Iran to sign deal

/----/ It's so cute how you root for the mullahs and IRG to the end. If you studied history that happened before this morning, you'd know that while she was in its death throes, Germany launched a massive attack right before it collapsed.
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/----/ It's so cute how you root for the mullahs and IRG to the end. If you studied history that happened before this morning, you'd know that while she was in its death throes, Germany launched a massive attack right before it collapsed.
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I am sure this thing is going as planned. If we get our way we will have $300B less in cash and $100B less in military equipment, 13 fewer soldiers, a strait that was open before, a more militant Iranian leader younger and healthier than his dad, and still no resolution on nuclear material but the best case is the same agreement on nuclear stuff the JCPOA had under Obama.

What would we have won?
 
/----/ It's so cute how you root for the mullahs and IRG to the end. If you studied history that happened before this morning, you'd know that while she was in its death throes, Germany launched a massive attack right before it collapsed.

it took Germany six more months to collapse, and only then because the Red Army was pushing into Germany from the East.

We don't even have boots on the ground.

The problem Trump has is that, unlike Bush against Iraq, he didn't do any of the Prep work you need to do start a war. He didn't get the American people on board, line up allies to support the effort, or deploy divisions to the theater.

Bombing has proved ineffective. Quite the contrary, it's galvanized the Iranian people behind the regime.
 
It appears Iran is on its last leg, hanging on by a thread. Of course they are famous for breaking every deal they ever signed. Time will tell but it looks like it’s over.


Iran’s supreme leader, Mojtaba Khamenei, would have to approve any final deal with the U.S. through secret courier networks while remaining in hiding as a "designated target," counterterrorism experts said Tuesday.

The unprecedented arrangement, they claimed, means Washington is negotiating a high-stakes accord with an entirely invisible counterparty, with a potential memorandum signed by a regime leader and a "designated target" who can never publicly show his face.
LOL. Fox "News."
 
it took Germany six more months to collapse, and only then because the Red Army was pushing into Germany from the East.

We don't even have boots on the ground.

The problem Trump has is that, unlike Bush against Iraq, he did"
n't do any of the Prep work you need to do start a war. He didn't get the American people on board, line up allies to support the effort, or deploy divisions to the theater.

Bombing has proved ineffective. Quite the contrary, it's galvanized the Iranian people behind the regime.
/----/ "Bombing has proved ineffective. Quite the contrary, it's galvanized the Iranian people behind the regime."
Thank you, Bagdad Bob.
 
I am sure this thing is going as planned. If we get our way we will have $300B less in cash and $100B less in military equipment, 13 fewer soldiers, a strait that was open before, a more militant Iranian leader younger and healthier than his dad, and still no resolution on nuclear material but the best case is the same agreement on nuclear stuff the JCPOA had under Obama.

What would we have won?
/-----/ No nukes and ICBMs in Iran and a free people. Of course you don't care about that.
 
/----/ "Bombing has proved ineffective. Quite the contrary, it's galvanized the Iranian people behind the regime."
Thank you, Bagdad Bob.

You are the guy who keeps pushing fake pictures of Iranian protests that either happened years ago or in other countries.

I'm pointing out the obvious. Most people work under the premise of "He's a jerk, but he's our jerk!"

That's why even though a majority voted against Dubya in 2000, the country rallied behind him after the 9/11 attacks.

(Unfortunately, he abused the shit out of that support getting us into a war on a lie, but that's another discussion).

Why do you think Iran hasn't launched a terror attack within the US? I'm sure they have agents here. But they know that would rally people behind Trump, so they won't do it.

They'll just let $5.00 gasoline bring Trump down.
 
/-----/ No nukes and ICBMs in Iran and a free people. Of course you don't care about that.
We arent getting regime change. That ship has sailed so what are you talking about?

And any nuclear agreement will not be better than the JCPOA... you may claim it is.. but it will be about the same agreement or worse except all we lost to get here.

Again... what will we have won?
 
/-----/ No nukes and ICBMs in Iran and a free people. Of course you don't care about that.

Except that Iran is probably more motivated to get a nuke now than they were before.

