Instead of these boycotts and cries of RACISM, US Corporations and concerned citizens should make sure everyone has an ID

[Nostra]

Does anyone on this board know anyone who wants to vote, but cannot because they cannot obtain an ID?

Have they ever read about someone who wants to vote, but cannot obtain an ID?

Have they ever seen on TV someone who wants to vote, bit cannot obtain an ID?

BINGO!

I have challenged these idiots to link me up to a single instance of disenfranchisement, and I have yet to get one.

BINGO!

I have challenged these idiots to link me up to a single instance of disenfranchisement, and I have yet to get one.

Derp.....
The GOP has yet to show a problem with ID exists anywhere.

So you don’t have a single example of someone being disenfranchise.

So your entire argument is destroyed. Run along kid, you lost.

 

[Nostra]

Thats a much better solution than all this bullshit...but leftists wont go for it because they do not want people to have to show ID to vote.

MLB and Delta can get together and start a project...”IDs for all”. They can make sure everyone who wants to vote gets an ID.

Advertise on TV, radio, podcasts...Say, “Cant afford an ID?” You or a friend call this toll free number. We will come to your house and take you to get an ID.

Problem solved!

Problem solved!

The GOP has yet to show it to be a problem anywhere despite years of crying.

just because you cant see something doesnt mean its there,,

Actually, I think what you where trying to say isn't there. Kind of critical in this context.

Here's the thing, unlike for instance the existence of God. The existence of massive voter fraud can be verified. Unlike God, there are active safeguards to make sure elections are honest. From recounts to ballot watchers, audits, to bipartisan election officials, to the DOJ who investigates fraud, to lawyers from both parties who litigate suspected fraud, to the bipartisan judicial system that rules onnthis litigation.

Saying that not seeing something doesn't mean it isn't there is a cliché that doesn't work in this context.

but who watches the watchers when the watchers wont let anyone watch them??

I'm not gonna waste my time in debunking all the myths you subject yourself to in your bubble, I will only say that NO claim of fraud or procedural objection was ruled favorable on by the courts.

the discussion is about voter iDs not fraud,,, so its understandable you wont waste time on it because there is no logical reason not to require an ID for one of the most important things we do as citizens of a country

Oh, really maybe the fact that millions of ELIGIBLE voter dont have an ID can be construed as a reason?

Or the fact that EVERY single state has a procedure to identify a voter and not all of them rely on a picture ID is a reason?

Or the fact that you nor anybody on the right can establish fraud to an extent that would warrant extra measures that would limit voting in any way?

I understand that to your narrative its better that you can detach what you would call voter security measures from actually being able to show they are necessary. But it is very relevant.

If the government wants to spend 1 trillion so they can arm against aliens I think you would require more than, "it's a possibility" as a justification.

So glad by the way you find voting the most important thing a citizen can do. Why wouldn't you want all eligible voters to do so than?

Can you give some examples of people who want to vote, but are being disenfranchised because they cannot obtain an ID?

Can you give some examples of people who want to vote, but are being disenfranchised because they cannot obtain an ID?

Students.

How?

 

[Nostra]

Thats a much better solution than all this bullshit...but leftists wont go for it because they do not want people to have to show ID to vote.

MLB and Delta can get together and start a project...”IDs for all”. They can make sure everyone who wants to vote gets an ID.

Advertise on TV, radio, podcasts...Say, “Cant afford an ID?” You or a friend call this toll free number. We will come to your house and take you to get an ID.

Problem solved!

Problem solved!

The GOP has yet to show it to be a problem anywhere despite years of crying.

just because you cant see something doesnt mean its there,,

Actually, I think what you where trying to say isn't there. Kind of critical in this context.

Here's the thing, unlike for instance the existence of God. The existence of massive voter fraud can be verified. Unlike God, there are active safeguards to make sure elections are honest. From recounts to ballot watchers, audits, to bipartisan election officials, to the DOJ who investigates fraud, to lawyers from both parties who litigate suspected fraud, to the bipartisan judicial system that rules onnthis litigation.

Saying that not seeing something doesn't mean it isn't there is a cliché that doesn't work in this context.

but who watches the watchers when the watchers wont let anyone watch them??

I'm not gonna waste my time in debunking all the myths you subject yourself to in your bubble, I will only say that NO claim of fraud or procedural objection was ruled favorable on by the courts.

the discussion is about voter iDs not fraud,,, so its understandable you wont waste time on it because there is no logical reason not to require an ID for one of the most important things we do as citizens of a country

Oh, really maybe the fact that millions of ELIGIBLE voter dont have an ID can be construed as a reason?

Or the fact that EVERY single state has a procedure to identify a voter and not all of them rely on a picture ID is a reason?

Or the fact that you nor anybody on the right can establish fraud to an extent that would warrant extra measures that would limit voting in any way?

I understand that to your narrative its better that you can detach what you would call voter security measures from actually being able to show they are necessary. But it is very relevant.

If the government wants to spend 1 trillion so they can arm against aliens I think you would require more than, "it's a possibility" as a justification.

So glad by the way you find voting the most important thing a citizen can do. Why wouldn't you want all eligible voters to do so than?

Can you give some examples of people who want to vote, but are being disenfranchised because they cannot obtain an ID?

Can you give some examples of people who want to vote, but are being disenfranchised because they cannot obtain an ID?

Students.

students dont know how to get an ID??

then how did they prove who they are to get into the school?? that requires an ID

students dont know how to get an ID??

then how did they prove who they are to get into the school?? that requires an ID

Student ID is not acceptable.
you’ll allow kids to use DLs from other states to vote?

That’s what absentee voting is for.

Next dumbass argument?

 

[Nostra]

Thats a much better solution than all this bullshit...but leftists wont go for it because they do not want people to have to show ID to vote.

MLB and Delta can get together and start a project...”IDs for all”. They can make sure everyone who wants to vote gets an ID.

Advertise on TV, radio, podcasts...Say, “Cant afford an ID?” You or a friend call this toll free number. We will come to your house and take you to get an ID.

Problem solved!

Problem solved!

The GOP has yet to show it to be a problem anywhere despite years of crying.

just because you cant see something doesnt mean its there,,

Actually, I think what you where trying to say isn't there. Kind of critical in this context.

Here's the thing, unlike for instance the existence of God. The existence of massive voter fraud can be verified. Unlike God, there are active safeguards to make sure elections are honest. From recounts to ballot watchers, audits, to bipartisan election officials, to the DOJ who investigates fraud, to lawyers from both parties who litigate suspected fraud, to the bipartisan judicial system that rules onnthis litigation.

Saying that not seeing something doesn't mean it isn't there is a cliché that doesn't work in this context.

but who watches the watchers when the watchers wont let anyone watch them??

I'm not gonna waste my time in debunking all the myths you subject yourself to in your bubble, I will only say that NO claim of fraud or procedural objection was ruled favorable on by the courts.

the discussion is about voter iDs not fraud,,, so its understandable you wont waste time on it because there is no logical reason not to require an ID for one of the most important things we do as citizens of a country

Oh, really maybe the fact that millions of ELIGIBLE voter dont have an ID can be construed as a reason?

