Into the Black - Black World - Black Projects - Black Budgets - Area 51, Etc.

[Mushroom]

one place that will come readily to mind might be "The Skunk Works" a.k.a. Area 51 ~ Groom Lake

Groom Lake and Area 51 were never "The Skunk Works". That was originally at the Lockheed Burbank plant, where such aircraft as the P-38, SR-71, and F-117 were developed and built.

But by the late-1980's that area was shifting to residential and commercial, so it was moved to Plant 42 in Palmdale. There the B-1, B-2. and F-35 were developed and built.

Groom Lake is simply a test area where those aircraft and others that are of a "black" nature are tested. As opposed to at Edwards Air Force Base where public tests are conducted.

It helps if you first know what you are talking about.

 

[Mushroom]

It seems like you just listed some facts about Area 51

And even a lot of that was outright wrong.

He is simply a conspiracy nut.

 

[Stryder50]

Let's just say extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Nothing in our current knowledge of physics suggests anti-gravity is even possible. I refuse to believe there is some exception to physical laws no one has independently hit on in all this time. Such a thing would be worth a stack of Nobel prizes and eternal scientific glory.

See my post #40 here.
There is nothing that says counter-gravity is oppossed by a solid and single state absolute physical condition = pro-gravity only.

 

[occupied]

Yeah, I know and have heard such claims/comments in the past.

We have something vastly different here.

Consider; You have a device that can generate a field effect that can cancel gravity, say within a radius of a city block. This is a spherical radius.

Activate this device in a major city of this planet and suddenly a sphere two city blocks in diameter has lost it's bond to Earth as is raising and hurtling into the depths of outer space, beyond the surface of Earth.

Might this not be a more fearsome weapon than atomic/hydrogen bombs in some ways?

Is it possible "you" might do whatever you can to keep this knowledge and capability out of as many hands as you possibly can?

Pure science fiction (Cities in Flight, James Blish). Why are you thinking of destructive weapons? It's much more plausible to believe the government is working on things that simply pacify wide areas with plausible deniability. Nothing so dramatic as cities flying away is needed if you could make people give up. Think about the Havana syndrome for a moment. Some device made those people terribly ill at a distance. Our government knows exactly what is doing this but exposing it would undermine our own program.

 

[Mushroom]

The best way to test them is against current tech. What will an F22 Raptor's radar pick up?

Actually, testing like that is normally conducted at the large joint base complex in New Mexico - Texas. Fort Bliss, White Sands Missile Range, and Holloman Air Force Base.

As the home of both all upgrades and future designs for US Air Defense systems as well as the USS Desert Ship LLS-1, that only makes sense. At one place they can test the abilities of aircraft not only to see air threats, but also those on the surface. And also show those surface units the characteristics of stealth aircraft.

 

[Godboy]

Actually, testing like that is normally conducted at the large joint base complex in New Mexico - Texas. Fort Bliss, White Sands Missile Range, and Holloman Air Force Base.

As the home of both all upgrades and future designs for US Air Defense systems as well as the USS Desert Ship LLS-1, that only makes sense. At one place they can test the abilities of aircraft not only to see air threats, but also those on the surface. And also show those surface units the characteristics of stealth aircraft.

I imagine there are real world variables that need to be tested at sea as well. Most scenarios where the enemy will come in contact with a plane is at sea, or on land, but away from the enemies military bases.

 

[Stryder50]

Groom Lake and Area 51 were never "The Skunk Works". That was originally at the Lockheed Burbank plant, where such aircraft as the P-38, SR-71, and F-117 were developed and built.

But by the late-1980's that area was shifting to residential and commercial, so it was moved to Plant 42 in Palmdale. There the B-1, B-2. and F-35 were developed and built.

Groom Lake is simply a test area where those aircraft and others that are of a "black" nature are tested. As opposed to at Edwards Air Force Base where public tests are conducted.

It helps if you first know what you are talking about.