A nuke would mean that Israel and the US wouldn't try this shit again.

Khamenei agreed to give up his nukes, and we murdered him.
Saddam agreed to give up his nukes, and we murdered him.
Gadaffy agreed to give up his nukes, and we murdered him.

Kim Jong Il refused to give up his nukes and died peacefully in his bed, handing power to his son.

A Nuclear Iran is inevitable now.

As for the Iranians being "Free", that's absurd. Iran has elections. They didn't have elections under the Shah. The problem isn't that they aren't free, it's that they aren't making choices you'd like.
 
Opinions and perspectives, yours seems from the Left.
And?
Not really. From Politifact:
  • The U.S. could argue that a particular attack is justified because the infrastructure had a dual civilian-military use and that the benefit from the enemy’s military setback was greater than the harm to civilians.
  • U.S. officials are unlikely to be prosecuted for any alleged war crimes because neither the U.S. nor Iran is a member of the International Criminal Court.
You seem to have no problems with potential war crimes. That is interesting.
So what? The Gulf states are ready for regime change in Iran after being attacked.
I was not referring to the Gulf states.
So 3 or 4 months is plausible as the CIA said, as long as Trump keeps the blockade and sanctions
If being an operative word.
You don't tell allies who leak intel and risk US lives.
Then do not complain when allies decline to assist an unnecessary attack.
Trump asked for assistance from "allies" but when they declined, he said we don't need them, not really a flip-flop, he knows the EU is suffering more from the closure of Hormuz than the US is. Its up to them when Hormuz opens.
From my reading the decision to open the Strait lies with Iran.
When Iran was weeks away from nuclear weapons a decision had to be made.
Except that it was not weeks away from nuclear weapons. And Trump stated last June that "Iran’s key nuclear enrichment facilities have been completely and totally obliterated" .


Stop Iran's nuclear weapons program or not. The failed JCPOA tried, but had a time limit that expired allowing Iran to legally develop nukes, as assisted by Obama's gift of $56,000,000,000.
And while that agreement was in place Iran kept to it. From here: Fact Sheet: The Iran Deal, Then and Now - Center for Arms Control and Non-Proliferation

As a part of the deal, Iran also agreed to implement the Additional Protocol, which is an expanded set of requirements for information and access to assist the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) in its task of confirming that states are using nuclear material for solely peaceful purposes.

Once Trump decided to withdraw from that agreement in 2018 Iran had no reason to continue to abide by it.
The higher gas prices and fertilizer prices is a small price to pay for stopping Iran's nuclear weapons and ICBM development programs.
That is debatable.
The basic question is: "do you want Iran to have nuclear weapons and ICBMs or not?" Y/N Do you?
North Korea has them. Again from my reading the Iranian regime's viewpoint appears to be that having a nuclear deterrent prevents attacks by the USA.
What "situation" is the USA in? We buried Iran's enriched uranium with Midnight Hammer.
Then your statement that Iran was weeks away from nuclear weapons is erroneous.
We have a blockade on Iran's oil so Iran has no revenue.
It has some revenue and the Iranian regime does not care how much suffering it inflicts on the populace.
If we want to bomb Iran's bridges, powerplants, and oil infrastructure there is nothing stopping us.
You seem quite at ease with the USA committing potential war crimes.

Furthermore, can you be certain that military personnel would simply obey orders? Individuals were hanged at Nuremberg for doing that.
Trump is being very patient with them, but I'm sure his patience has limits.
History shows that intensive bombing has never achieved regime change. Neither Germany nor the Allies could achieve that in WW2 and it did not work for the USA in Vietnam either.
 