Or the fact that EVERY single state has a procedure to identify a voter and not all of them rely on a picture ID is a reason?

Or the fact that you nor anybody on the right can establish fraud to an extent that would warrant extra measures that would limit voting in any way?

I understand that to your narrative its better that you can detach what you would call voter security measures from actually being able to show they are necessary. But it is very relevant.

If the government wants to spend 1 trillion so they can arm against aliens I think you would require more than, "it's a possibility" as a justification.

So glad by the way you find voting the most important thing a citizen can do. Why wouldn't you want all eligible voters to do so than?

Can you give some examples of people who want to vote, but are being disenfranchised because they cannot obtain an ID?

Can you give some examples of people who want to vote, but are being disenfranchised because they cannot obtain an ID?

Students.

students dont know how to get an ID??

then how did they prove who they are to get into the school?? that requires an ID

Not to mention that most schools I know of issue a student ID that one then has to use for any and all student services. Certainly all colleges I've ever heard of do.

I'm thinking you need to show your state ID to get a student ID,,

Or enroll in college.

 

[Nostra]

Thats a much better solution than all this bullshit...but leftists wont go for it because they do not want people to have to show ID to vote.

MLB and Delta can get together and start a project...”IDs for all”. They can make sure everyone who wants to vote gets an ID.

Advertise on TV, radio, podcasts...Say, “Cant afford an ID?” You or a friend call this toll free number. We will come to your house and take you to get an ID.

Problem solved!

Problem solved!

The GOP has yet to show it to be a problem anywhere despite years of crying.

just because you cant see something doesnt mean its there,,

Actually, I think what you where trying to say isn't there. Kind of critical in this context.

Here's the thing, unlike for instance the existence of God. The existence of massive voter fraud can be verified. Unlike God, there are active safeguards to make sure elections are honest. From recounts to ballot watchers, audits, to bipartisan election officials, to the DOJ who investigates fraud, to lawyers from both parties who litigate suspected fraud, to the bipartisan judicial system that rules onnthis litigation.

Saying that not seeing something doesn't mean it isn't there is a cliché that doesn't work in this context.

but who watches the watchers when the watchers wont let anyone watch them??

I'm not gonna waste my time in debunking all the myths you subject yourself to in your bubble, I will only say that NO claim of fraud or procedural objection was ruled favorable on by the courts.

the discussion is about voter iDs not fraud,,, so its understandable you wont waste time on it because there is no logical reason not to require an ID for one of the most important things we do as citizens of a country

Oh, really maybe the fact that millions of ELIGIBLE voter dont have an ID can be construed as a reason?

Or the fact that EVERY single state has a procedure to identify a voter and not all of them rely on a picture ID is a reason?

Or the fact that you nor anybody on the right can establish fraud to an extent that would warrant extra measures that would limit voting in any way?

I understand that to your narrative its better that you can detach what you would call voter security measures from actually being able to show they are necessary. But it is very relevant.

If the government wants to spend 1 trillion so they can arm against aliens I think you would require more than, "it's a possibility" as a justification.

So glad by the way you find voting the most important thing a citizen can do. Why wouldn't you want all eligible voters to do so than?

Can you give some examples of people who want to vote, but are being disenfranchised because they cannot obtain an ID?

Can you give some examples of people who want to vote, but are being disenfranchised because they cannot obtain an ID?

Students.

students dont know how to get an ID??

then how did they prove who they are to get into the school?? that requires an ID

students dont know how to get an ID??

then how did they prove who they are to get into the school?? that requires an ID

Student ID is not acceptable.
you’ll allow kids to use DLs from other states to vote?

I'm not allowing anything,,, and when did I say "student id"???

I'm not allowing anything,,, and when did I say "student id"???

Derp....
How many states don’t allow student IDs for voting?

wouldnt know,,

wouldnt know,,

Derp....
Sooo...then you really don’t know how many voters are disenfranchised by these laws?

as far as I can see no one is disenfranchised when an photo ID is required,,

Elections: Issues Related to State Voter Identification Laws [Reissued on February 27, 2015] (gao.gov) This study begs to differ
I can give more.

Being too lazy to get an ID with 2 years notice is not the definition of being disenfranchised, it is the definition of lazy.

 

[ColonelAngus]

Thats a much better solution than all this bullshit...but leftists wont go for it because they do not want people to have to show ID to vote.

MLB and Delta can get together and start a project...”IDs for all”. They can make sure everyone who wants to vote gets an ID.

Advertise on TV, radio, podcasts...Say, “Cant afford an ID?” You or a friend call this toll free number. We will come to your house and take you to get an ID.

Problem solved!

Problem solved!

The GOP has yet to show it to be a problem anywhere despite years of crying.

just because you cant see something doesnt mean its there,,

Actually, I think what you where trying to say isn't there. Kind of critical in this context.

Here's the thing, unlike for instance the existence of God. The existence of massive voter fraud can be verified. Unlike God, there are active safeguards to make sure elections are honest. From recounts to ballot watchers, audits, to bipartisan election officials, to the DOJ who investigates fraud, to lawyers from both parties who litigate suspected fraud, to the bipartisan judicial system that rules onnthis litigation.

Saying that not seeing something doesn't mean it isn't there is a cliché that doesn't work in this context.

but who watches the watchers when the watchers wont let anyone watch them??

I'm not gonna waste my time in debunking all the myths you subject yourself to in your bubble, I will only say that NO claim of fraud or procedural objection was ruled favorable on by the courts.

the discussion is about voter iDs not fraud,,, so its understandable you wont waste time on it because there is no logical reason not to require an ID for one of the most important things we do as citizens of a country

Oh, really maybe the fact that millions of ELIGIBLE voter dont have an ID can be construed as a reason?

Or the fact that EVERY single state has a procedure to identify a voter and not all of them rely on a picture ID is a reason?

Or the fact that you nor anybody on the right can establish fraud to an extent that would warrant extra measures that would limit voting in any way?

I understand that to your narrative its better that you can detach what you would call voter security measures from actually being able to show they are necessary. But it is very relevant.

If the government wants to spend 1 trillion so they can arm against aliens I think you would require more than, "it's a possibility" as a justification.

So glad by the way you find voting the most important thing a citizen can do. Why wouldn't you want all eligible voters to do so than?

Can you give some examples of people who want to vote, but are being disenfranchised because they cannot obtain an ID?

Can you give some examples of people who want to vote, but are being disenfranchised because they cannot obtain an ID?

Students.

students dont know how to get an ID??

then how did they prove who they are to get into the school?? that requires an ID

students dont know how to get an ID??

then how did they prove who they are to get into the school?? that requires an ID

Student ID is not acceptable.
you’ll allow kids to use DLs from other states to vote?

I'm not allowing anything,,, and when did I say "student id"???

I'm not allowing anything,,, and when did I say "student id"???

Derp....
How many states don’t allow student IDs for voting?

wouldnt know,,

wouldnt know,,

Derp....
Sooo...then you really don’t know how many voters are disenfranchised by these laws?

as far as I can see no one is disenfranchised when an photo ID is required,,

Elections: Issues Related to State Voter Identification Laws [Reissued on February 27, 2015] (gao.gov) This study begs to differ
I can give more.

