India Versus Pakistan WAR Looming.

[MisterBeale]

India would win this war.

IF nukes are involved, no one will win.

 

[MisterBeale]

 

[MisterBeale]

 

[MisterBeale]

 

[Zavulon]

Wow, Boris, you really don't seem to get why Nuclear war would be a bad thing for everyone.

I do understand why nuclear (or any other) war is a bad thing. Actually, I believe I know bad sides of wars (especially WMD-side) better than you. But sometimes war (even regional nuclear or large-scale unlimited war) is a "lesser evil".

And what is even more important - it doesn't change the fact that "Nuclear winter" is nothing but pseudo-scientific BS and environmentalistic scary-tale.

I don't want to be in the position of "Taking food from someone else", and I'm not sure how you think that's a good idea.

Actually you are in position of taking food from someone else. You government print money (and back those money with the might of Army and Fleet) and you buy for those money a lot of good (including food) from other people. Many people see it as a robbery.

Then again, you live in a country where you have the most land and still have to wait in line for food, and you think your leaders are so ******* smart.

I don't need to wait in line for food. Russian delivery services (especially in Moscow) are a way better than American ones. And food is cheap and available. There is a lot of articles and videos in internet.

And it doesn't change the fact, that in the case of victory in WWIII the winner will have access to the resources (including food) from of the whole world to recuperate consequences of the war.

 

[Zavulon]

Wtf dude

Why are you posting such disgusting, inhumane nonsense? You should be ashamed of yourself.

Please read something about what would happen to the planet, if those two countries had a nuclear exchange.

Nothing serious will happen. May be a little global cooling, may be a little global warming. Environmental effects won't be something enormous. Political and economic impact definitely will.

 

[Zavulon]

IF nukes are involved, no one will win.

Why do you think so? Global safety will be decreased (mostly because of NPT end) but India's safety might even increase.

 

[MisterBeale]

India's safety might even increase.

Doubt it.

Any modern society that engages in a large scale nuclear exchange will, more than likely, completely fall apart.
Sure, there would be mass causalities from the initial nukes. . . but the EMP and catastrophic fires will cause society, more than likely, to completely disintegrate.

Just the multiple various EMP will set society back to the stone age. India already depends on a digital currency. Thus, their entire economy will dissolve.

Nuclear electromagnetic pulse - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

EMP Myths Debunked by NASA Engineer | 2020​

More folks will die from the ensuing chaos and starvation, lack of civil society and resources, and mass famine -- than the nukes themselves.

 

[Zavulon]

Doubt it.

Any modern society that engages in a large scale nuclear exchange will, more than likely, completely fall apart.
Sure, there would be mass causalities from the initial nukes. . . but the EMP and catastrophic fires will cause society, more than likely, to completely disintegrate.

Just the multiple various EMP will set society back to the stone age. India already depends on a digital currency. Thus, their entire economy will dissolve.

Nuclear electromagnetic pulse - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

EMP Myths Debunked by NASA Engineer | 2020​

More folks will die from the ensuing chaos and starvation, lack of civil society and resources, and mass famine -- than the nukes themselves.

Really? First of all, as far as I know, neither Infia, not Pakistan posses really high yield bombs optimised for EMP. Second - first strike is almost always counter-force. One side (let it be India in our little game) launch preemptive attack, destroy significant part of enemies' nukes and then - suggest peace on pretty generous terms.

Considering that those figures are more or less correct, that no side has silo-based missiles, in the case of more or less sudden strike (and getting Pakistani with their pants down) - India with, say, thirty missiles have all chance to eliminate 90% of Pakistani nuclear arsenal. And after it Pakistan have the choice - retaliate with 20 survived missiles or accept India-prefered peace. The situation for Pakistan is complicated by the fact, that India already has at least 3 regiments of Russian S-400 air-defence complexes, which means that India has at least 3 most important sites reliable covered.
So Pakistan has a chance to damage, say, ten Indian less important cities. Forty kilotons is not much and even with tactical alert significant part of rich Indians will be sheltered in basements (and very rich Indians had left cities at all in advance). It means, say, 10*50k = 0.5 million killed poor Indians.But after such strike India wont have any reason to be deterred and with more than 120 warheads will cause much more terrible damage to Pakistan (of course it won't be total annihilation either, but even ten million killed Pakistanis is pretty bad thing). After that, other countries will help sides to sign a peace treaty and save those whose who can be saved.

