Dear GreenBean: Thanks for the effort and post to get the thread back on topic.
I still argue it is more a SPIRITUAL manifestation, as part of the process of resolving karma.
So I agree with you it is NOT solely genetic
(though the HIGH 50% match in orientation in twins is still interpreted as showing a TENDENCY even though the lack of 100% match means it is not solely genetic)
But do NOT agree it is necessarily a "mental illness or mental disorder,"
NOT UNLESS someone has been successfully treated as such and reports it as such.
The people I know who benefited from therapy and changed their behavior/relationships
refer more to SPIRITUAL issues and changes they went through, NOT MENTAL ILLNESS.
[MENTION=46353]GreenBean[/MENTION] if you can find such people who AGREE it is Mental Illness to them because this approach helped them "recover" then fine,
I accept whatever description people use for their own experiences.
Can you cite cases of people who DESCRIBE THEMSELVES and THEIR EXPERIENCES as "Mental Illness"?
And who benefited from this approach? If it works for people, fine. Can you find references to people saying they have a "Mental Illness",
and compare how common this description is in relation to the number of people who describe their experiences as a "spiritual change" or as either a "choice"/"not a choice"?
The APA lists no known causes for homosexual, thoughthere are some hypotheses. What do you think and why?
As with all threads this one seems to have wandered off in 15 different directions -
The OP :
Is homosexuality a choice, a mental illness or something simply inherent?
Point 1 - Is it inerited ?. ] Inherent = Genetic , Something One is Born With.
A.}No Valid argument nor
viable theory exists to suggest that Homosexuality is inherited or something one is born with -nearly all factual data to date indicates it is an acquired trait - although through no fault of the victims [Gays] - it is believed to be [In most cases] the result of Early Childhood Trauma. Study after Study by
unbiased and objective researchers adds weight to this argument continuoslly.
One 1992 study found that 37% of homosexual and bisexual men attending sexually transmitted disease clinics had been encouraged or forced to have sexual contact before age 19 with an older or more powerful partner. The median age of first contact was 10 years old. -
Multiple Aspects of Sexual Orientation: Prevalence and Sociodemographic Correlates in a New Zealand National Survey
Self-reported childhood and adolescent sexual abuse among adult homosexual bisexual men.
The Twin Studies :
Eight major studies of identical twins in Australia, the U.S., and Scandinavia during the last two decades all arrive at the same conclusion: gays were not born that way.
Identical twin studies prove homosexuality is not genetic
However Geneics is quite possibly
a minor factor in determining ones susceptibility to the Mental illness or Homosexuality.
So therefore - back to the OP -
YES - Homosexuality is a choice , not allways a consious choice - and certainly never an intelligent one - but a choice none the less.
Is it Inherited ? -NO - No scientific data exists that would supprot that argument
It is not INherited - allthough susceptibility to it may have minor genetic correlation.
Point 2.] Is it a Mental Illness .
Homosexuality is an unhealthy and self destructive mental condition- harmful not only to the homosexuals themselves, but society as a whole. The strongest argument the gay activists have for not considering Homosexuality to be an illness is the fact that the APA removed it from their DSM - list of Menatl Illnesses back in the 70s - but that move has been proven over and over and over again to be a political move with no scientific basis of fact , nor even plausible theory to support it's no longer being considered a Mental Ilness .
Even the Author of the Motion to have it de-listed Dr. Nicholas Cummings, has stated that the motion he wrote back in the 70s was a grave mistake - and that data since that time has indeed proven it is a Mental Illness that can and has been treated successfully.
The APA itself has prettyy close to zero credibility in the scientific community , although their political clout is tremendous and devestating to the careers of all who oppose them or their socio-fascist political agenda.
POINT 1 - Is it Inherited -
NO
POINT 2 - Is it a Mental Ilness -
YES
So long as nobody has any plausible intelligent facts to present to the contrary - I do believe we can consider this matter closed .
???? What? How can this be closed?
When the APA and other medical professionals, psychiatric and therapy practictioners,
and all the public, including the pro-gay and anti-gay communities ALL AGREE,
then MAYBE we can consider it closed.
We are not there yet. But because the controversy over "conversion therapy" pushed this issue into the public arena, we could push for a consensus using all the research and case studies out there.
I am guessing the stats will show diversity in people:
* some people report it is a "choice" to them, social lifestyle, or preference
* sometimes it is "how people are" - cannot change and not a choice
* some report having spiritual purposes to help others understand things more deeply
Not all people will give the same answers in describing themselves and relationships.
GreenBean: Why isn't it okay to have multiple answers for different people?
In some cases "math skills" or "musical skills" are inherently born as a natural gift.
In some cases they are acquired skills.
Are you okay with the concept of "spiritually" being born / incarnated in certain ways,
so that people have certain relationships in life with certain people?
Does that make you uncomfortable?
Why can't it be a spiritual process that decides these things,
who is born in what body, with which relationships or "soul-mates"
and what things change or don't change in life?
I've heard people complain that God/Religion is used to "explain" what people are afraid of or don't understand.
Is all this hangup about genetics vs. mental illness
some fear of addressing the "spiritual karma" that may be determining what's going on?
Or the fact "we don't know"?
Is that so disturbing that people must play with scientific explanations
to try to write this off as either "genetic" or a "mental disorder"
to file it in a box somewhere?
Why can't we be okay with people being different for different reasons?
Some may be natural or unnatural but not all are the same.
Anything wrong with that? Is that just too disturbing that
we HAVE to make it ALL THE SAME to file it in our brains under one blanket rule?
Thanks GreenBean but we need to be careful not to make the "equal and opposite" mistake as the people we criticize for going too far the other way, thinking it's true for everyone.
