Is being black a right?

[Skylar]

He had a penis. He's post op now.

He has a penis.

Lets just say its been 'modified'.

We could say that. But it would be a lie.

Turning a penis inside out is definitely a modification in my book.

 

[bravoactual]

I hate humanity a little more every day. So, gender is a choice, race is now a choice. That transanimal thread is starting to look like a real thing.

Rachel Dolezal has a right to be black Opinion - CNN.com

You are an idiot. A person is born Black. Just a person is born Gay/Lesbian.

 

[SwimExpert]

What "absurdity" are we talkin' here?

The absurdity that this woman is anything less than a liar and a fraud.

I asked in the Silly Thread about a hundred times what the point was, never got a rational answer. So her parents are not who people expect them to be? So what? What do we know about the parents of any given office executive? Why does it matter?

Rachel Dolezal's parents are not who she claimed them to be.

This is the man Dolezal claimed was her biological father. She intentionally misled people to intentionally misrepresent her race and ethnicity. This is not a matter of a person identifying with an ethnically based subculture. This is a matter of lies and deception.

What exactly is the hangup on ski color and "qualifications" for a racial category? Are we pretending "race" is some sort of clear-cut either/or terminology reducable to some mathematical formula?

No such pretense need be involved here. The concept of race may be poorly defined, maybe even impossible to define beyond loose generalities, but this is not a matter of sorting through grey areas. Rachel Dolezal is not black. In no way, shape, or form can anyone honestly claim that she is black, without first abandoning all rationality and sanity. My father was a very dark skinned Puerto Rican. Some people would call him black, some people would say it "doesn't count." That's a reasonable discussion, whether it would have been accurate to refer to my father as "black." Rachel Dolezal does not present such a situation.

 

[SwimExpert]

He had a penis. He's post op now.

He has a penis.

Lets just say its been 'modified'.

We could say that. But it would be a lie.

Turning a penis inside out is definitely a modification in my book.

Cool story, bro. Bruce Jenner has done no such thing.

 

[hazlnut]

I hate humanity a little more every day. So, gender is a choice, race is now a choice. That transanimal thread is starting to look like a real thing.

Rachel Dolezal has a right to be black Opinion - CNN.com

One very confused women.

One Opinion piece.


Yeah, the tide is really turning….

 

[Pogo]

What "absurdity" are we talkin' here?

The absurdity that this woman is anything less than a liar and a fraud.

I asked in the Silly Thread about a hundred times what the point was, never got a rational answer. So her parents are not who people expect them to be? So what? What do we know about the parents of any given office executive? Why does it matter?

Rachel Dolezal's parents are not who she claimed them to be.

This is the man Dolezal claimed was her biological father. She intentionally misled people to intentionally misrepresent her race and ethnicity. This is not a matter of a person identifying with an ethnically based subculture. This is a matter of lies and deception.

Repeating this point of correction -- she certainly did mislead people that this was her father, but she did not claim that.

What exactly is the hangup on ski color and "qualifications" for a racial category? Are we pretending "race" is some sort of clear-cut either/or terminology reducable to some mathematical formula?

No such pretense need be involved here. The concept of race may be poorly defined, maybe even impossible to define beyond loose generalities, but this is not a matter of sorting through grey areas. Rachel Dolezal is not black. In no way, shape, or form can anyone honestly claim that she is black, without first abandoning all rationality and sanity. My father was a very dark skinned Puerto Rican. Some people would call him black, some people would say it "doesn't count." That's a reasonable discussion, whether it would have been accurate to refer to my father as "black." Rachel Dolezal does not present such a situation.

I could rephrase the question as: why does it matter how she identifies?

Absolutely "race" is poorly -- I would say vaguely -- defined, and has complex meaning. While it can mean a human of sub-Saharan African extraction, obviously that's not the meaning we employ when we speak of "black music" or "black vernacular" or even "the (generalized) black family". Just as we aren't talking about biology when we speak of "white culture" or "white power". So it's a bit disingenuous to conclude that if person X identifies as "black", she is claiming a literal ingredients list of her DNA ---- and nothing else.

In other words to conclude that the terms "black" and "white", as applied to people, mean only the color of one's skin, is playing very loosely with the facts.

