Is homeschooling a good solution?

[whitehall]

Homeschooling used to be the norm and public school was the "solution". Today parents are too busy making a living outside the home so kids become the victims of the gigantic federal bureaucracy known as public schools. More often than not they learn to put a condom on a cucumber and they can't name a single Founding Father. Most of them never read a book in their young lives.

 

[koshergrl]

How were they with kids? Oddballs I bet.

That's pretty much a homeschool myth.

It's no more BS than those claiming that in general home schooled kids to better than public educated children do. BOTH rely on slanted studies and anecdotal evidence to support the writer's preformed opinion

All I know is, the homeschooled students I have known were perhaps better mannered than the average kid but perfectly able to interact with peers. They were much better educated than their peers in public school. One-on-one instruction usually aces instruction in a large group. Most of these kids have siblings, neighborhood friends, and many are active in sports. At least none of the ones I've known were strange or socially lacking. I know that is anecdotal, but I am guessing your aversion to homeschooling is also based on one or two kids you have encountered somewhere along the way.

Also speaking anecdotally, the parents that do it right (Organized fieldtrips, sports, organized play dates/outings) raise children who are totally normal socially. They also raise children who are outstanding academically.

The parents who do it terribly usually give up and dump their kids back into public schools that by law have to take them in. That makes it hard to realistically track and compare test scores as failed homeschooled children end up in the public school testing pool. As I said though, if you can do it and do it well, you should. If you can't, don't. I work with my kids in the summer with a pretty rigid schedule on math, reading and writing. The personal cost to me is that it tanks my productivity in the summer to do it and the kids hate it. There's no way I could keep that up in the school year and work full time. Moral of the story: It wouldn't work for me full year.

I wish we had some way to track how homeschooled children are doing, once they've been taken out of public school, but there is no money in the budget or time in the day for school personnel to track and follow these kids. I've seen the 'dark side' of homeschooling, as well, when parents pulled kids out of school after the school reported abuse or neglect, or because the kid didn't feel like going and the parents didn't feel like arguing about it, or because the parent couldn't get out of bed to get the kid on the bus in the morning. I've also met parents so ignorant they can barely write their name, claiming they are "homeschooling." That can't be stopped, for some reason, and it is unfair to our kids. I'm quite sure that back in the 80's, there were rules that you needed a bachelor's degree in order to homeschool. That was overkill, but no follow up whatsoever is really a problem for some kids who aren't getting any education at all.

Lol. I think the percentage of public school kids who aren't getting an education is a LOT higher.

 

[hadit]

I think part of the problem is , beyond the fact that some people see ALL issues in terms of political ideology, that a lot of people when they think of homeschooling they think of the way it used to be A somewhat uneducated parent who was just against the government in any form possible kept their child at home and wasn't even equipped to, or cared to actually educate their child, the homeschooling was only a protest against government

But today homeschooling parents have so many options. First of all, there is of course the option of tutors, but even more so, there is this invention called the internet. Any parent can instantly be equipped to teach their child math, reading, pyshics, chemistry, anything really. And most people live within a reasonable distant of organizations which provide sports music, art, and other social interaction opportunities for home school kids. So, unless a parent is just LAZY and disinterested in their child's education, the opportunities are there.


And obviously children in public school who have interested and involved parents are going to do better than those who do not. So, it's about the parent's level of involvement, not whether the child is at home or at public school

You can also use a totally online, fully accredited curriculum that provides teachers who interact with the students, correct work, etc. Anything a college student can learn from an online school a youngster can also learn. The parents don't have to be well educated themselves.

 

[hadit]

How were they with kids? Oddballs I bet.

That's pretty much a homeschool myth.