Being too lazy to get an ID with 2 years notice is not the definition of being disenfranchised, it is the definition of lazy.

Why cant I get anyone to give me examples of people who want to vote, but cannot obtain ID?

If I asked you for examples of black men killed by cops, you wouldnt be silent.

My only conclusion is that it is VERY VERY rare that someone wants to vote, but cannot obtain an ID.

 

[forkup]

wheres there a strawman involved???

Unless you can find me saying anywhere here that I don't want secure elections it is a strawman.

I can not support voter ID and still want secure elections. As is shown by the fact that in 2016 there was an election after which a commission was formed to investigate voter fraud and none was found even with the full force of the government behind it. It is shown by this election that had literally hundreds of thousands of people looking for it. The full right-wing media establishment looking for it and be prepared to highlight every case that was found. The DOJ said no, judges said no, even lawyers who were litigating for Trump said they were not aware of voter fraud in court. All of this without a voter ID requirement in all states.

Give me added security that doesn't decrease turnout and I'm for it. Any measure that does decrease turnout requires anybody making a CREDIBLE assertion that would warrant that change.

Trying to establish that voter ID is the only way to have secure elections is simply false.

give me one good reason not to have them show the same ID when they vote that they used to register with??

or didnt you know they have to show ID to register??

Because ID's expire. Because people forget to bring it. Because very few cases of impersonating a voter have occurred. Because there are other ways to verify identity.

I just gave 4.

those are piss poor excuses since they have 2 yrs to prepare for it,,

sounds like youre saying some people are to stupid to be prepared,,,

Yup some people are stupid. Guess what... that's not considered a reason to disenfranchise. But hey if you want a college degree to be a requirement, I don't think most Democrats would disagree.

As to excuses. Don't ask me for reasons if you consider them excuses. Again. You want millions of people to not vote for a problem that has occurred a bit over a dozen times since 2000. Does that sound reasonable to you?

I want everyone to vote,, just have to prove its them voting just like we require in every other important thing people do,,

now if you want to be consistent and do away with all ID requirements then we can talk,, I suggest you start with gun purchases and then move to driving and work your way down from there,,,

otherwise youre a lying hypocrite,,,

You want everybody to vote providing they prove it's them? Voter ID Laws - Vote.org This already happens.

Going for another strawman I see? Where do I say here, or anywhere that I want to get rid of ID requirements?

Not for nothing, this is getting tedious. So far I've seen you use 2 strawmen, ask a question to take my answer as "excuses" and in general refuse to engage my actual premises, and now trying to do an appeal to hypocrisy... badly I might add.

I like arguing and thanks for at least refraining from being impolite, but at some point it gets boring.

then what have you and all the others been complaining about???

We are not the ones complaining about voter fraud and the need to make the elections more secure than they are. You are the person complaining. Complaining about a non-existent problem I might add. What we are complaining about is the fact that upping the requirements for voting by default lowers turnout without the changes being justified.

EVERY SINGLE STATE HAS A WAY TO VERIFY THE VOTER, NOT ALL STATES HAVE AN ID REQUIREMENT. I'VE SAID THIS NOW 3 TIMES. Maybe if you weren't dodging my premises so much it would have sunk in?

 

[progressive hunter]

wheres there a strawman involved???

Unless you can find me saying anywhere here that I don't want secure elections it is a strawman.

I can not support voter ID and still want secure elections. As is shown by the fact that in 2016 there was an election after which a commission was formed to investigate voter fraud and none was found even with the full force of the government behind it. It is shown by this election that had literally hundreds of thousands of people looking for it. The full right-wing media establishment looking for it and be prepared to highlight every case that was found. The DOJ said no, judges said no, even lawyers who were litigating for Trump said they were not aware of voter fraud in court. All of this without a voter ID requirement in all states.

Give me added security that doesn't decrease turnout and I'm for it. Any measure that does decrease turnout requires anybody making a CREDIBLE assertion that would warrant that change.

Trying to establish that voter ID is the only way to have secure elections is simply false.

give me one good reason not to have them show the same ID when they vote that they used to register with??

or didnt you know they have to show ID to register??

Because ID's expire. Because people forget to bring it. Because very few cases of impersonating a voter have occurred. Because there are other ways to verify identity.

I just gave 4.

those are piss poor excuses since they have 2 yrs to prepare for it,,

sounds like youre saying some people are to stupid to be prepared,,,

Yup some people are stupid. Guess what... that's not considered a reason to disenfranchise. But hey if you want a college degree to be a requirement, I don't think most Democrats would disagree.

As to excuses. Don't ask me for reasons if you consider them excuses. Again. You want millions of people to not vote for a problem that has occurred a bit over a dozen times since 2000. Does that sound reasonable to you?

I want everyone to vote,, just have to prove its them voting just like we require in every other important thing people do,,

now if you want to be consistent and do away with all ID requirements then we can talk,, I suggest you start with gun purchases and then move to driving and work your way down from there,,,

otherwise youre a lying hypocrite,,,

You want everybody to vote providing they prove it's them? Voter ID Laws - Vote.org This already happens.

Going for another strawman I see? Where do I say here, or anywhere that I want to get rid of ID requirements?

Not for nothing, this is getting tedious. So far I've seen you use 2 strawmen, ask a question to take my answer as "excuses" and in general refuse to engage my actual premises, and now trying to do an appeal to hypocrisy... badly I might add.

I like arguing and thanks for at least refraining from being impolite, but at some point it gets boring.

then what have you and all the others been complaining about???

We are not the ones complaining about voter fraud and the need to make the elections more secure than they are. You are the person complaining. Complaining about a non-existent problem I might add. What we are complaining about is the fact that upping the requirements for voting by default lowers turnout without the changes being justified.

EVERY SINGLE STATE HAS A WAY TO VERIFY THE VOTER, NOT ALL STATES HAVE AN ID REQUIREMENT. I'VE SAID THIS NOW 3 TIMES. Maybe if you weren't dodging my premises so much it would have sunk in?

so youre OK if we get rid of IDs for gun purchases??? and all the other things its needed for??

I smell a hypocrite,,

 

[forkup]

wheres there a strawman involved???

Unless you can find me saying anywhere here that I don't want secure elections it is a strawman.

I can not support voter ID and still want secure elections. As is shown by the fact that in 2016 there was an election after which a commission was formed to investigate voter fraud and none was found even with the full force of the government behind it. It is shown by this election that had literally hundreds of thousands of people looking for it. The full right-wing media establishment looking for it and be prepared to highlight every case that was found. The DOJ said no, judges said no, even lawyers who were litigating for Trump said they were not aware of voter fraud in court. All of this without a voter ID requirement in all states.

Give me added security that doesn't decrease turnout and I'm for it. Any measure that does decrease turnout requires anybody making a CREDIBLE assertion that would warrant that change.

Trying to establish that voter ID is the only way to have secure elections is simply false.

give me one good reason not to have them show the same ID when they vote that they used to register with??

or didnt you know they have to show ID to register??

