Independent panel concludes Bush engaged in torture

[kaz]

If others fight in the gutter it is not a justification to lower our standards and join them

I've asked you this over the last couple years many times. You have no answer, yet repeat the delusion. Name one time where anyone flipped sides over this. Someone who would have been our ally and wasn't.

The reality is that anyone who would equate our water boarding to save lives with terrorists murdering people to control them are already one of two things. Our enemy, or a Democrat. And neither of them are swayed by reality.

 

[Yurt]

rightwinger's title is false

"The nation's highest officials bear some responsibility for allowing and contributing to the spread of torture," the report said, though it did not name names.

no names were mentioned, thus, the report did not say bush

rightwinger lied

rightwinger keeps running from the truth

 

[L.K.Eder]

If others fight in the gutter it is not a justification to lower our standards and join them

I've asked you this over the last couple years many times. You have no answer, yet repeat the delusion. Name one time where anyone flipped sides over this. Someone who would have been our ally and wasn't.

The reality is that anyone who would equate our water boarding to save lives with terrorists murdering people to control them are already one of two things. Our enemy, or a Democrat. And neither of them are swayed by reality.

i flipped.

i was one of those guys who thought of AMERICA as the good guys.

the iraq debacle cured the last bits of that delusion.

 

[Skull Pilot]

So, it IS or IS NOT illegal?

It is for you but not for the government.

That is a lie, thanks for playing

Yeah how many government agents that are torturing people as we speak will ever see jail time?

Don't be so ******* naive.

 

[kaz]

If others fight in the gutter it is not a justification to lower our standards and join them

I've asked you this over the last couple years many times. You have no answer, yet repeat the delusion. Name one time where anyone flipped sides over this. Someone who would have been our ally and wasn't.

The reality is that anyone who would equate our water boarding to save lives with terrorists murdering people to control them are already one of two things. Our enemy, or a Democrat. And neither of them are swayed by reality.

i flipped.

i was one of those guys who thought of AMERICA as the good guys.

the iraq debacle cured the last bits of that delusion.

So you wouldn't have flipped over Iraq except for "torture?" If the answer is you would have flipped regardless of "torture," then your contribution is irrelevant since that was the question.

BTW, opposing the Iraq invasion puts you squarely on my side. I do as well. But it's not because of "torture." Iraq was the inevitable conclusion of meddling in other people's affairs and making every bad guy in the world our enemy. We should not have been in the middle east because it wasn't our fight, then we wouldn't have had the enemies that we did.

If you agree with my last statement, then "torture" was irrelevant. And if you don't blame both parties for that then you're not sincere in your belief.

 

[freedombecki]

Yeah, I'm forming an international tribunal with Lupe Rodriguez, the illegal who cleans my neighbor's house. We're going to sentence Bush to 50 years in prison. You just know it's going to scare the hell out of him.

We may mandate world peace, too, if we get around to it.

The panel, which included leading politicians from both parties, two U.S. retired generals and legal and ethics scholars, spent two years examining the U.S. treatment of suspected militants detained after the September 11, 2001, attacks.

Panel members interviewed former Clinton, Bush and Obama administration officials, military officers and former prisoners, and the investigation looked at U.S. practices at Guantanamo, in Afghanistan and Iraq and at the CIA's former secret prisons overseas.

The task force was chaired by Asa Hutchinson, a Republican former congressman and undersecretary of the Department of Homeland Security during the George W. Bush administration, and James Jones, a Democratic former congressman who served as U.S. ambassador to Mexico.

Oh brother. The committee was formed by a former employee of President Bush. And that's supposed to be a neutral person? Like JHHatfield, author of a book about GW that was discredited with publisher's head rolling, who was sent to prison for trying to carbomb his boss, and Bush refused to give him early parole? Oh, bwahahahaha!

You Democrat foamers can be such a scream sometimes.

 

[buckeye45_73]

That is a lie, thanks for playing

Oh please, you guys define jail time without Xbox as torture.....
Second I'm ok with torturing bad guys and external enemies of the US......GO FOR IT
The Constitution does not apply to noncitizens as much as you want everyone to be a US citizen, they simply arent..


