Is homeschooling a good solution?

[Fair&Balanced]

".. the overall quality of education in the state has improved slightly over the past few years, according to a pair of new reports.
"Education Week’s 2016 Quality Counts report, which measures on overall educational quality, had Wisconsin’s score increasing from 78.9 in 2015 (a C+) to 79.8 (a B-). The state ranked 11th out of the 50 states and the District of Columbia, according to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.
"Wisconsin also tied for first with Minnesota among Midwestern states."

"While Laning’s statement seemed to suggest that Walker has left the schools all but penniless and unable to function normally, that’s hardly the case.
"Wisconsin ranked 22nd, and slightly above the national average, in per-pupil spending, according to the Education Week report. And that amount of money was seemingly enough to provide quality instruction for most students.
“On academic achievement, the state ranked above the nation in most areas,” the Journal Sentinel observed, based on the Education Week report.
"Wisconsin also improved its score and remained tied for third in the nation in the K-12 graduation rate, according to PoltiFact Wisconsin.
"The state has a graduation rate of 88.6 percent in 2013-14, which is apparently the last school year measured by federal officials. In 2012-13 that figure was 88.0 percent."

Ouch.

The truth stings lying progressive moonbats.

Report shows Wisconsin schools doing more with less | EAGnews.org

Is Donald Trump right about what Gov. Scott Walker did to Wisconsin schools?

Wisconsin is falling in terms of student to teacher ratios as the article above points out. That's due to budget cuts and teacher shortages.

And many of those budget shortcomings are due to teachers unions EVERY time a schools receives $5 in new funding there are the teachers right there, wanting $4 of that applied to teachers' salaries.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

".. the overall quality of education in the state has improved slightly over the past few years, according to a pair of new reports.
"Education Week’s 2016 Quality Counts report, which measures on overall educational quality, had Wisconsin’s score increasing from 78.9 in 2015 (a C+) to 79.8 (a B-). The state ranked 11th out of the 50 states and the District of Columbia, according to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.
"Wisconsin also tied for first with Minnesota among Midwestern states."

"While Laning’s statement seemed to suggest that Walker has left the schools all but penniless and unable to function normally, that’s hardly the case.
"Wisconsin ranked 22nd, and slightly above the national average, in per-pupil spending, according to the Education Week report. And that amount of money was seemingly enough to provide quality instruction for most students.
“On academic achievement, the state ranked above the nation in most areas,” the Journal Sentinel observed, based on the Education Week report.
"Wisconsin also improved its score and remained tied for third in the nation in the K-12 graduation rate, according to PoltiFact Wisconsin.
"The state has a graduation rate of 88.6 percent in 2013-14, which is apparently the last school year measured by federal officials. In 2012-13 that figure was 88.0 percent."

Ouch.

The truth stings lying progressive moonbats.

Report shows Wisconsin schools doing more with less | EAGnews.org

Wisconsin’s Act 10 revisited: Budget crisis averted, but teaching shortage looms

As I said, fewer teachers available as the teaching environment worsens. There's countless articles on this. Walker's policy drove away teachers and continues to do so.

"In many cases, districts have instituted salary freezes, changed health insurance plans, and created merit pay programs"

Oh, the horror.

Ok, if tomorrow your boss comes in and says that for forseeable future there will be no cost of living adjustments and your healthcare costs are going up, what would you do if you could easily move to a better paying position? Stay or leave? That's what's happening in Wisconsin right now. Any teacher who can leave for something better is leaving. Why stay if the working conditions have worsened?

It happens all the time... take a look at the oil service industry. Some of my clients are on round 3 of pay cuts. 40% - 50% layoffs. 401k match eliminations. Major modifications to health coverage. People who have options, move on. People who don't, don't.

It happens all the time in private industry. Welcome to reality.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Most teachers can't, or won't , leave the field. Either because they would be totally incompetent to be in another field, OR they accept the trade offs of salary versus lifestyle.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Teachers, especially high school teachers (but the same is true for elementary) have a 4 year college degree with math, science, and communication skills along with a work ethic that involves working 8-10 hours a day on the job and 4-8 hours off the job a night. I've personally known folks in nearly every industry that started as teachers and went on to do some high paying how power stuff when they found out how much teaching at the public school sucks. It's a fairly thankless job with a high burn out rate.

