Is homeschooling a good solution?

[koshergrl]

Public schools aren't *quality*.

It depends greatly on your zip code, which is the real problem here. There are quite a few quality public schools out there. On the other hand, if you're in a zip code where the schools are terrible then you're pretty much out of luck.

Spoken like a true comrade.

It is the job of the parents to educate their children. If they don't like the quality of the schools, then they should create better ones.

Americans have done that forever. Our schools only turned shitty after the feds started interfering in them.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

... Don't most states allow you to send your child to any public school if you're willing to transport them there? ....

No.

In my state you certainly can . You have to enroll early if it's not the district you live in, but you aren't tied to a certain school.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

The difference is that in many families, they opt to live on a lot less just so they can provide that to their kids.

And one of the reason they opt for a lower standard of living is that they care about their kids, and they DON'T want their education and their character fucked with by the government schools.

Not every family can afford to. Single parent households are pretty much screwed. There are quite a few areas where its impossible for a single person on a single income to survive the cost of living, much less support a family on one income.

And as far as public schools go, there are really good public schools out there. But even with the good schools it helps to have a parent who can be involved.

 

[JoeNormal]

And yet somehow homeschooled kids kick ass on virtually every measure. For the record I homeschooled my older son. All the homeschooled kids I ever met, even where their parents were hardly intellects, were polite and could interact well with adults.

Great post Rabbi. All statistics show that homeschooled children excel far beyond public schooled children in every category (academics, social, religious, political, etc.)

“A recent study shows that homeschooled kids score almost twice as high on exams as public school students. Other studies show that homeschooled kids score 72 points higher than the national average on SAT exams.

Homeschoolers are more likely to attend college, are more likely to graduate, and have higher college GPAs (Grade Point Averages) than other students.
The old wives’ tale spread by the teachers’ unions (who are afraid of competition) is that homeschoolers are not “socialized.” Well, the facts are in. Homeschoolers are almost twice as involved in their local community or church as public school students, and almost three times as involved in politics.

Homeschooled children also have far fewer behavioral problems.”

Excerpt From: Wayne Allyn Root. “The Ultimate Obama Survival Guide.” Regnery Publishing, 2013-03-26. iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.

Check out this book on the iBooks Store: The Ultimate Obama Survival Guide by Wayne Allyn Root on iBooks

Somehow, those testing advantages seem to disappear when in college. I don't know if the testing at home is more lax or they just tend to fall apart outside of the secure, comforting environment of the home.

So, IOW, the best home schooled students are on par with the best government schooled students in college? Sounds like a validation of home schooling to me, that two parents can give their child an education on par with that provided by an entire education system.

No, they're not on a par. All of the scary-smart people I've ever known were publicly schooled.

Anecdotal evidence does not inform the totality of the equation.

Pull up at stat on 'scary-smart' then and see which system produces the most.

 

[hadit]

I could not teach in today's world. Not for the pittance they are paid for putting up with today's entitled youth. I would never forego my earning potential to do that. Why anyone does is bizarre. Its so much easier to make double in the private sector for half the effort.

"pittance?" They hardly do any work. They have a 6 hour work day and they only work about 180 days out of the year. They get paid far more than they are worth, if you ask me.

Utterly ignorant. ^^^

That's not even remotely "utter ignorance" - it is 100% fact. We crunched the numbers for my children's school district and they work part time. Literally part time. Only 5 hours per day (which is absolutely laughable) and then they have 3 days at Thanksgiving, two weeks at Christmas, a week at Easter, plus a slew of days for stuff that nobody else in America gets time off for (like Presidents Day, Martin Luther King Jr. day, etc.), and of course, three months in summer. And yet the average salary in the district was a staggering $78,000 per year. And mind you - that may not sound much in some areas like New York City or California. But in this area, that is a TON of money. Who in the hell makes $78,000 for part time work?!? I know people who put in 60 hours per week and don't even come close to that kind of money.

I know of no teacher that only works during office hours. If they do, they're not a good teacher.

And I know of no people in the private sector (at least in the corporate world - might be different in the blue collar world, I don't really know) that only work office hours. What is your point?

