Is anyone ready to discuss politics & stay grounded in reality?

[Ray From Cleveland]

The big factor which you pointed out is "if". Now if the economists were correct that this last recession will last ten years then the economy will finally recover next year and you may be correct as long as Trump can learn to keep his mouth shut and stop feeding the Dems tons of ammunition to use against him and the GOP besides, I think you're underestimating the media's ability to still influence attitudes and perceptions.

Yes, I said if

And that was on purpose

The next presidential election will be a referendum on the economy, same as it ever was

And I think you are over estimating the effect the media can have

They gave it their best shot last time, and I haven't yet seen anything to make me believe that they will be any more successful by doubling down on what turned out to be a failed strategy

If that was true Obama would have lost his second bid at the presidency because the economy sucked. And I believe it is you who is under estimating the power of the media and it's influence on the vast uninformed population that votes.

The economy was not great, but it had improved from when he 1st took office

And again, the media put on the full court press to bring Trump down, didn't work

So, we're at "are not, are too" on that argument

I've made my prediction, does anybody want to tell me why the state of the economy won't be the most important factor in the 2020 election?

I think that's an important part, but immigration problems rank right up there. After all, every candidate ran on a better economy, but Trump and only Trump took the stance of being tough on immigration. The rest used phrases like "immigration reform" and nonsense like that. Nobody asked for reform, we asked that the border be sealed off and the people that don't belong here removed.

Good point

And Trump has been awesome on that front

I don't know about awesome, but he's doing a lot more about it than if any other candidate won.

If the economy were doing fine and we still had people coming here, taking our jobs, changing our language, killing our people, Trump would still have a tough fight on his hands for reelection. We have a huge drug problem in this country--drugs that are coming from somewhere else. Record high overdose deaths in my county and across the country. I believe much of it is coming from our southern border.

More than 50,000 overdose deaths: A grim tally soars to all-time U.S. high

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

The big factor which you pointed out is "if". Now if the economists were correct that this last recession will last ten years then the economy will finally recover next year and you may be correct as long as Trump can learn to keep his mouth shut and stop feeding the Dems tons of ammunition to use against him and the GOP besides, I think you're underestimating the media's ability to still influence attitudes and perceptions.

Yes, I said if

And that was on purpose

The next presidential election will be a referendum on the economy, same as it ever was

And I think you are over estimating the effect the media can have

They gave it their best shot last time, and I haven't yet seen anything to make me believe that they will be any more successful by doubling down on what turned out to be a failed strategy

If that was true Obama would have lost his second bid at the presidency because the economy sucked. And I believe it is you who is under estimating the power of the media and it's influence on the vast uninformed population that votes.

The economy was not great, but it had improved from when he 1st took office

And again, the media put on the full court press to bring Trump down, didn't work

So, we're at "are not, are too" on that argument

I've made my prediction, does anybody want to tell me why the state of the economy won't be the most important factor in the 2020 election?

The MSM is loosing credibility.. they have a rating below that of congress at just 9% who trust it..

As long as we have unrestricted alternative methods to communicate our thoughts, they will never wield that power again..

That's 27 million duped voters. It also doesn't take into account the amount of voters who are indifferent on the media. Take the last election & flip one state....

30 million voters could easily accomplish that.
Presidential elections are not as simple as you are making them out to be. And what good is winning 2020 if we lose big in 2018

 

[Billy_Bob]

The big factor which you pointed out is "if". Now if the economists were correct that this last recession will last ten years then the economy will finally recover next year and you may be correct as long as Trump can learn to keep his mouth shut and stop feeding the Dems tons of ammunition to use against him and the GOP besides, I think you're underestimating the media's ability to still influence attitudes and perceptions.

Yes, I said if

And that was on purpose

The next presidential election will be a referendum on the economy, same as it ever was

And I think you are over estimating the effect the media can have

They gave it their best shot last time, and I haven't yet seen anything to make me believe that they will be any more successful by doubling down on what turned out to be a failed strategy

If that was true Obama would have lost his second bid at the presidency because the economy sucked. And I believe it is you who is under estimating the power of the media and it's influence on the vast uninformed population that votes.

The economy was not great, but it had improved from when he 1st took office

And again, the media put on the full court press to bring Trump down, didn't work

So, we're at "are not, are too" on that argument

I've made my prediction, does anybody want to tell me why the state of the economy won't be the most important factor in the 2020 election?

