Inside Gaza And Under Israeli Fire, A Family Tries To Stay Safe

[Indeependent]

So what can they do? Nothing. Nowhere is safe and they can't leave.

Sounds like they should have left the area and gotten far from the advancing Israelis, immediately after receiving the Israeli warnings, while they still had the chance.

They chose to stay, or were too slow in leaving. Now they're caught..

It's easy to tell people to leave...however

Where can 4 million people go?

And are they allowed to leave Gaza?

1.2 million suddenly became 4 million?
It's NOT a matter of leaving Aza, it's a matter of ANOTHER nation letting them in.

 

[Kondor3]

So what can they do? Nothing. Nowhere is safe and they can't leave.

Sounds like they should have left the area and gotten far from the advancing Israelis, immediately after receiving the Israeli warnings, while they still had the chance.

They chose to stay, or were too slow in leaving. Now they're caught..

It's easy to tell people to leave...however

Where can 4 million people go?

And are they allowed to leave Gaza?

Not all 1.8 million people in Gaza are displaced simultaneously.

Let's face it, when we're talking about 'square footage', only a tiny percentage of the land-mass is under assault at any given time.

Where do they go?

Further south, towards the Egyptian border, or camped-out, in otherwise sparsely-populated areas to the west, or simply a kilometer or two up or down the road, until the fighting is over in their residential areas?

Anyplace where the shells aren't falling, or about to fall, for a few days, at best; anyplace where they can get a roof or tent over their heads, rations, water, etc.

And, let's face it, those obliged to flee temporarily can always count on their fellow Gazans for some food and water and a corner in which to sleep for a few days, right?

As to being allowed to leave Gaza, I have no idea, although I've heard differing opinions on the subject, and, I've heard, that it's not safe to publicly declare your departure, for fear of reprisals by Hamas against one's self and family.

Allowed to leave DURING a military action?

Not likely; otherwise, the Bad Guys could embed along with the innocents, and get away.

Frankly, anyone with an ounce of brains and two shekels to rub together should have gotten himself and his family the hell outta there years ago.

This is a *****-kitty, for those caught in the middle, but they're also the ones who voted-in Hamas and supported their Destroy-Israel agenda.

This is part of the consequences of that arrogance and foolhardiness, I believe.

I feel very sorry for them, the men, and especially the women, and, of course, and God help them, most especially, the little ones.

But I value the slaughter of Hamas operatives by the bushel-basketful more than some modicum of harm coming to those who voted those bastards into power in the first place.

This is war.

 

[irosie91]

Sounds like they should have left the area and gotten far from the advancing Israelis, immediately after receiving the Israeli warnings, while they still had the chance.

They chose to stay, or were too slow in leaving. Now they're caught..

It's easy to tell people to leave...however

Where can 4 million people go?

And are they allowed to leave Gaza?

1.2 million suddenly became 4 million?
It's NOT a matter of leaving Aza, it's a matter of ANOTHER nation letting them in.

They already HAVE tunnels into Egypt----big enough to transport cars ----if a few thousand
people showed up in Sinai----would the Egyptian army shoot them? I got the impression
tens or even hundreds of thousands of Syrians are camping out in Jordan and Turkey---
why not SINAI? big opened spaces -----further on up the road they can open up the pyramids

 

[Coyote]

Sounds like they should have left the area and gotten far from the advancing Israelis, immediately after receiving the Israeli warnings, while they still had the chance.

They chose to stay, or were too slow in leaving. Now they're caught..

It's easy to tell people to leave...however

Where can 4 million people go?

And are they allowed to leave Gaza?

Not all 1.8 million people in Gaza are displaced simultaneously.

Let's face it, when we're talking about 'square footage', only a tiny percentage of the land-mass is under assault at any given time.

Where do they go?

Further south, towards the Egyptian border, or camped-out, in otherwise sparsely-populated areas to the west, or simply a kilometer or two up or down the road, until the fighting is over in their residential areas?

Anyplace where the shells aren't falling, or about to fall, for a few days, at best; anyplace where they can get a roof or tent over their heads, rations, water, etc.

And, let's face it, those obliged to flee temporarily can always count on their fellow Gazans for some food and water and a corner in which to sleep for a few days, right?

As to being allowed to leave Gaza, I have no idea, although I've heard differing opinions on the subject, and, I've heard, that it's not safe to publicly declare your departure, for fear of reprisals by Hamas against one's self and family.

Allowed to leave DURING a military action?