If this drags on for three or four months, we are going to plunge into a global recession.
The stock market doesn't think so. You need to look past the closure of Hormuz.
The Allies didn't assist because we are in the wrong here.
wrecking the global economy because Trump listened to Bibi's lies is not a good policy.
Stopping Iran's nuclear program is a good policy, its what the flawed JCPOA tried to do but failed miserably.
As for our "allies" let them deal with the closure of Hormuz.
Iran has been "Weeks away from Nuclear Weapons" for 30 years, according to the Head Jew. I don't think even he believes it.
It's not a gift when you return something that belongs to you. If I steal your lawnmower, I'm not giving you a gift when I return it.
Iran had enough enriched uranium for 11 bombs, if the Ayatollah said "build it".
Well, a whole lot of flaws in that argument. The first is that the Uranium was in the place we bombed. It seems unlikely it would have still been.
It was in the centrifuges when we bombed.
Iran is getting revenue by moving oil by rail to China. More to the point, Iran knows how to live with sanctions and hardship, we really don't. We whined like little b***hes when we couldn't go to Applebees in 2020.
5% of Iran's oil moves by rail to China, another 5% moves via the Caspian sea. Bomb a few RR bridges and a few pumping stations and Iran's oil output goes to zero. Trump is being very patient.
A few more months of $5.00 gasoline, Americans will be in a very cranky mood.
Americans, real Americans, know a small sacrifice at the pump is worth Iran not having nukes.
Why do you want Iran to have nukes and ICBMs?
 
...and nothing, you are okay being called a leftist? You are, correct?
You seem to have no problems with potential war crimes. That is interesting.
Read my post again. We are not under the ICC, they are not war crimes.
I was not referring to the Gulf states.
So who else could afford to buy food for 93,000,000 people? Your argument about Iran's neighbors falls flat.
If being an operative word.
I didn't use "if", but you are correct. Trump needs to hold firm on the blockade and not TACO.
Then do not complain when allies decline to assist an unnecessary attack.
It was only an unnecessary attack if you are fine with Iran having nukes and ICBMs. Which you apparently are.
From my reading the decision to open the Strait lies with Iran.
Unless escorts are used to move tankers thru the strait.
Except that it was not weeks away from nuclear weapons. And Trump stated last June that "Iran’s key nuclear enrichment facilities have been completely and totally obliterated" .
Iran's enrichment facilities were obliterated, but there is still 460 kg buried there in the centrifuges that can be recovered.

"The 60% material, Sean, can be brought to 90%, that’s weapons-grade, in roughly one week, maybe 10 days at the outside. The 20% can be brought to weapons-grade inside of three to four weeks.”
“They were proud of it,” Witkoff went on. “They were proud that they had evaded all sorts of oversight protocols to get to a place where they could deliver 11 nuclear bombs.”
And while that agreement was in place Iran kept to it. From here: Fact Sheet: The Iran Deal, Then and Now - Center for Arms Control and Non-Proliferation
As a part of the deal, Iran also agreed to implement the Additional Protocol, which is an expanded set of requirements for information and access to assist the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) in its task of confirming that states are using nuclear material for solely peaceful purposes.
Once Trump decided to withdraw from that agreement in 2018 Iran had no reason to continue to abide by it.
The JCPOA was a 10-year agreement, then Iran could develop nukes, the JCPOA expired. It was worthless.
Trump said "no nukes, period". See the difference?
That is debatable.
Not from our perspective. Paying more for gas for a few months is a small price to pay to stop Iran.
North Korea has them. Again from my reading the Iranian regime's viewpoint appears to be that having a nuclear deterrent prevents attacks by the USA.
So you are okay with Iran having nukes and ICBMs. We are not.
Then your statement that Iran was weeks away from nuclear weapons is erroneous.
You didn't answer the follow-up question, what "situation" is the US in? See link above, not erroneous.
It has some revenue and the Iranian regime does not care how much suffering it inflicts on the populace.
Keep watching...
You seem quite at ease with the USA committing potential war crimes.
Furthermore, can you be certain that military personnel would simply obey orders? Individuals were hanged at Nuremberg for doing that.
LOL. What part of "WE ARE NOT UNDER THE ICC" do you not understand?
History shows that intensive bombing has never achieved regime change. Neither Germany nor the Allies could achieve that in WW2 and it did not work for the USA in Vietnam either.
If Trump loses his patience and puts Iran back in the Stone Age they will take decades to recover unless he also destroys their oil infrastructure, then they have no revenue and become another Afghanistan. Iranians are not stupid people, Ayatollah Khomeini had to "drink from the poison chalice" for Saddam, "junior" can do it for Trump.
 