Because ID's expire. Because people forget to bring it. Because very few cases of impersonating a voter have occurred. Because there are other ways to verify identity.

I just gave 4.

those are piss poor excuses since they have 2 yrs to prepare for it,,

sounds like youre saying some people are to stupid to be prepared,,,

Yup some people are stupid. Guess what... that's not considered a reason to disenfranchise. But hey if you want a college degree to be a requirement, I don't think most Democrats would disagree.

As to excuses. Don't ask me for reasons if you consider them excuses. Again. You want millions of people to not vote for a problem that has occurred a bit over a dozen times since 2000. Does that sound reasonable to you?

I want everyone to vote,, just have to prove its them voting just like we require in every other important thing people do,,

now if you want to be consistent and do away with all ID requirements then we can talk,, I suggest you start with gun purchases and then move to driving and work your way down from there,,,

otherwise youre a lying hypocrite,,,

You want everybody to vote providing they prove it's them? Voter ID Laws - Vote.org This already happens.

Going for another strawman I see? Where do I say here, or anywhere that I want to get rid of ID requirements?

Not for nothing, this is getting tedious. So far I've seen you use 2 strawmen, ask a question to take my answer as "excuses" and in general refuse to engage my actual premises, and now trying to do an appeal to hypocrisy... badly I might add.

I like arguing and thanks for at least refraining from being impolite, but at some point it gets boring.

then what have you and all the others been complaining about???

We are not the ones complaining about voter fraud and the need to make the elections more secure than they are. You are the person complaining. Complaining about a non-existent problem I might add. What we are complaining about is the fact that upping the requirements for voting by default lowers turnout without the changes being justified.

EVERY SINGLE STATE HAS A WAY TO VERIFY THE VOTER, NOT ALL STATES HAVE AN ID REQUIREMENT. I'VE SAID THIS NOW 3 TIMES. Maybe if you weren't dodging my premises so much it would have sunk in?

so youre OK if we get rid of IDs for gun purchases??? and all the other things its needed for??

I smell a hypocrite,,

As long as there's another way provided to verify the person's identity get rid of them. Just like happens now in regards to voting.

As to what you smell. I think it's the stench of someone who can't muster the intellectual honesty to debate on the merits of the arguments. So logical fallacies and deflections are what is left.

 

[progressive hunter]

wheres there a strawman involved???

Unless you can find me saying anywhere here that I don't want secure elections it is a strawman.

I can not support voter ID and still want secure elections. As is shown by the fact that in 2016 there was an election after which a commission was formed to investigate voter fraud and none was found even with the full force of the government behind it. It is shown by this election that had literally hundreds of thousands of people looking for it. The full right-wing media establishment looking for it and be prepared to highlight every case that was found. The DOJ said no, judges said no, even lawyers who were litigating for Trump said they were not aware of voter fraud in court. All of this without a voter ID requirement in all states.

Give me added security that doesn't decrease turnout and I'm for it. Any measure that does decrease turnout requires anybody making a CREDIBLE assertion that would warrant that change.

Trying to establish that voter ID is the only way to have secure elections is simply false.

give me one good reason not to have them show the same ID when they vote that they used to register with??

or didnt you know they have to show ID to register??

Because ID's expire. Because people forget to bring it. Because very few cases of impersonating a voter have occurred. Because there are other ways to verify identity.

I just gave 4.

those are piss poor excuses since they have 2 yrs to prepare for it,,

sounds like youre saying some people are to stupid to be prepared,,,

Yup some people are stupid. Guess what... that's not considered a reason to disenfranchise. But hey if you want a college degree to be a requirement, I don't think most Democrats would disagree.

As to excuses. Don't ask me for reasons if you consider them excuses. Again. You want millions of people to not vote for a problem that has occurred a bit over a dozen times since 2000. Does that sound reasonable to you?

I want everyone to vote,, just have to prove its them voting just like we require in every other important thing people do,,

now if you want to be consistent and do away with all ID requirements then we can talk,, I suggest you start with gun purchases and then move to driving and work your way down from there,,,

otherwise youre a lying hypocrite,,,

You want everybody to vote providing they prove it's them? Voter ID Laws - Vote.org This already happens.

Going for another strawman I see? Where do I say here, or anywhere that I want to get rid of ID requirements?

Not for nothing, this is getting tedious. So far I've seen you use 2 strawmen, ask a question to take my answer as "excuses" and in general refuse to engage my actual premises, and now trying to do an appeal to hypocrisy... badly I might add.

I like arguing and thanks for at least refraining from being impolite, but at some point it gets boring.

then what have you and all the others been complaining about???

We are not the ones complaining about voter fraud and the need to make the elections more secure than they are. You are the person complaining. Complaining about a non-existent problem I might add. What we are complaining about is the fact that upping the requirements for voting by default lowers turnout without the changes being justified.

EVERY SINGLE STATE HAS A WAY TO VERIFY THE VOTER, NOT ALL STATES HAVE AN ID REQUIREMENT. I'VE SAID THIS NOW 3 TIMES. Maybe if you weren't dodging my premises so much it would have sunk in?

so youre OK if we get rid of IDs for gun purchases??? and all the other things its needed for??

I smell a hypocrite,,

As long as there's another way provided to verify the person's identity get rid of them. Just like happens now in regards to voting.

but its not happening in voting,,

a person walks in and votes and at no time do those verifications follow up because they cant,,

now in gun purchases I walk in buy a gun without giving ID how do they later confirm who I was??

 

[SC Patriot]

A picture ID is not the only form of ID you can use.

and what would those be??

and how can we help the stupid to get them??

a birth certificate works. A social security card help....A utility bill with yer name and address on it.

those are the things you use to get a picture ID.

Now, if you have those things, you can get a picture ID.

What is the advantage of a picture ID?

Try getting on a plane without one. Try getting a vaccine without one. Try using a credit card without one.

 

[forkup]

wheres there a strawman involved???

Unless you can find me saying anywhere here that I don't want secure elections it is a strawman.

I can not support voter ID and still want secure elections. As is shown by the fact that in 2016 there was an election after which a commission was formed to investigate voter fraud and none was found even with the full force of the government behind it. It is shown by this election that had literally hundreds of thousands of people looking for it. The full right-wing media establishment looking for it and be prepared to highlight every case that was found. The DOJ said no, judges said no, even lawyers who were litigating for Trump said they were not aware of voter fraud in court. All of this without a voter ID requirement in all states.

Give me added security that doesn't decrease turnout and I'm for it. Any measure that does decrease turnout requires anybody making a CREDIBLE assertion that would warrant that change.

Trying to establish that voter ID is the only way to have secure elections is simply false.

give me one good reason not to have them show the same ID when they vote that they used to register with??

or didnt you know they have to show ID to register??

Because ID's expire. Because people forget to bring it. Because very few cases of impersonating a voter have occurred. Because there are other ways to verify identity.

I just gave 4.

those are piss poor excuses since they have 2 yrs to prepare for it,,

sounds like youre saying some people are to stupid to be prepared,,,

Yup some people are stupid. Guess what... that's not considered a reason to disenfranchise. But hey if you want a college degree to be a requirement, I don't think most Democrats would disagree.

