Is America Ruled By A Socialist?

[Redfish]

You don't know what you're talking about and thus should shut up until you do.

are you claiming that obama has not declared war on coal and oil?

No I'm claiming you're fucking retarded for claiming that Obama wants to kill the economy.

then why else would he block the Keystone pipeline that would create thousands of new jobs, bring more cheap energy to the USA, and reduce the price of gas for every american? why would he put huge fines on coal production that will destroy thousands of UNION jobs, raise energy prices, create energy shortages, and hurt every aspect of the economy? Why would he make it almost impossible to get a new drilling permit in the gulf?

face it, obama wants the US economy to shrink so that we will no longer be the richest nation in the world. He believes that we got rich at the expense of the rest of the world and we should be punished for that.

 

[Redfish]

You don't know what you're talking about and thus should shut up until you do.

are you claiming that obama has not declared war on coal and oil?

No, he's "declared war" on pollution and energy dependence on foreign countries.

He's putting the conserve in conservative.

LOL, you are really funny wytchey. By not allowing the use of our energy supplies he is making us MORE dependent on foregn countries. Or are you so naive that you think that solar and wind will replace oil and coal?

Pollution by energy production in the US has been greatly reduced over the last 50 years. WE are not the problem, China and India are opening new coal fired energy plants every week and they don't give a flying crap about pollution. We could be selling coal to them and putting the trade balance back in our favor------but no, obozo just wants to stick his head up his ass and pretend that the USA is the only problem in the entire world and its his duty to punish us for our greed.

 

[Redfish]

You don't know what you're talking about and thus should shut up until you do.

are you claiming that obama has not declared war on coal and oil?

No I'm claiming you're fucking retarded for claiming that Obama wants to kill the economy.

I know that hearing the truth destroys your libtardian philosophy and makes you mad. But you better get used to it, because a lot of americans are finally waking up to the fraud that is known as liberalism.

 

[FA_Q2]

obamacare

Where's the socialism in the ACA, specifically?

The end result of obamacare will be single payer government run medicine. That was always the goal. In a very short time the insurance companies will be put out of business because people will realize that paying the penalty will be cheaper than buying insurance.

Then a fixed % of your income will be taken from you to fund another huge inefficient government beaurocracy, the quality of healthcare will decline and you idiots will have to live with what you asked for.

the other probable result will be that doctors will set up private health co-ops the you will pay a membership fee to belong to and will get better care than via the govt. Those who can afford the co-ops will get good care and the rest of you will be standing in line for obozocare.

welcome to the world of obama---------------idiots!

So, you claim that Obamacare is socialist (while ignoring the points that I made earlier on that very subject) because of what you assume that it is going to become.

I think you have been duped tbh. I don’t think single payer is coming anymore and in reality, single payer would be even better than Obamacare even though that is also terrible. The payoff to big corporations in Obamacare is not going to turn socialist anytime soon, it is more likely to become more statist with ever increasing payoff to those companies and an ever increasing relationship with the government (with reduced competition as a result). What you fear, the program going to a socialist direction, is actually not nearly as bad as what is really occurring – Obamacare completely at the mercy of a corporate and governmental alliance that makes neither culpable for the failures of the system.

 

[FA_Q2]

PoliticalChic needs some help. She can't name any government programs/institutions in the US that fit the definition of socialism (despite her repeated rants about socialism).

Can any of you anti-socialism types name them?

Give us a list.

Social security, Medicare, welfare, food stamps blah blah blah. You get the idea.

Essentially, any program that is taking from people that it has no intention of servicing, at least in relation to the amount taken or if anything is taken at all. The convoluted tax code and much of the regulatory structure would fit in there as well.

You might even be able to fit many of the laws that dictate social behavior as socialist ideal as well. Those laws that we are discussing in other threads that are victimless use the same basis of ideology as socialist economic principals.

Things like police, fire protection, roads and military are NOT socialism. There is a marked difference in programs that fill a governmental responsibility and ones that purposefully exist to take from one to support others or dictate social interactions. I realize that you have not made that claim here, I am posting it because I want to avoid the inevitable reference to those services now as many threads have gone down that road.

So you eliminate SS, Medicare, Medicaid (that you left out), welfare (I assume you mean cash assistance) food stamps...

...how does America get better when all of that is gone?

Oh, btw, the great anti-socialist author of this thread threw a fit elsewhere when I suggested she wanted to get rid of every one of those programs, one more example of her boundless confusion lolol.