The only folks you see in teaching over the long term are the truly incompetent or the truly driven. And the truly driven can be burnt out if the conditions are bad.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

It happens all the time... take a look at the oil service industry. Some of my clients are on round 3 of pay cuts. 40% - 50% layoffs. 401k match eliminations. Major modifications to health coverage. People who have options, move on. People who don't, don't.

It happens all the time in private industry. Welcome to reality.

See, that we agree on. If you make life worse for teachers, the really good ones will move on. And after the conditions you've described how many of your top employees remain? How many of those that do remain are as productive as they were before? When you make the work environment bad you may see short term monetary gains due to salary cuts, etc, but long term you've destroyed your personnel base. Anyone who is quality leaves, anyone that remains is either incompetent or burnt out and less productive. I've seen this first hand myself.

 

[jillian]

".. the overall quality of education in the state has improved slightly over the past few years, according to a pair of new reports.
"Education Week’s 2016 Quality Counts report, which measures on overall educational quality, had Wisconsin’s score increasing from 78.9 in 2015 (a C+) to 79.8 (a B-). The state ranked 11th out of the 50 states and the District of Columbia, according to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.
"Wisconsin also tied for first with Minnesota among Midwestern states."

"While Laning’s statement seemed to suggest that Walker has left the schools all but penniless and unable to function normally, that’s hardly the case.
"Wisconsin ranked 22nd, and slightly above the national average, in per-pupil spending, according to the Education Week report. And that amount of money was seemingly enough to provide quality instruction for most students.
“On academic achievement, the state ranked above the nation in most areas,” the Journal Sentinel observed, based on the Education Week report.
"Wisconsin also improved its score and remained tied for third in the nation in the K-12 graduation rate, according to PoltiFact Wisconsin.
"The state has a graduation rate of 88.6 percent in 2013-14, which is apparently the last school year measured by federal officials. In 2012-13 that figure was 88.0 percent."

Ouch.

The truth stings lying progressive moonbats.

Report shows Wisconsin schools doing more with less | EAGnews.org

Is Donald Trump right about what Gov. Scott Walker did to Wisconsin schools?

Wisconsin is falling in terms of student to teacher ratios as the article above points out. That's due to budget cuts and teacher shortages.

And many of those budget shortcomings are due to teachers unions EVERY time a schools receives $5 in new funding there are the teachers right there, wanting $4 of that applied to teachers' salaries.

you want your kids taught but don't want to pay teachers?

there is limitless money for corporate welfare....

and unnecessary military equipment that even the military doesn't want ....

and agricultural subsidies....

and payment for Michele Bachmann's family farm

and her husband's pretend pray away the gay practice....

but "teachers unions" are the problem?

 

[Fair&Balanced]

Most teachers can't, or won't , leave the field. Either because they would be totally incompetent to be in another field, OR they accept the trade offs of salary versus lifestyle.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Teachers, especially high school teachers (but the same is true for elementary) have a 4 year college degree with math, science, and communication skills along with a work ethic that involves working 8-10 hours a day on the job and 4-8 hours off the job a night. I've personally known folks in nearly every industry that started as teachers and went on to do some high paying how power stuff when they found out how much teaching at the public school sucks. It's a fairly thankless job with a high burn out rate.

The only folks you see in teaching over the long term are the truly incompetent or the truly driven. And the truly driven can be burnt out if the conditions are bad.

Correct, and I want to be able to get rid of the incompetents, but teachers' unions prevent that. Case in point NYC "rubber rooms"
Google

 

[JoeNormal]

A general comment for everybody here who thinks that public education sucks: I'm becoming very thankful that my public education experience was good and that the taxes I pay to the schools in my area appear to be well spent. I truly pity the people who live in areas where the schools are as bad as they claim. Must be either low tax or inner city hell holes that I hope never to visit.

Spoken like a true minion of the government schools.

Where'd you get your shitty education, on a street corner?

 

[boilermaker55]

If you cannot see a correlation in the real world, then so be it.
Or are you just anti-teacher?
Lets just take a quick look at one example.