As to excuses. Don't ask me for reasons if you consider them excuses. Again. You want millions of people to not vote for a problem that has occurred a bit over a dozen times since 2000. Does that sound reasonable to you?

I want everyone to vote,, just have to prove its them voting just like we require in every other important thing people do,,

now if you want to be consistent and do away with all ID requirements then we can talk,, I suggest you start with gun purchases and then move to driving and work your way down from there,,,

otherwise youre a lying hypocrite,,,

You want everybody to vote providing they prove it's them? Voter ID Laws - Vote.org This already happens.

Going for another strawman I see? Where do I say here, or anywhere that I want to get rid of ID requirements?

Not for nothing, this is getting tedious. So far I've seen you use 2 strawmen, ask a question to take my answer as "excuses" and in general refuse to engage my actual premises, and now trying to do an appeal to hypocrisy... badly I might add.

I like arguing and thanks for at least refraining from being impolite, but at some point it gets boring.

then what have you and all the others been complaining about???

We are not the ones complaining about voter fraud and the need to make the elections more secure than they are. You are the person complaining. Complaining about a non-existent problem I might add. What we are complaining about is the fact that upping the requirements for voting by default lowers turnout without the changes being justified.

EVERY SINGLE STATE HAS A WAY TO VERIFY THE VOTER, NOT ALL STATES HAVE AN ID REQUIREMENT. I'VE SAID THIS NOW 3 TIMES. Maybe if you weren't dodging my premises so much it would have sunk in?

so youre OK if we get rid of IDs for gun purchases??? and all the other things its needed for??

I smell a hypocrite,,

As long as there's another way provided to verify the person's identity get rid of them. Just like happens now in regards to voting.

but its not happening in voting,,

a person walks in and votes and at no time do those verifications follow up because they cant,,

now in gun purchases I walk in buy a gun without giving ID how do they later confirm who I was??

I'm done engaging on a logical fallacy

 

[progressive hunter]

wheres there a strawman involved???

Unless you can find me saying anywhere here that I don't want secure elections it is a strawman.

I can not support voter ID and still want secure elections. As is shown by the fact that in 2016 there was an election after which a commission was formed to investigate voter fraud and none was found even with the full force of the government behind it. It is shown by this election that had literally hundreds of thousands of people looking for it. The full right-wing media establishment looking for it and be prepared to highlight every case that was found. The DOJ said no, judges said no, even lawyers who were litigating for Trump said they were not aware of voter fraud in court. All of this without a voter ID requirement in all states.

Give me added security that doesn't decrease turnout and I'm for it. Any measure that does decrease turnout requires anybody making a CREDIBLE assertion that would warrant that change.

Trying to establish that voter ID is the only way to have secure elections is simply false.

give me one good reason not to have them show the same ID when they vote that they used to register with??

or didnt you know they have to show ID to register??

Because ID's expire. Because people forget to bring it. Because very few cases of impersonating a voter have occurred. Because there are other ways to verify identity.

I just gave 4.

those are piss poor excuses since they have 2 yrs to prepare for it,,

sounds like youre saying some people are to stupid to be prepared,,,

Yup some people are stupid. Guess what... that's not considered a reason to disenfranchise. But hey if you want a college degree to be a requirement, I don't think most Democrats would disagree.

As to excuses. Don't ask me for reasons if you consider them excuses. Again. You want millions of people to not vote for a problem that has occurred a bit over a dozen times since 2000. Does that sound reasonable to you?

I want everyone to vote,, just have to prove its them voting just like we require in every other important thing people do,,

now if you want to be consistent and do away with all ID requirements then we can talk,, I suggest you start with gun purchases and then move to driving and work your way down from there,,,

otherwise youre a lying hypocrite,,,

You want everybody to vote providing they prove it's them? Voter ID Laws - Vote.org This already happens.

Going for another strawman I see? Where do I say here, or anywhere that I want to get rid of ID requirements?

Not for nothing, this is getting tedious. So far I've seen you use 2 strawmen, ask a question to take my answer as "excuses" and in general refuse to engage my actual premises, and now trying to do an appeal to hypocrisy... badly I might add.

I like arguing and thanks for at least refraining from being impolite, but at some point it gets boring.

then what have you and all the others been complaining about???

We are not the ones complaining about voter fraud and the need to make the elections more secure than they are. You are the person complaining. Complaining about a non-existent problem I might add. What we are complaining about is the fact that upping the requirements for voting by default lowers turnout without the changes being justified.

EVERY SINGLE STATE HAS A WAY TO VERIFY THE VOTER, NOT ALL STATES HAVE AN ID REQUIREMENT. I'VE SAID THIS NOW 3 TIMES. Maybe if you weren't dodging my premises so much it would have sunk in?

so youre OK if we get rid of IDs for gun purchases??? and all the other things its needed for??

I smell a hypocrite,,

As long as there's another way provided to verify the person's identity get rid of them. Just like happens now in regards to voting.

but its not happening in voting,,

a person walks in and votes and at no time do those verifications follow up because they cant,,

now in gun purchases I walk in buy a gun without giving ID how do they later confirm who I was??

I'm done engaging on a logical fallacy

you shouldnt have presented one then,,

 

[forkup]

wheres there a strawman involved???

Unless you can find me saying anywhere here that I don't want secure elections it is a strawman.

I can not support voter ID and still want secure elections. As is shown by the fact that in 2016 there was an election after which a commission was formed to investigate voter fraud and none was found even with the full force of the government behind it. It is shown by this election that had literally hundreds of thousands of people looking for it. The full right-wing media establishment looking for it and be prepared to highlight every case that was found. The DOJ said no, judges said no, even lawyers who were litigating for Trump said they were not aware of voter fraud in court. All of this without a voter ID requirement in all states.

Give me added security that doesn't decrease turnout and I'm for it. Any measure that does decrease turnout requires anybody making a CREDIBLE assertion that would warrant that change.

Trying to establish that voter ID is the only way to have secure elections is simply false.

give me one good reason not to have them show the same ID when they vote that they used to register with??

or didnt you know they have to show ID to register??

Because ID's expire. Because people forget to bring it. Because very few cases of impersonating a voter have occurred. Because there are other ways to verify identity.

I just gave 4.

those are piss poor excuses since they have 2 yrs to prepare for it,,

sounds like youre saying some people are to stupid to be prepared,,,

Yup some people are stupid. Guess what... that's not considered a reason to disenfranchise. But hey if you want a college degree to be a requirement, I don't think most Democrats would disagree.

As to excuses. Don't ask me for reasons if you consider them excuses. Again. You want millions of people to not vote for a problem that has occurred a bit over a dozen times since 2000. Does that sound reasonable to you?

I want everyone to vote,, just have to prove its them voting just like we require in every other important thing people do,,

now if you want to be consistent and do away with all ID requirements then we can talk,, I suggest you start with gun purchases and then move to driving and work your way down from there,,,

otherwise youre a lying hypocrite,,,

You want everybody to vote providing they prove it's them? Voter ID Laws - Vote.org This already happens.