I don’t care what PC stated in another thread, we are not discussing PC the poster but rather the singular post that PC started this thread with. In that regard, you do realize that I have never advocated for the elimination of all socialism within the government. There are needs that must be addressed. I have advocated for a rather fundamental change in many of those programs that would remove the socialism though but that is for another time.

You asked for a list, I gave you a partial one. Then you turned that into an attack against straw man claims that I have not made and that do not have any impact on the thread at all. BTW – have you bothered to read any of my posts here. Do you even know what stance I take on the OP’s claims?

 

[Redfish]

Where's the socialism in the ACA, specifically?

The end result of obamacare will be single payer government run medicine. That was always the goal. In a very short time the insurance companies will be put out of business because people will realize that paying the penalty will be cheaper than buying insurance.

Then a fixed % of your income will be taken from you to fund another huge inefficient government beaurocracy, the quality of healthcare will decline and you idiots will have to live with what you asked for.

the other probable result will be that doctors will set up private health co-ops the you will pay a membership fee to belong to and will get better care than via the govt. Those who can afford the co-ops will get good care and the rest of you will be standing in line for obozocare.

welcome to the world of obama---------------idiots!

So, you claim that Obamacare is socialist (while ignoring the points that I made earlier on that very subject) because of what you assume that it is going to become.

I think you have been duped tbh. I don’t think single payer is coming anymore and in reality, single payer would be even better than Obamacare even though that is also terrible. The payoff to big corporations in Obamacare is not going to turn socialist anytime soon, it is more likely to become more statist with ever increasing payoff to those companies and an ever increasing relationship with the government (with reduced competition as a result). What you fear, the program going to a socialist direction, is actually not nearly as bad as what is really occurring – Obamacare completely at the mercy of a corporate and governmental alliance that makes neither culpable for the failures of the system.

we should know who is right in a couple of years. I think we will have a medical system like canada or UK very soon. I think we will also see a lot of medical co-ops that you can join for a monthly charge and get better care than the govt system will offer.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Social security, Medicare, welfare, food stamps blah blah blah. You get the idea.

Essentially, any program that is taking from people that it has no intention of servicing, at least in relation to the amount taken or if anything is taken at all. The convoluted tax code and much of the regulatory structure would fit in there as well.

You might even be able to fit many of the laws that dictate social behavior as socialist ideal as well. Those laws that we are discussing in other threads that are victimless use the same basis of ideology as socialist economic principals.

Things like police, fire protection, roads and military are NOT socialism. There is a marked difference in programs that fill a governmental responsibility and ones that purposefully exist to take from one to support others or dictate social interactions. I realize that you have not made that claim here, I am posting it because I want to avoid the inevitable reference to those services now as many threads have gone down that road.

So you eliminate SS, Medicare, Medicaid (that you left out), welfare (I assume you mean cash assistance) food stamps...

...how does America get better when all of that is gone?

Oh, btw, the great anti-socialist author of this thread threw a fit elsewhere when I suggested she wanted to get rid of every one of those programs, one more example of her boundless confusion lolol.

I don’t care what PC stated in another thread, we are not discussing PC the poster but rather the singular post that PC started this thread with. In that regard, you do realize that I have never advocated for the elimination of all socialism within the government. There are needs that must be addressed. I have advocated for a rather fundamental change in many of those programs that would remove the socialism though but that is for another time.

You asked for a list, I gave you a partial one. Then you turned that into an attack against straw man claims that I have not made and that do not have any impact on the thread at all. BTW – have you bothered to read any of my posts here. Do you even know what stance I take on the OP’s claims?

So you're one more poster who wants to piss and moan about 'socialism' but who doesn't have the courage to say he wants to get rid of socialism.

 

[NYcarbineer]

are you claiming that obama has not declared war on coal and oil?

No I'm claiming you're fucking retarded for claiming that Obama wants to kill the economy.

I know that hearing the truth destroys your libtardian philosophy and makes you mad. But you better get used to it, because a lot of americans are finally waking up to the fraud that is known as liberalism.

That's right, run away from your claim.

You think that President Obama wants to kill the economy, which if it happens will be blamed on him and the Democrats,

and which will assure that a Republican is elected president and the Republicans take the Senate.

That is your idea of Obama's grand plan, to guarantee that when he leaves the GOP takes over the government.

Are you an idiot for real? Can you possibly be this stupid? Or are you just playing stupid like some five year old who's trying to annoy the grown ups?