EXCERPTS:
...
Skunk Works is an official pseudonym for Lockheed Martin's Advanced Development Programs (ADP), formerly called Lockheed Advanced Development Projects. It is responsible for a number of aircraft designs, beginning with the P-38 Lightning in 1939[1][2] and the P-80 Shooting Star in 1943. Skunk Works engineers subsequently developed the U-2, SR-71 Blackbird, F-117 Nighthawk, F-22 Raptor, and F-35 Lightning II, the latter being used in the air forces of several countries.

The Skunk Works name was taken from the moonshine factory in the comic strip Li'l Abner. The designation "skunk works" or "skunkworks" is widely used in business, engineering, and technical fields to describe a group within an organization given a high degree of autonomy and unhampered by bureaucracy, with the task of working on advanced or secret projects.
...
There are conflicting observations about the birth of Skunk Works.

Ben Rich and "Kelly" Johnson set the origin as June 1943 in Burbank, California; they relate essentially the same chronology in their autobiographies.[3] Their's is the official Lockheed Skunk Works story:
...

1950s to 1990s​

Assembly line of the SR-71 Blackbird at Skunk Works

In 1955, the Skunk Works received a contract from the CIA to build a spyplane known as the U-2 with the intention of flying over the Soviet Union and photographing sites of strategic interest. The U-2 was tested at Groom Lake in the Nevada desert, and the Flight Test Engineer in charge was Joseph F. Ware, Jr. The first overflight took place on July 4 1956. The U-2 ceased overflights when Francis Gary Powers was shot down during a mission on May 1, 1960, while over Russia.

The Skunk Works had predicted that the U-2 would have a limited operational life over the Soviet Union. The CIA agreed. In late 1959, Skunk Works received a contract to build five A-12 aircraft at a cost of $96 million. Building a Mach 3.0+ aircraft out of titanium posed enormous difficulties, and the first flight did not occur until 1962. (Titanium supply was largely dominated by the Soviet Union, so the CIA set up a dummy corporation to acquire source material.) Several years later, the U.S. Air Force became interested in the design, and it ordered the SR-71 Blackbird, a two-seater version of the A-12. This aircraft first flew in 1966 and remained in service until 1998.
...

Skunk Works - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As usual in such affairs, there is a "confused" and "convoluted" history ...

Skunk Works - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Stryder50]

Pure science fiction (Cities in Flight, James Blish). Why are you thinking of destructive weapons? It's much more plausible to believe the government is working on things that simply pacify wide areas with plausible deniability. Nothing so dramatic as cities flying away is needed if you could make people give up. Think about the Havana syndrome for a moment. Some device made those people terribly ill at a distance. Our government knows exactly what is doing this but exposing it would undermine our own program.

You are speaking about a technology separate from that which I've presented earlier in this thread. Also a separate agenda.

You are bananas versus apples ...

 

[occupied]

Our Universe is one of polarities ...
Plus versus Minus
Light versus Dark
Hot versus Cold
Etc. ,,,

So why not gravity versus anti/non-gravity ???

Try not to limit the scope of your thinking and imagination . . .

Gravity is not like the other physical forces. It seems to be an effect mass has on the fabric of space-time. There can be no such thing as negative mass. There can be no negative gravity.

 

[Mushroom]

I imagine there are real world variables that need to be tested at sea as well.

But that does not affect how the RADAR itself operates. In fact, more reliable data is obtained by testing from fixed shore positions. That is why the Navy has two "land ships", the other in New Jersey.

 

[Mushroom]

EXCERPTS:

Great, you looked up Wikipedia to confirm what I just said. That Groom Lake was never the "Skunk Works". That it started in Burbank, and moved to Palmdale. But it was never in Nevada.

I used to look out at Plant 42 from my bedroom window. And knew a great many people that worked there.

If you want to know some real history rather than that junk you keep trying to pass off, try reading some real books. You can start with one called "Skunk Works", by Ben Rich.

As usual, this does not even belong in here. This would be more appropriate in the Conspiracy Theory section.