Not likely; otherwise, the Bad Guys could embed along with the innocents, and get away.

Frankly, anyone with an ounce of brains and two shekels to rub together should have gotten himself and his family the hell outta there years ago.

This is a *****-kitty, for those caught in the middle, but they're also the ones who voted-in Hamas and supported their Destroy-Israel agenda.

This is part of the consequences of that arrogance and foolhardiness, I believe.

I feel very sorry for them, the men, and especially the women, and, of course, and God help them, most especially, the little ones.

But I value the slaughter of Hamas operatives by the bushel-basketful more than some modicum of harm coming to those who voted those bastards into power in the first place.

This is war.

Correction noted - I saw 4 million in one source but I might have misread.

You say they "should have gotten themselves and their families out" - but WHERE? Seriously...think about it. You make it sound so easy. There is no realistic place for them to go. Out in the middle of the desert? I don't think it's as easy as you say.

As to blaming them for voting Hamas in. What were the choices? The election was not about Hamas - it was about the corruption and ineffectiveness of Fatah, not a support of Hamas' "destroy Israel". And as soon as they were elected - Israel set up the blockades and impediments.

When people say they could just flee here and there, I think: really now.

 

[aris2chat]

It's easy to tell people to leave...however

Where can 4 million people go?

And are they allowed to leave Gaza?

Not all 1.8 million people in Gaza are displaced simultaneously.

Let's face it, when we're talking about 'square footage', only a tiny percentage of the land-mass is under assault at any given time.

Where do they go?

Further south, towards the Egyptian border, or camped-out, in otherwise sparsely-populated areas to the west, or simply a kilometer or two up or down the road, until the fighting is over in their residential areas?

Anyplace where the shells aren't falling, or about to fall, for a few days, at best; anyplace where they can get a roof or tent over their heads, rations, water, etc.

And, let's face it, those obliged to flee temporarily can always count on their fellow Gazans for some food and water and a corner in which to sleep for a few days, right?

As to being allowed to leave Gaza, I have no idea, although I've heard differing opinions on the subject, and, I've heard, that it's not safe to publicly declare your departure, for fear of reprisals by Hamas against one's self and family.

Allowed to leave DURING a military action?

Not likely; otherwise, the Bad Guys could embed along with the innocents, and get away.

Frankly, anyone with an ounce of brains and two shekels to rub together should have gotten himself and his family the hell outta there years ago.

This is a *****-kitty, for those caught in the middle, but they're also the ones who voted-in Hamas and supported their Destroy-Israel agenda.

This is part of the consequences of that arrogance and foolhardiness, I believe.

I feel very sorry for them, the men, and especially the women, and, of course, and God help them, most especially, the little ones.

But I value the slaughter of Hamas operatives by the bushel-basketful more than some modicum of harm coming to those who voted those bastards into power in the first place.

This is war.

Correction noted - I saw 4 million in one source but I might have misread.

You say they "should have gotten themselves and their families out" - but WHERE? Seriously...think about it. You make it sound so easy. There is no realistic place for them to go. Out in the middle of the desert? I don't think it's as easy as you say.

As to blaming them for voting Hamas in. What were the choices? The election was not about Hamas - it was about the corruption and ineffectiveness of Fatah, not a support of Hamas' "destroy Israel". And as soon as they were elected - Israel set up the blockades and impediments.

When people say they could just flee here and there, I think: really now.

there are perhaps 10,000 displaced gazans that sought refuge from the UN or other family out of concern that there would be a ground force from the north. It is hardly the whole gazan population trying to stay out of the way of troops or bombing. There are not a million + palestinians seeking shelter.

 

[Kondor3]

Correction noted - I saw 4 million in one source but I might have misread...

It does reduce the potential problem to 45% of its 'original' size.

...You say they "should have gotten themselves and their families out" - but WHERE? Seriously...think about it. You make it sound so easy. There is no realistic place for them to go. Out in the middle of the desert? I don't think it's as easy as you say...

Where did the thousands go, who DID evacuate out of harms' way, in accordance with the advance warnings that the Israelis provided? Where? Down the block? Into the next neighborhood? Across town? Out into the burbs? Out into the countryside? By motor vehicle or by walking. If there is a military juggernaut coming my way, and there are avenues of departure and escape, I'm gonna pack up the wife, the kids, and whatever rations and water we can carry, along with a pea-shooter or two, and head for one of those places. Assuming that Hamas won't shoot me or my family for leaving, of course.