 

[NYcarbineer]

are you claiming that obama has not declared war on coal and oil?

No, he's "declared war" on pollution and energy dependence on foreign countries.

He's putting the conserve in conservative.

LOL, you are really funny wytchey. By not allowing the use of our energy supplies he is making us MORE dependent on foregn countries. .

Here's more evidence of how embarassingly stupid you are:

The shale revolution sweeping the U.S. helped push oil production in the world's largest economy to a record last year, BP said in a report this week, underscoring expectations of the nation's energy independence.


In a statistical review of energy demand in 2012, the U.S., the world's third-largest oil producer, said energy production rose 1.3 percent to 15 percent of the global total. A bounty of shale and natural gas helped energy supplies set record for the third straight year, according to BP.
U.S. production of natural gas surged nearly 5 percent last year, BP said. It is now the largest producer of the gas, with 20 percent of the global total, as well as the biggest consumer of both natural gas and crude oil.

The U.S. saw "the biggest increase in oil and gas production of all the countries in the world," BP Chief Economist Christof Ruhl told CNBC's "Squawk Box" this week. "This was the biggest increase in oil production in the entire history" of the country, he said, adding that much of that was on the back of the shale boom.

US Energy Production Growing by Leaps and Bounds: BP

Stop making an ass of yourself. Please.

 

[Plasmaball]

so·cial·ism noun \ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm\

Definition of SOCIALISM

1
: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2
a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3
: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done
Socialism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

OK PC, using the definition of socialism, please gives us precise examples that match up with the definition. And please, no cut and paste right wing talking points.

Thank you.

1. "OK PC, using the definition of socialism, ...."
Yours, of course, is the sophomoric obfuscation used to hide the facts.
Fully expected from the inept.

I'll stick with the well-constructed OP above, which includes the words of the socialist President, himself.




2. "....please gives us precise examples that match up with the definition."

Why is it that the most effete of individuals find it necessary to resort to "us"....when they mean "me"?

Oh...I've answered my own question!

“Life is a mystery, everyone must stand alone.” Madonna.





3. "And please, no cut and paste right wing talking points."

As far as you influencing my style…I am immovable, like General Jackson’s Virginians at First Manassas: a veritable stone wall.
If you only had an acquaintance with history…you’d understand that.

There may come a time when you can dictate how and what I post.....but, when that happens, I'll probably be ice skating in Hell.



Based on the caliber of post, you should concentrate on your full-time job, Garden Gnome.

All this drivel because you cant answer the question.
What a hack.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Isn't Social Security a prime example, if not the best example, of U.S. socialism?

Anyone dispute that?

 

[thanatos144]

Isn't Social Security a prime example, if not the best example, of U.S. socialism?

Anyone dispute that?

its bankrupt and destroying the country now how was that a good thing?

Welcome to my nightmare

 

[Redfish]

No, he's "declared war" on pollution and energy dependence on foreign countries.

He's putting the conserve in conservative.

LOL, you are really funny wytchey. By not allowing the use of our energy supplies he is making us MORE dependent on foregn countries. .

Here's more evidence of how embarassingly stupid you are:

The shale revolution sweeping the U.S. helped push oil production in the world's largest economy to a record last year, BP said in a report this week, underscoring expectations of the nation's energy independence.


In a statistical review of energy demand in 2012, the U.S., the world's third-largest oil producer, said energy production rose 1.3 percent to 15 percent of the global total. A bounty of shale and natural gas helped energy supplies set record for the third straight year, according to BP.
U.S. production of natural gas surged nearly 5 percent last year, BP said. It is now the largest producer of the gas, with 20 percent of the global total, as well as the biggest consumer of both natural gas and crude oil.

The U.S. saw "the biggest increase in oil and gas production of all the countries in the world," BP Chief Economist Christof Ruhl told CNBC's "Squawk Box" this week. "This was the biggest increase in oil production in the entire history" of the country, he said, adding that much of that was on the back of the shale boom.

US Energy Production Growing by Leaps and Bounds: BP

Stop making an ass of yourself. Please.

all done on private land, you really should check your sources before making a fool of yourself

 

[Redfish]

No I'm claiming you're fucking retarded for claiming that Obama wants to kill the economy.

I know that hearing the truth destroys your libtardian philosophy and makes you mad. But you better get used to it, because a lot of americans are finally waking up to the fraud that is known as liberalism.

That's right, run away from your claim.