The MSM is loosing credibility.. they have a rating below that of congress at just 9% who trust it..

As long as we have unrestricted alternative methods to communicate our thoughts, they will never wield that power again..

That's 27 million duped voters. It also doesn't take into account the amount of voters who are indifferent on the media. Take the last election & flip one state....

30 million voters could easily accomplish that.
Presidential elections are not as simple as you are making them out to be. And what good is winning 2020 if we lose big in 2018

I wish we could get that point across to those elected..

 

[james bond]

The Russia thing is still big to me, and not just on Trump. This could go back to Obama. Starting with, I think, the CIA uploading virus software to prevent the Russians from hacking into the election servers on election night. We were engaging in cyber prevention warfare in order to have a fair election. Next, there were allegations of the Trump tower being bugged. Could that have been the Russians? Or Obama as Trump alluded? It still could be a plot by Democrats to tie Trump-Russia or Trump's staff to Russia and pressure the special counsel (name changed from special prosecutor lol) and more federal investigations. Part of this is on Trump because he doesn't have the political experience, so his enemies just continue to pour it on in order to get him to make a mistake.

 

[dcbl]

As a disgruntled member of the GOP I'm more concerned with my party pulling their heads out of their asses and getting down to the shit that matters.

Like tax and health care policy?

Sound like you are echoing what I said baw

 

[Faun]

it has become clear that Trump and his team did not collude with the Russians;

I like how you claim to seek reality based dialog but then open up your thread with complete and utter bullshit.

 

[Mac1958]

it has become clear that Trump and his team did not collude with the Russians; which is no surprise as this whole narrative was always a wild conspiracy theory

bottom line, all of this is just noise

what is important is the tax cuts & the health care policy

republicans WILL get a tax cut pushed through, because they KNOW they will not keep their seats in '18 if they don't

if we (conservatives) are correct - this will be good for the economy & the average person's bottom line & Trump will win reelection easily

if these tax cuts hurt the economy, Trump will lose in '20

it really is as simple as that - the media has broken faith with reality, integrity & the average American - their tantrums won't bring Trump down

it will come down to the effects on people's pocketbooks from his enacted policies

bottom line - personal finances are what drives voters

but hey; these pissing matches about 2 scoops of ice cream and wild conspiracy theories about collusion and obstruction are fun on a message board!

A couple of things:

First, the Democrats blew it and ended up on the ass end of the 2016 elections. They let the regressives speak for them and those folks annoyed enough people to hurt them. They also ran a lousy candidate. So, voilà, we get Trump, and keeping him constantly on the defensive and scaring moderate Republicans with their re-election chances was/is their only play. So far, they're doing a pretty good job with what they have to work with.

Second, Trump himself is such an easy target - the easiest in the history of historical histories, in my estimation - that he's playing right into their strategy with every off-the-cuff quip and tweet. This is a guy you don't have to caricature, because he's pretty much already there. And the press is running with it 100%, obviously, which hurts him even more, which motivates and animates the Democrats even more.

Add those two things together and you have a big ol' shit storm for as long as he's in office.
.

 

[dcbl]

The big factor which you pointed out is "if". Now if the economists were correct that this last recession will last ten years then the economy will finally recover next year and you may be correct as long as Trump can learn to keep his mouth shut and stop feeding the Dems tons of ammunition to use against him and the GOP besides, I think you're underestimating the media's ability to still influence attitudes and perceptions.

Yes, I said if

And that was on purpose

The next presidential election will be a referendum on the economy, same as it ever was

And I think you are over estimating the effect the media can have

They gave it their best shot last time, and I haven't yet seen anything to make me believe that they will be any more successful by doubling down on what turned out to be a failed strategy

If that was true Obama would have lost his second bid at the presidency because the economy sucked. And I believe it is you who is under estimating the power of the media and it's influence on the vast uninformed population that votes.

The economy was not great, but it had improved from when he 1st took office

And again, the media put on the full court press to bring Trump down, didn't work

So, we're at "are not, are too" on that argument

I've made my prediction, does anybody want to tell me why the state of the economy won't be the most important factor in the 2020 election?

The MSM is loosing credibility.. they have a rating below that of congress at just 9% who trust it..

As long as we have unrestricted alternative methods to communicate our thoughts, they will never wield that power again..

That's 27 million duped voters. It also doesn't take into account the amount of voters who are indifferent on the media. Take the last election & flip one state....