Going for another strawman I see? Where do I say here, or anywhere that I want to get rid of ID requirements?

Not for nothing, this is getting tedious. So far I've seen you use 2 strawmen, ask a question to take my answer as "excuses" and in general refuse to engage my actual premises, and now trying to do an appeal to hypocrisy... badly I might add.

I like arguing and thanks for at least refraining from being impolite, but at some point it gets boring.

then what have you and all the others been complaining about???

We are not the ones complaining about voter fraud and the need to make the elections more secure than they are. You are the person complaining. Complaining about a non-existent problem I might add. What we are complaining about is the fact that upping the requirements for voting by default lowers turnout without the changes being justified.

EVERY SINGLE STATE HAS A WAY TO VERIFY THE VOTER, NOT ALL STATES HAVE AN ID REQUIREMENT. I'VE SAID THIS NOW 3 TIMES. Maybe if you weren't dodging my premises so much it would have sunk in?

so youre OK if we get rid of IDs for gun purchases??? and all the other things its needed for??

I smell a hypocrite,,

As long as there's another way provided to verify the person's identity get rid of them. Just like happens now in regards to voting.

but its not happening in voting,,

a person walks in and votes and at no time do those verifications follow up because they cant,,

now in gun purchases I walk in buy a gun without giving ID how do they later confirm who I was??

I'm done engaging on a logical fallacy

you shouldnt have presented one then,,

Oh really? What fallacy is that then? Feel free to point it out, I try to be aware of them so give it your best shot. Yours is called an appeal to hypocrisy. More specifically even if you could establish that I hold different standards between voting and gun purchases it would not make my argument against voter ID any less valid.

 

[Lastamender]

A picture ID is not the only form of ID you can use.

It is the only one banks will take. In fact, it is needed to fly, drive, and should be required to vote.

 

[SC Patriot]

wheres there a strawman involved???

Unless you can find me saying anywhere here that I don't want secure elections it is a strawman.

I can not support voter ID and still want secure elections. As is shown by the fact that in 2016 there was an election after which a commission was formed to investigate voter fraud and none was found even with the full force of the government behind it. It is shown by this election that had literally hundreds of thousands of people looking for it. The full right-wing media establishment looking for it and be prepared to highlight every case that was found. The DOJ said no, judges said no, even lawyers who were litigating for Trump said they were not aware of voter fraud in court. All of this without a voter ID requirement in all states.

Give me added security that doesn't decrease turnout and I'm for it. Any measure that does decrease turnout requires anybody making a CREDIBLE assertion that would warrant that change.

Trying to establish that voter ID is the only way to have secure elections is simply false.

give me one good reason not to have them show the same ID when they vote that they used to register with??

or didnt you know they have to show ID to register??

Because ID's expire. Because people forget to bring it. Because very few cases of impersonating a voter have occurred. Because there are other ways to verify identity.

I just gave 4.

those are piss poor excuses since they have 2 yrs to prepare for it,,

sounds like youre saying some people are to stupid to be prepared,,,

Yup some people are stupid. Guess what... that's not considered a reason to disenfranchise. But hey if you want a college degree to be a requirement, I don't think most Democrats would disagree.

As to excuses. Don't ask me for reasons if you consider them excuses. Again. You want millions of people to not vote for a problem that has occurred a bit over a dozen times since 2000. Does that sound reasonable to you?

I want everyone to vote,, just have to prove its them voting just like we require in every other important thing people do,,

now if you want to be consistent and do away with all ID requirements then we can talk,, I suggest you start with gun purchases and then move to driving and work your way down from there,,,

otherwise youre a lying hypocrite,,,

You want everybody to vote providing they prove it's them? Voter ID Laws - Vote.org This already happens.

Going for another strawman I see? Where do I say here, or anywhere that I want to get rid of ID requirements?

Not for nothing, this is getting tedious. So far I've seen you use 2 strawmen, ask a question to take my answer as "excuses" and in general refuse to engage my actual premises, and now trying to do an appeal to hypocrisy... badly I might add.

I like arguing and thanks for at least refraining from being impolite, but at some point it gets boring.

then what have you and all the others been complaining about???

We are not the ones complaining about voter fraud and the need to make the elections more secure than they are. You are the person complaining. Complaining about a non-existent problem I might add. What we are complaining about is the fact that upping the requirements for voting by default lowers turnout without the changes being justified.

EVERY SINGLE STATE HAS A WAY TO VERIFY THE VOTER, NOT ALL STATES HAVE AN ID REQUIREMENT. I'VE SAID THIS NOW 3 TIMES. Maybe if you weren't dodging my premises so much it would have sunk in?

so youre OK if we get rid of IDs for gun purchases??? and all the other things its needed for??

I smell a hypocrite,,

As long as there's another way provided to verify the person's identity get rid of them. Just like happens now in regards to voting.

but its not happening in voting,,

a person walks in and votes and at no time do those verifications follow up because they cant,,

now in gun purchases I walk in buy a gun without giving ID how do they later confirm who I was??

I'm done engaging on a logical fallacy

you shouldnt have presented one then,,

Oh really? What fallacy is that then? Feel free to point it out, I try to be aware of them so give it your best shot. Yours is called an appeal to hypocrisy. More specifically even if you could establish that I hold different standards between voting and gun purchases it would not make my argument against voter ID any less valid.

I really cant figure out what you are saying. I take fault in that.

S, if I may......may I make this easier for me to understand?

To get a picture ID, which is required for many activities in the US such as....well....living, flying, mortgages, car leases, entry into a most venues......and all you need is a birth certificate and a bill with your name and address …..exactly why would you not get that picture ID?

 

[forkup]

wheres there a strawman involved???

Unless you can find me saying anywhere here that I don't want secure elections it is a strawman.

I can not support voter ID and still want secure elections. As is shown by the fact that in 2016 there was an election after which a commission was formed to investigate voter fraud and none was found even with the full force of the government behind it. It is shown by this election that had literally hundreds of thousands of people looking for it. The full right-wing media establishment looking for it and be prepared to highlight every case that was found. The DOJ said no, judges said no, even lawyers who were litigating for Trump said they were not aware of voter fraud in court. All of this without a voter ID requirement in all states.

Give me added security that doesn't decrease turnout and I'm for it. Any measure that does decrease turnout requires anybody making a CREDIBLE assertion that would warrant that change.

Trying to establish that voter ID is the only way to have secure elections is simply false.

give me one good reason not to have them show the same ID when they vote that they used to register with??

or didnt you know they have to show ID to register??

Because ID's expire. Because people forget to bring it. Because very few cases of impersonating a voter have occurred. Because there are other ways to verify identity.

I just gave 4.

those are piss poor excuses since they have 2 yrs to prepare for it,,

sounds like youre saying some people are to stupid to be prepared,,,

Yup some people are stupid. Guess what... that's not considered a reason to disenfranchise. But hey if you want a college degree to be a requirement, I don't think most Democrats would disagree.

As to excuses. Don't ask me for reasons if you consider them excuses. Again. You want millions of people to not vote for a problem that has occurred a bit over a dozen times since 2000. Does that sound reasonable to you?