You think that President Obama wants to kill the economy, which if it happens will be blamed on him and the Democrats,

and which will assure that a Republican is elected president and the Republicans take the Senate.

That is your idea of Obama's grand plan, to guarantee that when he leaves the GOP takes over the government.

Are you an idiot for real? Can you possibly be this stupid? Or are you just playing stupid like some five year old who's trying to annoy the grown ups?

LOL,,,, think it through. if the economy is destroyed a republican may be elected, but the damage will be so severe that it can't be fixed in 4 or 8 years, so the GOP will get the blame and the dem/libs will rule forever--------at least thats the obama plan.

 

[Redfish]

Isn't Social Security a prime example, if not the best example, of U.S. socialism?

Anyone dispute that?

yes, and it was a pretty good plan until LBJ stole the SS funds and merged them with the general fund to camoflage his debt.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Isn't Social Security a prime example, if not the best example, of U.S. socialism?

Anyone dispute that?

yes, and it was a pretty good plan until LBJ stole the SS funds and merged them with the general fund to camoflage his debt.

So Social Security is socialism,

and the president who did more to preserve and perpetuate that socialism was Ronald Reagan,

in 1983,

and you people call Obama the socialist.

lol

 

[JoeNormal]

are you claiming that obama has not declared war on coal and oil?

No I'm claiming you're fucking retarded for claiming that Obama wants to kill the economy.

then why else would he block the Keystone pipeline that would create thousands of new jobs, bring more cheap energy to the USA, and reduce the price of gas for every american? why would he put huge fines on coal production that will destroy thousands of UNION jobs, raise energy prices, create energy shortages, and hurt every aspect of the economy? Why would he make it almost impossible to get a new drilling permit in the gulf?

face it, obama wants the US economy to shrink so that we will no longer be the richest nation in the world. He believes that we got rich at the expense of the rest of the world and we should be punished for that.

The Keystone pipeline might create a few jobs but it would be an environmental disaster. Probably why the Canadians want to pump that shit all the way to the gulf. As for reducing the price of gas in America, dream on. Oil is a global commodity and its price fluctuates on global supply. This wouldn't even make a dent.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I know that hearing the truth destroys your libtardian philosophy and makes you mad. But you better get used to it, because a lot of americans are finally waking up to the fraud that is known as liberalism.

That's right, run away from your claim.

You think that President Obama wants to kill the economy, which if it happens will be blamed on him and the Democrats,

and which will assure that a Republican is elected president and the Republicans take the Senate.

That is your idea of Obama's grand plan, to guarantee that when he leaves the GOP takes over the government.

Are you an idiot for real? Can you possibly be this stupid? Or are you just playing stupid like some five year old who's trying to annoy the grown ups?

LOL,,,, think it through. if the economy is destroyed a republican may be elected, but the damage will be so severe that it can't be fixed in 4 or 8 years, so the GOP will get the blame and the dem/libs will rule forever--------at least thats the obama plan.

I know you don't want to be taken seriously, so, so be it. I won't.

 

[NYcarbineer]

LOL, you are really funny wytchey. By not allowing the use of our energy supplies he is making us MORE dependent on foregn countries. .

Here's more evidence of how embarassingly stupid you are:

The shale revolution sweeping the U.S. helped push oil production in the world's largest economy to a record last year, BP said in a report this week, underscoring expectations of the nation's energy independence.


In a statistical review of energy demand in 2012, the U.S., the world's third-largest oil producer, said energy production rose 1.3 percent to 15 percent of the global total. A bounty of shale and natural gas helped energy supplies set record for the third straight year, according to BP.
U.S. production of natural gas surged nearly 5 percent last year, BP said. It is now the largest producer of the gas, with 20 percent of the global total, as well as the biggest consumer of both natural gas and crude oil.

The U.S. saw "the biggest increase in oil and gas production of all the countries in the world," BP Chief Economist Christof Ruhl told CNBC's "Squawk Box" this week. "This was the biggest increase in oil production in the entire history" of the country, he said, adding that much of that was on the back of the shale boom.

US Energy Production Growing by Leaps and Bounds: BP

Stop making an ass of yourself. Please.

all done on private land, you really should check your sources before making a fool of yourself

That's both not true and irrelevant. So you hit a double.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Lol. So Obama wants to destroy the entire economy and the proof is...he won't approve of one project. The Keystone pipeline. Apparently if the Keystone is approved the entire economy will be great from a couple thousand jobs in the land of 300 million people.
Lol