Is AI based on the "Infinite Monkey Theorem"?

[toobfreak]

Since we don't fully understand the human brain, we're incapable of creating something equal to it. You're more intelligent than any machine.

Well, at least you see that much. Remember, man created AI, AI did not create man. No, all I'm saying is that AI isn't capable of true creativity, originality. It has the choice of either combining bits and pieces of other things already in existence to invent something similar, or in creating something through random variation and selection, it has nothing to do with religion.

Now, that does not preclude the possibility that in the future, AI will not eventually evolve to where it improves itself to create original, truly creative thinking, and therein lies the danger of AI---- not what we give it, but what AI figures out and gives itself.

Eventually, AI will be so far ahead of mankind in terms of volume and speed of mental processes that we will be hopelessly servile to it. Man will grow dependent on it and will stop looking to improve himself, instead rather, to rely on the machine.

 

[alang1216]

Well, at least you see that much. Remember, man created AI, AI did not create man. No, all I'm saying is that AI isn't capable of true creativity, originality. It has the choice of either combining bits and pieces of other things already in existence to invent something similar, or in creating something through random variation and selection, it has nothing to do with religion.

Now, that does not preclude the possibility that in the future, AI will not eventually evolve to where it improves itself to create original, truly creative thinking, and therein lies the danger of AI---- not what we give it, but what AI figures out and gives itself.

Eventually, AI will be so far ahead of mankind in terms of volume and speed of mental processes that we will be hopelessly servile to it. Man will grow dependent on it and will stop looking to improve himself, instead rather, to rely on the machine.

Can you give me an example of something created by a man that was NOT the result of either combining bits and pieces of other things already in existence to invent something similar, or in creating something through random variation and selection?

 

[toobfreak]

Can you give me an example of something created by a man that was NOT the result of either combining bits and pieces of other things already in existence to invent something similar, or in creating something through random variation and selection?

Yes.

 

[alang1216]

Yes.

Yes meaning no? Not a very intelligent or creative response. Or are you just trying to make AI look better?

 

[toobfreak]

Yes meaning no? Not a very intelligent or creative response. Or are you just trying to make AI look better?

No. Sorry, I only put into replies the same thought and effort as I get out of the person's questions, and over the years, you've been nothing but a troll, so don't expect any effort out of me now.

 

[kyzr]

Well, at least you see that much. Remember, man created AI, AI did not create man. No, all I'm saying is that AI isn't capable of true creativity, originality. It has the choice of either combining bits and pieces of other things already in existence to invent something similar, or in creating something through random variation and selection, it has nothing to do with religion.

Now, that does not preclude the possibility that in the future, AI will not eventually evolve to where it improves itself to create original, truly creative thinking, and therein lies the danger of AI---- not what we give it, but what AI figures out and gives itself.

Eventually, AI will be so far ahead of mankind in terms of volume and speed of mental processes that we will be hopelessly servile to it. Man will grow dependent on it and will stop looking to improve himself, instead rather, to rely on the machine.

There was a Star trek episode where a beautiful woman put a special helmet on so the AI could impart the knowledge required to perform a complex task. Only women could wear the helmet, the men were too dumb and only used for procreation.

So that plot was thought of back in 1969.

 

[toobfreak]

There was a Star trek episode where a beautiful woman put a special helmet on so the AI could impart the knowledge required to perform a complex task. Only women could wear the helmet, the men were too dumb and only used for procreation. So that plot was thought of back in 1969.

That was Spock's Brain in the 3rd season. The women lived below in comfort and the men lived above, outside in the cold wearing skins only used for manual labor.

And no, men could wear it too--- just that the helmet worked better on them than other people because it was designed for their brains. McCoy used the helmet to learn how to put Spock's brain back but the effect wore off faster.

Fortunately, Spock was there to tell McCoy how to finish the job. It was a typically weak 3rd season episode. Without the helmet, the rest of the time, the women were complete morons too. Like you said, the only thing on the planet with any intelligence was the computer (I think they called the helmet the "Teacher.")