I'm seeing, "waah, she identified as black and she's not" -- to me it's a matter of "she identifies as black.... yawn, how 'bout dem Cubs?". It's the obsession with skin color that I find bizarre. Next we'll have color police running around with color charts checking everybody's skin so that we may have the joys of pigeonholing. They'll be very busy on the beaches.

Ultimately I guess what I don't get is the passion put into all of this. Couple of hundred posts here, well over a thousand in the Silly Thread, still going on, and what stands out is the vitriol. As in mouth-frothing anger, as in people apparently reacting as if they're personally insulted, expressing outrage, calling for driving her out of town, collecting allies to keep the pressure on, as if this is all some kind of threat. That doesn't add up. I mean women color their hair blonde, older people color the grey out, change their appearance any number of ways, and nobody hits the proverbial roof over it.

 

[SwimExpert]

Repeating this point of correction -- she certainly did mislead people that this was her father, but she did not claim that.

Just read that over again. And again. Until it hits you how absurd that statement is.

 

[Pogo]

Repeating this point of correction -- she certainly did mislead people that this was her father, but she did not claim that.

Just read that over again. And again. Until it hits you how absurd that statement is.

No, it's true. Watch.

This is the photo originally quoted, as it appeared on Nosebook, complete with its caption:

​

It says her father will be coming, and simultaneously it displays a picture of this friend of hers. As a cherry on top it splashes "special guest" under his image. Two people mentioned in the text (1-Dolezal, 2-her "father"), and two people pictured.

Except nowhere does it explicitly say, "this is my father in the picture". She's deliberately left herself an "out" of (im)plausible deniability. I have no doubt that was done deliberately.

Obviously it's set up that way to give that impression, and obviously that setup is misleading. But it is not making the declarative statement "this is my father; he'll be speaking on Jan. 19 etc etc")

So it's inaccurate to say she claims this is her father, since technically --- she didn't. Actually AFAIK the only time/place I saw her actually confirm a positive ID of her father is when the reporter shows her a pic of her actual father, Larry in Montana. "Yep-- that's my dad". That's a declarative statement.

Advertising and political rhetoric pull this weasel word song and dance literally every day.

 

[g5000]

Best. Topic Title. Ever.

 

[SwimExpert]

Repeating this point of correction -- she certainly did mislead people that this was her father, but she did not claim that.

Just read that over again. And again. Until it hits you how absurd that statement is.

No, it's true. Watch.

This is the photo originally quoted, as it appeared on Nosebook, complete with its caption:

​

It says her father will be coming, and simultaneously it displays a picture of this friend of hers. As a cherry on top it splashes "special guest" under his image. Two people mentioned in the text (1-Dolezal, 2-her "father"), and two people pictured.

Except nowhere does it explicitly say, "this is my father in the picture". She's deliberately left herself an "out" of (im)plausible deniability. I have no doubt that was done deliberately.

Obviously it's set up that way to give that impression, and obviously that setup is misleading. But it is not making the declarative statement "this is my father; he'll be speaking on Jan. 19 etc etc")

So it's inaccurate to say she claims this is her father, since technically --- she didn't. Actually AFAIK the only time/place I saw her actually confirm a positive ID of her father is when the reporter shows her a pic of her actual father, Larry in Montana. "Yep-- that's my dad". That's a declarative statement.

Advertising and political rhetoric pull this weasel word song and dance literally every day.

As I said before, I'm not going to wade into an ocean of spin and absurdities. Good day to you.

 

[Pogo]

Repeating this point of correction -- she certainly did mislead people that this was her father, but she did not claim that.

Just read that over again. And again. Until it hits you how absurd that statement is.

No, it's true. Watch.

This is the photo originally quoted, as it appeared on Nosebook, complete with its caption:

​

It says her father will be coming, and simultaneously it displays a picture of this friend of hers. As a cherry on top it splashes "special guest" under his image. Two people mentioned in the text (1-Dolezal, 2-her "father"), and two people pictured.

Except nowhere does it explicitly say, "this is my father in the picture". She's deliberately left herself an "out" of (im)plausible deniability. I have no doubt that was done deliberately.

