it being adopted as the backstory for Christianity, we'd probably never know it existed at all.
Guy, you read the Koran, but your reading of it would be about as objective as my reading the Book of Mormon.
You went into it believing the Muslims were terribly people, looking for confirmation bias.
TheGreatGatsby
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #84
Let's go with different more relevant percentages; what percent of terrorists are Muslim? What percent of religionist terrorists are Muslim?
GAME, SET, MATCH.
TheGreatGatsby
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #85
Congrats, you found an obscure artwork that probably isn't even from WWII. WWII was not a war for religious supremacy. For you to pretend so is a stretch even for you.
TheGreatGatsby
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #86
So, Osama was a terrorist all along? And he was a terrorist why now?
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I don't need a confirmation about the quran. I've read it. I know that it's the brown person's Mein Kampf. Your only proving your biases....
Esmeralda
Diamond Member
You are so completely, ignorantly wrong. It isn't even worth explaining it to you: people like you prefer to be ignorant because it feeds their biased, bigoted, hate filled agenda.
And BTW, why do you name yourself after a liberal? F. Scott Fitzgerald wrote The Great Gatsby (I'll bet you've only seen the recent movie, which is not very good and doesn't follow the novel very well.). Fitzgerald was a liberal. And the character of Gatsby is not one to be admired but to be pitied.
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buddhallah_the_christ
Senior Member
- Dec 4, 2014
- 372
- 36
- 48
I think it is immoral to vote for politicians like John McCain who are willing to bomb all that they do not like. It seems to me that McCain instead of fly swatter uses Colt. at least
EatMorChikin
Gold Member
And that dishonesty has a reverse effect I believe. It empowers them, like a child is empowered by getting their way. Muslims think they have you whipped, they will take more and more.
EatMorChikin
Gold Member
No you are wrong by a mile! (Rs) won because of the liar in chiefs policies. No way did this country want 2 years of this lameduck runaway train going to hell.
EatMorChikin
Gold Member
You should probably give the koran a read sometime.
EatMorChikin
Gold Member
What race is islam?
And I have asked you this before, never a response.
Isn't supporting islam and homosexuality akin to eating your own young?
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TheGreatGatsby
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #93
You mean that you can't explain the scourge that Islam in glowing terms because that would be a farce. You're the one with the agenda. You think you're helping out the poor trodden down brown man. But when the murderers come to your door or your descendents door, you or they will be singing a different tune.
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And fine...I'll indulge your off-topic inquiries:
- I know all about F Scott Fitzgerald. I know that he was named after none other than the direct descendant F Scott Key, who was quite patriotic and against the gross taxation and lack of liberties. And furthermore, he was born into riches. I dare would say his political roots are quite conservative. Fitzgerald himself worked for big Hollywood later in life and he utterly resented their politics...Hmmm, conservative maybe?
- Actually, I'm sort of talking tongue and cheek about FSF. I don't think he was very political at all. In truth, he was apolitical and quite the romanticist. He was an independent spirit, which is frankly more of what I can relate to than your us vs. them contrived right vs. left nonsense.
- I have not seen the recent movie. I was going to; but the person with whom I was going to see it, I lost contact with her. I've read the book on many occasions; and I own four or five copies. I've also seen the Robert Redford version and found it to be pretty good; though I didn't like it at first. I'll go book snob on ya and just say it didn't live up to the book. Over the years, I've come to like it much more all the same. At last check, you can find the movie on youtube.
- I find it funny how you love to claim that Fitzgerald was a liberal. Cos in your peabrain, anyone who's anyone who is creative is surely liberal. And thus, you didn't feel compelled to give one supporting example to support your bold claim.
- This article JSTOR An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie would support my initial thought; I quote, "Fitzgerald experienced a disenchantment with politics that extended from his boyhood until the early 1930's." F Scott wrote most of his well known works in that time period, including The Great Gatsby (1925).