Life insurance industry under investigation
Audits of leading life insurance companies have uncovered a systematic, industry-wide practice of not paying significant numbers of beneficiaries
Life insurance industry under investigation

While there are sub standard workers in every en devour of business and life.
What happens with them? You know full well that even sub standard CEO's keep a job and are given
their large extraordinary golden parachute packages. Which cost the consumer billions.
So there is a big controversy about all of this that isn't so easily figure out.

The fix is not to point fingers at one particular aspect involved in a child's education. Look at all the factors and investigate then work with the primary problem.
It is to easy to find one bad instructor and blame the entire system.
But the right wingers find this as an easy way out.

Actually it's not the schools that are better, it's the parents that are better. In upscale neighborhoods the parents are educated professionals who are motivated for their children to learn. Most of what children learn is taught by their parents. Schools simply put a rubber stamp on it.

That's simply not true. There are plenty of good parents in the zip codes with struggling schools. The problems are many and not easily boiled down to bumper stickers. Schools are underfunded, racially segregated (Which still happens, see Lincoln parish in Louisiana that was forced to desegregate in 2015), or the cost of living is high enough that both parents work multiple jobs.

I think though we can both agree that having a failing public school is simply unacceptable. I think a lot of the rancor stems from the idea of how you fix it.

Oh, I'm not suggesting teachers are the only problem, merely that it's a large problem.

Think about how much better a school could be if they could get rid of all the bad students and the bad teachers. As a teacher , of course why should we pay you to be substandard at your job? And as a student, why should we be forced to spend resources educating you if you don't care about your education?

Why would I possibly care if a company hired and retained substandard employees, unless I was a shareholder or a customer in that company? Answer, I wouldn't.

In contrast to school teachers (and other government employees) with whom I AM both a customer, and a shareholder.

Do you have any other apples to horseshoes comparisons to make?

 

[hadit]

It happens all the time... take a look at the oil service industry. Some of my clients are on round 3 of pay cuts. 40% - 50% layoffs. 401k match eliminations. Major modifications to health coverage. People who have options, move on. People who don't, don't.

It happens all the time in private industry. Welcome to reality.

See, that we agree on. If you make life worse for teachers, the really good ones will move on. And after the conditions you've described how many of your top employees remain? How many of those that do remain are as productive as they were before? When you make the work environment bad you may see short term monetary gains due to salary cuts, etc, but long term you've destroyed your personnel base. Anyone who is quality leaves, anyone that remains is either incompetent or burnt out and less productive. I've seen this first hand myself.

The answer to that, of course, is to make the environment positive for well performing teachers and negative for poorly performing ones, something teachers' unions fight.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

It happens all the time... take a look at the oil service industry. Some of my clients are on round 3 of pay cuts. 40% - 50% layoffs. 401k match eliminations. Major modifications to health coverage. People who have options, move on. People who don't, don't.

It happens all the time in private industry. Welcome to reality.

See, that we agree on. If you make life worse for teachers, the really good ones will move on. And after the conditions you've described how many of your top employees remain? How many of those that do remain are as productive as they were before? When you make the work environment bad you may see short term monetary gains due to salary cuts, etc, but long term you've destroyed your personnel base. Anyone who is quality leaves, anyone that remains is either incompetent or burnt out and less productive. I've seen this first hand myself.

Well, the work environment was only made bad by $30 oil. When a company is bleeding red ink, they have no choice. Seems to me though that a lot of people think government is immune to the immutable laws of economics. They are not. Shit, here in Louisiana we are facing MAJOR budget cuts. Sadly though, our new "no new taxes" governor immediately went to tax increases. People are pissed.

 

[jillian]

A general comment for everybody here who thinks that public education sucks: I'm becoming very thankful that my public education experience was good and that the taxes I pay to the schools in my area appear to be well spent. I truly pity the people who live in areas where the schools are as bad as they claim. Must be either low tax or inner city hell holes that I hope never to visit.

Spoken like a true minion of the government schools.