 

[Mushroom]

Chat GPT is merely coded to search for answers and to give them in a way that seems intelligent.

And I can't tell how often I have seen it give answers that are completely nonsensical. It really is just a search engine, and not a very good one.

 

[toobfreak]

And I can't tell how often I have seen it give answers that are completely nonsensical. It really is just a search engine, and not a very good one.

I'll take your word as I absolutely eschew the use of any of that crap. Anything but a Luddite, it is because I understand the technology too well that it revolts me so much. If they ever have robots running around talking to people offering to do stuff like a person (in lieu of an actual person) and one comes up to me, I would probably smash it.

I actually turned down a prominent position for a robotics company back in 1996. Well, to be perfectly honest, it also would have been a pretty far drive to work every day, too.

Aside from that, I'm simply not in the public loop. Someone tried to prove me wrong and impress me, so they used Chat or the like to try to look me up. Basically, what it came up with to describe who I was, was to put together a compilation of segments of the very limited things I've said and talked about, JUST ON THIS FORUM!

 

[trevorjohnson83]

start a monkey typewriter business
teach the monkey the 'keys'
pound and break and defecate on them
then monkey will be at ease

 

[scruffy]

I'll take your word as I absolutely eschew the use of any of that crap. Anything but a Luddite, it is because I understand the technology too well that it revolts me so much. If they ever have robots running around talking to people offering to do stuff like a person (in lieu of an actual person) and one comes up to me, I would probably smash it.

I actually turned down a prominent position for a robotics company back in 1996. Well, to be perfectly honest, it also would have been a pretty far drive to work every day, too.

Aside from that, I'm simply not in the public loop. Someone tried to prove me wrong and impress me, so they used Chat or the like to try to look me up. Basically, what it came up with to describe who I was, was to put together a compilation of segments of the very limited things I've said and talked about, JUST ON THIS FORUM!

The business model for robotics is going to be like a Chinese menu.

You want a robot that can do the dishes? 200 bucks.

You want a robot that can defend itself? 400 bucks.

You want a robot that can tutor your kids in math? Thousand bucks.

 

[toobfreak]

The business model for robotics is going to be like a Chinese menu.

You are not encouraging me!

You want a robot that can defend itself? 400 bucks.

That I'd like to test. I've been designing and building stuff all my life and I've yet to meet the machine whose vulnerability I could not detect.

You want a robot that can tutor your kids in math? Thousand bucks.

I love it. Kids cannot do math as it is. I had a "bright" kid's neighbor a few years back who could not understand how a slide rule works! Did not understand how a 2 could represent a .2, 2, 20, or 200. Absolutely no concept of numerical relationships. Told me: "Thank God for calculators!" There were no calculators when I was in school, it was all pencil and paper. A calculator would have gotten you failed out of the class. Can you imagine if machines take over and start teaching?

Mind you, its not the technology. If it could be used benignly for the good of man, it would be fantastic! But I know all too well that while some of it might go that way, the real aim of AI is NOT intended to be benign.

 

[scruffy]

Can you imagine if machines take over and start teaching?

Machines aren't unionized. They can reach over and slap the student upside the head without consequences. What are they going to do, arrest the robot?

 

[kyzr]

That was Spock's Brain in the 3rd season. The women lived below in comfort and the men lived above, outside in the cold wearing skins only used for manual labor.
And no, men could wear it too--- just that the helmet worked better on them than other people because it was designed for their brains. McCoy used the helmet to learn how to put Spock's brain back but the effect wore off faster.
Fortunately, Spock was there to tell McCoy how to finish the job. It was a typically weak 3rd season episode. Without the helmet, the rest of the time, the women were complete morons too. Like you said, the only thing on the planet with any intelligence was the computer (I think they called the helmet the "Teacher.")

Good memory of Star Trek episodes! I have CRS disease, "can't remember shit".