- Of course, anyone that knows F Scott knows that excess and romanticism were both his greatness and ultimate undoing (He died of a heart attack, a poor man at age 43). As a liberal with a disassociation from reality and justification for waste, maybe you relate.....after all, I quote, "F. Scott Fitzgerald and his wife, Zelda, were guilty of many things. They were impetuous, they were known to drink too much, and they were prone to bouts of serious depression and self-destructive behavior, but no one could ever accuse them of frugality." Source: F. Scott Fitzgerald and the Age of Excess The Gilder Lehrman Institute of American History
- By the way, what did The Great Gatsby romanticize socially? Wall Street. Hardly a liberal convention. Though again, F Scott was ultimately apolitical, and he had no problem basically portraying a conservative like Tom Buchanon in a bad light and the main character Nick Carraway, who also had conservative characteristics, in a good light.
- During The Great Gatsby Period: "The United States had entered World War I a debtor nation and emerged as Europe’s largest creditor, to the tune of $12.5 billion." Hmmm....seems that FSF found some value in such conservative principles as he gloried in that society. F. Scott Fitzgerald and the Age of Excess The Gilder Lehrman Institute of American History
- I don't know how well you know FSF. But he was basically at his best when writing veiled autobiographical accounts. Some would argue that he could write nothing of worth otherwise. As he was from the Midwest (Minnesota), he ends The Great Gatsby celebrating a simpler (arguably more conservative) life: "Fitzgerald was a perfect chronicler of his time. He was both an avid participant in, and a stringent critic of, the culture of prosperity that marked the 1920s. In Gatsby, his alter ego, Nick Caraway, recalls wistfully the America of his youth. In Nick’s mind, the Middle West embodied a lost age—a simpler time before telephones and movie palaces and department stores. Setting out by train from Chicago, “when we pulled into our winter night and the real snow, our snow, began to stretch out beside us and twinkle against the windows, and the dim lights of small Wisconsin stations moved by, a sharp wild embrace came suddenly into the air.” This was “my Middle West,” he explains in the closing pages of the novel, “not the wheat or the prairies or the lost Swede towns, but the thrilling returning trains of my youth, and the street lamps and sleigh bells in the frosty dark and the shadows of holly wreaths thrown by lighted windows. I am part of that . . . I see now that this has been a story of the West, after all—Tom and Gatsby, Daisy and Jordan and I, were all Westerners, and perhaps we possessed some deficiency in common which made us subtly unadaptable to Eastern life.” F. Scott Fitzgerald and the Age of Excess The Gilder Lehrman Institute of American History
- Of course, there is a contention out there that Fitzgerald went further left in 1934. This contention is based upon obscure associations. The truth is that Fitzgerald was a writer first; and most likely, he kept such associations as he searched for interesting characters regardless of persuasions. FSF never otherwise entered into some sort of political arena.
- FSF is said to have become more against plutocracy as he became older. This means that he was against a wealth based social stratosphere. There are aspects of his lifestyle that would support this. But the reality is that he lost his wealth based upon drunkeness ("First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you.") and self apathy. He was by no means trying to be a martyr for the cause.
- FSF, the romantic plutocrat that he is would find someone like an Barry Obama or a Rupy Murdoch and expose them for the villains they are regardless of this left/right crap.
- What might FSF do with your hero Clintons? Well, "Show me a hero, and I'll write the tragedy." He might give you a dose of reality is what.
- And though some see Tom Buchanan as a neanderthal (conservative) cariacture, there is proof that FSF may have related to his so-called racism. HERE'S A LITTLE SOMETHING FOR YOU: FSF - "I believe at last in the white man's burden. We are as far above the modern Frenchman as he is above the Negro. Even in art!" And so on." race history evolution notes The racial worldview of F. Scott Fitzgerald
- Perhaps, you saw the (TGG) character Wolfsheim, who was arguably borne of anti-semiticism, and you thought well surely FSF was liberal?