30 million voters could easily accomplish that.
Presidential elections are not as simple as you are making them out to be. And what good is winning 2020 if we lose big in 2018

We won't lose big in 2018

Worst case scenario is we lose the House

Best case scenario is we take a 60 seat super majority in the Senate

Most likely scenario is we lose 8 to 18 seats in the House and pick up 3 to 6 in the Senate

 

[james bond]

Can I get a free Bud, too?

 

[dcbl]

it has become clear that Trump and his team did not collude with the Russians;

I like how you claim to seek reality based dialog but then open up your thread with complete and utter bullshit.

Zero evidence of collusion by Trump

Sorry you think that's bullshit

 

[NYcarbineer]

it has become clear that Trump and his team did not collude with the Russians; which is no surprise as this whole narrative was always a wild conspiracy theory

bottom line, all of this is just noise

what is important is the tax cuts & the health care policy

republicans WILL get a tax cut pushed through, because they KNOW they will not keep their seats in '18 if they don't

if we (conservatives) are correct - this will be good for the economy & the average person's bottom line & Trump will win reelection easily

if these tax cuts hurt the economy, Trump will lose in '20

it really is as simple as that - the media has broken faith with reality, integrity & the average American - their tantrums won't bring Trump down

it will come down to the effects on people's pocketbooks from his enacted policies

bottom line - personal finances are what drives voters

but hey; these pissing matches about 2 scoops of ice cream and wild conspiracy theories about collusion and obstruction are fun on a message board!

You type a title about 'grounded in reality' and then proceed to type a post that has no connection to reality.

 

[NYcarbineer]

it has become clear that Trump and his team did not collude with the Russians;

I like how you claim to seek reality based dialog but then open up your thread with complete and utter bullshit.

Zero evidence of collusion by Trump

Sorry you think that's bullshit

Which law enforcement/justice department branch do you work for?

 

[dcbl]

it has become clear that Trump and his team did not collude with the Russians; which is no surprise as this whole narrative was always a wild conspiracy theory

bottom line, all of this is just noise

what is important is the tax cuts & the health care policy

republicans WILL get a tax cut pushed through, because they KNOW they will not keep their seats in '18 if they don't

if we (conservatives) are correct - this will be good for the economy & the average person's bottom line & Trump will win reelection easily

if these tax cuts hurt the economy, Trump will lose in '20

it really is as simple as that - the media has broken faith with reality, integrity & the average American - their tantrums won't bring Trump down

it will come down to the effects on people's pocketbooks from his enacted policies

bottom line - personal finances are what drives voters

but hey; these pissing matches about 2 scoops of ice cream and wild conspiracy theories about collusion and obstruction are fun on a message board!

A couple of things:

First, the Democrats blew it and ended up on the ass end of the 2016 elections. They let the regressives speak for them and those folks annoyed enough people to hurt them. They also ran a lousy candidate. So, voilà, we get Trump, and keeping him constantly on the defensive and scaring moderate Republicans with their re-election chances was/is their only play. So far, they're doing a pretty good job with what they have to work with.

Second, Trump himself is such an easy target - the easiest in the history of historical histories, in my estimation - that he's playing right into their strategy with every off-the-cuff quip and tweet. This is a guy you don't have to caricature, because he's pretty much already there. And the press is running with it 100%, obviously, which hurts him even more, which motivates and animates the Democrats even more.

Add those two things together and you have a big ol' shit storm for as long as he's in office.
.

Interesting take, there is truth in what you are saying about why y'all lost in '16

I disagree with the strategy though

The Democrat Party needs to move back to the center and demonstrate to the working class that they still care about them and will represent policies that matter to them (which would constitute a move to the moderate center)

I just don't see that happening, I see your side doubling down on the things that made them lose

 

[Mac1958]

it has become clear that Trump and his team did not collude with the Russians; which is no surprise as this whole narrative was always a wild conspiracy theory

bottom line, all of this is just noise

what is important is the tax cuts & the health care policy

republicans WILL get a tax cut pushed through, because they KNOW they will not keep their seats in '18 if they don't

if we (conservatives) are correct - this will be good for the economy & the average person's bottom line & Trump will win reelection easily

if these tax cuts hurt the economy, Trump will lose in '20

it really is as simple as that - the media has broken faith with reality, integrity & the average American - their tantrums won't bring Trump down

it will come down to the effects on people's pocketbooks from his enacted policies

bottom line - personal finances are what drives voters

but hey; these pissing matches about 2 scoops of ice cream and wild conspiracy theories about collusion and obstruction are fun on a message board!