It's no more BS than those claiming that in general home schooled kids to better than public educated children do. BOTH rely on slanted studies and anecdotal evidence to support the writer's preformed opinion

All I know is, the homeschooled students I have known were perhaps better mannered than the average kid but perfectly able to interact with peers. They were much better educated than their peers in public school. One-on-one instruction usually aces instruction in a large group. Most of these kids have siblings, neighborhood friends, and many are active in sports. At least none of the ones I've known were strange or socially lacking. I know that is anecdotal, but I am guessing your aversion to homeschooling is also based on one or two kids you have encountered somewhere along the way.

Also speaking anecdotally, the parents that do it right (Organized fieldtrips, sports, organized play dates/outings) raise children who are totally normal socially. They also raise children who are outstanding academically.

The parents who do it terribly usually give up and dump their kids back into public schools that by law have to take them in. That makes it hard to realistically track and compare test scores as failed homeschooled children end up in the public school testing pool. As I said though, if you can do it and do it well, you should. If you can't, don't. I work with my kids in the summer with a pretty rigid schedule on math, reading and writing. The personal cost to me is that it tanks my productivity in the summer to do it and the kids hate it. There's no way I could keep that up in the school year and work full time. Moral of the story: It wouldn't work for me full year.

I wish we had some way to track how homeschooled children are doing, once they've been taken out of public school, but there is no money in the budget or time in the day for school personnel to track and follow these kids. I've seen the 'dark side' of homeschooling, as well, when parents pulled kids out of school after the school reported abuse or neglect, or because the kid didn't feel like going and the parents didn't feel like arguing about it, or because the parent couldn't get out of bed to get the kid on the bus in the morning. I've also met parents so ignorant they can barely write their name, claiming they are "homeschooling." That can't be stopped, for some reason, and it is unfair to our kids. I'm quite sure that back in the 80's, there were rules that you needed a bachelor's degree in order to homeschool. That was overkill, but no follow up whatsoever is really a problem for some kids who aren't getting any education at all.

Home schooled kids can also take the same standardized tests the government schooled kids do to ensure they're on track. There simply is no reason motivated parents cannot give their children a quality education at home.

 

[OldLady]

That's pretty much a homeschool myth.

It's no more BS than those claiming that in general home schooled kids to better than public educated children do. BOTH rely on slanted studies and anecdotal evidence to support the writer's preformed opinion

All I know is, the homeschooled students I have known were perhaps better mannered than the average kid but perfectly able to interact with peers. They were much better educated than their peers in public school. One-on-one instruction usually aces instruction in a large group. Most of these kids have siblings, neighborhood friends, and many are active in sports. At least none of the ones I've known were strange or socially lacking. I know that is anecdotal, but I am guessing your aversion to homeschooling is also based on one or two kids you have encountered somewhere along the way.

Also speaking anecdotally, the parents that do it right (Organized fieldtrips, sports, organized play dates/outings) raise children who are totally normal socially. They also raise children who are outstanding academically.

The parents who do it terribly usually give up and dump their kids back into public schools that by law have to take them in. That makes it hard to realistically track and compare test scores as failed homeschooled children end up in the public school testing pool. As I said though, if you can do it and do it well, you should. If you can't, don't. I work with my kids in the summer with a pretty rigid schedule on math, reading and writing. The personal cost to me is that it tanks my productivity in the summer to do it and the kids hate it. There's no way I could keep that up in the school year and work full time. Moral of the story: It wouldn't work for me full year.

I wish we had some way to track how homeschooled children are doing, once they've been taken out of public school, but there is no money in the budget or time in the day for school personnel to track and follow these kids. I've seen the 'dark side' of homeschooling, as well, when parents pulled kids out of school after the school reported abuse or neglect, or because the kid didn't feel like going and the parents didn't feel like arguing about it, or because the parent couldn't get out of bed to get the kid on the bus in the morning. I've also met parents so ignorant they can barely write their name, claiming they are "homeschooling." That can't be stopped, for some reason, and it is unfair to our kids. I'm quite sure that back in the 80's, there were rules that you needed a bachelor's degree in order to homeschool. That was overkill, but no follow up whatsoever is really a problem for some kids who aren't getting any education at all.

