Instead of these boycotts and cries of RACISM, US Corporations and concerned citizens should make sure everyone has an ID

[SC Patriot]

wheres there a strawman involved???

Unless you can find me saying anywhere here that I don't want secure elections it is a strawman.

I can not support voter ID and still want secure elections. As is shown by the fact that in 2016 there was an election after which a commission was formed to investigate voter fraud and none was found even with the full force of the government behind it. It is shown by this election that had literally hundreds of thousands of people looking for it. The full right-wing media establishment looking for it and be prepared to highlight every case that was found. The DOJ said no, judges said no, even lawyers who were litigating for Trump said they were not aware of voter fraud in court. All of this without a voter ID requirement in all states.

Give me added security that doesn't decrease turnout and I'm for it. Any measure that does decrease turnout requires anybody making a CREDIBLE assertion that would warrant that change.

Trying to establish that voter ID is the only way to have secure elections is simply false.

give me one good reason not to have them show the same ID when they vote that they used to register with??

or didnt you know they have to show ID to register??

Because ID's expire. Because people forget to bring it. Because very few cases of impersonating a voter have occurred. Because there are other ways to verify identity.

I just gave 4.

those are piss poor excuses since they have 2 yrs to prepare for it,,

sounds like youre saying some people are to stupid to be prepared,,,

Yup some people are stupid. Guess what... that's not considered a reason to disenfranchise. But hey if you want a college degree to be a requirement, I don't think most Democrats would disagree.

As to excuses. Don't ask me for reasons if you consider them excuses. Again. You want millions of people to not vote for a problem that has occurred a bit over a dozen times since 2000. Does that sound reasonable to you?

I want everyone to vote,, just have to prove its them voting just like we require in every other important thing people do,,

now if you want to be consistent and do away with all ID requirements then we can talk,, I suggest you start with gun purchases and then move to driving and work your way down from there,,,

otherwise youre a lying hypocrite,,,

You want everybody to vote providing they prove it's them? Voter ID Laws - Vote.org This already happens.

Going for another strawman I see? Where do I say here, or anywhere that I want to get rid of ID requirements?

Not for nothing, this is getting tedious. So far I've seen you use 2 strawmen, ask a question to take my answer as "excuses" and in general refuse to engage my actual premises, and now trying to do an appeal to hypocrisy... badly I might add.

I like arguing and thanks for at least refraining from being impolite, but at some point it gets boring.

then what have you and all the others been complaining about???

We are not the ones complaining about voter fraud and the need to make the elections more secure than they are. You are the person complaining. Complaining about a non-existent problem I might add. What we are complaining about is the fact that upping the requirements for voting by default lowers turnout without the changes being justified.

EVERY SINGLE STATE HAS A WAY TO VERIFY THE VOTER, NOT ALL STATES HAVE AN ID REQUIREMENT. I'VE SAID THIS NOW 3 TIMES. Maybe if you weren't dodging my premises so much it would have sunk in?

so youre OK if we get rid of IDs for gun purchases??? and all the other things its needed for??

I smell a hypocrite,,

As long as there's another way provided to verify the person's identity get rid of them. Just like happens now in regards to voting.

but its not happening in voting,,

a person walks in and votes and at no time do those verifications follow up because they cant,,

now in gun purchases I walk in buy a gun without giving ID how do they later confirm who I was??

I'm done engaging on a logical fallacy

you shouldnt have presented one then,,

Oh really? What fallacy is that then? Feel free to point it out, I try to be aware of them so give it your best shot. Yours is called an appeal to hypocrisy. More specifically even if you could establish that I hold different standards between voting and gun purchases it would not make my argument against voter ID any less valid.

wheres the hypocrisy in having an id when you do really important stuff like voting or buying a gun??

youve failed repeatedly to give a logical reason to not have one to vote,,,

There is no logical reason not to have one. Unless, of course, you think black people are too stupid to get one....and too stupid to bring a bottle of water with them on a hot November day....and just plain too stupid.

 

[ColonelAngus]

Thats a much better solution than all this bullshit...but leftists wont go for it because they do not want people to have to show ID to vote.

MLB and Delta can get together and start a project...”IDs for all”. They can make sure everyone who wants to vote gets an ID.

Advertise on TV, radio, podcasts...Say, “Cant afford an ID?” You or a friend call this toll free number. We will come to your house and take you to get an ID.

Problem solved!

Problem solved!

The GOP has yet to show it to be a problem anywhere despite years of crying.

just because you cant see something doesnt mean its there,,

Actually, I think what you where trying to say isn't there. Kind of critical in this context.

Here's the thing, unlike for instance the existence of God. The existence of massive voter fraud can be verified. Unlike God, there are active safeguards to make sure elections are honest. From recounts to ballot watchers, audits, to bipartisan election officials, to the DOJ who investigates fraud, to lawyers from both parties who litigate suspected fraud, to the bipartisan judicial system that rules onnthis litigation.

Saying that not seeing something doesn't mean it isn't there is a cliché that doesn't work in this context.

but who watches the watchers when the watchers wont let anyone watch them??

I'm not gonna waste my time in debunking all the myths you subject yourself to in your bubble, I will only say that NO claim of fraud or procedural objection was ruled favorable on by the courts.

the discussion is about voter iDs not fraud,,, so its understandable you wont waste time on it because there is no logical reason not to require an ID for one of the most important things we do as citizens of a country

Oh, really maybe the fact that millions of ELIGIBLE voter dont have an ID can be construed as a reason?

Or the fact that EVERY single state has a procedure to identify a voter and not all of them rely on a picture ID is a reason?

Or the fact that you nor anybody on the right can establish fraud to an extent that would warrant extra measures that would limit voting in any way?

I understand that to your narrative its better that you can detach what you would call voter security measures from actually being able to show they are necessary. But it is very relevant.

If the government wants to spend 1 trillion so they can arm against aliens I think you would require more than, "it's a possibility" as a justification.

So glad by the way you find voting the most important thing a citizen can do. Why wouldn't you want all eligible voters to do so than?

figures,, more excuses why not to secure the most important thing we do as a society,,

The only people who say they aren't secure are on the internet. It isn't claimed be you know... Those charged with conducting, investigating, litigating, judging elections. And contrary to what you say I want secure elections, I also want INCLUSIVE elections. You only want one of those.

But hey go right ahead and put up the strawman.

A secure election IS an INCLUSIVE election.

Anyone who has the right to vote can. Anyone who doesn't will get screened out via proof of ID.

voter identification laws by state - Bing Every state has a way to identify the voter. Not every state requires an ID. Very few cases of impersonating voters have been recorded. People have looked and I would imagine it not being very hard to find considering that it would just require one person wanting to vote when his vote being already cast to have the scheme blow up. Voter Fraud Map: Election Fraud Database | The Heritage Foundation This database goes back to 2000 it has a bit over a thousand cases total it has 13 cases documented. Voter Fraud Map: Election Fraud Database | The Heritage Foundation

Every State should require an ID.

Full stop.

It is NOT racist. It is NOT voter suppression.

Full stop.

Absolutely. This bullshit that some people want to vote but cannot get an ID is pathetic.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Thats a much better solution than all this bullshit...but leftists wont go for it because they do not want people to have to show ID to vote.

MLB and Delta can get together and start a project...”IDs for all”. They can make sure everyone who wants to vote gets an ID.

Advertise on TV, radio, podcasts...Say, “Cant afford an ID?” You or a friend call this toll free number. We will come to your house and take you to get an ID.

Problem solved!

Problem solved!

The GOP has yet to show it to be a problem anywhere despite years of crying.

just because you cant see something doesnt mean its there,,

Actually, I think what you where trying to say isn't there. Kind of critical in this context.

Here's the thing, unlike for instance the existence of God. The existence of massive voter fraud can be verified. Unlike God, there are active safeguards to make sure elections are honest. From recounts to ballot watchers, audits, to bipartisan election officials, to the DOJ who investigates fraud, to lawyers from both parties who litigate suspected fraud, to the bipartisan judicial system that rules onnthis litigation.

Saying that not seeing something doesn't mean it isn't there is a cliché that doesn't work in this context.

but who watches the watchers when the watchers wont let anyone watch them??

I'm not gonna waste my time in debunking all the myths you subject yourself to in your bubble, I will only say that NO claim of fraud or procedural objection was ruled favorable on by the courts.

the discussion is about voter iDs not fraud,,, so its understandable you wont waste time on it because there is no logical reason not to require an ID for one of the most important things we do as citizens of a country

Oh, really maybe the fact that millions of ELIGIBLE voter dont have an ID can be construed as a reason?