I want everyone to vote,, just have to prove its them voting just like we require in every other important thing people do,,

now if you want to be consistent and do away with all ID requirements then we can talk,, I suggest you start with gun purchases and then move to driving and work your way down from there,,,

otherwise youre a lying hypocrite,,,

You want everybody to vote providing they prove it's them? Voter ID Laws - Vote.org This already happens.

Going for another strawman I see? Where do I say here, or anywhere that I want to get rid of ID requirements?

Not for nothing, this is getting tedious. So far I've seen you use 2 strawmen, ask a question to take my answer as "excuses" and in general refuse to engage my actual premises, and now trying to do an appeal to hypocrisy... badly I might add.

I like arguing and thanks for at least refraining from being impolite, but at some point it gets boring.

then what have you and all the others been complaining about???

We are not the ones complaining about voter fraud and the need to make the elections more secure than they are. You are the person complaining. Complaining about a non-existent problem I might add. What we are complaining about is the fact that upping the requirements for voting by default lowers turnout without the changes being justified.

EVERY SINGLE STATE HAS A WAY TO VERIFY THE VOTER, NOT ALL STATES HAVE AN ID REQUIREMENT. I'VE SAID THIS NOW 3 TIMES. Maybe if you weren't dodging my premises so much it would have sunk in?

so youre OK if we get rid of IDs for gun purchases??? and all the other things its needed for??

I smell a hypocrite,,

As long as there's another way provided to verify the person's identity get rid of them. Just like happens now in regards to voting.

but its not happening in voting,,

a person walks in and votes and at no time do those verifications follow up because they cant,,

now in gun purchases I walk in buy a gun without giving ID how do they later confirm who I was??

I'm done engaging on a logical fallacy

you shouldnt have presented one then,,

Oh really? What fallacy is that then? Feel free to point it out, I try to be aware of them so give it your best shot. Yours is called an appeal to hypocrisy. More specifically even if you could establish that I hold different standards between voting and gun purchases it would not make my argument against voter ID any less valid.

I really cant figure out what you are saying. I take fault in that.

S, if I may......may I make this easier for me to understand?

To get a picture ID, which is required for many activities in the US such as....well....living, flying, mortgages, car leases, entry into a most venues......and all you need is a birth certificate and a bill with your name and address …..exactly why would you not get that picture ID?

I don't know what the reason would be neither is it all that important. The point is that some people don't or they simply forget or they have lost it. They are then not allowed to vote, I would argue a very basic right. At the moment since 2000 exactly 14 people have been convicted for impersonating a voter, telling me that that requirement doesn't add anything to security. Knowing that and knowing that millions of people who can potentially vote don't have an ID it seems unnecessary and dishonest.

 

[SC Patriot]

wheres there a strawman involved???

Unless you can find me saying anywhere here that I don't want secure elections it is a strawman.

I can not support voter ID and still want secure elections. As is shown by the fact that in 2016 there was an election after which a commission was formed to investigate voter fraud and none was found even with the full force of the government behind it. It is shown by this election that had literally hundreds of thousands of people looking for it. The full right-wing media establishment looking for it and be prepared to highlight every case that was found. The DOJ said no, judges said no, even lawyers who were litigating for Trump said they were not aware of voter fraud in court. All of this without a voter ID requirement in all states.

Give me added security that doesn't decrease turnout and I'm for it. Any measure that does decrease turnout requires anybody making a CREDIBLE assertion that would warrant that change.

Trying to establish that voter ID is the only way to have secure elections is simply false.

give me one good reason not to have them show the same ID when they vote that they used to register with??

or didnt you know they have to show ID to register??

Because ID's expire. Because people forget to bring it. Because very few cases of impersonating a voter have occurred. Because there are other ways to verify identity.

I just gave 4.

those are piss poor excuses since they have 2 yrs to prepare for it,,

sounds like youre saying some people are to stupid to be prepared,,,

Yup some people are stupid. Guess what... that's not considered a reason to disenfranchise. But hey if you want a college degree to be a requirement, I don't think most Democrats would disagree.

As to excuses. Don't ask me for reasons if you consider them excuses. Again. You want millions of people to not vote for a problem that has occurred a bit over a dozen times since 2000. Does that sound reasonable to you?

I want everyone to vote,, just have to prove its them voting just like we require in every other important thing people do,,

now if you want to be consistent and do away with all ID requirements then we can talk,, I suggest you start with gun purchases and then move to driving and work your way down from there,,,

otherwise youre a lying hypocrite,,,

You want everybody to vote providing they prove it's them? Voter ID Laws - Vote.org This already happens.

Going for another strawman I see? Where do I say here, or anywhere that I want to get rid of ID requirements?

Not for nothing, this is getting tedious. So far I've seen you use 2 strawmen, ask a question to take my answer as "excuses" and in general refuse to engage my actual premises, and now trying to do an appeal to hypocrisy... badly I might add.

I like arguing and thanks for at least refraining from being impolite, but at some point it gets boring.

then what have you and all the others been complaining about???

We are not the ones complaining about voter fraud and the need to make the elections more secure than they are. You are the person complaining. Complaining about a non-existent problem I might add. What we are complaining about is the fact that upping the requirements for voting by default lowers turnout without the changes being justified.

EVERY SINGLE STATE HAS A WAY TO VERIFY THE VOTER, NOT ALL STATES HAVE AN ID REQUIREMENT. I'VE SAID THIS NOW 3 TIMES. Maybe if you weren't dodging my premises so much it would have sunk in?

so youre OK if we get rid of IDs for gun purchases??? and all the other things its needed for??

I smell a hypocrite,,

As long as there's another way provided to verify the person's identity get rid of them. Just like happens now in regards to voting.

but its not happening in voting,,

a person walks in and votes and at no time do those verifications follow up because they cant,,

now in gun purchases I walk in buy a gun without giving ID how do they later confirm who I was??

I'm done engaging on a logical fallacy

you shouldnt have presented one then,,

Oh really? What fallacy is that then? Feel free to point it out, I try to be aware of them so give it your best shot. Yours is called an appeal to hypocrisy. More specifically even if you could establish that I hold different standards between voting and gun purchases it would not make my argument against voter ID any less valid.

I really cant figure out what you are saying. I take fault in that.

S, if I may......may I make this easier for me to understand?

To get a picture ID, which is required for many activities in the US such as....well....living, flying, mortgages, car leases, entry into a most venues......and all you need is a birth certificate and a bill with your name and address …..exactly why would you not get that picture ID?

I don't know what the reason would be neither is it all that important. The point is that some people don't or they simply forget or they have lost it. They are then not allowed to vote, I would argue a very basic right. At the moment since 2000 exactly 14 people have been convicted for impersonating a voter, telling me that that requirement doesn't add anything to security. Knowing that and knowing that millions of people who can potentially vote don't have an ID it seems unnecessary.