Those teachers are still putting in anywhere from 50% to 75% less hours than the average American and making around 40% to 45% more money. It's so absurd there is no way to articulate it.

And for the record - their job is to teach and the students are not available to them after school hours. Which means they are not doing their core job after office hours. At most they might be grading a few papers with their feet up in front of the tv. Oooooh! Comparing a students answers to an answer key. And hell, their spouses and their children help with that most of the time anyway. Bottom line - it's the ultimate cush job. And I'm ok with that. I really am. But stop screwing the tax payer with these exorbitant salaries, healthcare plans, and retirement pensions. Pay them $35,000 year (more than fair for part time work), give them a good healthcare plan (not cadillac) and a good pension (again - not cadillac) and then sell them on the fact that they not only have job security, excellent benefits, but that they also get an extreme amount of personal time and vacation time. That is a FAIR total compensation package. I'm sick of these left-wing unions wanting their cake and eating it to. They want employees to make six-figures a year and work less than part time. Sorry, but that's not how the real world works.

While teachers' unions drive salaries higher than they should be, teachers most emphatically do NOT work fewer hours than other workers do. They must be at school before the students get there, then must remain at school through the end of the teaching day, then be available for after school activities, such as athletics (if they are involved in such), or parent teacher conferences or after school tutoring. It is only after all that is done that the teacher is able to correct homework/quizzes/tests. Consider that a teacher will have 25-30 students in a single class and will teach 3 or more classes in a day, and you begin to comprehend the amount of work that needs attention. Then, on top of all that, teachers need to deal with disruptive students who can make class hell on earth. No, teachers do not have an easy time of it. If they did, more people would want to be teachers.

 

[koshergrl]

Public schools aren't *quality*.

It depends greatly on your zip code, which is the real problem here. There are quite a few quality public schools out there. On the other hand, if you're in a zip code where the schools are terrible then you're pretty much out of luck.

Why is that? Don't most states allow you to send your child to any public school if you're willing to transport them there? Again, it's all about parental involvement..

Er..no, they don't. Unless the kid actually lives in the district, they can't attend the school.

But we do have superior charter schools.

And lots of working home schooling families band together and create little mini-homeschool networks that work out great.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Public schools aren't *quality*.

It depends greatly on your zip code, which is the real problem here. There are quite a few quality public schools out there. On the other hand, if you're in a zip code where the schools are terrible then you're pretty much out of luck.

Spoken like a true comrade.

It is the job of the parents to educate their children. If they don't like the quality of the schools, then they should create better ones.

Americans have done that forever. Our schools only turned shitty after the feds started interfering in them.

Wow you've turned nasty fast here. Calm down. We don't disagree by that much.

The preferable situation is always an involved parent. They can make a public, private, or homeschooled situation work. If you have the education or the capability to do homeschooling, then I'm always in favor of that.

The problem is, not everyone can homeschool or should. Not everyone can afford private school. We owe it to the kids to make sure that they get a quality education at a public school if that is where they end up going. And we do a good job in some zip codes. Others we do not and that is the tragedy and scandal.

 

[koshergrl]

No, that's actually not why we form governments. The state is a means for a predatory class to plunder a serf class and harvest their production. Government has always been based on plunder and exploitation.

Funny how people in rural areas manage to get groceries, but they can't get adequate schooling?

Actually, there's a lot of studies looking at the distance people have to travel to get to grocery stores in rural or very poor urban areas. It's shockingly bad. I can vouch for this as whenever I go visit family in Southern Illinois and/or Southern Indiana the distance to a grocery store is pretty rough.

That's one of the challenges you have to live with if you want to be a farmer. Schooling is another.

That's only acceptable if you're fine with creating a permanent serf class. Kids should have access to quality food and quality education regardless of location in the USA. Accepting anything less is accepting that America doesn't need to be exceptional and that "good enough" will do.

Public schools aren't *quality*.

That's a generalization. There are some good public schools.

And I'm sure there were some good Nazis, too. Who cares? It's idiotic to let the government educate your children. They turn out like Care and guano.

 

[hadit]

Great post Rabbi. All statistics show that homeschooled children excel far beyond public schooled children in every category (academics, social, religious, political, etc.)