It appears Iran is on its last leg, hanging on by a thread. Of course they are famous for breaking every deal they ever signed. Time will tell but it looks like it’s over.


Iran’s supreme leader, Mojtaba Khamenei, would have to approve any final deal with the U.S. through secret courier networks while remaining in hiding as a "designated target," counterterrorism experts said Tuesday.

The unprecedented arrangement, they claimed, means Washington is negotiating a high-stakes accord with an entirely invisible counterparty, with a potential memorandum signed by a regime leader and a "designated target" who can never publicly show his face.
1780321036906.gif
 
15th post
...and nothing, you are okay being called a leftist? You are, correct?
I fail to see why you are making assumptions about my political leanings.
Read my post again. We are not under the ICC, they are not war crimes.
That the USA never ratified the Rome Statue does not negate a potential war crime.
So who else could afford to buy food for 93,000,000 people? Your argument about Iran's neighbors falls flat.
As I noted, the Iranian regime is not bothered about the suffering of the Iranian population.
I didn't use "if", but you are correct.
I know you did not and I know I am.
Trump needs to hold firm on the blockade and not TACO.
That is your view but it may not be his.
It was only an unnecessary attack if you are fine with Iran having nukes and ICBMs.
Iran did not have nukes and IBMs. Why do you keep peddling a lie?
Unless escorts are used to move tankers thru the strait.
Do you imagine the insurers will accept that? What about the risk to US military personnel? Does Trump want body bags coming home?
Iran's enrichment facilities were obliterated, but there is still 460 kg buried there in the centrifuges that can be recovered.
Therefore the regime was and is nowhere near being capable of producing a nuclear weapon.
"The 60% material, Sean, can be brought to 90%, that’s weapons-grade, in roughly one week, maybe 10 days at the outside. The 20% can be brought to weapons-grade inside of three to four weeks.”
“They were proud of it,” Witkoff went on. “They were proud that they had evaded all sorts of oversight protocols to get to a place where they could deliver 11 nuclear bombs.”
Witkoff's expertise is as a real estate lawyer.
The JCPOA was a 10-year agreement, then Iran could develop nukes, the JCPOA expired.
Again you are incorrect.

The USA under Trump announced its withdrawal from the JCPOA in May 2018.


Trump said "no nukes, period". See the difference?
And while the JCPOA was in force Iran kept to that agreement.
Not from our perspective. Paying more for gas for a few months is a small price to pay to stop Iran.
You might think that but it seems many of your compatriots do not. From here: Walmart warns US shoppers are cutting spending as higher petrol prices bite

Walmart has warned higher petrol prices are causing US consumers to cut spending elsewhere as the war with Iran continues to squeeze household budgets.

The retail giant expects its sales growth between May and July to slow significantly from the previous three months, with higher prices at the pump to blame.

The conflict in the Middle East has led to a surge in wholesale oil prices, in turn pushing up the price of petrol for Americans.



So you are okay with Iran having nukes and ICBMs. We are not.
I would prefer that no country had nuclear weapons but one cannot undo the past nor can one destroy knowledge.

However, from the Iranian regime's POV it sees that the USA does not attack countries with such a capablity
You didn't answer the follow-up question, what "situation" is the US in?
The situation of an unnecessary war and a rising cost of living. Both being the complete opposite of what Trump promised when campaigning
See link above, not erroneous.
If its capability was "totally obliterated" then explain how barely a year later it was in a position to produce a nuclear weapon. Your claim is also rejected by US intelligence
Keep watching...

LOL. What part of "WE ARE NOT UNDER THE ICC" do you not understand?
What part of committing a potential war crime do you not understand?

Nor did you address my question about military personnel refusing to carry out orders.
If Trump loses his patience and puts Iran back in the Stone Age they will take decades to recover unless he also destroys their oil infrastructure, then they have no revenue and become another Afghanistan. Iranians are not stupid people, Ayatollah Khomeini had to "drink from the poison chalice" for Saddam, "junior" can do it for Trump.
How do you envisage Iran would be put back in the Stone Age?
 
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