Or the fact that EVERY single state has a procedure to identify a voter and not all of them rely on a picture ID is a reason?

Or the fact that you nor anybody on the right can establish fraud to an extent that would warrant extra measures that would limit voting in any way?

I understand that to your narrative its better that you can detach what you would call voter security measures from actually being able to show they are necessary. But it is very relevant.

If the government wants to spend 1 trillion so they can arm against aliens I think you would require more than, "it's a possibility" as a justification.

So glad by the way you find voting the most important thing a citizen can do. Why wouldn't you want all eligible voters to do so than?

figures,, more excuses why not to secure the most important thing we do as a society,,

The only people who say they aren't secure are on the internet. It isn't claimed be you know... Those charged with conducting, investigating, litigating, judging elections. And contrary to what you say I want secure elections, I also want INCLUSIVE elections. You only want one of those.

But hey go right ahead and put up the strawman.

A secure election IS an INCLUSIVE election.

Anyone who has the right to vote can. Anyone who doesn't will get screened out via proof of ID.

voter identification laws by state - Bing Every state has a way to identify the voter. Not every state requires an ID. Very few cases of impersonating voters have been recorded. People have looked and I would imagine it not being very hard to find considering that it would just require one person wanting to vote when his vote being already cast to have the scheme blow up. Voter Fraud Map: Election Fraud Database | The Heritage Foundation This database goes back to 2000 it has a bit over a thousand cases total it has 13 cases documented. Voter Fraud Map: Election Fraud Database | The Heritage Foundation

Every State should require an ID.

Full stop.

It is NOT racist. It is NOT voter suppression.

Full stop.

Absolutely. This bullshit that some people want to vote but cannot get an ID is pathetic.

If I'm understanding correctly, it is now "racist" to believe that minorities are sufficiently intelligent and capable to figure out how and where to get an ID (and to feed and hydrate themselves adequately), and it 's "anti-racist" to believe that minorities are helpless dunces without the sense to come in out of the rain without a benevolent white person to look out for them.

Does that sound asinine to anyone else, or is it just me?

 

[Nostra]

wheres there a strawman involved???

Unless you can find me saying anywhere here that I don't want secure elections it is a strawman.

I can not support voter ID and still want secure elections. As is shown by the fact that in 2016 there was an election after which a commission was formed to investigate voter fraud and none was found even with the full force of the government behind it. It is shown by this election that had literally hundreds of thousands of people looking for it. The full right-wing media establishment looking for it and be prepared to highlight every case that was found. The DOJ said no, judges said no, even lawyers who were litigating for Trump said they were not aware of voter fraud in court. All of this without a voter ID requirement in all states.

Give me added security that doesn't decrease turnout and I'm for it. Any measure that does decrease turnout requires anybody making a CREDIBLE assertion that would warrant that change.

Trying to establish that voter ID is the only way to have secure elections is simply false.

give me one good reason not to have them show the same ID when they vote that they used to register with??

or didnt you know they have to show ID to register??

Because ID's expire. Because people forget to bring it. Because very few cases of impersonating a voter have occurred. Because there are other ways to verify identity.

I just gave 4.

those are piss poor excuses since they have 2 yrs to prepare for it,,

sounds like youre saying some people are to stupid to be prepared,,,

Yup some people are stupid. Guess what... that's not considered a reason to disenfranchise. But hey if you want a college degree to be a requirement, I don't think most Democrats would disagree.

As to excuses. Don't ask me for reasons if you consider them excuses. Again. You want millions of people to not vote for a problem that has occurred a bit over a dozen times since 2000. Does that sound reasonable to you?

I want everyone to vote,, just have to prove its them voting just like we require in every other important thing people do,,

now if you want to be consistent and do away with all ID requirements then we can talk,, I suggest you start with gun purchases and then move to driving and work your way down from there,,,

otherwise youre a lying hypocrite,,,

You want everybody to vote providing they prove it's them? Voter ID Laws - Vote.org This already happens.

Going for another strawman I see? Where do I say here, or anywhere that I want to get rid of ID requirements?

Not for nothing, this is getting tedious. So far I've seen you use 2 strawmen, ask a question to take my answer as "excuses" and in general refuse to engage my actual premises, and now trying to do an appeal to hypocrisy... badly I might add.

I like arguing and thanks for at least refraining from being impolite, but at some point it gets boring.

then what have you and all the others been complaining about???

We are not the ones complaining about voter fraud and the need to make the elections more secure than they are. You are the person complaining. Complaining about a non-existent problem I might add. What we are complaining about is the fact that upping the requirements for voting by default lowers turnout without the changes being justified.

EVERY SINGLE STATE HAS A WAY TO VERIFY THE VOTER, NOT ALL STATES HAVE AN ID REQUIREMENT. I'VE SAID THIS NOW 3 TIMES. Maybe if you weren't dodging my premises so much it would have sunk in?

so youre OK if we get rid of IDs for gun purchases??? and all the other things its needed for??

I smell a hypocrite,,

As long as there's another way provided to verify the person's identity get rid of them. Just like happens now in regards to voting.

As to what you smell. I think it's the stench of someone who can't muster the intellectual honesty to debate on the merits of the arguments. So logical fallacies and deflections are what is left.

Still waiting for your list of people who have been disenfranchised by Voter ID laws.....

 

[Nostra]

wheres there a strawman involved???

Unless you can find me saying anywhere here that I don't want secure elections it is a strawman.

I can not support voter ID and still want secure elections. As is shown by the fact that in 2016 there was an election after which a commission was formed to investigate voter fraud and none was found even with the full force of the government behind it. It is shown by this election that had literally hundreds of thousands of people looking for it. The full right-wing media establishment looking for it and be prepared to highlight every case that was found. The DOJ said no, judges said no, even lawyers who were litigating for Trump said they were not aware of voter fraud in court. All of this without a voter ID requirement in all states.

Give me added security that doesn't decrease turnout and I'm for it. Any measure that does decrease turnout requires anybody making a CREDIBLE assertion that would warrant that change.

Trying to establish that voter ID is the only way to have secure elections is simply false.

give me one good reason not to have them show the same ID when they vote that they used to register with??

or didnt you know they have to show ID to register??

Because ID's expire. Because people forget to bring it. Because very few cases of impersonating a voter have occurred. Because there are other ways to verify identity.

I just gave 4.

those are piss poor excuses since they have 2 yrs to prepare for it,,

sounds like youre saying some people are to stupid to be prepared,,,

Yup some people are stupid. Guess what... that's not considered a reason to disenfranchise. But hey if you want a college degree to be a requirement, I don't think most Democrats would disagree.

As to excuses. Don't ask me for reasons if you consider them excuses. Again. You want millions of people to not vote for a problem that has occurred a bit over a dozen times since 2000. Does that sound reasonable to you?

I want everyone to vote,, just have to prove its them voting just like we require in every other important thing people do,,

now if you want to be consistent and do away with all ID requirements then we can talk,, I suggest you start with gun purchases and then move to driving and work your way down from there,,,

otherwise youre a lying hypocrite,,,

You want everybody to vote providing they prove it's them? Voter ID Laws - Vote.org This already happens.

Going for another strawman I see? Where do I say here, or anywhere that I want to get rid of ID requirements?

Not for nothing, this is getting tedious. So far I've seen you use 2 strawmen, ask a question to take my answer as "excuses" and in general refuse to engage my actual premises, and now trying to do an appeal to hypocrisy... badly I might add.

I like arguing and thanks for at least refraining from being impolite, but at some point it gets boring.

then what have you and all the others been complaining about???

We are not the ones complaining about voter fraud and the need to make the elections more secure than they are. You are the person complaining. Complaining about a non-existent problem I might add. What we are complaining about is the fact that upping the requirements for voting by default lowers turnout without the changes being justified.

EVERY SINGLE STATE HAS A WAY TO VERIFY THE VOTER, NOT ALL STATES HAVE AN ID REQUIREMENT. I'VE SAID THIS NOW 3 TIMES. Maybe if you weren't dodging my premises so much it would have sunk in?

so youre OK if we get rid of IDs for gun purchases??? and all the other things its needed for??