...As to blaming them for voting Hamas in. What were the choices? The election was not about Hamas - it was about the corruption and ineffectiveness of Fatah, not a support of Hamas' "destroy Israel". And as soon as they were elected - Israel set up the blockades and impediments...

Personally, I'm not inclined to even listen to excuses made on behalf of Gazans who elevated Hamas into power over them. They knew what they were doing. They are now dealing with the consequences of their choice. Consequences which they did not believe Israel had the willpower to inflict upon them. They were wrong. Welcome to Judgment Day, it would seem.

...When people say they could just flee here and there, I think: really now.

It doesn't take much, to pack up the wife and kiddies, and walk 10 blocks, out of harm's way, two days before the fighting begins. Go hang out in a shelter, or a storefront, or a relative's home, or a mosque, or a refugee center... whatever... until the fighting passes.

 

[SmedlyButler]

Palestinians are victims of an endless chain of horrible leaders ie Arafat and Hamas.

They are bloodsuckers that get money and weapons from foreign elements to continue the war and terror, and stuck in the middle are the civilians on both sides of this war.

The Arab/Islamic nations in the M.E. have to get their shit together and start taking actions that will promote peace instead of war. Some of America's so called "allies" in the region e.g Saudia Arabia, have been he worst offenders. They must realize Israel isn't going anywhere. So it's endless war or accept that fact and start taking apart the organizations that won't, e.g. Hamas, and crack down on the Imams, the Madras' or whoever are preaching hate and jihad. This has been going on since before I was born and I'm over 60.

And Israel has to stop the settlement land grab. It smacks too much of "Liebenstraum".
The reason I've been a supporter of Israel all my life is probably the pictures of liberated concentration camps that the 1950's Encyclopedia Brittanica included. They are in danger of losing the moral high ground.

 

[SAYIT]

The uninhabited parts of gaza are safe so they could go there, but then that would leave the cowardly hamas terrorists unprotected and their homes in danger of being destroyed. Anyone that can use Google Earth can see for themselves that nearly half of gaza is open uninhabited land. So the civilians could move there while the fighting is going on to minimise civilian casualties.

Exactly so.

The vast majority of the civilian population could certainly sit-out the fighting in comparative safety, given how much open space there is, leaving behind only the truly immobile, and, of course, Hamas scum.

But Hamas bullies like their human shields, and will try to browbeat as many into staying as is possible.

Sooner or later, Gazans will grow weary of Hamas, and turn on them...

Not likely. Maybe they don't really see a viable option to Hamas or perhaps they aren't so enamored of freedom and prosperity that they would fight for either.
Better just to pray 5 times a day and go along with the old program.

 

[SAYIT]

They can revolt against Hamas like most Arab States revolting against totalitarianism.

I'm not convinced they are revolting against totalitarianism but rather for a different one. Freedom isn't really a cultural tradition in the Arab Mideast and they do cling desperately to their traditions.

 

[Daniyel]

They can revolt against Hamas like most Arab States revolting against totalitarianism.

I'm not convinced they are revolting against totalitarianism but rather for a different one. Freedom isn't really a cultural tradition in the Arab Mideast and they do cling desperately to their traditions.

True, but the Arab Spring was pretty inspiring for every common Arab in the Mideast.
We are talking about 1,500,000,000,000+ Arabs in the Mideast..more or less?

 

[Coyote]

Personally, I'm not inclined to even listen to excuses made on behalf of Gazans who elevated Hamas into power over them. They knew what they were doing. They are now dealing with the consequences of their choice. Consequences which they did not believe Israel had the willpower to inflict upon them. They were wrong. Welcome to Judgment Day, it would seem.

I don't consider it "excuses" but rather reality. Most politics are local - not global.

Judgement day? For making the best of a bad set of choices? How nice. Was the Holocaust judgement day?

I'm sorry, but I find your flippant attitude towards real human plight disgusting.

It doesn't take much, to pack up the wife and kiddies, and walk 10 blocks, out of harm's way, two days before the fighting begins. Go hang out in a shelter, or a storefront, or a relative's home, or a mosque, or a refugee center... whatever... until the fighting passes.

Or does it? Why don't you try it and let us know how EASY it is.

 

[SAYIT]

They can revolt against Hamas like most Arab States revolting against totalitarianism.

I'm not convinced they are revolting against totalitarianism but rather for a different one. Freedom isn't really a cultural tradition in the Arab Mideast and they do cling desperately to their traditions.

True, but the Arab Spring was pretty inspiring for every common Arab in the Mideast.
We are talking about 1,500,000,000,000+ Arabs in the Mideast..more or less?