My concern is that after AI becomes mature, it could become like "Eagle Eye" and do a hostile takeover of everything,
The Matrix and Terminators are what scares the crap out of me looking into the future of "self-generating AI".
The world's economic system is going to change after AI and robots take most jobs.
Another movie was "Elysium" where the 1% lived in space away from the unwashed.

Do you have anything positive to say about the evolution of AI?

 

[Mushroom]

I'll take your word as I absolutely eschew the use of any of that crap. Anything but a Luddite, it is because I understand the technology too well that it revolts me so much.

And I am the exact same way, I am the opposite of a Luddite.

To give an idea, I started programming COBOL on keypunch cards, and I see this as nothing but a more advanced form of Eliza that I played with about five decades ago.

And really no different than Jeeves was over two decades ago. Or that strange one that Microsoft had briefly about 15 years ago. It's just another form of search engine, and it in no way knows if the information is real or not, it just responds with what it finds in the algorithm.

And the funny thing is about all of this, I see a repeat of the "Dot Com" bubble. In the early days of the Public Internet, all kinds of companies jumped on board promising everything that people wanted to hear. And investments poured into those early companies, fueling almost insane levels of investment. And it looked great for all investors, until it was realized that most of them were really not making anything of use and the entire thing collapsed in 2000.

I also remember the "Computer Bubble" of the early 1980s. When everybody from Mattel and Coleco (a leather company) to the BBC, Casio, Timex and Packard-Bell (primarily a TV and radio manufacturer) jumped in on the bandwagon. And by 1985 most of those were gone.

I have seen several bubbles like this, and I see nothing different in this one. All the hallmarks are there. An industry that very few people really understand, with the rails being lubricated by a lot of hype and promises that is the future and there is money to be made. And completely ignoring all of the signs that it's all just smoke and mirrors.

Want to have a laugh? Ask AI for recipes for cooking that involve gasoline. I can pretty much guarantee you will not get much in response. That is because most of the people acting like Professor Marvel behind the scenes had to jump in and take over. Because no matter how much they tried to steer AI into answering that there are no recipes that use gasoline, AI kept insisting that you could use it as an ingredient in cooking.

But go ahead and try it. Both Google and Bing have completely disabled AI response to "recipes with gasoline". Because no matter how hard the programmers behind the scenes tried to instruct it that you can not use gasoline as an ingredient, AI insisted that you could. Kinda like AI insisting that using glue keeps cheese on pizza, and eating rocks is good for your health.

Earlier this year they disabled a significant number of AI responses for President Trump for that reason. AI really is just a search engine, and the more and more polarizing news articles and web sites that popped up relating to the President, the more skewed and biased results the AI was spitting out until it reached the point they had to turn it off.

I remember jokingly doing searches about a year ago for "Is Trump evil" and "Is Trump Hitler" and got pretty much the expected AI responses. Now, putting that in gives you no AI response at all. That is because the people behind it know that their fancy search engine is broken, so they have disabled it.

And in this modern era where people chose to believe lies and ignore facts, I guess AI is their new messiah. It will tell them whatever they want to hear, and will confirm most of what they want to believe.

Honestly, I laugh at those that believe in AI. And I shake my head and feel sad at those that run to AI to answer everything, because it tells me they have completely turned off their brains and are likely living deep in a confirmation bubble.

 

[Mushroom]

And the thing is, those of us that actually know how search algorithms work also know how they can be tricked.

This used to be known as "Google Bombing", and there were some rather well known ones about 15-20 years ago. Such as typing into Google "Famous French Victories" and getting this result:

There are dozens of cases like this one, but it just goes to show how AI is just another search algorithm. It is not intelligent, and it can be made to lie because it is only searching for things it already has in the system. And it can not differentiate between truth and fiction.