 

[Mushroom]

There can be no negative gravity.

Sure there is. You get that every time you try to obtain the square root of a negative number.

 

[Mushroom]

You are speaking about a technology separate from that which I've presented earlier in this thread

No, we are talking about facts and actual real science. You as always are trying to discuss fantasy, unicorn farts, rainbows, and junk science.

 

[Godboy]

But that does not affect how the RADAR itself operates. In fact, more reliable data is obtained by testing from fixed shore positions. That is why the Navy has two "land ships", the other in New Jersey.

RADAR is just one of many things to test. Visual tests are needed too. They might want to see how well it blends in with the ocean. Can a pilot see it very well if it flies between them and the water? I would imagine there are thousands variables that experts would look at that you and I would never even think of.

 

[Mushroom]

RADAR is just one of many things to test. Visual tests are needed too. They might want to see how well it blends in with the ocean.

Well, largely irrelevant since the F-22 has almost no air to ground capability, other than some conventional bombs. It is an air superiority fighter, so would never be used to attack ships.

Visual? Almost irrelevant in the modern era on ships. That is what RADAR is for, at most they look out for other ships and small boats that can get lost in the ground clutter. But not aircraft. And the RADAR characteristics is what they are mostly concerned with.

But "blends in with the ocean"? It is not a Naval aircraft. It has absolutely no reason to be over the ocean, unless it is at high altitude going from one place to another. And at 65k feet, you are not going to "see" it visually.

 

[Godboy]

Gravity is not like the other physical forces. It seems to be an effect mass has on the fabric of space-time. There can be no such thing as negative mass. There can be no negative gravity.

Well, "anti gravity" could also just be a stronger gravitational pull than the planet has. If, for example, you were to create a black hole 100 feet off the ground, it would have a stronger pull than the planet, which would enable it to lift a city. Not that I think anyone has created a black hole machine, but im just spit balling here.

 

[occupied]

Well, "anti gravity" could also just be a stronger gravitational pull than the planet has. If, for example, you were to create a black hole 100 feet off the ground, it would have a stronger pull than the planet, which would enable it to lift a city. Not that I think anyone has created a black hole machine, but im just spit balling here.

A "black hole" has tidal forces that rip all matter into superheated spaghetti and emit enough hard x-rays to see light years away. Also, don't drop it, it will eat the earth.

 

[Godboy]

Well, largely irrelevant since the F-22 has almost no air to ground capability, other than some conventional bombs. It is an air superiority fighter, so would never be used to attack ships.

Visual? Almost irrelevant in the modern era on ships. That is what RADAR is for, at most they look out for other ships and small boats that can get lost in the ground clutter. But not aircraft. And the RADAR characteristics is what they are mostly concerned with.

But "blends in with the ocean"? It is not a Naval aircraft. It has absolutely no reason to be over the ocean, unless it is at high altitude going from one place to another. And at 65k feet, you are not going to "see" it visually.

Well, our secret plane is an aircraft, not a ship, so yeah, they might want to see what happens when they get near a fighter plane.

Visual is absolutely not irrelevant. Every bird we put in the sky is painted specifically to camouflage it. Some paints even help to hide the plane from RADAR. The one thing we constantly test are ways to hide planes from RADARs. We are often successful at it. When we first started using stealth planes, they werent picking us up on RADAR.

No reason to go over an ocean? Are you high? Every plane that leaves this country has to go over the ocean.

...and why isnt it a Naval aircraft? Virtually all future military planes will be launched from carriers at sea. They will be pilotless drones.

 

[Godboy]

A "black hole" has tidal forces that rip all matter into superheated spaghetti and emit enough hard x-rays to see light years away. Also, don't drop it, it will eat the earth.

Who said it had to be a giant black hole?

 

[occupied]

Who said it had to be a giant black hole?

You're on the wrong track. What holds up the black hole? If you somehow made one appear it would immediately fall to the center of the earth. The best any theoretical anti gravity machine could do is make stuff weigh less.