I smell a hypocrite,,

As long as there's another way provided to verify the person's identity get rid of them. Just like happens now in regards to voting.

but its not happening in voting,,

a person walks in and votes and at no time do those verifications follow up because they cant,,

now in gun purchases I walk in buy a gun without giving ID how do they later confirm who I was??

I'm done engaging on a logical fallacy

Why did you bring one up?

 

[Nostra]

wheres there a strawman involved???

Unless you can find me saying anywhere here that I don't want secure elections it is a strawman.

I can not support voter ID and still want secure elections. As is shown by the fact that in 2016 there was an election after which a commission was formed to investigate voter fraud and none was found even with the full force of the government behind it. It is shown by this election that had literally hundreds of thousands of people looking for it. The full right-wing media establishment looking for it and be prepared to highlight every case that was found. The DOJ said no, judges said no, even lawyers who were litigating for Trump said they were not aware of voter fraud in court. All of this without a voter ID requirement in all states.

Give me added security that doesn't decrease turnout and I'm for it. Any measure that does decrease turnout requires anybody making a CREDIBLE assertion that would warrant that change.

Trying to establish that voter ID is the only way to have secure elections is simply false.

give me one good reason not to have them show the same ID when they vote that they used to register with??

or didnt you know they have to show ID to register??

Because ID's expire. Because people forget to bring it. Because very few cases of impersonating a voter have occurred. Because there are other ways to verify identity.

I just gave 4.

those are piss poor excuses since they have 2 yrs to prepare for it,,

sounds like youre saying some people are to stupid to be prepared,,,

Yup some people are stupid. Guess what... that's not considered a reason to disenfranchise. But hey if you want a college degree to be a requirement, I don't think most Democrats would disagree.

As to excuses. Don't ask me for reasons if you consider them excuses. Again. You want millions of people to not vote for a problem that has occurred a bit over a dozen times since 2000. Does that sound reasonable to you?

I want everyone to vote,, just have to prove its them voting just like we require in every other important thing people do,,

now if you want to be consistent and do away with all ID requirements then we can talk,, I suggest you start with gun purchases and then move to driving and work your way down from there,,,

otherwise youre a lying hypocrite,,,

You want everybody to vote providing they prove it's them? Voter ID Laws - Vote.org This already happens.

Going for another strawman I see? Where do I say here, or anywhere that I want to get rid of ID requirements?

Not for nothing, this is getting tedious. So far I've seen you use 2 strawmen, ask a question to take my answer as "excuses" and in general refuse to engage my actual premises, and now trying to do an appeal to hypocrisy... badly I might add.

I like arguing and thanks for at least refraining from being impolite, but at some point it gets boring.

then what have you and all the others been complaining about???

We are not the ones complaining about voter fraud and the need to make the elections more secure than they are. You are the person complaining. Complaining about a non-existent problem I might add. What we are complaining about is the fact that upping the requirements for voting by default lowers turnout without the changes being justified.

EVERY SINGLE STATE HAS A WAY TO VERIFY THE VOTER, NOT ALL STATES HAVE AN ID REQUIREMENT. I'VE SAID THIS NOW 3 TIMES. Maybe if you weren't dodging my premises so much it would have sunk in?

so youre OK if we get rid of IDs for gun purchases??? and all the other things its needed for??

I smell a hypocrite,,

As long as there's another way provided to verify the person's identity get rid of them. Just like happens now in regards to voting.

but its not happening in voting,,

a person walks in and votes and at no time do those verifications follow up because they cant,,

now in gun purchases I walk in buy a gun without giving ID how do they later confirm who I was??

I'm done engaging on a logical fallacy

you shouldnt have presented one then,,

Oh really? What fallacy is that then? Feel free to point it out, I try to be aware of them so give it your best shot. Yours is called an appeal to hypocrisy. More specifically even if you could establish that I hold different standards between voting and gun purchases it would not make my argument against voter ID any less valid.

Let’s try background checks. Do you support them for voting? If not, you obviously don’t support them for buying a gun, right?

 

[Nostra]

wheres there a strawman involved???

Unless you can find me saying anywhere here that I don't want secure elections it is a strawman.

I can not support voter ID and still want secure elections. As is shown by the fact that in 2016 there was an election after which a commission was formed to investigate voter fraud and none was found even with the full force of the government behind it. It is shown by this election that had literally hundreds of thousands of people looking for it. The full right-wing media establishment looking for it and be prepared to highlight every case that was found. The DOJ said no, judges said no, even lawyers who were litigating for Trump said they were not aware of voter fraud in court. All of this without a voter ID requirement in all states.

Give me added security that doesn't decrease turnout and I'm for it. Any measure that does decrease turnout requires anybody making a CREDIBLE assertion that would warrant that change.

Trying to establish that voter ID is the only way to have secure elections is simply false.

give me one good reason not to have them show the same ID when they vote that they used to register with??

or didnt you know they have to show ID to register??

Because ID's expire. Because people forget to bring it. Because very few cases of impersonating a voter have occurred. Because there are other ways to verify identity.

I just gave 4.

those are piss poor excuses since they have 2 yrs to prepare for it,,

sounds like youre saying some people are to stupid to be prepared,,,

Yup some people are stupid. Guess what... that's not considered a reason to disenfranchise. But hey if you want a college degree to be a requirement, I don't think most Democrats would disagree.

As to excuses. Don't ask me for reasons if you consider them excuses. Again. You want millions of people to not vote for a problem that has occurred a bit over a dozen times since 2000. Does that sound reasonable to you?

I want everyone to vote,, just have to prove its them voting just like we require in every other important thing people do,,

now if you want to be consistent and do away with all ID requirements then we can talk,, I suggest you start with gun purchases and then move to driving and work your way down from there,,,

otherwise youre a lying hypocrite,,,

You want everybody to vote providing they prove it's them? Voter ID Laws - Vote.org This already happens.

Going for another strawman I see? Where do I say here, or anywhere that I want to get rid of ID requirements?

Not for nothing, this is getting tedious. So far I've seen you use 2 strawmen, ask a question to take my answer as "excuses" and in general refuse to engage my actual premises, and now trying to do an appeal to hypocrisy... badly I might add.

I like arguing and thanks for at least refraining from being impolite, but at some point it gets boring.

then what have you and all the others been complaining about???

We are not the ones complaining about voter fraud and the need to make the elections more secure than they are. You are the person complaining. Complaining about a non-existent problem I might add. What we are complaining about is the fact that upping the requirements for voting by default lowers turnout without the changes being justified.

EVERY SINGLE STATE HAS A WAY TO VERIFY THE VOTER, NOT ALL STATES HAVE AN ID REQUIREMENT. I'VE SAID THIS NOW 3 TIMES. Maybe if you weren't dodging my premises so much it would have sunk in?

so youre OK if we get rid of IDs for gun purchases??? and all the other things its needed for??

I smell a hypocrite,,

As long as there's another way provided to verify the person's identity get rid of them. Just like happens now in regards to voting.

but its not happening in voting,,

a person walks in and votes and at no time do those verifications follow up because they cant,,

now in gun purchases I walk in buy a gun without giving ID how do they later confirm who I was??

I'm done engaging on a logical fallacy

you shouldnt have presented one then,,

Oh really? What fallacy is that then? Feel free to point it out, I try to be aware of them so give it your best shot. Yours is called an appeal to hypocrisy. More specifically even if you could establish that I hold different standards between voting and gun purchases it would not make my argument against voter ID any less valid.

I really cant figure out what you are saying. I take fault in that.

S, if I may......may I make this easier for me to understand?

To get a picture ID, which is required for many activities in the US such as....well....living, flying, mortgages, car leases, entry into a most venues......and all you need is a birth certificate and a bill with your name and address …..exactly why would you not get that picture ID?

I don't know what the reason would be neither is it all that important. The point is that some people don't or they simply forget or they have lost it. They are then not allowed to vote, I would argue a very basic right. At the moment since 2000 exactly 14 people have been convicted for impersonating a voter, telling me that that requirement doesn't add anything to security. Knowing that and knowing that millions of people who can potentially vote don't have an ID it seems unnecessary and dishonest.

Refusing to get an ID. Losing your ID. Forgetting your ID.

None constitutes disenfranchisement.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Thats a much better solution than all this bullshit...but leftists wont go for it because they do not want people to have to show ID to vote.

MLB and Delta can get together and start a project...”IDs for all”. They can make sure everyone who wants to vote gets an ID.

Advertise on TV, radio, podcasts...Say, “Cant afford an ID?” You or a friend call this toll free number. We will come to your house and take you to get an ID.