And Google Bombing is not new, and not dead. There is a team at Google that operates like Professor Marvel behind the scenes to detect and derail attempts at doing it. And the solution is essentially their forcing their own engine to discard search results and ignore its own algorithm. The same way they step in and disable AI results when they know its broken.

Like Toobfreak, I distrust AI for the exact reason that I know how it works. And I have been watching in disgust in the last year or so as the absolute flood of low and no effort AI has been destroying what were once good platforms like Youtube.

 

[toobfreak]

Good memory of Star Trek episodes! I have CRS disease, "can't remember shit".

Hell, back in my prime, I probably could have told you the production number and author of the episode. But I do remember that they stole Spock's brain to be their new "Controller" after the old one finally wore out where they kept a brain in a machine and its autonomic functions are what regulate and control all of the heating and other plant facilities that run the planet that allow such dumb bitches to stay so dumb most of the time.

My concern is that after AI becomes mature, it could become like "Eagle Eye" and do a hostile takeover of everything,
The Matrix and Terminators are what scares the crap out of me looking into the future of "self-generating AI".
The world's economic system is going to change after AI and robots take most jobs.
Do you have anything positive to say about the evolution of AI?

AI could be wonderful if used benignly for the good of man, but history is our teacher of how AI will be turned into a weapon used to control society and finally, as a weapon of war to kill millions, all for the good of a tiny few.

If you want to see the real danger of where AI is certain to eventually go, watch an old 70s movie called: 'Colossus, The Forbin Project.' If you haven't seen it, it is an awesome sci-fi movie worthy of the big screen yet somehow remains poorly known. Seriously, it is so good, just buy the DVD. If you are not thrilled with the movie, I'll refund the price.

 

[toobfreak]

And really no different than Jeeves was over two decades ago. Or that strange one that Microsoft had briefly about 15 years ago. It's just another form of search engine, and it in no way knows if the information is real or not, it just responds with what it finds in the algorithm.

It will grow into more than that eventually, but yes, that is pretty much what it is now, and pretty much all that will be made available to the casual, daily user like you and I.

I also remember the "Computer Bubble" of the early 1980s. When everybody from Mattel and Coleco (a leather company) to the BBC, Casio, Timex and Packard-Bell (primarily a TV and radio manufacturer) jumped in on the bandwagon.

My first desktop was a Packard Bell. It had a 500 MB HDD. I also had a Sinclair.

AI really is just a search engine, and the more and more polarizing news articles and web sites that popped up relating to the President, the more skewed and biased results the AI was spitting out until it reached the point they had to turn it off.

I will at least admit that search engines have improved a lot. Time was not that long ago that search results often sucked and you had to hit upon just the right keywords to get good hits if any at all.

In the final analysis, AI for now is only as good as the humans who built and programmed it. The problem with most people today, they really haven't a true appreciation for just how sophisticated these systems really are, one of my instructors in electronic engineering was one of the builders of ENIAC, and I started out in computer programming science using a KIM II (keyboard interface module where you entered code in BASIC), and FORTRAN.

Today, kids are like a deer in the headlights if you hand them a slide rule. AI will make most of human society into nothing but button-pushing idiots like The Jetsons, completely dependent on machines to run and direct their lives. When the power goes down and none of the machines are directing their lives, these people will be lost and clueless.

People have been trying to warn us of the dangers of letting machines take over our lives for more than 75 years.

 

[Nobody911]

Lol. AIs don't act like monkeys. AIs are trained, but monkeys are not. Just common sense!

 

[Mushroom]

AIs are trained, but monkeys are not.

Oh nonsense.

Put a monkey in front of a bowl full of gasoline, and I bet it is smart enough by pure instinct to tip it over and walk away. Pure instinct will tell it that is not something to consume.

Yet AI must be specially lobotomized in order to stop telling people to not use gasoline in cooking. No matter how much "training" they have tried, they still can't teach AI to not suggest gasoline in cooking.

At least they were finally able to convince AI that putting glue on a pizza was a good way to keep the cheese from sliding off was not a good idea.