Information: Evidence for a Creator

[Mr.Right]

Before replying to this post, you are required to read the entire article, and be prepared to engage in intelligent debate. No insults allowed. This is a scientific and logical debate. Thank you.Information Evidence for a Creator Answers in Genesis

 

[Mr.Right]

Just to clarify, materialists believe that only matter and energy exist, and that everything that exists is a result Of interactions between the two. This article makes the claim that information also exists independent of matter and energy. It also makes the claim that all meaningful information originates from an intelligent mind. This includes the information in DNA.

 

[ChesBayJJ]

Before replying to this post, you are required to read the entire article, and be prepared to engage in intelligent debate. No insults allowed. This is a scientific and logical debate. Thank you.Information Evidence for a Creator Answers in Genesis

I call it a bunch of hogwash. I disagree with the way information is defined. And I disagree with this:

Why is this good news? Because the foundation for materialism (atheism, humanism, evolution) is that the universe consists of only two entities3: mass and energy. Therefore, if a third entity can be shown to exist, then materialism and all philosophies based on it must also be false. Information is this third fundamental entity.

Information is not a separate entity. It is merely an organized form of matter. The physical properties of chemical elements lead to many types of bonds. DNA is a complex molecule that uses a simple code to encode genetic information. Physics leads to chemistry leads to biology. Beyond the big bang, there is no need for a creator. Natural laws bring us to the present and all of the wonderful creations of the human mind - that is where God exists.

 

[ChesBayJJ]

Here's a different view. Explained by someone much more knowledgeable than myself.

Science-related videos - Richard Dawkins - Author s Notes - Wakelet

 

[Mr.Right]

Before replying to this post, you are required to read the entire article, and be prepared to engage in intelligent debate. No insults allowed. This is a scientific and logical debate. Thank you.Information Evidence for a Creator Answers in Genesis

I call it a bunch of hogwash. I disagree with the way information is defined. And I disagree with this:

Why is this good news? Because the foundation for materialism (atheism, humanism, evolution) is that the universe consists of only two entities3: mass and energy. Therefore, if a third entity can be shown to exist, then materialism and all philosophies based on it must also be false. Information is this third fundamental entity.

Information is not a separate entity. It is merely an organized form of matter. The physical properties of chemical elements lead to many types of bonds. DNA is a complex molecule that uses a simple code to encode genetic information. Physics leads to chemistry leads to biology. Beyond the big bang, there is no need for a creator. Natural laws bring us to the present and all of the wonderful creations of the human mind - that is where God exists.

Wrong! Information exists independent of matter and energy. All information is the result of a intelligent mind. Matter and energy cannot produce something that is non material. These are facts that cannot be disputed.

 

[ChesBayJJ]

Wrong! Information exists independent of matter and energy. All information is the result of a intelligent mind. Matter and energy cannot produce something that is non material. These are facts that cannot be disputed.

Wrong. The genetic code contained in the DNA molecule contains information and it has existed for billions of years. The discovery and description of the molecule and the code by humanity required an intelligent mind. But the information existed long before we humans evolved.

 

[TheOldSchool]

It seems to me it must take a person of very little faith to try and seek evidence of a higher power to reassure themselves. Isn't it true that salvation is only possible through faith, not proof?

 

[Mr.Right]

Wrong! Information exists independent of matter and energy. All information is the result of a intelligent mind. Matter and energy cannot produce something that is non material. These are facts that cannot be disputed.

Wrong. The genetic code contained in the DNA molecule contains information and it has existed for billions of years. The discovery and description of the molecule and the code by humanity required an intelligent mind. But the information existed long before we humans evolved.

DNA is not information. It is simply a carrier of information. Where did this information come from? All information traces its origin back to an act of conscious will. I repeat. Matter and energy cannot create something that is immaterial. Information exists independently of matter and energy. Therefore, the information contained in DNA had to originate from a intelligent source.

 

[Mr.Right]

It seems to me it must take a person of very little faith to try and seek evidence of a higher power to reassure themselves. Isn't it true that salvation is only possible through faith, not proof?

Did you read the entire article? It proves that information can only be created by intelligent minds. DNA contains information. Therefore, a intelligent mind created that information.

 

[TheOldSchool]

It seems to me it must take a person of very little faith to try and seek evidence of a higher power to reassure themselves. Isn't it true that salvation is only possible through faith, not proof?

Did you read the entire article? It proves that information can only be created by intelligent minds. DNA contains information. Therefore, a intelligent mind created that information.

 

[Mr.Right]

It seems to me it must take a person of very little faith to try and seek evidence of a higher power to reassure themselves. Isn't it true that salvation is only possible through faith, not proof?

Did you read the entire article? It proves that information can only be created by intelligent minds. DNA contains information. Therefore, a intelligent mind created that information.

Instead of mocking laughter, why don't you try to refute something from the article? This will accomplish two things. It will force you to use your brain, and it might actually convince someone that you have a small measure of intelligence.

 

[ChesBayJJ]

DNA is not information. It is simply a carrier of information. Where did this information come from? All information traces its origin back to an act of conscious will. I repeat. Matter and energy cannot create something that is immaterial. Information exists independently of matter and energy. Therefore, the information contained in DNA had to originate from a intelligent source.