Home schooled kids can also take the same standardized tests the government schooled kids do to ensure they're on track. There simply is no reason motivated parents cannot give their children a quality education at home.

Of course. I was worrying about the ones who don't have motivated parents.

 

[hadit]

It's no more BS than those claiming that in general home schooled kids to better than public educated children do. BOTH rely on slanted studies and anecdotal evidence to support the writer's preformed opinion

All I know is, the homeschooled students I have known were perhaps better mannered than the average kid but perfectly able to interact with peers. They were much better educated than their peers in public school. One-on-one instruction usually aces instruction in a large group. Most of these kids have siblings, neighborhood friends, and many are active in sports. At least none of the ones I've known were strange or socially lacking. I know that is anecdotal, but I am guessing your aversion to homeschooling is also based on one or two kids you have encountered somewhere along the way.

Also speaking anecdotally, the parents that do it right (Organized fieldtrips, sports, organized play dates/outings) raise children who are totally normal socially. They also raise children who are outstanding academically.

The parents who do it terribly usually give up and dump their kids back into public schools that by law have to take them in. That makes it hard to realistically track and compare test scores as failed homeschooled children end up in the public school testing pool. As I said though, if you can do it and do it well, you should. If you can't, don't. I work with my kids in the summer with a pretty rigid schedule on math, reading and writing. The personal cost to me is that it tanks my productivity in the summer to do it and the kids hate it. There's no way I could keep that up in the school year and work full time. Moral of the story: It wouldn't work for me full year.

I wish we had some way to track how homeschooled children are doing, once they've been taken out of public school, but there is no money in the budget or time in the day for school personnel to track and follow these kids. I've seen the 'dark side' of homeschooling, as well, when parents pulled kids out of school after the school reported abuse or neglect, or because the kid didn't feel like going and the parents didn't feel like arguing about it, or because the parent couldn't get out of bed to get the kid on the bus in the morning. I've also met parents so ignorant they can barely write their name, claiming they are "homeschooling." That can't be stopped, for some reason, and it is unfair to our kids. I'm quite sure that back in the 80's, there were rules that you needed a bachelor's degree in order to homeschool. That was overkill, but no follow up whatsoever is really a problem for some kids who aren't getting any education at all.

Home schooled kids can also take the same standardized tests the government schooled kids do to ensure they're on track. There simply is no reason motivated parents cannot give their children a quality education at home.

Of course. I was worrying about the ones who don't have motivated parents.

They are at a big disadvantage, no matter where they go to school.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

Actually, there's a lot of studies looking at the distance people have to travel to get to grocery stores in rural or very poor urban areas. It's shockingly bad. I can vouch for this as whenever I go visit family in Southern Illinois and/or Southern Indiana the distance to a grocery store is pretty rough.

That's one of the challenges you have to live with if you want to be a farmer. Schooling is another.

That's only acceptable if you're fine with creating a permanent serf class. Kids should have access to quality food and quality education regardless of location in the USA. Accepting anything less is accepting that America doesn't need to be exceptional and that "good enough" will do.

Public schools aren't *quality*.

That's a generalization. There are some good public schools.

And I'm sure there were some good Nazis, too. Who cares? It's idiotic to let the government educate your children. They turn out like Care and guano.

Stop with the generalities, they don't help anyone. OF COURSE a person can achieve a good education at a public school.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

It's no more BS than those claiming that in general home schooled kids to better than public educated children do. BOTH rely on slanted studies and anecdotal evidence to support the writer's preformed opinion

All I know is, the homeschooled students I have known were perhaps better mannered than the average kid but perfectly able to interact with peers. They were much better educated than their peers in public school. One-on-one instruction usually aces instruction in a large group. Most of these kids have siblings, neighborhood friends, and many are active in sports. At least none of the ones I've known were strange or socially lacking. I know that is anecdotal, but I am guessing your aversion to homeschooling is also based on one or two kids you have encountered somewhere along the way.