Where'd you get your shitty education, on a street corner?

he's clearly never had an education at all...even on a street corner.

that's why he's so resentful of people who are educated

 

[Fair&Balanced]

".. the overall quality of education in the state has improved slightly over the past few years, according to a pair of new reports.
"Education Week’s 2016 Quality Counts report, which measures on overall educational quality, had Wisconsin’s score increasing from 78.9 in 2015 (a C+) to 79.8 (a B-). The state ranked 11th out of the 50 states and the District of Columbia, according to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.
"Wisconsin also tied for first with Minnesota among Midwestern states."

"While Laning’s statement seemed to suggest that Walker has left the schools all but penniless and unable to function normally, that’s hardly the case.
"Wisconsin ranked 22nd, and slightly above the national average, in per-pupil spending, according to the Education Week report. And that amount of money was seemingly enough to provide quality instruction for most students.
“On academic achievement, the state ranked above the nation in most areas,” the Journal Sentinel observed, based on the Education Week report.
"Wisconsin also improved its score and remained tied for third in the nation in the K-12 graduation rate, according to PoltiFact Wisconsin.
"The state has a graduation rate of 88.6 percent in 2013-14, which is apparently the last school year measured by federal officials. In 2012-13 that figure was 88.0 percent."

Ouch.

The truth stings lying progressive moonbats.

Report shows Wisconsin schools doing more with less | EAGnews.org

Is Donald Trump right about what Gov. Scott Walker did to Wisconsin schools?

Wisconsin is falling in terms of student to teacher ratios as the article above points out. That's due to budget cuts and teacher shortages.

And many of those budget shortcomings are due to teachers unions EVERY time a schools receives $5 in new funding there are the teachers right there, wanting $4 of that applied to teachers' salaries.

you want your kids taught but don't want to pay teachers?

there is limitless money for corporate welfare....

and unnecessary military equipment that even the military doesn't want ....

and agricultural subsidies....

and payment for Michele Bachmann's family farm

and her husband's pretend pray away the gay practice....

but "teachers unions" are the problem?

A) where did I say I don't want to pay teachers?

B) Corporate welfare, LOL give me a break

C) I believe there is much waste in defense spending, that can and should be cut. Hell, I'd do away with the Air Force in it's entirety if it were up to me

D) I'm against paying farm subsidies its stupid.

E) See D

Oh, I guess you just liberally jumped to a conclusion not supported by facts there eh?

 

[jillian]

It happens all the time... take a look at the oil service industry. Some of my clients are on round 3 of pay cuts. 40% - 50% layoffs. 401k match eliminations. Major modifications to health coverage. People who have options, move on. People who don't, don't.

It happens all the time in private industry. Welcome to reality.

See, that we agree on. If you make life worse for teachers, the really good ones will move on. And after the conditions you've described how many of your top employees remain? How many of those that do remain are as productive as they were before? When you make the work environment bad you may see short term monetary gains due to salary cuts, etc, but long term you've destroyed your personnel base. Anyone who is quality leaves, anyone that remains is either incompetent or burnt out and less productive. I've seen this first hand myself.

The answer to that, of course, is to make the environment positive for well performing teachers and negative for poorly performing ones, something teachers' unions fight.

what is "well performing"

what is "poorly performing".

not all classes are equal.

if you get a class of honors students, their numbers aren't going to change....thus no positive performance eval.

if you get a special ed class their numbers aren't going to move much off the dial....

so no positive performance eval.

 

[jillian]

".. the overall quality of education in the state has improved slightly over the past few years, according to a pair of new reports.
"Education Week’s 2016 Quality Counts report, which measures on overall educational quality, had Wisconsin’s score increasing from 78.9 in 2015 (a C+) to 79.8 (a B-). The state ranked 11th out of the 50 states and the District of Columbia, according to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.
"Wisconsin also tied for first with Minnesota among Midwestern states."

"While Laning’s statement seemed to suggest that Walker has left the schools all but penniless and unable to function normally, that’s hardly the case.
"Wisconsin ranked 22nd, and slightly above the national average, in per-pupil spending, according to the Education Week report. And that amount of money was seemingly enough to provide quality instruction for most students.
“On academic achievement, the state ranked above the nation in most areas,” the Journal Sentinel observed, based on the Education Week report.
"Wisconsin also improved its score and remained tied for third in the nation in the K-12 graduation rate, according to PoltiFact Wisconsin.
"The state has a graduation rate of 88.6 percent in 2013-14, which is apparently the last school year measured by federal officials. In 2012-13 that figure was 88.0 percent."