Problem solved!

Solving racism isn't the goal. Continuing with fraud in elections is.
Corporate America as well as the public either know this or are too stupid to vote to begin with.

 

[forkup]

wheres there a strawman involved???

Unless you can find me saying anywhere here that I don't want secure elections it is a strawman.

I can not support voter ID and still want secure elections. As is shown by the fact that in 2016 there was an election after which a commission was formed to investigate voter fraud and none was found even with the full force of the government behind it. It is shown by this election that had literally hundreds of thousands of people looking for it. The full right-wing media establishment looking for it and be prepared to highlight every case that was found. The DOJ said no, judges said no, even lawyers who were litigating for Trump said they were not aware of voter fraud in court. All of this without a voter ID requirement in all states.

Give me added security that doesn't decrease turnout and I'm for it. Any measure that does decrease turnout requires anybody making a CREDIBLE assertion that would warrant that change.

Trying to establish that voter ID is the only way to have secure elections is simply false.

give me one good reason not to have them show the same ID when they vote that they used to register with??

or didnt you know they have to show ID to register??

Because ID's expire. Because people forget to bring it. Because very few cases of impersonating a voter have occurred. Because there are other ways to verify identity.

I just gave 4.

those are piss poor excuses since they have 2 yrs to prepare for it,,

sounds like youre saying some people are to stupid to be prepared,,,

Yup some people are stupid. Guess what... that's not considered a reason to disenfranchise. But hey if you want a college degree to be a requirement, I don't think most Democrats would disagree.

As to excuses. Don't ask me for reasons if you consider them excuses. Again. You want millions of people to not vote for a problem that has occurred a bit over a dozen times since 2000. Does that sound reasonable to you?

I want everyone to vote,, just have to prove its them voting just like we require in every other important thing people do,,

now if you want to be consistent and do away with all ID requirements then we can talk,, I suggest you start with gun purchases and then move to driving and work your way down from there,,,

otherwise youre a lying hypocrite,,,

You want everybody to vote providing they prove it's them? Voter ID Laws - Vote.org This already happens.

Going for another strawman I see? Where do I say here, or anywhere that I want to get rid of ID requirements?

Not for nothing, this is getting tedious. So far I've seen you use 2 strawmen, ask a question to take my answer as "excuses" and in general refuse to engage my actual premises, and now trying to do an appeal to hypocrisy... badly I might add.

I like arguing and thanks for at least refraining from being impolite, but at some point it gets boring.

then what have you and all the others been complaining about???

We are not the ones complaining about voter fraud and the need to make the elections more secure than they are. You are the person complaining. Complaining about a non-existent problem I might add. What we are complaining about is the fact that upping the requirements for voting by default lowers turnout without the changes being justified.

EVERY SINGLE STATE HAS A WAY TO VERIFY THE VOTER, NOT ALL STATES HAVE AN ID REQUIREMENT. I'VE SAID THIS NOW 3 TIMES. Maybe if you weren't dodging my premises so much it would have sunk in?

so youre OK if we get rid of IDs for gun purchases??? and all the other things its needed for??

I smell a hypocrite,,

As long as there's another way provided to verify the person's identity get rid of them. Just like happens now in regards to voting.

but its not happening in voting,,

a person walks in and votes and at no time do those verifications follow up because they cant,,

now in gun purchases I walk in buy a gun without giving ID how do they later confirm who I was??

I'm done engaging on a logical fallacy

you shouldnt have presented one then,,

Oh really? What fallacy is that then? Feel free to point it out, I try to be aware of them so give it your best shot. Yours is called an appeal to hypocrisy. More specifically even if you could establish that I hold different standards between voting and gun purchases it would not make my argument against voter ID any less valid.

I really cant figure out what you are saying. I take fault in that.

S, if I may......may I make this easier for me to understand?

To get a picture ID, which is required for many activities in the US such as....well....living, flying, mortgages, car leases, entry into a most venues......and all you need is a birth certificate and a bill with your name and address …..exactly why would you not get that picture ID?

I don't know what the reason would be neither is it all that important. The point is that some people don't or they simply forget or they have lost it. They are then not allowed to vote, I would argue a very basic right. At the moment since 2000 exactly 14 people have been convicted for impersonating a voter, telling me that that requirement doesn't add anything to security. Knowing that and knowing that millions of people who can potentially vote don't have an ID it seems unnecessary.

Where I disagree is where you say it is a very basic right. So is being able to get a license to drive. So is being able to get a COVID Vaccine when your turn comes up. So is being able to use a credit card. People tend to never forget their ID's for that.
But voting is not just a basic right in my eyes. It is also a privilege as an American citizen.
When I vote, I feel proud as I am sure you do.
But if I went to vote and forgot my ID or my bottle of water or my crab leg salad, that's on me....not on someone who wonders whether or not their vote is being cancelled out by someone who did one of two things.....not take it seriously enough to bring their ID or not eligible to vote.
Im sorry....but truth is....negligence rarely is a defense. An explanation? Yes. An excuse? No.

It's an artful dodge but a dodge nonetheless. I see you are not really engaging my main premise. Mainly that voter ID doesn't have a meaningful impact on voter security. It's why your argument seems to fall flat.

What you are left with is arguing for an arbitrary voter requirement with as only justification that not having it is negligence and therefore none of your concern.

Would you accept me purely as an example require you to learn to speak Dutch as a prerequisite to vote? After all, everybody can learn to do so in a few months of dedicated application, and not doing so for the privilege of voting is negligent?

 

[progressive hunter]

wheres there a strawman involved???

Unless you can find me saying anywhere here that I don't want secure elections it is a strawman.

I can not support voter ID and still want secure elections. As is shown by the fact that in 2016 there was an election after which a commission was formed to investigate voter fraud and none was found even with the full force of the government behind it. It is shown by this election that had literally hundreds of thousands of people looking for it. The full right-wing media establishment looking for it and be prepared to highlight every case that was found. The DOJ said no, judges said no, even lawyers who were litigating for Trump said they were not aware of voter fraud in court. All of this without a voter ID requirement in all states.

Give me added security that doesn't decrease turnout and I'm for it. Any measure that does decrease turnout requires anybody making a CREDIBLE assertion that would warrant that change.

Trying to establish that voter ID is the only way to have secure elections is simply false.

give me one good reason not to have them show the same ID when they vote that they used to register with??

or didnt you know they have to show ID to register??

Because ID's expire. Because people forget to bring it. Because very few cases of impersonating a voter have occurred. Because there are other ways to verify identity.

I just gave 4.

those are piss poor excuses since they have 2 yrs to prepare for it,,

sounds like youre saying some people are to stupid to be prepared,,,

Yup some people are stupid. Guess what... that's not considered a reason to disenfranchise. But hey if you want a college degree to be a requirement, I don't think most Democrats would disagree.

As to excuses. Don't ask me for reasons if you consider them excuses. Again. You want millions of people to not vote for a problem that has occurred a bit over a dozen times since 2000. Does that sound reasonable to you?

I want everyone to vote,, just have to prove its them voting just like we require in every other important thing people do,,

now if you want to be consistent and do away with all ID requirements then we can talk,, I suggest you start with gun purchases and then move to driving and work your way down from there,,,

otherwise youre a lying hypocrite,,,

You want everybody to vote providing they prove it's them? Voter ID Laws - Vote.org This already happens.

Going for another strawman I see? Where do I say here, or anywhere that I want to get rid of ID requirements?

Not for nothing, this is getting tedious. So far I've seen you use 2 strawmen, ask a question to take my answer as "excuses" and in general refuse to engage my actual premises, and now trying to do an appeal to hypocrisy... badly I might add.

I like arguing and thanks for at least refraining from being impolite, but at some point it gets boring.

then what have you and all the others been complaining about???

We are not the ones complaining about voter fraud and the need to make the elections more secure than they are. You are the person complaining. Complaining about a non-existent problem I might add. What we are complaining about is the fact that upping the requirements for voting by default lowers turnout without the changes being justified.

EVERY SINGLE STATE HAS A WAY TO VERIFY THE VOTER, NOT ALL STATES HAVE AN ID REQUIREMENT. I'VE SAID THIS NOW 3 TIMES. Maybe if you weren't dodging my premises so much it would have sunk in?

so youre OK if we get rid of IDs for gun purchases??? and all the other things its needed for??