Also speaking anecdotally, the parents that do it right (Organized fieldtrips, sports, organized play dates/outings) raise children who are totally normal socially. They also raise children who are outstanding academically.

The parents who do it terribly usually give up and dump their kids back into public schools that by law have to take them in. That makes it hard to realistically track and compare test scores as failed homeschooled children end up in the public school testing pool. As I said though, if you can do it and do it well, you should. If you can't, don't. I work with my kids in the summer with a pretty rigid schedule on math, reading and writing. The personal cost to me is that it tanks my productivity in the summer to do it and the kids hate it. There's no way I could keep that up in the school year and work full time. Moral of the story: It wouldn't work for me full year.

I wish we had some way to track how homeschooled children are doing, once they've been taken out of public school, but there is no money in the budget or time in the day for school personnel to track and follow these kids. I've seen the 'dark side' of homeschooling, as well, when parents pulled kids out of school after the school reported abuse or neglect, or because the kid didn't feel like going and the parents didn't feel like arguing about it, or because the parent couldn't get out of bed to get the kid on the bus in the morning. I've also met parents so ignorant they can barely write their name, claiming they are "homeschooling." That can't be stopped, for some reason, and it is unfair to our kids. I'm quite sure that back in the 80's, there were rules that you needed a bachelor's degree in order to homeschool. That was overkill, but no follow up whatsoever is really a problem for some kids who aren't getting any education at all.

Home schooled kids can also take the same standardized tests the government schooled kids do to ensure they're on track. There simply is no reason motivated parents cannot give their children a quality education at home.

Of course. I was worrying about the ones who don't have motivated parents.

Generally speaking unmotivated parents are more likely to dump their kids in public school and not contribute anything to their education, rather than homeschooling them. wouldn't you agree?

In fact, that is EXACTLY why home schooled kids , on average, do better on standardized tests than public education students do. Because the lower tier of students, the ones who don't give a crap cuz their parents don't give a crap are in those public schools, not being homeschooled, and yet their test results are lumped in with the rest.

The fix for our public education system is so simple. A two tiered system. Trade bound, and college bound. And no mommy doesn't get to tell the school which track you're going in. Your grades and test results do that.

That further lowers the costs of college because all the kids who proved through their own achievements that they belong in the trade bound school are INELIGIBLE for Pell Grants and student loans to college.

Yes, I know to many that sounds harsh, but we are well into the point where we need to stop giving everything to everyone and where we need to start making some harsh choices.

 

[hadit]

All I know is, the homeschooled students I have known were perhaps better mannered than the average kid but perfectly able to interact with peers. They were much better educated than their peers in public school. One-on-one instruction usually aces instruction in a large group. Most of these kids have siblings, neighborhood friends, and many are active in sports. At least none of the ones I've known were strange or socially lacking. I know that is anecdotal, but I am guessing your aversion to homeschooling is also based on one or two kids you have encountered somewhere along the way.

Also speaking anecdotally, the parents that do it right (Organized fieldtrips, sports, organized play dates/outings) raise children who are totally normal socially. They also raise children who are outstanding academically.

The parents who do it terribly usually give up and dump their kids back into public schools that by law have to take them in. That makes it hard to realistically track and compare test scores as failed homeschooled children end up in the public school testing pool. As I said though, if you can do it and do it well, you should. If you can't, don't. I work with my kids in the summer with a pretty rigid schedule on math, reading and writing. The personal cost to me is that it tanks my productivity in the summer to do it and the kids hate it. There's no way I could keep that up in the school year and work full time. Moral of the story: It wouldn't work for me full year.