- Or did you think that Fitzgerald was liberal because he was not high on negroes like Woodrow Wilson. After all, FSF once referred to African equality and negro rights as "jibberish." race history evolution notes The racial worldview of F. Scott Fitzgerald
- Again, FSF was much like an apolitical patriotic plutocrat who has racial worries as a 1937 letter like this to his daughter at boarding school will show: "I will bet two-thirds of the girls at Miss Walker’s School have at least one grandparent that peddled old leather in the slums of New York, Chicago, or London, and if I thought you were accepting the standards of the cosmopolitan rich, I would much rather have you in a Southern school, where scholastic standards are not so high and the word “nice” is not debased to such a ludicrous extent. I have seen the whole racket, and if there is any more disastrous road than that from Park Avenue to the Rue de la Paix and back again, I don’t know it.
They are homeless people, ashamed of being American, unable to master the culture of another country; ashamed, usually, of their husbands, wives, grandparents, and unable to bring up descendants of whom they could be proud, even if they had the nerve to bear them, ashamed of each other yet leaning on each other’s weakness, a menace to the social order in which they live—oh, why should I go on? You know how I feel about such things. If I come up and find you gone Park Avenue, you will have to explain me away as a Georgia cracker or a Chicago killer. God help Park Avenue." race history evolution notes The racial worldview of F. Scott Fitzgerald
- In this 1940 letter, FSF explains his basic annoyance with conservative and liberal fanatics: "I think it was you who misunderstood my meaning about the comrades. The important thing is this: they had best be treated, not as people holding a certain set of liberal or conservative opinions, but rather as you might treat a set of intensely fanatical Roman Catholics among whom you might find yourself. It is not that you should not disagree with them—the important thing is that you should not argue with them. The point is that Communism has become an intensely dogmatic and almost mystical religion, and whatever you say, they have ways of twisting it into shapes which put you in some lower category of mankind (“Fascist,” “Liberal,” “Trotskyist”), and disparage you both intellectually and personally in the process. They are amazingly well organized. The pith of my advice is: think what you want, the less said the better..." race history evolution notes The racial worldview of F. Scott Fitzgerald
In the words of Marshal Erickson, LAWYERED!
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Esmeralda
Diamond Member
If you read and understood any of his work, you would realize he was a liberal. You don't have to be terribly political, or political at all, to be a liberal. He lived his life as a liberal. His books and stories (apparently you've only read one of his books--and not understood it) reflect a completely different viewpoint than that of conservatives. You have very deeply misunderstood the novel The Great Gatsby, and you have either also not understood his other work or have not read it. The fact he did not like extremists of either ilk does not mean he was a conservative. You are for some unfathomable reason reading his work to suit your own bias. And, btw, the very last thing romanticized in Gatsby was Wall Street. That's a crucial point in the book. Nick, the narrator, works on Wall Street, and he hardly romanticizes it.
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ScienceRocks
Democrat all the way!
- Banned
- #95
Not only immoral, but insane to do so.
TheGreatGatsby
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #96
Nice blanket counter. Yea, I think you pretend that FSF is ever so liberal to suit your borish conventions. If FSF were here, he'd say to you that you are "intensely dogmatic" and note that you have created a "mystical religion" for yourself. And he would reject your mundane labels. He rises above such sad nomenclature.
And TGG is a nuansced reflection upon culture. It is not the liberal handbook that you want to pretend that it is; it is far from it.
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Esmeralda
Diamond Member
LMAO Oh, he would? You're going to put words in his mouth now? Overall, you are not familiar, obviously, with the bulk of his work and have misread Gatsby. I'm done here. This is too tiresome.
hipeter924
Not a zombie yet
If you invest in a weapons manufacturer does that make you 'immorial'? How about profiting from companies that use sweat jobs to make their products, or buying those products? Takes more than someone's viewpoint or indirect associations to make someone 'immoral'.
hipeter924
Not a zombie yet
Edit: Sweat shops.
C_Clayton_Jones
Diamond Member
"Is it immoral to vote for a politician who calls Islam a religion of peace?"
It's idiocy to not vote for a politician solely because he calls Islam a religion on peace.
Just as it's idiocy to judge an entire religion by the actions of a tiny minority.
It's idiocy to not vote for a politician solely because he calls Islam a religion on peace.
Just as it's idiocy to judge an entire religion by the actions of a tiny minority.
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