“A recent study shows that homeschooled kids score almost twice as high on exams as public school students. Other studies show that homeschooled kids score 72 points higher than the national average on SAT exams.

Homeschoolers are more likely to attend college, are more likely to graduate, and have higher college GPAs (Grade Point Averages) than other students.
The old wives’ tale spread by the teachers’ unions (who are afraid of competition) is that homeschoolers are not “socialized.” Well, the facts are in. Homeschoolers are almost twice as involved in their local community or church as public school students, and almost three times as involved in politics.

Homeschooled children also have far fewer behavioral problems.”

Excerpt From: Wayne Allyn Root. “The Ultimate Obama Survival Guide.” Regnery Publishing, 2013-03-26. iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.

Check out this book on the iBooks Store: The Ultimate Obama Survival Guide by Wayne Allyn Root on iBooks

Somehow, those testing advantages seem to disappear when in college. I don't know if the testing at home is more lax or they just tend to fall apart outside of the secure, comforting environment of the home.

So, IOW, the best home schooled students are on par with the best government schooled students in college? Sounds like a validation of home schooling to me, that two parents can give their child an education on par with that provided by an entire education system.

No, they're not on a par. All of the scary-smart people I've ever known were publicly schooled.

Anecdotal evidence does not inform the totality of the equation.

Pull up at stat on 'scary-smart' then and see which system produces the most.

Scary smart is not determined by education. You do know that, right? Also, since you seem interested in statistics, are you accounting for the sheer bulk of government schooled students vs the relatively miniscule number of home schooled? If you want to talk simple numbers and not percentages, government schools produce far, far more drug attacks, gang members, and teen age mothers than do home schools.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Public schools aren't *quality*.

It depends greatly on your zip code, which is the real problem here. There are quite a few quality public schools out there. On the other hand, if you're in a zip code where the schools are terrible then you're pretty much out of luck.

Why is that? Don't most states allow you to send your child to any public school if you're willing to transport them there? Again, it's all about parental involvement..

Er..no, they don't. Unless the kid actually lives in the district, they can't attend the school.

But we do have superior charter schools.

And lots of working home schooling families band together and create little mini-homeschool networks that work out great.

I'd add, if you can take advantage of those, they make for very good learning communities.

 

[bripat9643]

No, that's actually not why we form governments. The state is a means for a predatory class to plunder a serf class and harvest their production. Government has always been based on plunder and exploitation.

Funny how people in rural areas manage to get groceries, but they can't get adequate schooling?

Actually, there's a lot of studies looking at the distance people have to travel to get to grocery stores in rural or very poor urban areas. It's shockingly bad. I can vouch for this as whenever I go visit family in Southern Illinois and/or Southern Indiana the distance to a grocery store is pretty rough.

That's one of the challenges you have to live with if you want to be a farmer. Schooling is another.

That's only acceptable if you're fine with creating a permanent serf class. Kids should have access to quality food and quality education regardless of location in the USA. Accepting anything less is accepting that America doesn't need to be exceptional and that "good enough" will do.

Public schools aren't *quality*.

That's a generalization. There are some good public schools.

Actually it's not the schools that are better, it's the parents that are better. In upscale neighborhoods the parents are educated professionals who are motivated for their children to learn. Most of what children learn is taught by their parents. Schools simply put a rubber stamp on it.

 

[koshergrl]

Public schools aren't *quality*.

It depends greatly on your zip code, which is the real problem here. There are quite a few quality public schools out there. On the other hand, if you're in a zip code where the schools are terrible then you're pretty much out of luck.

Spoken like a true comrade.

It is the job of the parents to educate their children. If they don't like the quality of the schools, then they should create better ones.

Americans have done that forever. Our schools only turned shitty after the feds started interfering in them.

Wow you've turned nasty fast here. Calm down. We don't disagree by that much.

The preferable situation is always an involved parent. They can make a public, private, or homeschooled situation work. If you have the education or the capability to do homeschooling, then I'm always in favor of that.

The problem is, not everyone can homeschool or should. Not everyone can afford private school. We owe it to the kids to make sure that they get a quality education at a public school if that is where they end up going. And we do a good job in some zip codes. Others we do not and that is the tragedy and scandal.