Long story short - both Pakistan and India can't cause really unacceptable damage to each other, mostly because they simply doesn't have enough of nukes for it.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

You have zero moral high ground.
You can come off the "holier than thou" speech.

Anyone on the planet has moral high ground over any dumbfuck who thinks a nuclear exchabge between India and Pakistan would be just fine for the planet.


Grow up and read something about it.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Nothing serious will happen.

Shut up, stupid. You're embarrassing yourself.

 

[JohnDB]

Anyone on the planet has moral high ground over any dumbfuck who thinks a nuclear exchabge between India and Pakistan would be just fine for the planet.


Grow up and read something about it.

I unfortunately know way too much about the problems associated with nuclear warfare exchanges.
I've never advocated for any such thing to happen.
But I also understand proper techniques (up to a very limited point) for warfare.

Nuclear weapons are usually reserved for large targets that conventional warheads cannot eliminate. Like airports, military bases, large rail yards used for hauling heavy equipment to battle.

The principle objective of war is to stop your opponent from being able to wage war against you.

Nuclear weapons are effective at large targets....but not civilians. Targeting civilians only strengthens their resolve and creates more loyal combatants. (As Russia is slowly learning as only a learning diabled person can learn)

Then there exists the international community you have to live with post nuclear exchange. If one of these two maliciously use nuclear warheads against the other....the fallout from such devices will greatly upset the other nations. They may deem them a pariah nation and find themselves in an embargo environment. Assets abroad seized, trade negotiations suspended or annulled.

Then there are the horrors.
Those not instantly vaporized or horribly mutilated initially will get to discover what "the walking dead" really is beyond zombies on television. And these contaminated people will exist for years after a detonation. All dying and inflicting slow painful deaths on everyone they contact. New mutated diseases as well as old faithful standard diseases will resurface. Cholera (from drinking contaminated water) will be fresh and brand new once again. (Decades before the areas affected begin to have some semblance of "normal" life...other will never in 5 generations )

So....what is it you think I don't know exactly?

 

[Zavulon]

Shut up, stupid. You're embarrassing yourself.

Actually, its you who are embarrassing yours, by talking nonsense. Twenty survived 40 kt nukes can kill thousands, may be even hundreds of thousands Indian civilians (especially poor ones) but there are more than a billion of them. Losing lesser than 0,1% of population hardly can be called "catastrophic" by any meaningful wartime standard.

 

[Zavulon]

I unfortunately know way too much about the problems associated with nuclear warfare exchanges.

Really?

I've never advocated for any such thing to happen.
But I also understand proper techniques (up to a very limited point) for warfare.

Ok, lets talk.

Nuclear weapons are usually reserved for large targets that conventional warheads cannot eliminate. Like airports, military bases, large rail yards used for hauling heavy equipment to battle.

The principle objective of war is to stop your opponent from being able to wage war against you.

And, first of all, it means his nuclear weapons. Counter-force strike. Right?

Then there exists the international community you have to live with post nuclear exchange. If one of these two maliciously use nuclear warheads against the other....the fallout from such devices will greatly upset the other nations. They may deem them a pariah nation and find themselves in an embargo environment. Assets abroad seized, trade negotiations suspended or annulled.

It depends. Say, Russia is still trading with such "pariah nations" as Iran, North Korea or Venezuela.

Then there are the horrors.

Scary tales, to be exact.

Those not instantly vaporized or horribly mutilated initially will get to discover what "the walking dead" really is beyond zombies on television. And these contaminated people will exist for years after a detonation. All dying and inflicting slow painful deaths on everyone they contact.

Wow, wow, wow... You don't say! And how exactly human beings can be "contaminated"? Mostly they can get some radioactive dirt on their clothes and skins (and it can be easily washed away), or they can eat some food from a contaminated territory with I-131 or Sr-90 (which can be easily prevented by the simpliest means of hygienic control). And even if they managed to got some radioactive Stroncium in their bones - they can "contaminate" other people only one way - force them to eat those bones. If we are talking about more or less developed country (like modern India), with pretty minimal amount of affected zones - up to twenty, and still existed international support, we can be pretty sure, that they can easily handle the situation.