A couple of things:

First, the Democrats blew it and ended up on the ass end of the 2016 elections. They let the regressives speak for them and those folks annoyed enough people to hurt them. They also ran a lousy candidate. So, voilà, we get Trump, and keeping him constantly on the defensive and scaring moderate Republicans with their re-election chances was/is their only play. So far, they're doing a pretty good job with what they have to work with.

Second, Trump himself is such an easy target - the easiest in the history of historical histories, in my estimation - that he's playing right into their strategy with every off-the-cuff quip and tweet. This is a guy you don't have to caricature, because he's pretty much already there. And the press is running with it 100%, obviously, which hurts him even more, which motivates and animates the Democrats even more.

Add those two things together and you have a big ol' shit storm for as long as he's in office.
.

Interesting take, there is truth in what you are saying about why y'all lost in '16

I disagree with the strategy though

The Democrat Party needs to move back to the center and demonstrate to the working class that they still care about them and will represent policies that matter to them (which would constitute a move to the moderate center)

I just don't see that happening, I see your side doubling down on the things that made them lose

Well hell, in a perfect world, everyone would just concentrate on the issues and stop the bullshit. But I agree, that won't be happening any time soon.

Their bet is that is that the "anyone but Trump" vote will prevail this time around, and they're going to keep pounding away 24/7.

Given the size of the target, that could work - and yeah, without them doing the heavy lifting of providing the electorate with a positive agenda.
.

 

[Coyote]

it has become clear that Trump and his team did not collude with the Russians;

I like how you claim to seek reality based dialog but then open up your thread with complete and utter bullshit.

Zero evidence of collusion by Trump

Sorry you think that's bullshit

Yet. And maybe it will be found there isn't which is fine.

BUT that doesn't rule out his associates.


I can't understand how people who pushed multiple investigations into 4 years with Benghazi and cheered the brief reopening of the Clinton email investigation suddenly have cold feet at a thorough investigation of a matter that effects one of our most important democratic institutions. Seems a bit more important than " lying" about a video tape or being careless with an email server.

 

[Coyote]

it has become clear that Trump and his team did not collude with the Russians; which is no surprise as this whole narrative was always a wild conspiracy theory

bottom line, all of this is just noise

what is important is the tax cuts & the health care policy

republicans WILL get a tax cut pushed through, because they KNOW they will not keep their seats in '18 if they don't

if we (conservatives) are correct - this will be good for the economy & the average person's bottom line & Trump will win reelection easily

if these tax cuts hurt the economy, Trump will lose in '20

it really is as simple as that - the media has broken faith with reality, integrity & the average American - their tantrums won't bring Trump down

it will come down to the effects on people's pocketbooks from his enacted policies

bottom line - personal finances are what drives voters

but hey; these pissing matches about 2 scoops of ice cream and wild conspiracy theories about collusion and obstruction are fun on a message board!

A couple of things:

First, the Democrats blew it and ended up on the ass end of the 2016 elections. They let the regressives speak for them and those folks annoyed enough people to hurt them. They also ran a lousy candidate. So, voilà, we get Trump, and keeping him constantly on the defensive and scaring moderate Republicans with their re-election chances was/is their only play. So far, they're doing a pretty good job with what they have to work with.

Second, Trump himself is such an easy target - the easiest in the history of historical histories, in my estimation - that he's playing right into their strategy with every off-the-cuff quip and tweet. This is a guy you don't have to caricature, because he's pretty much already there. And the press is running with it 100%, obviously, which hurts him even more, which motivates and animates the Democrats even more.

Add those two things together and you have a big ol' shit storm for as long as he's in office.
.

Interesting take, there is truth in what you are saying about why y'all lost in '16

I disagree with the strategy though

The Democrat Party needs to move back to the center and demonstrate to the working class that they still care about them and will represent policies that matter to them (which would constitute a move to the moderate center)

I just don't see that happening, I see your side doubling down on the things that made them lose

I agree with your analysis of what Dems need to do...we will see...

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

it has become clear that Trump and his team did not collude with the Russians;

I like how you claim to seek reality based dialog but then open up your thread with complete and utter bullshit.

Zero evidence of collusion by Trump

Sorry you think that's bullshit

Yet. And maybe it will be found there isn't which is fine.

BUT that doesn't rule out his associates.