Ouch.

The truth stings lying progressive moonbats.

Report shows Wisconsin schools doing more with less | EAGnews.org

Is Donald Trump right about what Gov. Scott Walker did to Wisconsin schools?

Wisconsin is falling in terms of student to teacher ratios as the article above points out. That's due to budget cuts and teacher shortages.

And many of those budget shortcomings are due to teachers unions EVERY time a schools receives $5 in new funding there are the teachers right there, wanting $4 of that applied to teachers' salaries.

you want your kids taught but don't want to pay teachers?

there is limitless money for corporate welfare....

and unnecessary military equipment that even the military doesn't want ....

and agricultural subsidies....

and payment for Michele Bachmann's family farm

and her husband's pretend pray away the gay practice....

but "teachers unions" are the problem?

A) where did I say I don't want to pay teachers?

B) Corporate welfare, LOL give me a break

C) I believe there is much waste in defense spending, that can and should be cut. Hell, I'd do away with the Air Force in it's entirety if it were up to me

D) I'm against paying farmers to not grow a crop, its stupid.

E) See D

Oh, I guess you just liberally jumped to a conclusion not supported by facts there eh?

no.....if you jump to criticizing teachers unions, you clearly want to divest teachers of their bargaining power and want to screw them.

hence my comment....by which I stand.

 

[JoeNormal]

A general comment for everybody here who thinks that public education sucks: I'm becoming very thankful that my public education experience was good and that the taxes I pay to the schools in my area appear to be well spent. I truly pity the people who live in areas where the schools are as bad as they claim. Must be either low tax or inner city hell holes that I hope never to visit.

Spoken like a true minion of the government schools.

Where'd you get your shitty education, on a street corner?

he's clearly never had an education at all...even on a street corner.

that's why he's so resentful of people who are educated

Bripat seems to fit the profile of well paid ignoramus. The most loathsome genus of the ignoramus family.

 

[bripat9643]

A general comment for everybody here who thinks that public education sucks: I'm becoming very thankful that my public education experience was good and that the taxes I pay to the schools in my area appear to be well spent. I truly pity the people who live in areas where the schools are as bad as they claim. Must be either low tax or inner city hell holes that I hope never to visit.

Spoken like a true minion of the government schools.

Where'd you get your shitty education, on a street corner?

You don't know what the word "minion" means, do you, Joe?

 

[jillian]

A general comment for everybody here who thinks that public education sucks: I'm becoming very thankful that my public education experience was good and that the taxes I pay to the schools in my area appear to be well spent. I truly pity the people who live in areas where the schools are as bad as they claim. Must be either low tax or inner city hell holes that I hope never to visit.

Spoken like a true minion of the government schools.

Where'd you get your shitty education, on a street corner?

he's clearly never had an education at all...even on a street corner.

that's why he's so resentful of people who are educated

Bripat seems to fit the profile of well paid ignoramus. The most loathsome genus of the ignoramus family.

I don't think he's well paid.

 

[hadit]

It happens all the time... take a look at the oil service industry. Some of my clients are on round 3 of pay cuts. 40% - 50% layoffs. 401k match eliminations. Major modifications to health coverage. People who have options, move on. People who don't, don't.

It happens all the time in private industry. Welcome to reality.

See, that we agree on. If you make life worse for teachers, the really good ones will move on. And after the conditions you've described how many of your top employees remain? How many of those that do remain are as productive as they were before? When you make the work environment bad you may see short term monetary gains due to salary cuts, etc, but long term you've destroyed your personnel base. Anyone who is quality leaves, anyone that remains is either incompetent or burnt out and less productive. I've seen this first hand myself.

The answer to that, of course, is to make the environment positive for well performing teachers and negative for poorly performing ones, something teachers' unions fight.

what is "well performing"

what is "poorly performing".

not all classes are equal.

if you get a class of honors students, their numbers aren't going to change....thus no positive performance eval.

if you get a special ed class their numbers aren't going to move much off the dial....

so no positive performance eval.