New mutated diseases as well as old faithful standard diseases will resurface. Cholera (from drinking contaminated water) will be fresh and brand new once again. (Decades before the areas affected begin to have some semblance of "normal" life...other will never in 5 generations )

Cholera? Really? Indians love cholera. And no, boiling (or choration) of water easily kill both Vibrio cholerae and Vibrio c.st. El Tor.

 

[JohnDB]

Really?


Ok, lets talk.

And, first of all, it means his nuclear weapons. Counter-force strike. Right?


It depends. Say, Russia is still trading with such "pariah nations" as Iran, North Korea or Venezuela.


Scary tales, to be exact.


Wow, wow, wow... You don't say! And how exactly human beings can be "contaminated"? Mostly they can get some radioactive dirt on their clothes and skins (and it can be easily washed away), or they can eat some food from a contaminated territory with I-131 or Sr-90 (which can be easily prevented by the simpliest means of hygienic control). And even if they managed to got some radioactive Stroncium in their bones - they can "contaminate" other people only one way - force them to eat those bones. If we are talking about more or less developed country (like modern India), with pretty minimal amount of affected zones - up to twenty, and still existed international support, we can be pretty sure, that they can easily handle the situation.


Cholera? Really? Indians love cholera. And no, boiling (or choration) of water easily kill both Vibrio cholerae and Vibrio c.st. El Tor.

We are talking about some of the LEAST educated and educative people in these two nations. Their idea of "contamination" is nowhere near the standards necessary for cleaning up after being exposed to radioactive dust, ashes, or soil. There are many who will go right out to contaminated areas to scrounge for junk to resale.

Yes, some people in both countries are intelligent enough to understand....but the education standards for the average citizen is really low....even among the functional middle class. Nevermind the dysfunctional lower classes.

You can explain until the cows come home but fear and misinformation will rule the day (as it does today in both countries among the masses) Have you seen the continuous piles of trash in both Islamabad or New Deli streets?

Here in the USA....sure, we could recover with minimal tertiary contamination. Those two? It's gonna be as bad as it gets despite government and altruistic aid trying to help.
I ALWAYS thought allowing Pakistan or India having nukes was a bad idea. Now we might get to see why.

There was More fighting today along borders...India is saying they are launching a HUGE attack, coming in 7-10 days.

Not exactly great....

 

[Zavulon]

We are talking about some of the LEAST educated and educative people in these two nations. Their idea of "contamination" is nowhere near the standards necessary for cleaning up after being exposed to radioactive dust, ashes, or soil. There are many who will go right out to contaminated areas to scrounge for junk to resale.

Yes, some people in both countries are intelligent enough to understand....but the education standards for the average citizen is really low....even among the functional middle class. Nevermind the dysfunctional lower classes.

You can explain until the cows come home but fear and misinformation will rule the day (as it does today in both countries among the masses) Have you seen the continuous piles of trash in both Islamabad or New Deli streets?

Yes, I saw. But it's all about ability of police and military to control the situation. They block the affected territories, they force people and go through washers, they shoot trespassers and marauders at sight, they burn out non-affected but close territories to prevent migration of animals and so on... Nothing that they technically can't do. Yes, their ranks and lines are uneducated and ignorant, but the government do know what they have to do. In the worst case they can ask Russians (or Americans or Chinese) for humanitarian aid.

Here in the USA....sure, we could recover with minimal tertiary contamination. Those two? It's gonna be as bad as it gets despite government and altruistic aid trying to help.
I ALWAYS thought allowing Pakistan or India having nukes was a bad idea. Now we might get to see why.

It might be "terrible", but it won't be "too terrible". Actually, it will be a way better than in was in Japan 1945.

There was More fighting today along borders...India is saying they are launching a HUGE attack, coming in 7-10 days.

Not exactly great....

Ok. It normally takes to wipe out up to 20-30% of population to really crush the enemy's will to resistance (if both sides are really determined to fight). Their nukes even in the worst cases could wipe out no more than 1% of their populations. So, most of the victims will die from conventional weapons.

 

[Ringo]

There will be no war: Pakistan has shells for only 4 days of fighting - the rest was sold ... to Ukraine...

 

[JWBooth]

The missiles have been flying today.

 

[Failzero]

The Indians are the colonialists ?

 

[JohnDB]