Obviously it's set up that way to give that impression, and obviously that setup is misleading. But it is not making the declarative statement "this is my father; he'll be speaking on Jan. 19 etc etc")

So it's inaccurate to say she claims this is her father, since technically --- she didn't. Actually AFAIK the only time/place I saw her actually confirm a positive ID of her father is when the reporter shows her a pic of her actual father, Larry in Montana. "Yep-- that's my dad". That's a declarative statement.

Advertising and political rhetoric pull this weasel word song and dance literally every day.

As I said before, I'm not going to wade into an ocean of spin and absurdities. Good day to you.

There ain't no "spin" in it.
EITHER there is a declarative statement there --- OR there is not.

If there is, show me where it is.

Not that complex.

 

[Pogo]

Best. Topic Title. Ever.

Eh ---- I dunno, I'm still partial to "Which hand does Obama wipe his ass with".
I kinda wish the mods hadn't vaporized it. That was some funny.

 

[blackhawk]

 

[Pogo]

Repeating this point of correction -- she certainly did mislead people that this was her father, but she did not claim that.

Just read that over again. And again. Until it hits you how absurd that statement is.

Still interesting you chose to focus on the least important throwaway tangent of that post and ignore the bulk, which was:

Ultimately I guess what I don't get is the passion put into all of this. Couple of hundred posts here, well over a thousand in the Silly Thread, still going on, and what stands out is the vitriol. As in mouth-frothing anger, as in people apparently reacting as if they're personally insulted, expressing outrage, calling for driving her out of town, collecting allies to keep the pressure on, as if this is all some kind of threat. That doesn't add up. I mean women color their hair blonde, older people color the grey out, change their appearance any number of ways, and nobody hits the proverbial roof over it.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I hate humanity a little more every day. So, gender is a choice, race is now a choice. That transanimal thread is starting to look like a real thing.

Rachel Dolezal has a right to be black Opinion - CNN.com

I don't think the fact that you found one person's opinion about that is sufficient to draw a broad conclusion about humanity's opinion on the matter.

 

[Pogo]

I hate humanity a little more every day. So, gender is a choice, race is now a choice. That transanimal thread is starting to look like a real thing.

Rachel Dolezal has a right to be black Opinion - CNN.com

I don't think the fact that you found one person's opinion about that is sufficient to draw a broad conclusion about humanity's opinion on the matter.

Opinions are complex though, especially when developed in an article. The author's conclusion:

>> Dolezal's case forces us to examine our society, which made her feel that passing for a black woman was her best choice in her advocacy for African American issues. She forces us to consider whether our biology or our action is more important to identity, and should we act in ways that honor our chosen identity in meaningful ways. We should not have to be slaves to the biological definition of identity, and we should not use race or gender identities as weapons to punish one another. <<​

-- offers some very worthy questions.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

I hate humanity a little more every day. So, gender is a choice, race is now a choice. That transanimal thread is starting to look like a real thing.

Rachel Dolezal has a right to be black Opinion - CNN.com

No, Dolezal does not have a right to be black. She has a right to be a white woman. That's it. She shouldn't be ashamed of what she is.

So, I'd assume the same is true of a black person. You are born black, you can't be white. Well, I must note one very famous exception, in Micheal Jackson. He was pretty white before he died.

A few years back there was a set of twins born, one white, one black. There was black in the genetics of one of the parents if I remember correctly.
What is to say that regardless of the skin color, the mind is telling them something else.
Just like those that claim to be female in the mind but have all the male parts. Bruce Jenner comes to mind right now.

 

[Wake]

Eh.

"Being black." "Being white." "Being light-brown." "Being 'X' color."

There are various in the world. It simply "is." What does "being black" mean, and "being white"?

I hate it when some seem to think that the skin you're born with comes with attached behaviors/personalities/inclinations, etc. Any black/white/brown/whatever skin color person can be raised by one or two or more people and be unique. I think instead of pretending that skin color comes with this and that, in place of that there's more to do with economics, culture, and the influences of those raising said child.

 

[SwimExpert]

Still interesting you chose to focus on the least important throwaway tangent of that post and ignore the bulk, which was:

Fruit of the poisonous tree - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Pogo]

Still interesting you chose to focus on the least important throwaway tangent of that post and ignore the bulk, which was:

Fruit of the poisonous tree - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Derailment -- Yeah we all know wtf Wiki is