I smell a hypocrite,,

As long as there's another way provided to verify the person's identity get rid of them. Just like happens now in regards to voting.

but its not happening in voting,,

a person walks in and votes and at no time do those verifications follow up because they cant,,

now in gun purchases I walk in buy a gun without giving ID how do they later confirm who I was??

I'm done engaging on a logical fallacy

you shouldnt have presented one then,,

Oh really? What fallacy is that then? Feel free to point it out, I try to be aware of them so give it your best shot. Yours is called an appeal to hypocrisy. More specifically even if you could establish that I hold different standards between voting and gun purchases it would not make my argument against voter ID any less valid.

I really cant figure out what you are saying. I take fault in that.

S, if I may......may I make this easier for me to understand?

To get a picture ID, which is required for many activities in the US such as....well....living, flying, mortgages, car leases, entry into a most venues......and all you need is a birth certificate and a bill with your name and address …..exactly why would you not get that picture ID?

I don't know what the reason would be neither is it all that important. The point is that some people don't or they simply forget or they have lost it. They are then not allowed to vote, I would argue a very basic right. At the moment since 2000 exactly 14 people have been convicted for impersonating a voter, telling me that that requirement doesn't add anything to security. Knowing that and knowing that millions of people who can potentially vote don't have an ID it seems unnecessary.

Where I disagree is where you say it is a very basic right. So is being able to get a license to drive. So is being able to get a COVID Vaccine when your turn comes up. So is being able to use a credit card. People tend to never forget their ID's for that.
But voting is not just a basic right in my eyes. It is also a privilege as an American citizen.
When I vote, I feel proud as I am sure you do.
But if I went to vote and forgot my ID or my bottle of water or my crab leg salad, that's on me....not on someone who wonders whether or not their vote is being cancelled out by someone who did one of two things.....not take it seriously enough to bring their ID or not eligible to vote.
Im sorry....but truth is....negligence rarely is a defense. An explanation? Yes. An excuse? No.

It's an artful dodge but a dodge nonetheless. I see you are not really engaging my main premise. Mainly that voter ID doesn't have a meaningful impact on voter security. It's why your argument seems to fall flat.

What you are left with is arguing for an arbitrary voter requirement with as only justification that not having it is negligence and therefore none of your concern.

Would you accept me purely as an example require you to learn to speak Dutch as a prerequisite to vote? After all, everybody can learn to do so in a few months of dedicated application, and not doing so for the privilege of voting is negligent?

now whos using straw man arguments???

 

[forkup]

wheres there a strawman involved???

Unless you can find me saying anywhere here that I don't want secure elections it is a strawman.

I can not support voter ID and still want secure elections. As is shown by the fact that in 2016 there was an election after which a commission was formed to investigate voter fraud and none was found even with the full force of the government behind it. It is shown by this election that had literally hundreds of thousands of people looking for it. The full right-wing media establishment looking for it and be prepared to highlight every case that was found. The DOJ said no, judges said no, even lawyers who were litigating for Trump said they were not aware of voter fraud in court. All of this without a voter ID requirement in all states.

Give me added security that doesn't decrease turnout and I'm for it. Any measure that does decrease turnout requires anybody making a CREDIBLE assertion that would warrant that change.

Trying to establish that voter ID is the only way to have secure elections is simply false.

give me one good reason not to have them show the same ID when they vote that they used to register with??

or didnt you know they have to show ID to register??

Because ID's expire. Because people forget to bring it. Because very few cases of impersonating a voter have occurred. Because there are other ways to verify identity.

I just gave 4.

those are piss poor excuses since they have 2 yrs to prepare for it,,

sounds like youre saying some people are to stupid to be prepared,,,

Yup some people are stupid. Guess what... that's not considered a reason to disenfranchise. But hey if you want a college degree to be a requirement, I don't think most Democrats would disagree.

As to excuses. Don't ask me for reasons if you consider them excuses. Again. You want millions of people to not vote for a problem that has occurred a bit over a dozen times since 2000. Does that sound reasonable to you?

I want everyone to vote,, just have to prove its them voting just like we require in every other important thing people do,,

now if you want to be consistent and do away with all ID requirements then we can talk,, I suggest you start with gun purchases and then move to driving and work your way down from there,,,

otherwise youre a lying hypocrite,,,

You want everybody to vote providing they prove it's them? Voter ID Laws - Vote.org This already happens.

Going for another strawman I see? Where do I say here, or anywhere that I want to get rid of ID requirements?

Not for nothing, this is getting tedious. So far I've seen you use 2 strawmen, ask a question to take my answer as "excuses" and in general refuse to engage my actual premises, and now trying to do an appeal to hypocrisy... badly I might add.

I like arguing and thanks for at least refraining from being impolite, but at some point it gets boring.

then what have you and all the others been complaining about???

We are not the ones complaining about voter fraud and the need to make the elections more secure than they are. You are the person complaining. Complaining about a non-existent problem I might add. What we are complaining about is the fact that upping the requirements for voting by default lowers turnout without the changes being justified.

EVERY SINGLE STATE HAS A WAY TO VERIFY THE VOTER, NOT ALL STATES HAVE AN ID REQUIREMENT. I'VE SAID THIS NOW 3 TIMES. Maybe if you weren't dodging my premises so much it would have sunk in?

so youre OK if we get rid of IDs for gun purchases??? and all the other things its needed for??

I smell a hypocrite,,

As long as there's another way provided to verify the person's identity get rid of them. Just like happens now in regards to voting.

but its not happening in voting,,

a person walks in and votes and at no time do those verifications follow up because they cant,,

now in gun purchases I walk in buy a gun without giving ID how do they later confirm who I was??

I'm done engaging on a logical fallacy

you shouldnt have presented one then,,

Oh really? What fallacy is that then? Feel free to point it out, I try to be aware of them so give it your best shot. Yours is called an appeal to hypocrisy. More specifically even if you could establish that I hold different standards between voting and gun purchases it would not make my argument against voter ID any less valid.

I really cant figure out what you are saying. I take fault in that.

S, if I may......may I make this easier for me to understand?

To get a picture ID, which is required for many activities in the US such as....well....living, flying, mortgages, car leases, entry into a most venues......and all you need is a birth certificate and a bill with your name and address …..exactly why would you not get that picture ID?

I don't know what the reason would be neither is it all that important. The point is that some people don't or they simply forget or they have lost it. They are then not allowed to vote, I would argue a very basic right. At the moment since 2000 exactly 14 people have been convicted for impersonating a voter, telling me that that requirement doesn't add anything to security. Knowing that and knowing that millions of people who can potentially vote don't have an ID it seems unnecessary.

Where I disagree is where you say it is a very basic right. So is being able to get a license to drive. So is being able to get a COVID Vaccine when your turn comes up. So is being able to use a credit card. People tend to never forget their ID's for that.
But voting is not just a basic right in my eyes. It is also a privilege as an American citizen.
When I vote, I feel proud as I am sure you do.
But if I went to vote and forgot my ID or my bottle of water or my crab leg salad, that's on me....not on someone who wonders whether or not their vote is being cancelled out by someone who did one of two things.....not take it seriously enough to bring their ID or not eligible to vote.
Im sorry....but truth is....negligence rarely is a defense. An explanation? Yes. An excuse? No.

It's an artful dodge but a dodge nonetheless. I see you are not really engaging my main premise. Mainly that voter ID doesn't have a meaningful impact on voter security. It's why your argument seems to fall flat.

What you are left with is arguing for an arbitrary voter requirement with as only justification that not having it is negligence and therefore none of your concern.

Would you accept me purely as an example require you to learn to speak Dutch as a prerequisite to vote? After all, everybody can learn to do so in a few months of dedicated application, and not doing so for the privilege of voting is negligent?

now whos using straw man arguments???

Here we go again. Point out the strawman, please? See, when I say you commit a fallacy I'm perfectly willing and able to be specific about it.

 

[progressive hunter]

wheres there a strawman involved???

Unless you can find me saying anywhere here that I don't want secure elections it is a strawman.

I can not support voter ID and still want secure elections. As is shown by the fact that in 2016 there was an election after which a commission was formed to investigate voter fraud and none was found even with the full force of the government behind it. It is shown by this election that had literally hundreds of thousands of people looking for it. The full right-wing media establishment looking for it and be prepared to highlight every case that was found. The DOJ said no, judges said no, even lawyers who were litigating for Trump said they were not aware of voter fraud in court. All of this without a voter ID requirement in all states.