We're talking about 350 million Mideast Arabs (1.5 bil Muslims worldwide) and inspiring as it may have been it quickly devolved into a race to the bottom ... not that they were all that far before "The Spring."
Meet the new boss ... same as the old boss. - The Who

 

[Kondor3]

Personally, I'm not inclined to even listen to excuses made on behalf of Gazans who elevated Hamas into power over them. They knew what they were doing. They are now dealing with the consequences of their choice. Consequences which they did not believe Israel had the willpower to inflict upon them. They were wrong. Welcome to Judgment Day, it would seem.

I don't consider it "excuses" but rather reality. Most politics are local - not global...

Yes. I know that you don't consider it excuse-making. Most here know that.

...Judgement day? For making the best of a bad set of choices? How nice...

Indeed. For choosing the Party of Death (Hamas) over the Party of Negotiation (Fatah).

Nothing nice about it. War is not a nice business. War as Judgment Day is even worse.

Israel now moves to break the back of Hamas and to slaughter as many of its fighters as it can get in its sights.

Civilians whom refuse to evacuate - or whom are prevented at gunpoint by mad-dog Hamas fanatics from evacuating - must take their chances alongside their Hamas masters.

Judgment Day, indeed.

...Was the Holocaust judgement day?...

Doubtful.

I don't remember the Jews provoking the Nazis through decades of suicide bombings and guerrilla warfare and rocketry barrages against German towns, or voting into power any political party in their various locales, which were committed to the overthrow of Germany and the driving of Germans into the North Sea.

Perhaps I missed the memo.

...I'm sorry, but I find your flippant attitude towards real human plight disgusting...

It's the difference between someone who makes excuses for Hamas, versus someone who steels himself to advocate for the slaughter of Hamas scum, without mercy or prisoners.

I feel just as badly as the next person, that innocents suffer alongside the losing side (Hamas), but urban warfare produces such casualties, and are a necessary part of such engagements, especially when civilians have been given multiple days' advance warning, and still will not evacuate.

As to your finding it disgusting, that's your right, and, under normal circumstances, I might try a little harder to offset that perception, but, given your excuse-making for the Gazans, in connection with their elevation and support of Hamas, I'm not inclined to bother.

...

It doesn't take much, to pack up the wife and kiddies, and walk 10 blocks, out of harm's way, two days before the fighting begins. Go hang out in a shelter, or a storefront, or a relative's home, or a mosque, or a refugee center... whatever... until the fighting passes.

Or does it? Why don't you try it and let us know how EASY it is.

Yes, yes, yes... very nice... I'm sure... but it doesn't take much to stuff a couple of backpacks full of rations and water and clothes and blankets and to take the kids in hand and to start walking to the other side of town or the next village down the road.

It beats waiting for the bombs to start falling around your children's ears, doesn't it?

That is not a complicated choice.

That you find it otherwise strikes me as more an exercise in self-serving obtuse-ness than in the pragmatic exercise of logic in the service of preservation-of-family.

Given that scores of thousands of Gazans have done just that - evacuated areas where they had received advance notice of fighting to come - I'd say that your protests in that context are on rather shaky ground.

 

[Billo_Really]

I feel just as badly as the next person, that innocents suffer...

Oh, you do not!

You're such a hypocrite!

 

[Phoenall]

So what can they do? Nothing. Nowhere is safe and they can't leave.

Sounds like they should have left the area and gotten far from the advancing Israelis, immediately after receiving the Israeli warnings, while they still had the chance.

They chose to stay, or were too slow in leaving. Now they're caught..

It's easy to tell people to leave...however

Where can 4 million people go?

And are they allowed to leave Gaza?

Yes they are allowed to leave gaza as many have already done and ended up in the Sinai. They could also go to the vast areas inside gaza that have no inhabitants and stay there until the fighting is over. It could be an adventure for the whole family, a camping trip to the country at say As-Siafa or Juhor ad Dik

 

[Phoenall]

Personally, I'm not inclined to even listen to excuses made on behalf of Gazans who elevated Hamas into power over them. They knew what they were doing. They are now dealing with the consequences of their choice. Consequences which they did not believe Israel had the willpower to inflict upon them. They were wrong. Welcome to Judgment Day, it would seem.

I don't consider it "excuses" but rather reality. Most politics are local - not global.

Judgement day? For making the best of a bad set of choices? How nice. Was the Holocaust judgement day?