I wish we had some way to track how homeschooled children are doing, once they've been taken out of public school, but there is no money in the budget or time in the day for school personnel to track and follow these kids. I've seen the 'dark side' of homeschooling, as well, when parents pulled kids out of school after the school reported abuse or neglect, or because the kid didn't feel like going and the parents didn't feel like arguing about it, or because the parent couldn't get out of bed to get the kid on the bus in the morning. I've also met parents so ignorant they can barely write their name, claiming they are "homeschooling." That can't be stopped, for some reason, and it is unfair to our kids. I'm quite sure that back in the 80's, there were rules that you needed a bachelor's degree in order to homeschool. That was overkill, but no follow up whatsoever is really a problem for some kids who aren't getting any education at all.

Home schooled kids can also take the same standardized tests the government schooled kids do to ensure they're on track. There simply is no reason motivated parents cannot give their children a quality education at home.

Of course. I was worrying about the ones who don't have motivated parents.

Generally speaking unmotivated parents are more likely to dump their kids in public school and not contribute anything to their education, rather than homeschooling them. wouldn't you agree?

In fact, that is EXACTLY why home schooled kids , on average, do better on standardized tests than public education students do. Because the lower tier of students, the ones who don't give a crap cuz their parents don't give a crap are in those public schools, not being homeschooled, and yet their test results are lumped in with the rest.

The fix for our public education system is so simple. A two tiered system. Trade bound, and college bound. And no mommy doesn't get to tell the school which track you're going in. Your grades and test results do that.

That further lowers the costs of college because all the kids who proved through their own achievements that they belong in the trade bound school are INELIGIBLE for Pell Grants and student loans to college.

Yes, I know to many that sounds harsh, but we are well into the point where we need to stop giving everything to everyone and where we need to start making some harsh choices.

It's really not even that harsh because the skilled trades could benefit. If anyone should doubt that learning a skilled trade can lead to a very rewarding career, try calling a plumber or an electrician to fix a problem on a weekend. Sure, you get dirty and tired, but you can make a decent living and it's honest work.

 

[Unkotare]

....

The fix for our public education system is so simple. A two tiered system. Trade bound, and college bound. And no mommy doesn't get to tell the school which track you're going in. Your grades and test results do that.

That further lowers the costs of college because all the kids who proved through their own achievements that they belong in the trade bound school are INELIGIBLE for Pell Grants and student loans to college......

You seem to want lawyers to make more money.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

Also speaking anecdotally, the parents that do it right (Organized fieldtrips, sports, organized play dates/outings) raise children who are totally normal socially. They also raise children who are outstanding academically.

The parents who do it terribly usually give up and dump their kids back into public schools that by law have to take them in. That makes it hard to realistically track and compare test scores as failed homeschooled children end up in the public school testing pool. As I said though, if you can do it and do it well, you should. If you can't, don't. I work with my kids in the summer with a pretty rigid schedule on math, reading and writing. The personal cost to me is that it tanks my productivity in the summer to do it and the kids hate it. There's no way I could keep that up in the school year and work full time. Moral of the story: It wouldn't work for me full year.

I wish we had some way to track how homeschooled children are doing, once they've been taken out of public school, but there is no money in the budget or time in the day for school personnel to track and follow these kids. I've seen the 'dark side' of homeschooling, as well, when parents pulled kids out of school after the school reported abuse or neglect, or because the kid didn't feel like going and the parents didn't feel like arguing about it, or because the parent couldn't get out of bed to get the kid on the bus in the morning. I've also met parents so ignorant they can barely write their name, claiming they are "homeschooling." That can't be stopped, for some reason, and it is unfair to our kids. I'm quite sure that back in the 80's, there were rules that you needed a bachelor's degree in order to homeschool. That was overkill, but no follow up whatsoever is really a problem for some kids who aren't getting any education at all.

Home schooled kids can also take the same standardized tests the government schooled kids do to ensure they're on track. There simply is no reason motivated parents cannot give their children a quality education at home.

Of course. I was worrying about the ones who don't have motivated parents.