And international law is bs......Liberals said so when they didnt want UN resolutions enforced.....you guys made it useless, not us. For God's sake Bush tried to enforce and got attacked by people like you.

Doesn't matter who defines, international hatred etc.

What he said was a lie, period

Yes it does....it's kind of like the death penalty, it matters what degree of murder you're convicted of...it's kind of a big deal
So I mocked your ass about torture, because you think anything Bush did was classified as such. Waterboarding and Dog walking are not torture, maybe humilitating.....but not torture....Torture is brutality like draw and quatering....it's like saying ****** is racism.....not the same man....just because some says ****** doesnt mean they're racist.....

 

[L.K.Eder]

I've asked you this over the last couple years many times. You have no answer, yet repeat the delusion. Name one time where anyone flipped sides over this. Someone who would have been our ally and wasn't.

The reality is that anyone who would equate our water boarding to save lives with terrorists murdering people to control them are already one of two things. Our enemy, or a Democrat. And neither of them are swayed by reality.

i flipped.

i was one of those guys who thought of AMERICA as the good guys.

the iraq debacle cured the last bits of that delusion.

So you wouldn't have flipped over Iraq except for "torture?" If the answer is you would have flipped regardless of "torture," then your contribution is irrelevant since that was the question.

BTW, opposing the Iraq invasion puts you squarely on my side. I do as well. But it's not because of "torture." Iraq was the inevitable conclusion of meddling in other people's affairs and making every bad guy in the world our enemy. We should not have been in the middle east because it wasn't our fight, then we wouldn't have had the enemies that we did.

If you agree with my last statement, then "torture" was irrelevant. And if you don't blame both parties for that then you're not sincere in your belief.

image is not irrelevant.

in west germany, the image of the USA was that of the liberators who handed out chewing gums. soldiers were running for their lives literally to reach the US american occupation zone at the end of WWII.
the usa was the protecting force vs. THE RUSSIANS.

after the cold war, these facts were less relevant. and the role of the US was under scrutiny. the obvious asshole behavior as shown after "nineeleven" ultimately destroyed the image of the good american in west germany.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

they still claim Bush found WMDs

they still insist that Bush didnt crash the economy


they still claim Bush protected us from attack when 911 was his watch.


whats one more lie to the right?

In other words, Repugnat-cans are as blind, vile and dangerous as you Depot-crats are.

 

[kaz]

i flipped.

i was one of those guys who thought of AMERICA as the good guys.

the iraq debacle cured the last bits of that delusion.

So you wouldn't have flipped over Iraq except for "torture?" If the answer is you would have flipped regardless of "torture," then your contribution is irrelevant since that was the question.

BTW, opposing the Iraq invasion puts you squarely on my side. I do as well. But it's not because of "torture." Iraq was the inevitable conclusion of meddling in other people's affairs and making every bad guy in the world our enemy. We should not have been in the middle east because it wasn't our fight, then we wouldn't have had the enemies that we did.

If you agree with my last statement, then "torture" was irrelevant. And if you don't blame both parties for that then you're not sincere in your belief.

image is not irrelevant.

I agree with the statement in general, but I was pointing out it was irrelevant to the post you responded to.

in west germany, the image of the USA was that of the liberators who handed out chewing gums. soldiers were running for their lives literally to reach the US american occupation zone at the end of WWII.
the usa was the protecting force vs. THE RUSSIANS.

after the cold war, these facts were less relevant. and the role of the US was under scrutiny. the obvious asshole behavior as shown after "nineeleven" ultimately destroyed the image of the good american in west germany.

I agree, it's that role that's the issue. If we were fighting a war that was our business for our defense, "torture" would have been irrelevant to the discussion, we have the right to protect ourselves and our troops and I keep quoting "torture" because is wasn't torture.

However, we were fighting a war that wasn't relevant to the defense of the US, and not doing "torture" wouldn't have made it relevant, so once again, "torture" is irrelevant. It is our role that was bad. Again though, Democrats were arm in arm skipping down that lane, if you don't blame them just Republicans then this isn't a relevant discussion, you're just partisan.