Give me added security that doesn't decrease turnout and I'm for it. Any measure that does decrease turnout requires anybody making a CREDIBLE assertion that would warrant that change.

Trying to establish that voter ID is the only way to have secure elections is simply false.

give me one good reason not to have them show the same ID when they vote that they used to register with??

or didnt you know they have to show ID to register??

Because ID's expire. Because people forget to bring it. Because very few cases of impersonating a voter have occurred. Because there are other ways to verify identity.

I just gave 4.

those are piss poor excuses since they have 2 yrs to prepare for it,,

sounds like youre saying some people are to stupid to be prepared,,,

Yup some people are stupid. Guess what... that's not considered a reason to disenfranchise. But hey if you want a college degree to be a requirement, I don't think most Democrats would disagree.

As to excuses. Don't ask me for reasons if you consider them excuses. Again. You want millions of people to not vote for a problem that has occurred a bit over a dozen times since 2000. Does that sound reasonable to you?

I want everyone to vote,, just have to prove its them voting just like we require in every other important thing people do,,

now if you want to be consistent and do away with all ID requirements then we can talk,, I suggest you start with gun purchases and then move to driving and work your way down from there,,,

otherwise youre a lying hypocrite,,,

You want everybody to vote providing they prove it's them? Voter ID Laws - Vote.org This already happens.

Going for another strawman I see? Where do I say here, or anywhere that I want to get rid of ID requirements?

Not for nothing, this is getting tedious. So far I've seen you use 2 strawmen, ask a question to take my answer as "excuses" and in general refuse to engage my actual premises, and now trying to do an appeal to hypocrisy... badly I might add.

I like arguing and thanks for at least refraining from being impolite, but at some point it gets boring.

then what have you and all the others been complaining about???

We are not the ones complaining about voter fraud and the need to make the elections more secure than they are. You are the person complaining. Complaining about a non-existent problem I might add. What we are complaining about is the fact that upping the requirements for voting by default lowers turnout without the changes being justified.

EVERY SINGLE STATE HAS A WAY TO VERIFY THE VOTER, NOT ALL STATES HAVE AN ID REQUIREMENT. I'VE SAID THIS NOW 3 TIMES. Maybe if you weren't dodging my premises so much it would have sunk in?

so youre OK if we get rid of IDs for gun purchases??? and all the other things its needed for??

I smell a hypocrite,,

As long as there's another way provided to verify the person's identity get rid of them. Just like happens now in regards to voting.

but its not happening in voting,,

a person walks in and votes and at no time do those verifications follow up because they cant,,

now in gun purchases I walk in buy a gun without giving ID how do they later confirm who I was??

I'm done engaging on a logical fallacy

you shouldnt have presented one then,,

Oh really? What fallacy is that then? Feel free to point it out, I try to be aware of them so give it your best shot. Yours is called an appeal to hypocrisy. More specifically even if you could establish that I hold different standards between voting and gun purchases it would not make my argument against voter ID any less valid.

I really cant figure out what you are saying. I take fault in that.

S, if I may......may I make this easier for me to understand?

To get a picture ID, which is required for many activities in the US such as....well....living, flying, mortgages, car leases, entry into a most venues......and all you need is a birth certificate and a bill with your name and address …..exactly why would you not get that picture ID?

I don't know what the reason would be neither is it all that important. The point is that some people don't or they simply forget or they have lost it. They are then not allowed to vote, I would argue a very basic right. At the moment since 2000 exactly 14 people have been convicted for impersonating a voter, telling me that that requirement doesn't add anything to security. Knowing that and knowing that millions of people who can potentially vote don't have an ID it seems unnecessary.

Where I disagree is where you say it is a very basic right. So is being able to get a license to drive. So is being able to get a COVID Vaccine when your turn comes up. So is being able to use a credit card. People tend to never forget their ID's for that.
But voting is not just a basic right in my eyes. It is also a privilege as an American citizen.
When I vote, I feel proud as I am sure you do.
But if I went to vote and forgot my ID or my bottle of water or my crab leg salad, that's on me....not on someone who wonders whether or not their vote is being cancelled out by someone who did one of two things.....not take it seriously enough to bring their ID or not eligible to vote.
Im sorry....but truth is....negligence rarely is a defense. An explanation? Yes. An excuse? No.

It's an artful dodge but a dodge nonetheless. I see you are not really engaging my main premise. Mainly that voter ID doesn't have a meaningful impact on voter security. It's why your argument seems to fall flat.

What you are left with is arguing for an arbitrary voter requirement with as only justification that not having it is negligence and therefore none of your concern.

Would you accept me purely as an example require you to learn to speak Dutch as a prerequisite to vote? After all, everybody can learn to do so in a few months of dedicated application, and not doing so for the privilege of voting is negligent?

now whos using straw man arguments???

Here we go again. Point out the strawman, please? See, when I say you commit a fallacy I'm perfectly willing and able to be specific about it.

requiring me to speak dutch?? how about you stick to the topic instead of bringing up stupid shit like that,,

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Thats a much better solution than all this bullshit...but leftists wont go for it because they do not want people to have to show ID to vote.

MLB and Delta can get together and start a project...”IDs for all”. They can make sure everyone who wants to vote gets an ID.

Advertise on TV, radio, podcasts...Say, “Cant afford an ID?” You or a friend call this toll free number. We will come to your house and take you to get an ID.

Problem solved!

Problem solved!

The GOP has yet to show it to be a problem anywhere despite years of crying.

just because you cant see something doesnt mean its there,,

Actually, I think what you where trying to say isn't there. Kind of critical in this context.

Here's the thing, unlike for instance the existence of God. The existence of massive voter fraud can be verified. Unlike God, there are active safeguards to make sure elections are honest. From recounts to ballot watchers, audits, to bipartisan election officials, to the DOJ who investigates fraud, to lawyers from both parties who litigate suspected fraud, to the bipartisan judicial system that rules onnthis litigation.

Saying that not seeing something doesn't mean it isn't there is a cliché that doesn't work in this context.

but who watches the watchers when the watchers wont let anyone watch them??

I'm not gonna waste my time in debunking all the myths you subject yourself to in your bubble, I will only say that NO claim of fraud or procedural objection was ruled favorable on by the courts.

the discussion is about voter iDs not fraud,,, so its understandable you wont waste time on it because there is no logical reason not to require an ID for one of the most important things we do as citizens of a country

Oh, really maybe the fact that millions of ELIGIBLE voter dont have an ID can be construed as a reason?

Or the fact that EVERY single state has a procedure to identify a voter and not all of them rely on a picture ID is a reason?

Or the fact that you nor anybody on the right can establish fraud to an extent that would warrant extra measures that would limit voting in any way?

I understand that to your narrative its better that you can detach what you would call voter security measures from actually being able to show they are necessary. But it is very relevant.

If the government wants to spend 1 trillion so they can arm against aliens I think you would require more than, "it's a possibility" as a justification.

So glad by the way you find voting the most important thing a citizen can do. Why wouldn't you want all eligible voters to do so than?

Can you give some examples of people who want to vote, but are being disenfranchised because they cannot obtain an ID?

Can you give some examples of people who want to vote, but are being disenfranchised because they cannot obtain an ID?

Students.

students dont know how to get an ID??

then how did they prove who they are to get into the school?? that requires an ID

students dont know how to get an ID??

then how did they prove who they are to get into the school?? that requires an ID

Student ID is not acceptable.
you’ll allow kids to use DLs from other states to vote?

How does someone get a Student ID, from a state ID/DL LOL. If a student moves to a different state they can vote in the new state if they register as a resident, but they should NOT vote back in their old state.

How does someone get a Student ID, from a state ID/DL LOL. If a student moves to a different state they can vote in the new state if they register as a resident, but they should NOT vote back in their old state.

Then the student ID has been vetted by a state ID and should be fine for voting. No?

correct,, so you have no problem with requiring an ID to vote??

correct,, so you have no problem with requiring an ID to vote??

So why then do Republicans not accept student IDs for voting everywhere?

 

[progressive hunter]

Thats a much better solution than all this bullshit...but leftists wont go for it because they do not want people to have to show ID to vote.

MLB and Delta can get together and start a project...”IDs for all”. They can make sure everyone who wants to vote gets an ID.

Advertise on TV, radio, podcasts...Say, “Cant afford an ID?” You or a friend call this toll free number. We will come to your house and take you to get an ID.

Problem solved!

Problem solved!