Generally speaking unmotivated parents are more likely to dump their kids in public school and not contribute anything to their education, rather than homeschooling them. wouldn't you agree?

In fact, that is EXACTLY why home schooled kids , on average, do better on standardized tests than public education students do. Because the lower tier of students, the ones who don't give a crap cuz their parents don't give a crap are in those public schools, not being homeschooled, and yet their test results are lumped in with the rest.

The fix for our public education system is so simple. A two tiered system. Trade bound, and college bound. And no mommy doesn't get to tell the school which track you're going in. Your grades and test results do that.

That further lowers the costs of college because all the kids who proved through their own achievements that they belong in the trade bound school are INELIGIBLE for Pell Grants and student loans to college.

Yes, I know to many that sounds harsh, but we are well into the point where we need to stop giving everything to everyone and where we need to start making some harsh choices.

It's really not even that harsh because the skilled trades could benefit. If anyone should doubt that learning a skilled trade can lead to a very rewarding career, try calling a plumber or an electrician to fix a problem on a weekend. Sure, you get dirty and tired, but you can make a decent living and it's honest work.

I 100% agree, I don't degrade ANYONE for the job they do. You absolutely should be able to make an honest living doing these types of jobs (which opens up the argument about wages paid in this country, in which I happen to believe blue collar jobs don't pay enough ) and reject the idea that everyone has to attend college to be considered a success. If every person in America had a PhD, we'd have PhD's working at McDonalds, that's just a fact.

 

[JoeNormal]

No, they're not on a par. All of the scary-smart people I've ever known were publicly schooled.

Anecdotal evidence does not inform the totality of the equation.

Pull up at stat on 'scary-smart' then and see which system produces the most.

Scary smart is not determined by education. You do know that, right? Also, since you seem interested in statistics, are you accounting for the sheer bulk of government schooled students vs the relatively miniscule number of home schooled? If you want to talk simple numbers and not percentages, government schools produce far, far more drug attacks, gang members, and teen age mothers than do home schools.

I did a little searching today and found that currently home schooled kids tend to be from more affluent homes. That alone accounts for much of the supposed advantage that home schooled kids supposedly exhibit. How's that for a stat? Compare apples to apples.

So, you've established that parents with the means and inclination to school their kids at home can provide them with an excellent education. I fail to see the downside.

If they have the wherewithal to do it, go for it I guess. My experience still tells me that a good school can provide EXPERTS in all fields that you wouldn't get in a home environment. One of my son's friends is in something close to a home school environment. It's a small, one teacher school with (variably) 4 to 8 students. She did very well in the lower grades but now is falling behind in math because there's no one to properly explain the concepts and she's never had any degree of science education.

I also forgot to get back to you on what makes for scary-smart. What I realize is that intelligence is independent of education but an intelligent person without a broad educational base tends to be a quick study whereas the scary-smart uses a broad range of education to create new thoughts that go in all directions.

 

[JoeNormal]

A general comment for everybody here who thinks that public education sucks: I'm becoming very thankful that my public education experience was good and that the taxes I pay to the schools in my area appear to be well spent. I truly pity the people who live in areas where the schools are as bad as they claim. Must be either low tax or inner city hell holes that I hope never to visit.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Actually, there's a lot of studies looking at the distance people have to travel to get to grocery stores in rural or very poor urban areas. It's shockingly bad. I can vouch for this as whenever I go visit family in Southern Illinois and/or Southern Indiana the distance to a grocery store is pretty rough.

That's one of the challenges you have to live with if you want to be a farmer. Schooling is another.

That's only acceptable if you're fine with creating a permanent serf class. Kids should have access to quality food and quality education regardless of location in the USA. Accepting anything less is accepting that America doesn't need to be exceptional and that "good enough" will do.

Public schools aren't *quality*.

That's a generalization. There are some good public schools.