Ironically Germany benefited from our taking on Iraq far more than we did. It directs the hatred away from them towards us and Germany is a lot more accessible for attacks.

 

[L.K.Eder]

they still claim Bush found WMDs

they still insist that Bush didnt crash the economy


they still claim Bush protected us from attack when 911 was his watch.


whats one more lie to the right?

In other words, Repugnat-cans are as blind, vile and dangerous as you Depot-crats are.

yeah, the "they are equally bad" lament.

**** off.

 

[rightwinger]

If others fight in the gutter it is not a justification to lower our standards and join them

I've asked you this over the last couple years many times. You have no answer, yet repeat the delusion. Name one time where anyone flipped sides over this. Someone who would have been our ally and wasn't.

The reality is that anyone who would equate our water boarding to save lives with terrorists murdering people to control them are already one of two things. Our enemy, or a Democrat. And neither of them are swayed by reality.

What difference does it make? We are either a moral nation or we are not

Just because our level of torture is less than someone elses does not justify it

 

[Skull Pilot]

If others fight in the gutter it is not a justification to lower our standards and join them

I've asked you this over the last couple years many times. You have no answer, yet repeat the delusion. Name one time where anyone flipped sides over this. Someone who would have been our ally and wasn't.

The reality is that anyone who would equate our water boarding to save lives with terrorists murdering people to control them are already one of two things. Our enemy, or a Democrat. And neither of them are swayed by reality.

What difference does it make? We are either a moral nation or we are not

Just because our level of torture is less than someone elses does not justify it

Torture has always been used by governments, is still being used by governments and will continue to be used by governments including ours.

We are not and never have been a "moral nation".

 

[Yurt]

rightwinger's title is false

"The nation's highest officials bear some responsibility for allowing and contributing to the spread of torture," the report said, though it did not name names.

no names were mentioned, thus, the report did not say bush

rightwinger lied

rightwinger keeps running from the truth

rightwinger?

why do you keep running from this? are you ashamed of your lie?

 

[buckeye45_73]

If others fight in the gutter it is not a justification to lower our standards and join them

I've asked you this over the last couple years many times. You have no answer, yet repeat the delusion. Name one time where anyone flipped sides over this. Someone who would have been our ally and wasn't.

The reality is that anyone who would equate our water boarding to save lives with terrorists murdering people to control them are already one of two things. Our enemy, or a Democrat. And neither of them are swayed by reality.

What difference does it make? We are either a moral nation or we are not

Just because our level of torture is less than someone elses does not justify it

Oh wow the holier than thou left.....I love you guys, personal morality you dont care about, but by God we're not gonna torture people......please torture is a tool I support when needed.....I'd rather torture a person that has info to save hundreds or thousands of lives.....but
Liberals would never torture.....it's just wrong....unless it's their heroes.
Liberals would rather let 1000 murderers go free than convict one innocent man....sorry jack, I'm gonna go with the numbers....one innocent man vs 1000 innocent victums........

But the one think I have control over is my personal morality, and I'm a big fan of enforcing that.

 

[rightwinger]

I've asked you this over the last couple years many times. You have no answer, yet repeat the delusion. Name one time where anyone flipped sides over this. Someone who would have been our ally and wasn't.

The reality is that anyone who would equate our water boarding to save lives with terrorists murdering people to control them are already one of two things. Our enemy, or a Democrat. And neither of them are swayed by reality.

What difference does it make? We are either a moral nation or we are not

Just because our level of torture is less than someone elses does not justify it

Oh wow the holier than thou left.....I love you guys, personal morality you dont care about, but by God we're not gonna torture people......please torture is a tool I support when needed.....I'd rather torture a person that has info to save hundreds or thousands of lives.....but
Liberals would never torture.....it's just wrong....unless it's their heroes.
Liberals would rather let 1000 murderers go free than convict one innocent man....sorry jack, I'm gonna go with the numbers....one innocent man vs 1000 innocent victums........