The GOP has yet to show it to be a problem anywhere despite years of crying.

just because you cant see something doesnt mean its there,,

Actually, I think what you where trying to say isn't there. Kind of critical in this context.

Here's the thing, unlike for instance the existence of God. The existence of massive voter fraud can be verified. Unlike God, there are active safeguards to make sure elections are honest. From recounts to ballot watchers, audits, to bipartisan election officials, to the DOJ who investigates fraud, to lawyers from both parties who litigate suspected fraud, to the bipartisan judicial system that rules onnthis litigation.

Saying that not seeing something doesn't mean it isn't there is a cliché that doesn't work in this context.

but who watches the watchers when the watchers wont let anyone watch them??

I'm not gonna waste my time in debunking all the myths you subject yourself to in your bubble, I will only say that NO claim of fraud or procedural objection was ruled favorable on by the courts.

the discussion is about voter iDs not fraud,,, so its understandable you wont waste time on it because there is no logical reason not to require an ID for one of the most important things we do as citizens of a country

Oh, really maybe the fact that millions of ELIGIBLE voter dont have an ID can be construed as a reason?

Or the fact that EVERY single state has a procedure to identify a voter and not all of them rely on a picture ID is a reason?

Or the fact that you nor anybody on the right can establish fraud to an extent that would warrant extra measures that would limit voting in any way?

I understand that to your narrative its better that you can detach what you would call voter security measures from actually being able to show they are necessary. But it is very relevant.

If the government wants to spend 1 trillion so they can arm against aliens I think you would require more than, "it's a possibility" as a justification.

So glad by the way you find voting the most important thing a citizen can do. Why wouldn't you want all eligible voters to do so than?

Can you give some examples of people who want to vote, but are being disenfranchised because they cannot obtain an ID?

Can you give some examples of people who want to vote, but are being disenfranchised because they cannot obtain an ID?

Students.

students dont know how to get an ID??

then how did they prove who they are to get into the school?? that requires an ID

students dont know how to get an ID??

then how did they prove who they are to get into the school?? that requires an ID

Student ID is not acceptable.
you’ll allow kids to use DLs from other states to vote?

How does someone get a Student ID, from a state ID/DL LOL. If a student moves to a different state they can vote in the new state if they register as a resident, but they should NOT vote back in their old state.

How does someone get a Student ID, from a state ID/DL LOL. If a student moves to a different state they can vote in the new state if they register as a resident, but they should NOT vote back in their old state.

Then the student ID has been vetted by a state ID and should be fine for voting. No?

correct,, so you have no problem with requiring an ID to vote??

correct,, so you have no problem with requiring an ID to vote??

So why then do Republicans not accept student IDs for voting everywhere?

I'm not a republican so ask them,,

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Thats a much better solution than all this bullshit...but leftists wont go for it because they do not want people to have to show ID to vote.

MLB and Delta can get together and start a project...”IDs for all”. They can make sure everyone who wants to vote gets an ID.

Advertise on TV, radio, podcasts...Say, “Cant afford an ID?” You or a friend call this toll free number. We will come to your house and take you to get an ID.

Problem solved!

Problem solved!

The GOP has yet to show it to be a problem anywhere despite years of crying.

just because you cant see something doesnt mean its there,,

Actually, I think what you where trying to say isn't there. Kind of critical in this context.

Here's the thing, unlike for instance the existence of God. The existence of massive voter fraud can be verified. Unlike God, there are active safeguards to make sure elections are honest. From recounts to ballot watchers, audits, to bipartisan election officials, to the DOJ who investigates fraud, to lawyers from both parties who litigate suspected fraud, to the bipartisan judicial system that rules onnthis litigation.

Saying that not seeing something doesn't mean it isn't there is a cliché that doesn't work in this context.

but who watches the watchers when the watchers wont let anyone watch them??

I'm not gonna waste my time in debunking all the myths you subject yourself to in your bubble, I will only say that NO claim of fraud or procedural objection was ruled favorable on by the courts.

the discussion is about voter iDs not fraud,,, so its understandable you wont waste time on it because there is no logical reason not to require an ID for one of the most important things we do as citizens of a country

Oh, really maybe the fact that millions of ELIGIBLE voter dont have an ID can be construed as a reason?

Or the fact that EVERY single state has a procedure to identify a voter and not all of them rely on a picture ID is a reason?

Or the fact that you nor anybody on the right can establish fraud to an extent that would warrant extra measures that would limit voting in any way?

I understand that to your narrative its better that you can detach what you would call voter security measures from actually being able to show they are necessary. But it is very relevant.

If the government wants to spend 1 trillion so they can arm against aliens I think you would require more than, "it's a possibility" as a justification.

So glad by the way you find voting the most important thing a citizen can do. Why wouldn't you want all eligible voters to do so than?

Can you give some examples of people who want to vote, but are being disenfranchised because they cannot obtain an ID?

Can you give some examples of people who want to vote, but are being disenfranchised because they cannot obtain an ID?

Students.

students dont know how to get an ID??

then how did they prove who they are to get into the school?? that requires an ID

students dont know how to get an ID??

then how did they prove who they are to get into the school?? that requires an ID

Student ID is not acceptable.
you’ll allow kids to use DLs from other states to vote?

I'm not allowing anything,,, and when did I say "student id"???

I'm not allowing anything,,, and when did I say "student id"???

Derp....
How many states don’t allow student IDs for voting?

wouldnt know,,

wouldnt know,,

Derp....
Sooo...then you really don’t know how many voters are disenfranchised by these laws?

as far as I can see no one is disenfranchised when an photo ID is required,,

as far as I can see no one is disenfranchised when an photo ID is required,,

As far as you can see is nowhere because you don’t want to see it. Regardless of what you believe, there is far more evidence of the results of voter suppression initiatives than there is of fraud.

 

[progressive hunter]

Thats a much better solution than all this bullshit...but leftists wont go for it because they do not want people to have to show ID to vote.

MLB and Delta can get together and start a project...”IDs for all”. They can make sure everyone who wants to vote gets an ID.

Advertise on TV, radio, podcasts...Say, “Cant afford an ID?” You or a friend call this toll free number. We will come to your house and take you to get an ID.

Problem solved!

Problem solved!

The GOP has yet to show it to be a problem anywhere despite years of crying.

just because you cant see something doesnt mean its there,,

Actually, I think what you where trying to say isn't there. Kind of critical in this context.

Here's the thing, unlike for instance the existence of God. The existence of massive voter fraud can be verified. Unlike God, there are active safeguards to make sure elections are honest. From recounts to ballot watchers, audits, to bipartisan election officials, to the DOJ who investigates fraud, to lawyers from both parties who litigate suspected fraud, to the bipartisan judicial system that rules onnthis litigation.

Saying that not seeing something doesn't mean it isn't there is a cliché that doesn't work in this context.

but who watches the watchers when the watchers wont let anyone watch them??

I'm not gonna waste my time in debunking all the myths you subject yourself to in your bubble, I will only say that NO claim of fraud or procedural objection was ruled favorable on by the courts.

the discussion is about voter iDs not fraud,,, so its understandable you wont waste time on it because there is no logical reason not to require an ID for one of the most important things we do as citizens of a country

Oh, really maybe the fact that millions of ELIGIBLE voter dont have an ID can be construed as a reason?

Or the fact that EVERY single state has a procedure to identify a voter and not all of them rely on a picture ID is a reason?

Or the fact that you nor anybody on the right can establish fraud to an extent that would warrant extra measures that would limit voting in any way?

I understand that to your narrative its better that you can detach what you would call voter security measures from actually being able to show they are necessary. But it is very relevant.

If the government wants to spend 1 trillion so they can arm against aliens I think you would require more than, "it's a possibility" as a justification.

So glad by the way you find voting the most important thing a citizen can do. Why wouldn't you want all eligible voters to do so than?

Can you give some examples of people who want to vote, but are being disenfranchised because they cannot obtain an ID?

Can you give some examples of people who want to vote, but are being disenfranchised because they cannot obtain an ID?

Students.

students dont know how to get an ID??

then how did they prove who they are to get into the school?? that requires an ID

students dont know how to get an ID??

then how did they prove who they are to get into the school?? that requires an ID

Student ID is not acceptable.
you’ll allow kids to use DLs from other states to vote?

I'm not allowing anything,,, and when did I say "student id"???

I'm not allowing anything,,, and when did I say "student id"???