Where I disagree is where you say it is a very basic right. So is being able to get a license to drive. So is being able to get a COVID Vaccine when your turn comes up. So is being able to use a credit card. People tend to never forget their ID's for that.
But voting is not just a basic right in my eyes. It is also a privilege as an American citizen.
When I vote, I feel proud as I am sure you do.
But if I went to vote and forgot my ID or my bottle of water or my crab leg salad, that's on me....not on someone who wonders whether or not their vote is being cancelled out by someone who did one of two things.....not take it seriously enough to bring their ID or not eligible to vote.
Im sorry....but truth is....negligence rarely is a defense. An explanation? Yes. An excuse? No.

 

[Darkwind]

Thats a much better solution than all this bullshit...but leftists wont go for it because they do not want people to have to show ID to vote.

MLB and Delta can get together and start a project...”IDs for all”. They can make sure everyone who wants to vote gets an ID.

Advertise on TV, radio, podcasts...Say, “Cant afford an ID?” You or a friend call this toll free number. We will come to your house and take you to get an ID.

Problem solved!

Problem solved!

The GOP has yet to show it to be a problem anywhere despite years of crying.

just because you cant see something doesnt mean its there,,

Actually, I think what you where trying to say isn't there. Kind of critical in this context.

Here's the thing, unlike for instance the existence of God. The existence of massive voter fraud can be verified. Unlike God, there are active safeguards to make sure elections are honest. From recounts to ballot watchers, audits, to bipartisan election officials, to the DOJ who investigates fraud, to lawyers from both parties who litigate suspected fraud, to the bipartisan judicial system that rules onnthis litigation.

Saying that not seeing something doesn't mean it isn't there is a cliché that doesn't work in this context.

but who watches the watchers when the watchers wont let anyone watch them??

I'm not gonna waste my time in debunking all the myths you subject yourself to in your bubble, I will only say that NO claim of fraud or procedural objection was ruled favorable on by the courts.

the discussion is about voter iDs not fraud,,, so its understandable you wont waste time on it because there is no logical reason not to require an ID for one of the most important things we do as citizens of a country

Oh, really maybe the fact that millions of ELIGIBLE voter dont have an ID can be construed as a reason?

Or the fact that EVERY single state has a procedure to identify a voter and not all of them rely on a picture ID is a reason?

Or the fact that you nor anybody on the right can establish fraud to an extent that would warrant extra measures that would limit voting in any way?

I understand that to your narrative its better that you can detach what you would call voter security measures from actually being able to show they are necessary. But it is very relevant.

If the government wants to spend 1 trillion so they can arm against aliens I think you would require more than, "it's a possibility" as a justification.

So glad by the way you find voting the most important thing a citizen can do. Why wouldn't you want all eligible voters to do so than?

figures,, more excuses why not to secure the most important thing we do as a society,,

The only people who say they aren't secure are on the internet. It isn't claimed be you know... Those charged with conducting, investigating, litigating, judging elections. And contrary to what you say I want secure elections, I also want INCLUSIVE elections. You only want one of those.

But hey go right ahead and put up the strawman.

A secure election IS an INCLUSIVE election.

Anyone who has the right to vote can. Anyone who doesn't will get screened out via proof of ID.

voter identification laws by state - Bing Every state has a way to identify the voter. Not every state requires an ID. Very few cases of impersonating voters have been recorded. People have looked and I would imagine it not being very hard to find considering that it would just require one person wanting to vote when his vote being already cast to have the scheme blow up. Voter Fraud Map: Election Fraud Database | The Heritage Foundation This database goes back to 2000 it has a bit over a thousand cases total it has 13 cases documented. Voter Fraud Map: Election Fraud Database | The Heritage Foundation

Every State should require an ID.

Full stop.

It is NOT racist. It is NOT voter suppression.

Full stop.

 

[progressive hunter]

wheres there a strawman involved???

Unless you can find me saying anywhere here that I don't want secure elections it is a strawman.

I can not support voter ID and still want secure elections. As is shown by the fact that in 2016 there was an election after which a commission was formed to investigate voter fraud and none was found even with the full force of the government behind it. It is shown by this election that had literally hundreds of thousands of people looking for it. The full right-wing media establishment looking for it and be prepared to highlight every case that was found. The DOJ said no, judges said no, even lawyers who were litigating for Trump said they were not aware of voter fraud in court. All of this without a voter ID requirement in all states.

Give me added security that doesn't decrease turnout and I'm for it. Any measure that does decrease turnout requires anybody making a CREDIBLE assertion that would warrant that change.

Trying to establish that voter ID is the only way to have secure elections is simply false.

give me one good reason not to have them show the same ID when they vote that they used to register with??

or didnt you know they have to show ID to register??

Because ID's expire. Because people forget to bring it. Because very few cases of impersonating a voter have occurred. Because there are other ways to verify identity.

I just gave 4.

those are piss poor excuses since they have 2 yrs to prepare for it,,

sounds like youre saying some people are to stupid to be prepared,,,

Yup some people are stupid. Guess what... that's not considered a reason to disenfranchise. But hey if you want a college degree to be a requirement, I don't think most Democrats would disagree.

As to excuses. Don't ask me for reasons if you consider them excuses. Again. You want millions of people to not vote for a problem that has occurred a bit over a dozen times since 2000. Does that sound reasonable to you?

I want everyone to vote,, just have to prove its them voting just like we require in every other important thing people do,,

now if you want to be consistent and do away with all ID requirements then we can talk,, I suggest you start with gun purchases and then move to driving and work your way down from there,,,

otherwise youre a lying hypocrite,,,

You want everybody to vote providing they prove it's them? Voter ID Laws - Vote.org This already happens.

Going for another strawman I see? Where do I say here, or anywhere that I want to get rid of ID requirements?

Not for nothing, this is getting tedious. So far I've seen you use 2 strawmen, ask a question to take my answer as "excuses" and in general refuse to engage my actual premises, and now trying to do an appeal to hypocrisy... badly I might add.

I like arguing and thanks for at least refraining from being impolite, but at some point it gets boring.

then what have you and all the others been complaining about???

We are not the ones complaining about voter fraud and the need to make the elections more secure than they are. You are the person complaining. Complaining about a non-existent problem I might add. What we are complaining about is the fact that upping the requirements for voting by default lowers turnout without the changes being justified.

EVERY SINGLE STATE HAS A WAY TO VERIFY THE VOTER, NOT ALL STATES HAVE AN ID REQUIREMENT. I'VE SAID THIS NOW 3 TIMES. Maybe if you weren't dodging my premises so much it would have sunk in?

so youre OK if we get rid of IDs for gun purchases??? and all the other things its needed for??

I smell a hypocrite,,

As long as there's another way provided to verify the person's identity get rid of them. Just like happens now in regards to voting.

but its not happening in voting,,

a person walks in and votes and at no time do those verifications follow up because they cant,,

now in gun purchases I walk in buy a gun without giving ID how do they later confirm who I was??

I'm done engaging on a logical fallacy

you shouldnt have presented one then,,

Oh really? What fallacy is that then? Feel free to point it out, I try to be aware of them so give it your best shot. Yours is called an appeal to hypocrisy. More specifically even if you could establish that I hold different standards between voting and gun purchases it would not make my argument against voter ID any less valid.

wheres the hypocrisy in having an id when you do really important stuff like voting or buying a gun??

youve failed repeatedly to give a logical reason to not have one to vote,,,