But the one think I have control over is my personal morality, and I'm a big fan of enforcing that.

Every soldier has information that can save lives. Torture is not justified to retrieve it. That is why it is banned by the Geneva convention

 

[Yurt]

rightwinger's title is false

"The nation's highest officials bear some responsibility for allowing and contributing to the spread of torture," the report said, though it did not name names.

no names were mentioned, thus, the report did not say bush

rightwinger lied

rightwinger keeps running from the truth

rightwinger?

why do you keep running from this? are you ashamed of your lie?

and rightwinger avoids this again

chickenpoop

 

[Mr. Shaman]

I like Bush. In fact the more Bush the better. I understand some of you fellas are a little light in the loafers, but don't knock it until you've tried it.

Yeah....it's not his fault....being a sadistic-prick, and all.

He was (obviously).....

....born that way.

 

[L.K.Eder]

So you wouldn't have flipped over Iraq except for "torture?" If the answer is you would have flipped regardless of "torture," then your contribution is irrelevant since that was the question.

BTW, opposing the Iraq invasion puts you squarely on my side. I do as well. But it's not because of "torture." Iraq was the inevitable conclusion of meddling in other people's affairs and making every bad guy in the world our enemy. We should not have been in the middle east because it wasn't our fight, then we wouldn't have had the enemies that we did.

If you agree with my last statement, then "torture" was irrelevant. And if you don't blame both parties for that then you're not sincere in your belief.

image is not irrelevant.

I agree with the statement in general, but I was pointing out it was irrelevant to the post you responded to.

in west germany, the image of the USA was that of the liberators who handed out chewing gums. soldiers were running for their lives literally to reach the US american occupation zone at the end of WWII.
the usa was the protecting force vs. THE RUSSIANS.

after the cold war, these facts were less relevant. and the role of the US was under scrutiny. the obvious asshole behavior as shown after "nineeleven" ultimately destroyed the image of the good american in west germany.

I agree, it's that role that's the issue. If we were fighting a war that was our business for our defense, "torture" would have been irrelevant to the discussion, we have the right to protect ourselves and our troops and I keep quoting "torture" because is wasn't torture.

However, we were fighting a war that wasn't relevant to the defense of the US, and not doing "torture" wouldn't have made it relevant, so once again, "torture" is irrelevant. It is our role that was bad. Again though, Democrats were arm in arm skipping down that lane, if you don't blame them just Republicans then this isn't a relevant discussion, you're just partisan.

Ironically Germany benefited from our taking on Iraq far more than we did. It directs the hatred away from them towards us and Germany is a lot more accessible for attacks.

i am pleasantly surprised by your response.

this shows me that posting serious stuff on this board is not always wasted. you actually read my stuff.

i have 2 issues with your response.

the bush administration pulled the trigger. they are primarily responsible. all the quotes of democrats the decade before the invasion do show is that apparently they were aware of an asshole in the middle east. but an asshole that was contained, and if there was any doubt about that, a swift aerial bombing campaign was assumed to solve the problem (end of 1998; a la "wag the dog").
the "threat" of saddam was contained or not existent. that was the status quo in 2002.

this was not to be changed by the report of Blix.

so, facts had to be created. by invading. and this invasion was ordered by the bush administration.

i can only say that the opposition were wimps. but not AS responsible.

the second issue concerns your statement that germany profited from the invasion. please elaborate.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Ah, the ole antiquated Republican vs. Democrat paradigm. It's like observing something out of the Jurassic. It's a comical prehistoric sham. Democrats were just fine with Conspiracy Theories when the other side had the power.

Don't *****-OUT, on us, yet!!!

What examples do you have, of the Dems spinning Conspiracy Theories?????


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Who has the time to list em all? Yeah, you guys loved Conspiracy Theories when the other side had the power. Now you're all about the, "You're Evil and Un-American if you dare question the State." Just another partisan Republican vs. Democrat scam. We'll see how you feel about Conspiracy Theories when Republicans are back in power. Should be fun.

That's what I thought.....you've got NOTHIN'!!

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