Actually it's not the schools that are better, it's the parents that are better. In upscale neighborhoods the parents are educated professionals who are motivated for their children to learn. Most of what children learn is taught by their parents. Schools simply put a rubber stamp on it.

That's simply not true. There are plenty of good parents in the zip codes with struggling schools. The problems are many and not easily boiled down to bumper stickers. Schools are underfunded, racially segregated (Which still happens, see Lincoln parish in Louisiana that was forced to desegregate in 2015), or the cost of living is high enough that both parents work multiple jobs.

I think though we can both agree that having a failing public school is simply unacceptable. I think a lot of the rancor stems from the idea of how you fix it.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

That's one of the challenges you have to live with if you want to be a farmer. Schooling is another.

That's only acceptable if you're fine with creating a permanent serf class. Kids should have access to quality food and quality education regardless of location in the USA. Accepting anything less is accepting that America doesn't need to be exceptional and that "good enough" will do.

Public schools aren't *quality*.

That's a generalization. There are some good public schools.

Actually it's not the schools that are better, it's the parents that are better. In upscale neighborhoods the parents are educated professionals who are motivated for their children to learn. Most of what children learn is taught by their parents. Schools simply put a rubber stamp on it.

That's simply not true. There are plenty of good parents in the zip codes with struggling schools. The problems are many and not easily boiled down to bumper stickers. Schools are underfunded, racially segregated (Which still happens, see Lincoln parish in Louisiana that was forced to desegregate in 2015), or the cost of living is high enough that both parents work multiple jobs.

I think though we can both agree that having a failing public school is simply unacceptable. I think a lot of the rancor stems from the idea of how you fix it.

The sad fact is public schools will continue to struggle as long as teachers' unions continue to have a stranglehold on the purse strings, regardless of whether the federal government is involved or not.

 

[boilermaker55]

I would like to see the data to back up your statement.
For every home schooled intellect you come up with someone can show you the equivalent from public schools.

I don't believe liberal parents should be forced to make their children attend conservative public schools in red states and vice versa.

Home schooling is great if you want to raise a child with no exposure to any other ideas than your own,

Most people do not have the capability to home school because their own education is lacking or it is not feasible because of work schedules, etc.

If you can do it, great! If not, don't try to use it as a dodge for mandatory attendance laws or you will just be raising another idiot dependent on social services.

And yet somehow homeschooled kids kick ass on virtually every measure. For the record I homeschooled my older son. All the homeschooled kids I ever met, even where their parents were hardly intellects, were polite and could interact well with adults.

 

[boilermaker55]

The fix is not to point fingers at one particular aspect involved in a child's education. Look at all the factors and investigate then work with the primary problem.
It is to easy to find one bad instructor and blame the entire system.
But the right wingers find this as an easy way out.

That's one of the challenges you have to live with if you want to be a farmer. Schooling is another.

That's only acceptable if you're fine with creating a permanent serf class. Kids should have access to quality food and quality education regardless of location in the USA. Accepting anything less is accepting that America doesn't need to be exceptional and that "good enough" will do.

Public schools aren't *quality*.

That's a generalization. There are some good public schools.

Actually it's not the schools that are better, it's the parents that are better. In upscale neighborhoods the parents are educated professionals who are motivated for their children to learn. Most of what children learn is taught by their parents. Schools simply put a rubber stamp on it.

That's simply not true. There are plenty of good parents in the zip codes with struggling schools. The problems are many and not easily boiled down to bumper stickers. Schools are underfunded, racially segregated (Which still happens, see Lincoln parish in Louisiana that was forced to desegregate in 2015), or the cost of living is high enough that both parents work multiple jobs.

I think though we can both agree that having a failing public school is simply unacceptable. I think a lot of the rancor stems from the idea of how you fix it.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

A general comment for everybody here who thinks that public education sucks: I'm becoming very thankful that my public education experience was good and that the taxes I pay to the schools in my area appear to be well spent. I truly pity the people who live in areas where the schools are as bad as they claim. Must be either low tax or inner city hell holes that I hope never to visit.