Again. It is not the government's job to educate our children.

When you allow them to do that, they churn out illiterate, brainwashed, big government minions who view the government as some sort of god.

 

[hadit]

Might produce good grades for some but the real world isn't at home with mom.

Home schooled kids do much better in college than others, so what's the downside?

Isolated weird kids that can't fit in.

If you're going to comment - could you at least know what you're talking about first instead of just making shit up to support an irrational ideology?!?

Homeschooled children are exponentially more socially adjust than public school misfits. They are more active in their community, church, and politics than public school students.

Do Homeschool Kids Really Rate Better on Standardized Tests?

15 Key Facts About Homeschooled Kids in College - OnlineCollege.org

Homeschool World - Articles - The Facts Are In: Homeschoolers Excel - Practical Homeschooling Magazine

HSLDA | Socialization: Homeschoolers Are in the Real World

When you aren't raised normally, you don't fit in. Going to school with other kids is what normal kids do. If you want a freak, keep them home pretending the real world is for others.

Do I want young adults who are trained to act like older adults or like kids?

 

[bripat9643]

No, that's actually not why we form governments. The state is a means for a predatory class to plunder a serf class and harvest their production. Government has always been based on plunder and exploitation.

Funny how people in rural areas manage to get groceries, but they can't get adequate schooling?

Actually, there's a lot of studies looking at the distance people have to travel to get to grocery stores in rural or very poor urban areas. It's shockingly bad. I can vouch for this as whenever I go visit family in Southern Illinois and/or Southern Indiana the distance to a grocery store is pretty rough.

That's one of the challenges you have to live with if you want to be a farmer. Schooling is another.

That's only acceptable if you're fine with creating a permanent serf class. Kids should have access to quality food and quality education regardless of location in the USA. Accepting anything less is accepting that America doesn't need to be exceptional and that "good enough" will do.

Farmers are hardly a serf class. Most of them are quite wealthy. The own millions of dollars of real estate, millions of dollars of farm equipment. They live quite well. Living on a farm is a decision for parents to make. Why should the rest of us pay for their decision and their choice of lifestyle?

Because "the rest of us" eat, moron.

So? We also put gas in our cars and turn on the lights in our home.

 

[hadit]

Just because a kid doesn't go to school doesn't mean he's a weirdo. And look, I agree that school i a great primer for life in the social interaction department. You learn how to deal with others, how not be bullied, etc. But, you can be normal without it. For many, many years kids didn't go to traditional schools.

Many of our best presidents were not educated in "traditional" schools.

 

[OldLady]

And yet somehow homeschooled kids kick ass on virtually every measure. For the record I homeschooled my older son. All the homeschooled kids I ever met, even where their parents were hardly intellects, were polite and could interact well with adults.

How were they with kids? Oddballs I bet.

That's pretty much a homeschool myth.

It's no more BS than those claiming that in general home schooled kids to better than public educated children do. BOTH rely on slanted studies and anecdotal evidence to support the writer's preformed opinion

All I know is, the homeschooled students I have known were perhaps better mannered than the average kid but perfectly able to interact with peers. They were much better educated than their peers in public school. One-on-one instruction usually aces instruction in a large group. Most of these kids have siblings, neighborhood friends, and many are active in sports. At least none of the ones I've known were strange or socially lacking. I know that is anecdotal, but I am guessing your aversion to homeschooling is also based on one or two kids you have encountered somewhere along the way.

Also speaking anecdotally, the parents that do it right (Organized fieldtrips, sports, organized play dates/outings) raise children who are totally normal socially. They also raise children who are outstanding academically.

The parents who do it terribly usually give up and dump their kids back into public schools that by law have to take them in. That makes it hard to realistically track and compare test scores as failed homeschooled children end up in the public school testing pool. As I said though, if you can do it and do it well, you should. If you can't, don't. I work with my kids in the summer with a pretty rigid schedule on math, reading and writing. The personal cost to me is that it tanks my productivity in the summer to do it and the kids hate it. There's no way I could keep that up in the school year and work full time. Moral of the story: It wouldn't work for me full year.