I'm sorry, but I find your flippant attitude towards real human plight disgusting.

It doesn't take much, to pack up the wife and kiddies, and walk 10 blocks, out of harm's way, two days before the fighting begins. Go hang out in a shelter, or a storefront, or a relative's home, or a mosque, or a refugee center... whatever... until the fighting passes.

Or does it? Why don't you try it and let us know how EASY it is.

For many tens of millions it was, and not just the ones that died either.

I find your biased and racist attitude alarming and disgusting to the point of seeing an extremist in action.

It is easy for many people who don't have the gold plated lifestyle of middle class America. The ones who have never had to catch their food and need surgical gloves to prepare chicken. Could you pack up a few essentials and take a trip to some unspoilt area of the US and live happily for a week, because at the end of the day that is what we would be talking if there were no civilians in the way.

 

[Billo_Really]

Yes they are allowed to leave gaza as many have already done and ended up in the Sinai. They could also go to the vast areas inside gaza that have no inhabitants and stay there until the fighting is over. It could be an adventure for the whole family, a camping trip to the country at say As-Siafa or Juhor ad Dik

No, they are not allowed to leave Gaza.

Why do you insist on telling lies?

 

[Billo_Really]

Where did the thousands go, who DID evacuate out of harms' way, in accordance with the advance warnings that the Israelis provided? Where? Down the block? Into the next neighborhood? Across town? Out into the burbs? Out into the countryside? By motor vehicle or by walking. If there is a military juggernaut coming my way, and there are avenues of departure and escape, I'm gonna pack up the wife, the kids, and whatever rations and water we can carry, along with a pea-shooter or two, and head for one of those places. Assuming that Hamas won't shoot me or my family for leaving, of course.


Personally, I'm not inclined to even listen to excuses made on behalf of Gazans who elevated Hamas into power over them. They knew what they were doing. They are now dealing with the consequences of their choice. Consequences which they did not believe Israel had the willpower to inflict upon them. They were wrong. Welcome to Judgment Day, it would seem.


It doesn't take much, to pack up the wife and kiddies, and walk 10 blocks, out of harm's way, two days before the fighting begins. Go hang out in a shelter, or a storefront, or a relative's home, or a mosque, or a refugee center... whatever... until the fighting passes.

There are no shelters in Gaza and they're not permitted to leave.

There's not much they can do when you decide to make up bullshit lies to attack them.

 

[Kondor3]

I feel just as badly as the next person, that innocents suffer...

Oh, you do not!

You're such a hypocrite!

Do not presume to tell me what I feel, miscreant.

 

[Kondor3]

Where did the thousands go, who DID evacuate out of harms' way, in accordance with the advance warnings that the Israelis provided? Where? Down the block? Into the next neighborhood? Across town? Out into the burbs? Out into the countryside? By motor vehicle or by walking. If there is a military juggernaut coming my way, and there are avenues of departure and escape, I'm gonna pack up the wife, the kids, and whatever rations and water we can carry, along with a pea-shooter or two, and head for one of those places. Assuming that Hamas won't shoot me or my family for leaving, of course.


Personally, I'm not inclined to even listen to excuses made on behalf of Gazans who elevated Hamas into power over them. They knew what they were doing. They are now dealing with the consequences of their choice. Consequences which they did not believe Israel had the willpower to inflict upon them. They were wrong. Welcome to Judgment Day, it would seem.


It doesn't take much, to pack up the wife and kiddies, and walk 10 blocks, out of harm's way, two days before the fighting begins. Go hang out in a shelter, or a storefront, or a relative's home, or a mosque, or a refugee center... whatever... until the fighting passes.

There are no shelters in Gaza and they're not permitted to leave...

They should have thought of that before they (a) elected Hamas and (b) allowed Hamas to shoot rockets into Israel.

Too late now.

Welcome to your consequences.

And, in connection with civilians evacuating, scores of thousands have fled the active fire-zones, for areas of Gaza that are not experiencing combat conditions.

Where did these go?

Those who did not evacuate could have gone to the same places where these scores of thousands fled, to get out of the way.

Hell, even sitting in an open field, and having to carry water a mile or two, is a damned sight better than your children having a ringside seat to a serious firefight.

...There's not much they can do when you decide to make up bullshit lies to attack them.

The so-called 'bullshit lies' are not the real reason why the IDF is going into Gaza, and are immaterial, except for the most simple-minded of folk.

They are going into Gaza to destroy Hamas' war-making ability and to slaughter Hamas militants.