Derp....
How many states don’t allow student IDs for voting?

wouldnt know,,

wouldnt know,,

Derp....
Sooo...then you really don’t know how many voters are disenfranchised by these laws?

as far as I can see no one is disenfranchised when an photo ID is required,,

as far as I can see no one is disenfranchised when an photo ID is required,,

As far as you can see is nowhere because you don’t want to see it. Regardless of what you believe, there is far more evidence of the results of voter suppression initiatives than there is of fraud.

enlighten me??

 

[Oddball]

Thats a much better solution than all this bullshit...but leftists wont go for it because they do not want people to have to show ID to vote.

MLB and Delta can get together and start a project...”IDs for all”. They can make sure everyone who wants to vote gets an ID.

Advertise on TV, radio, podcasts...Say, “Cant afford an ID?” You or a friend call this toll free number. We will come to your house and take you to get an ID.

Problem solved!

Problem solved!

The GOP has yet to show it to be a problem anywhere despite years of crying.

just because you cant see something doesnt mean its there,,

Actually, I think what you where trying to say isn't there. Kind of critical in this context.

Here's the thing, unlike for instance the existence of God. The existence of massive voter fraud can be verified. Unlike God, there are active safeguards to make sure elections are honest. From recounts to ballot watchers, audits, to bipartisan election officials, to the DOJ who investigates fraud, to lawyers from both parties who litigate suspected fraud, to the bipartisan judicial system that rules onnthis litigation.

Saying that not seeing something doesn't mean it isn't there is a cliché that doesn't work in this context.

but who watches the watchers when the watchers wont let anyone watch them??

I'm not gonna waste my time in debunking all the myths you subject yourself to in your bubble, I will only say that NO claim of fraud or procedural objection was ruled favorable on by the courts.

Um, yes there was....And the court in Wisconsin that actually looked at the evidence ruled in favor of Trump.

So you're either poorly informed or lying out your ass...My money is on the latter.

 

[AMart]

Thats a much better solution than all this bullshit...but leftists wont go for it because they do not want people to have to show ID to vote.

MLB and Delta can get together and start a project...”IDs for all”. They can make sure everyone who wants to vote gets an ID.

Advertise on TV, radio, podcasts...Say, “Cant afford an ID?” You or a friend call this toll free number. We will come to your house and take you to get an ID.

Problem solved!

Problem solved!

The GOP has yet to show it to be a problem anywhere despite years of crying.

just because you cant see something doesnt mean its there,,

Actually, I think what you where trying to say isn't there. Kind of critical in this context.

Here's the thing, unlike for instance the existence of God. The existence of massive voter fraud can be verified. Unlike God, there are active safeguards to make sure elections are honest. From recounts to ballot watchers, audits, to bipartisan election officials, to the DOJ who investigates fraud, to lawyers from both parties who litigate suspected fraud, to the bipartisan judicial system that rules onnthis litigation.

Saying that not seeing something doesn't mean it isn't there is a cliché that doesn't work in this context.

but who watches the watchers when the watchers wont let anyone watch them??

I'm not gonna waste my time in debunking all the myths you subject yourself to in your bubble, I will only say that NO claim of fraud or procedural objection was ruled favorable on by the courts.

the discussion is about voter iDs not fraud,,, so its understandable you wont waste time on it because there is no logical reason not to require an ID for one of the most important things we do as citizens of a country

Oh, really maybe the fact that millions of ELIGIBLE voter dont have an ID can be construed as a reason?

Or the fact that EVERY single state has a procedure to identify a voter and not all of them rely on a picture ID is a reason?

Or the fact that you nor anybody on the right can establish fraud to an extent that would warrant extra measures that would limit voting in any way?

I understand that to your narrative its better that you can detach what you would call voter security measures from actually being able to show they are necessary. But it is very relevant.

If the government wants to spend 1 trillion so they can arm against aliens I think you would require more than, "it's a possibility" as a justification.

So glad by the way you find voting the most important thing a citizen can do. Why wouldn't you want all eligible voters to do so than?

Can you give some examples of people who want to vote, but are being disenfranchised because they cannot obtain an ID?

Can you give some examples of people who want to vote, but are being disenfranchised because they cannot obtain an ID?

Students.

students dont know how to get an ID??

then how did they prove who they are to get into the school?? that requires an ID

students dont know how to get an ID??

then how did they prove who they are to get into the school?? that requires an ID

Student ID is not acceptable.
you’ll allow kids to use DLs from other states to vote?

How does someone get a Student ID, from a state ID/DL LOL. If a student moves to a different state they can vote in the new state if they register as a resident, but they should NOT vote back in their old state.

How does someone get a Student ID, from a state ID/DL LOL. If a student moves to a different state they can vote in the new state if they register as a resident, but they should NOT vote back in their old state.

Then the student ID has been vetted by a state ID and should be fine for voting. No?

correct,, so you have no problem with requiring an ID to vote??

correct,, so you have no problem with requiring an ID to vote??

So why then do Republicans not accept student IDs for voting everywhere?

A college or university does not issue government IDs. Duh. You know to vote in government elections you need government ID.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Thats a much better solution than all this bullshit...but leftists wont go for it because they do not want people to have to show ID to vote.

MLB and Delta can get together and start a project...”IDs for all”. They can make sure everyone who wants to vote gets an ID.

Advertise on TV, radio, podcasts...Say, “Cant afford an ID?” You or a friend call this toll free number. We will come to your house and take you to get an ID.

Problem solved!

Problem solved!

The GOP has yet to show it to be a problem anywhere despite years of crying.

just because you cant see something doesnt mean its there,,

Actually, I think what you where trying to say isn't there. Kind of critical in this context.

Here's the thing, unlike for instance the existence of God. The existence of massive voter fraud can be verified. Unlike God, there are active safeguards to make sure elections are honest. From recounts to ballot watchers, audits, to bipartisan election officials, to the DOJ who investigates fraud, to lawyers from both parties who litigate suspected fraud, to the bipartisan judicial system that rules onnthis litigation.

Saying that not seeing something doesn't mean it isn't there is a cliché that doesn't work in this context.

but who watches the watchers when the watchers wont let anyone watch them??

I'm not gonna waste my time in debunking all the myths you subject yourself to in your bubble, I will only say that NO claim of fraud or procedural objection was ruled favorable on by the courts.

the discussion is about voter iDs not fraud,,, so its understandable you wont waste time on it because there is no logical reason not to require an ID for one of the most important things we do as citizens of a country

Oh, really maybe the fact that millions of ELIGIBLE voter dont have an ID can be construed as a reason?

Or the fact that EVERY single state has a procedure to identify a voter and not all of them rely on a picture ID is a reason?

Or the fact that you nor anybody on the right can establish fraud to an extent that would warrant extra measures that would limit voting in any way?

I understand that to your narrative its better that you can detach what you would call voter security measures from actually being able to show they are necessary. But it is very relevant.

If the government wants to spend 1 trillion so they can arm against aliens I think you would require more than, "it's a possibility" as a justification.

So glad by the way you find voting the most important thing a citizen can do. Why wouldn't you want all eligible voters to do so than?

Can you give some examples of people who want to vote, but are being disenfranchised because they cannot obtain an ID?

Can you give some examples of people who want to vote, but are being disenfranchised because they cannot obtain an ID?

Students.

students dont know how to get an ID??

then how did they prove who they are to get into the school?? that requires an ID

students dont know how to get an ID??

then how did they prove who they are to get into the school?? that requires an ID

Student ID is not acceptable.
you’ll allow kids to use DLs from other states to vote?

I'm not allowing anything,,, and when did I say "student id"???

I'm not allowing anything,,, and when did I say "student id"???

Derp....
How many states don’t allow student IDs for voting?

wouldnt know,,

wouldnt know,,

Derp....
Sooo...then you really don’t know how many voters are disenfranchised by these laws?

as far as I can see no one is disenfranchised when an photo ID is required,,

as far as I can see no one is disenfranchised when an photo ID is required,,

As far as you can see is nowhere because you don’t want to see it. Regardless of what you believe, there is far more evidence of the results of voter suppression initiatives than there is of fraud.

enlighten me??

enlighten me??

Enlighten yourself, dope. If you truly cared to know. You would.

 

[WEATHER53]

A drivers license will be under assault next. Also the laws that a muffler is necessary, bright lights not constantly on, turn signals, don’t let passengers off on a main road, dont drive 50 in left lane if 65mph road and other American driving standards that Hispanics can’t comply with
When you can’t obey law, get rid of the law-Lib 101