I can't understand how people who pushed multiple investigations into 4 years with Benghazi and cheered the brief reopening of the Clinton email investigation suddenly have cold feet at a thorough investigation of a matter that effects one of our most important democratic institutions. Seems a bit more important than " lying" about a video tape or being careless with an email server.

Benghazi and emails were not chasing ghosts. People died in Benghazi and nobody goes through the expense and trouble setting up their own server unless they wanted total control over what was on them and the ability to erase any incriminating evidence.

Trump and Russia? All made up from a comment he jokingly made during the debates.

 

[dcbl]

it has become clear that Trump and his team did not collude with the Russians;

I like how you claim to seek reality based dialog but then open up your thread with complete and utter bullshit.

Zero evidence of collusion by Trump

Sorry you think that's bullshit

Yet. And maybe it will be found there isn't which is fine.

BUT that doesn't rule out his associates.


I can't understand how people who pushed multiple investigations into 4 years with Benghazi and cheered the brief reopening of the Clinton email investigation suddenly have cold feet at a thorough investigation of a matter that effects one of our most important democratic institutions. Seems a bit more important than " lying" about a video tape or being careless with an email server.

I could not disagree more

The email issue was huge

The Benghazi hearings were a waste of time, I agree with that

But the Russian collusion conspiracy theory was always a red herring

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

it has become clear that Trump and his team did not collude with the Russians; which is no surprise as this whole narrative was always a wild conspiracy theory

bottom line, all of this is just noise

what is important is the tax cuts & the health care policy

republicans WILL get a tax cut pushed through, because they KNOW they will not keep their seats in '18 if they don't

if we (conservatives) are correct - this will be good for the economy & the average person's bottom line & Trump will win reelection easily

if these tax cuts hurt the economy, Trump will lose in '20

it really is as simple as that - the media has broken faith with reality, integrity & the average American - their tantrums won't bring Trump down

it will come down to the effects on people's pocketbooks from his enacted policies

bottom line - personal finances are what drives voters

but hey; these pissing matches about 2 scoops of ice cream and wild conspiracy theories about collusion and obstruction are fun on a message board!

A couple of things:

First, the Democrats blew it and ended up on the ass end of the 2016 elections. They let the regressives speak for them and those folks annoyed enough people to hurt them. They also ran a lousy candidate. So, voilà, we get Trump, and keeping him constantly on the defensive and scaring moderate Republicans with their re-election chances was/is their only play. So far, they're doing a pretty good job with what they have to work with.

Second, Trump himself is such an easy target - the easiest in the history of historical histories, in my estimation - that he's playing right into their strategy with every off-the-cuff quip and tweet. This is a guy you don't have to caricature, because he's pretty much already there. And the press is running with it 100%, obviously, which hurts him even more, which motivates and animates the Democrats even more.

Add those two things together and you have a big ol' shit storm for as long as he's in office.
.

Your comments are similar to those during the nomination process and the presidential election. Trump is kind of like Howard Stern who is a shock jock and made his millions that way.

Trump may be rude, sloppy and forgetful, but that's one of the reasons people like him; he's down to earth like most Americans and not putting on a show.

 

[Coyote]

it has become clear that Trump and his team did not collude with the Russians;

I like how you claim to seek reality based dialog but then open up your thread with complete and utter bullshit.

Zero evidence of collusion by Trump

Sorry you think that's bullshit

Yet. And maybe it will be found there isn't which is fine.

BUT that doesn't rule out his associates.


I can't understand how people who pushed multiple investigations into 4 years with Benghazi and cheered the brief reopening of the Clinton email investigation suddenly have cold feet at a thorough investigation of a matter that effects one of our most important democratic institutions. Seems a bit more important than " lying" about a video tape or being careless with an email server.

Benghazi and emails were not chasing ghosts. People died in Benghazi and nobody goes through the expense and trouble setting up their own server unless they wanted total control over what was on them and the ability to erase any incriminating evidence.

Trump and Russia? All made up from a comment he jokingly made during the debates.

It wasn't about the people who died. It wasn't about how we can prevent it in the future. Not at all. After all similar things happened under Bush, and it was reviewed appropriately. No, it was about whether or not someone "lied", in the heat of the moment as it was unfolding, about a video being the cause of it. Truly pathetic

Yet you don't think Russian hacking and attempting to influence an election, even attempting to break into the election officials systems and machines is worthy of an equivalent investigation? Seriously? Collusion is only one small part of it.