My public school education was pretty incredible. My kids go to a pretty incredible one now. Making sure I had a good public school was the number one priority in the house hunt.

That said, my wife and I made the major life decision to both move across country and go from two incomes to one in order for her to be involved in the kid's schooling more and to find better public schools. We were living in an area with horrible public schools while breaking our backs to afford the best private school in town. I don't regret for a minute the change we made, but I understand that as a kid my parents couldn't have done that. If I'd had a bad public school education, that would have essentially been it. A quality education is the single best way to improve your lot in life, be it a trade school education or a college degree. Failing schools short change kids by making it hard to improve their lives financially. That's why a failing school is so unacceptable.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

That's only acceptable if you're fine with creating a permanent serf class. Kids should have access to quality food and quality education regardless of location in the USA. Accepting anything less is accepting that America doesn't need to be exceptional and that "good enough" will do.

Public schools aren't *quality*.

That's a generalization. There are some good public schools.

Actually it's not the schools that are better, it's the parents that are better. In upscale neighborhoods the parents are educated professionals who are motivated for their children to learn. Most of what children learn is taught by their parents. Schools simply put a rubber stamp on it.

That's simply not true. There are plenty of good parents in the zip codes with struggling schools. The problems are many and not easily boiled down to bumper stickers. Schools are underfunded, racially segregated (Which still happens, see Lincoln parish in Louisiana that was forced to desegregate in 2015), or the cost of living is high enough that both parents work multiple jobs.

I think though we can both agree that having a failing public school is simply unacceptable. I think a lot of the rancor stems from the idea of how you fix it.

The sad fact is public schools will continue to struggle as long as teachers' unions continue to have a stranglehold on the purse strings, regardless of whether the federal government is involved or not.

I'm not sure. I think that without Teacher's unions a lot of qualified folks would leave the field and leave us all the poorer for it. I've got friends in Wisconsin and right after Walker instituted his changes school boards in a lot of districts went pretty draconian on their teachers. In response, many left the profession. A good teacher can make more money doing other things and if pushed, they will. A bad teacher is more likely to stick around because they CAN'T do something else. And good luck firing them when your school is already 5-10 teachers short meeting the need for teachers in their school.

If we wan to abolish things like tenure or the teachers unions, we will have to be willing to pay more just to draw in folks to teach.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

The fix is not to point fingers at one particular aspect involved in a child's education. Look at all the factors and investigate then work with the primary problem.
It is to easy to find one bad instructor and blame the entire system.
But the right wingers find this as an easy way out.

That's only acceptable if you're fine with creating a permanent serf class. Kids should have access to quality food and quality education regardless of location in the USA. Accepting anything less is accepting that America doesn't need to be exceptional and that "good enough" will do.

Public schools aren't *quality*.

That's a generalization. There are some good public schools.

Actually it's not the schools that are better, it's the parents that are better. In upscale neighborhoods the parents are educated professionals who are motivated for their children to learn. Most of what children learn is taught by their parents. Schools simply put a rubber stamp on it.

That's simply not true. There are plenty of good parents in the zip codes with struggling schools. The problems are many and not easily boiled down to bumper stickers. Schools are underfunded, racially segregated (Which still happens, see Lincoln parish in Louisiana that was forced to desegregate in 2015), or the cost of living is high enough that both parents work multiple jobs.

I think though we can both agree that having a failing public school is simply unacceptable. I think a lot of the rancor stems from the idea of how you fix it.

Oh, I'm not suggesting teachers are the only problem, merely that it's a large problem.

Think about how much better a school could be if they could get rid of all the bad students and the bad teachers. As a teacher , of course why should we pay you to be substandard at your job? And as a student, why should we be forced to spend resources educating you if you don't care about your education?