We seem to have a basic disagreement. let me see if I understand you. You seem to be saying information cannot exist without a human being to describe the information.

That is where I fundamentally disagree. Information can exist by and of itself and requires no human description.

The action of the laws of physics requires no human intervention. Spontaneous chemical reactions led to the first molecules of life and evolution has brought us to this discussion we are having now.

 

[TheOldSchool]

It seems to me it must take a person of very little faith to try and seek evidence of a higher power to reassure themselves. Isn't it true that salvation is only possible through faith, not proof?

Did you read the entire article? It proves that information can only be created by intelligent minds. DNA contains information. Therefore, a intelligent mind created that information.

Instead of mocking laughter, why don't you try to refute something from the article? This will accomplish two things. It will force you to use your brain, and it might actually convince someone that you have a small measure of intelligence.

Satan is whispering in your ear monkey! Faith is all you need! That article is an attempt to reconcile God's creation with the "scientific" lies of Satan!!! Repent!!!

 

[Mr.Right]

DNA is not information. It is simply a carrier of information. Where did this information come from? All information traces its origin back to an act of conscious will. I repeat. Matter and energy cannot create something that is immaterial. Information exists independently of matter and energy. Therefore, the information contained in DNA had to originate from a intelligent source.

We seem to have a basic disagreement. let me see if I understand you. You seem to be saying information cannot exist without a human being to describe the information.

That is where I fundamentally disagree. Information can exist by and of itself and requires no human description.

The action of the laws of physics requires no human intervention. Spontaneous chemical reactions led to the first molecules of life and evolution has brought us to this discussion we are having now.

Incorrect. I'm saying that information exists independently of matter or energy. Matter and energy cannot create meaningful information. It is the creation of intelligence.

 

[Mr.Right]

It seems to me it must take a person of very little faith to try and seek evidence of a higher power to reassure themselves. Isn't it true that salvation is only possible through faith, not proof?

Did you read the entire article? It proves that information can only be created by intelligent minds. DNA contains information. Therefore, a intelligent mind created that information.

Instead of mocking laughter, why don't you try to refute something from the article? This will accomplish two things. It will force you to use your brain, and it might actually convince someone that you have a small measure of intelligence.

Satan is whispering in your ear monkey! Faith is all you need! That article is an attempt to reconcile God's creation with the "scientific" lies of Satan!!! Repent!!!

Let me know if you have something intelligent to say, or even something related to my topic. Until then, I'll be ignoring you.

 

[ChesBayJJ]

Incorrect. I'm saying that information exists independently of matter or energy. Matter and energy cannot create meaningful information. It is the creation of intelligence.

Information can be described by intelligence. But it can exist on its own without the need for being described. The genetic information contained in DNA has existed for billions of years. Are you saying that information didn't exist until Watson and Crick described it?

 

[Mr.Right]

Incorrect. I'm saying that information exists independently of matter or energy. Matter and energy cannot create meaningful information. It is the creation of intelligence.

Information can be described by intelligence. But it can exist on its own without the need for being described. The genetic information contained in DNA has existed for billions of years. Are you saying that information didn't exist until Watson and Crick described it?

Are you being deliberately obtuse? There is no method whereby matter and energy can create something that is immaterial. Information is immaterial. Get it now?

 

[ChesBayJJ]

Are you being deliberately obtuse? There is no method whereby matter and energy can create something that is immaterial. Information is immaterial. Get it now?

You lost me with that comment. I don't understand what you mean when you say information is immaterial. Are you saying information doesn't exist until it is described by an intelligent being? Are you referring to knowledge as different from information?

 

[Mr.Right]

Are you being deliberately obtuse? There is no method whereby matter and energy can create something that is immaterial. Information is immaterial. Get it now?

You lost me with that comment. I don't understand what you mean when you say information is immaterial. Are you saying information doesn't exist until it is described by an intelligent being? Are you referring to knowledge as different from information?

Did you even read the article? It explains all that.

 

[ChesBayJJ]

Are you being deliberately obtuse? There is no method whereby matter and energy can create something that is immaterial. Information is immaterial. Get it now?

You lost me with that comment. I don't understand what you mean when you say information is immaterial. Are you saying information doesn't exist until it is described by an intelligent being? Are you referring to knowledge as different from information?

Did you even read the article? It explains all that.

I read the article and I disagree with it. Perhaps you can explain it to me more clearly.

Here is the final conclusion of your article

The presupposition of the Bible is that there is a God who created the universe, the earth, and all organisms living on earth. This has been shown to be consistent with scientific discoveries that there is a nonmaterial third fundamental entity called information that originates only from an intelligent source. The universe consists of more than just mass and energy, and the information found within the DNA system of all life originated from an all-knowing, all-powerful Creator God.

And again, I disagree with it. The information contained in DNA is the result of complex chemical bonding that required only the laws of physics. It requires no intelligence. If you wish to believe the Big Bang was the creation of an all-powerful all-knowing God, I have no complaints. But from that point onward, it has all been operating on autopilot. God has merely been a bystander.