There are some criteria by which a teacher can be evaluated. Clearly, class composition is a factor.

 

[jillian]

It happens all the time... take a look at the oil service industry. Some of my clients are on round 3 of pay cuts. 40% - 50% layoffs. 401k match eliminations. Major modifications to health coverage. People who have options, move on. People who don't, don't.

It happens all the time in private industry. Welcome to reality.

See, that we agree on. If you make life worse for teachers, the really good ones will move on. And after the conditions you've described how many of your top employees remain? How many of those that do remain are as productive as they were before? When you make the work environment bad you may see short term monetary gains due to salary cuts, etc, but long term you've destroyed your personnel base. Anyone who is quality leaves, anyone that remains is either incompetent or burnt out and less productive. I've seen this first hand myself.

The answer to that, of course, is to make the environment positive for well performing teachers and negative for poorly performing ones, something teachers' unions fight.

what is "well performing"

what is "poorly performing".

not all classes are equal.

if you get a class of honors students, their numbers aren't going to change....thus no positive performance eval.

if you get a special ed class their numbers aren't going to move much off the dial....

so no positive performance eval.

There are some criteria by which a teacher can be evaluated. Clearly, class composition is a factor.

what criteria?

 

[Fair&Balanced]

".. the overall quality of education in the state has improved slightly over the past few years, according to a pair of new reports.
"Education Week’s 2016 Quality Counts report, which measures on overall educational quality, had Wisconsin’s score increasing from 78.9 in 2015 (a C+) to 79.8 (a B-). The state ranked 11th out of the 50 states and the District of Columbia, according to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.
"Wisconsin also tied for first with Minnesota among Midwestern states."

"While Laning’s statement seemed to suggest that Walker has left the schools all but penniless and unable to function normally, that’s hardly the case.
"Wisconsin ranked 22nd, and slightly above the national average, in per-pupil spending, according to the Education Week report. And that amount of money was seemingly enough to provide quality instruction for most students.
“On academic achievement, the state ranked above the nation in most areas,” the Journal Sentinel observed, based on the Education Week report.
"Wisconsin also improved its score and remained tied for third in the nation in the K-12 graduation rate, according to PoltiFact Wisconsin.
"The state has a graduation rate of 88.6 percent in 2013-14, which is apparently the last school year measured by federal officials. In 2012-13 that figure was 88.0 percent."

Ouch.

The truth stings lying progressive moonbats.

Report shows Wisconsin schools doing more with less | EAGnews.org

Is Donald Trump right about what Gov. Scott Walker did to Wisconsin schools?

Wisconsin is falling in terms of student to teacher ratios as the article above points out. That's due to budget cuts and teacher shortages.

And many of those budget shortcomings are due to teachers unions EVERY time a schools receives $5 in new funding there are the teachers right there, wanting $4 of that applied to teachers' salaries.

you want your kids taught but don't want to pay teachers?

there is limitless money for corporate welfare....

and unnecessary military equipment that even the military doesn't want ....

and agricultural subsidies....

and payment for Michele Bachmann's family farm

and her husband's pretend pray away the gay practice....

but "teachers unions" are the problem?

A) where did I say I don't want to pay teachers?

B) Corporate welfare, LOL give me a break

C) I believe there is much waste in defense spending, that can and should be cut. Hell, I'd do away with the Air Force in it's entirety if it were up to me

D) I'm against paying farmers to not grow a crop, its stupid.

E) See D

Oh, I guess you just liberally jumped to a conclusion not supported by facts there eh?

no.....if you jump to criticizing teachers unions, you clearly want to divest teachers of their bargaining power and want to screw them.

hence my comment....by which I stand.

Teachers don't want to bargain, they want to bludgeon. Have you EVER , for example, seen a teacher's union say " well maybe we should make it easier to fire incompetent teachers?" I'll answer for you, no you have not.

And yes, you certainly tried to pigeonhole me, and failed and are incapable of admitting you were wrong. Which is completely typical of an ideologue.