I wish we had some way to track how homeschooled children are doing, once they've been taken out of public school, but there is no money in the budget or time in the day for school personnel to track and follow these kids. I've seen the 'dark side' of homeschooling, as well, when parents pulled kids out of school after the school reported abuse or neglect, or because the kid didn't feel like going and the parents didn't feel like arguing about it, or because the parent couldn't get out of bed to get the kid on the bus in the morning. I've also met parents so ignorant they can barely write their name, claiming they are "homeschooling." That can't be stopped, for some reason, and it is unfair to our kids. I'm quite sure that back in the 80's, there were rules that you needed a bachelor's degree in order to homeschool. That was overkill, but no follow up whatsoever is really a problem for some kids who aren't getting any education at all.

 

[JoeNormal]

Somehow, those testing advantages seem to disappear when in college. I don't know if the testing at home is more lax or they just tend to fall apart outside of the secure, comforting environment of the home.

So, IOW, the best home schooled students are on par with the best government schooled students in college? Sounds like a validation of home schooling to me, that two parents can give their child an education on par with that provided by an entire education system.

No, they're not on a par. All of the scary-smart people I've ever known were publicly schooled.

Anecdotal evidence does not inform the totality of the equation.

Pull up at stat on 'scary-smart' then and see which system produces the most.

Scary smart is not determined by education. You do know that, right? Also, since you seem interested in statistics, are you accounting for the sheer bulk of government schooled students vs the relatively miniscule number of home schooled? If you want to talk simple numbers and not percentages, government schools produce far, far more drug attacks, gang members, and teen age mothers than do home schools.

I did a little searching today and found that currently home schooled kids tend to be from more affluent homes. That alone accounts for much of the supposed advantage that home schooled kids supposedly exhibit. How's that for a stat? Compare apples to apples.

 

[Unkotare]

Actually, there's a lot of studies looking at the distance people have to travel to get to grocery stores in rural or very poor urban areas. It's shockingly bad. I can vouch for this as whenever I go visit family in Southern Illinois and/or Southern Indiana the distance to a grocery store is pretty rough.

That's one of the challenges you have to live with if you want to be a farmer. Schooling is another.

That's only acceptable if you're fine with creating a permanent serf class. Kids should have access to quality food and quality education regardless of location in the USA. Accepting anything less is accepting that America doesn't need to be exceptional and that "good enough" will do.

Farmers are hardly a serf class. Most of them are quite wealthy. The own millions of dollars of real estate, millions of dollars of farm equipment. They live quite well. Living on a farm is a decision for parents to make. Why should the rest of us pay for their decision and their choice of lifestyle?

Because "the rest of us" eat, moron.

So? We also put gas in our cars and turn on the lights in our home.

Which is necessary to live?

 

[hadit]

Might produce good grades for some but the real world isn't at home with mom.

Home schooled kids do much better in college than others, so what's the downside?

They still have to live in the real world.

And the real world that they're not living in is what, exactly? Let's see, there's who to avoid on the playground, where you can score a joint, how to cheat a system to get what you want without earning it, and who you can make fun of without getting beat up, and where everything is geared toward giving you something. What else? IOW, school is not the real world, it's a world of kids.

 

[hadit]

So, IOW, the best home schooled students are on par with the best government schooled students in college? Sounds like a validation of home schooling to me, that two parents can give their child an education on par with that provided by an entire education system.

No, they're not on a par. All of the scary-smart people I've ever known were publicly schooled.

Anecdotal evidence does not inform the totality of the equation.

Pull up at stat on 'scary-smart' then and see which system produces the most.

Scary smart is not determined by education. You do know that, right? Also, since you seem interested in statistics, are you accounting for the sheer bulk of government schooled students vs the relatively miniscule number of home schooled? If you want to talk simple numbers and not percentages, government schools produce far, far more drug attacks, gang members, and teen age mothers than do home schools.

I did a little searching today and found that currently home schooled kids tend to be from more affluent homes. That alone accounts for much of the supposed advantage that home schooled kids supposedly exhibit. How's that for a stat? Compare apples to apples.

So, you've established that parents with the means and inclination to school their kids at home can provide them with an excellent education. I fail to see the downside.