incandescent bulbs go into the dustbin of history

[flacaltenn]

flacaltenn,
Did the issues with CFL result in LED R&D or was LED going to be the next thing anyway?

Everything was waiting on cost and performance for the LEDs themselves to improve. They were already accepted in large industrial lighting where cost is less of an issue than lifetime.

Currently the LED chips themselves are about $1 each in large qty. About 6 or 8 in a consumer bulb.. If light per watt goes up 20% ,, you can put one less in each bulb.

All this would have happened anyway.. Without heavy handed regulation and people would not have had the bad initial experience with CFLs to ruin perceptions.

 

[mamooth]

It would have happened anyways 5 years later. Thanks to those poliices, it's now. The free market moves much faster when it gets shoved.

So, the environmentalists saved everyone a bunch of cash. You'd think people would show some gratitude. I'm guessing they're just too enraged at seeing yet another environmentalist success go down in the annals of history.

 

[Indofred]

I dropped into a seven eleven yesterday.
In Indonesia, they're using LED strip lights.
How about in America?

 

[Dot Com]

good point.

 

[westwall]

flacaltenn,
Did the issues with CFL result in LED R&D or was LED going to be the next thing anyway?

LED was going to be the next big thing anyway. CFL is a technological dead end.

 

[westwall]

This was a long time coming.

What? Making every landfill a toxic dump? That was your goal?

 

[hunarcy]

This was a long time coming.

What? Making every landfill a toxic dump? That was your goal?

Landfills? Break one and your living room is a toxic dump!

 

[HenryBHough]

I'm a devout believer in LED lighting. I put a set in a difficult location over ten years ago and they're still doing just fine. Projected life had been only seven years but they go on and on. Cost over $18,000 to install (included new fixtures, modifications to control system) of which about $13,000 was flying in specialized labor, their wages, accommodations and meals. Prior to that re-lamping was alternate years at a cost of $12,000 each time. Power cost was reduced by over 80% so payback on electric bills came in less than five years. BUT the location needs those $12,000 maintenance visits only at five year intervals and then only for inspection.

My biggest concern was premature failure from possible lightning strikes but these are not cheap "homeowner" fixtures/lamps (they're called "light engines") and have tremendous surge protection built in. The concern was unwarranted!

 

[ScienceRocks]

We should ban the chemical that causes cancer within these light bulbs.

 

[HenryBHough]

We should ban the chemical that causes cancer within these light bulbs.

I wouldn't worry too much about the cancers within the light bulbs but it's fair to be concerned about people who might sweep up the broken ones. Mostly what they breath from the dust but when they get into the blood through cuts from the broken glass it can get real ugly real fast. And not always just cancer!

 

[Indofred]

Sometime in the next few years, I'll build another house.
That will all be low voltage LED lighting, probably using solar and/or wind power with battery storage and mains as emergency back up.
All the gear is commercially available and cheap; all I have to do is wire it up - easy peasy.

 

[HenryBHough]

Sometime in the next few years, I'll build another house.
That will all be low voltage LED lighting, probably using solar and/or wind power with battery storage and mains as emergency back up.
All the gear is commercially available and cheap; all I have to do is wire it up - easy peasy.

A good plan if you're not over about 40 and have good reason to believe you'll stay in the house for most of the rest of your life.

I once built a "hundred year house" - spent a lot on high grade materials and energy saving. Then lived in it for four years and sold it for market value. The value was up from what it would have cost if built conventionally but a fraction of what I actually put into it.

As to land, from that experience I learned (and have saved others tons of money with the advice) that you never buy anything you don't intend to use in six months or less 'cause beyond that something in life is gonna change. Change in some way you could never have guessed.

 

[Dot Com]

We should ban the chemical that causes cancer within these light bulbs.

true. We need to strengthen the EPA

 

[HelenaHandbag]

It would have happened anyways 5 years later. Thanks to those poliices, it's now. The free market moves much faster when it gets shoved.

The word "free" excludes the act of being shoved around.

So, the environmentalists saved everyone a bunch of cash. You'd think people would show some gratitude. I'm guessing they're just too enraged at seeing yet another environmentalist success go down in the annals of history.

When I meet the SNAP moocher who thanks me in the grocery checkout line, then maybe we can talk.

In the meantime, take you arrogant moral preening and stuff it where the sun don't shine.

 

[flacaltenn]

It would have happened anyways 5 years later. Thanks to those poliices, it's now. The free market moves much faster when it gets shoved.

So, the environmentalists saved everyone a bunch of cash. You'd think people would show some gratitude. I'm guessing they're just too enraged at seeing yet another environmentalist success go down in the annals of history.

Obviously you folks are big shovers... You want THANKS? For killing jobs and forcing a market in FAILED Cfls? You havent even finished and youre declaring victorry.. By unnaturally accelerating the market --- you fools have created virtual monopolies on key pieces of this technology. The shakeout was more violent than it should have been and competition couldnt get its pants on... But HEY youre leftists.. You dont NEED to understand business and tech development.. youre just a bunch of pushers.....

 

[Vandalshandle]

Somehow, I think that we, as a nation, will survive this crisis, and live to see another day....

 

[flacaltenn]

I'm a devout believer in LED lighting. I put a set in a difficult location over ten years ago and they're still doing just fine. Projected life had been only seven years but they go on and on. Cost over $18,000 to install (included new fixtures, modifications to control system) of which about $13,000 was flying in specialized labor, their wages, accommodations and meals. Prior to that re-lamping was alternate years at a cost of $12,000 each time. Power cost was reduced by over 80% so payback on electric bills came in less than five years. BUT the location needs those $12,000 maintenance visits only at five year intervals and then only for inspection.

My biggest concern was premature failure from possible lightning strikes but these are not cheap "homeowner" fixtures/lamps (they're called "light engines") and have tremendous surge protection built in. The concern was unwarranted!

Im sure youre aware that ""old LEDS never die. They just fade away. And the human eye isnt a good photometer. So end of life is described as 70% brightness where the eye might startnseeing a diff. My guess is in consumer apps people will have no idea when to replace. Itll just get progressively slowly dimmer...

Poorly made led bulbs will lose the power supplies first. The really cheap ones in far less then 10 years..

 

[Indeependent]

It would have happened anyways 5 years later. Thanks to those poliices, it's now. The free market moves much faster when it gets shoved.

So, the environmentalists saved everyone a bunch of cash. You'd think people would show some gratitude. I'm guessing they're just too enraged at seeing yet another environmentalist success go down in the annals of history.

Obviously you folks are big shovers... You want THANKS? For killing jobs and forcing a market in FAILED Cfls? You havent even finished and youre declaring victorry.. By unnaturally accelerating the market --- you fools have created virtual monopolies on key pieces of this technology. The shakeout was more violent than it should have been and competition couldnt get its pants on... But HEY youre leftists.. You dont NEED to understand business and tech development.. youre just a bunch of pushers.....

Is there a story you can share concerning this?
Might serve as a good lesson for some of us willing to pay attention.

 

[flacaltenn]

It would have happened anyways 5 years later. Thanks to those poliices, it's now. The free market moves much faster when it gets shoved.

So, the environmentalists saved everyone a bunch of cash. You'd think people would show some gratitude. I'm guessing they're just too enraged at seeing yet another environmentalist success go down in the annals of history.

Obviously you folks are big shovers... You want THANKS? For killing jobs and forcing a market in FAILED Cfls? You havent even finished and youre declaring victorry.. By unnaturally accelerating the market --- you fools have created virtual monopolies on key pieces of this technology. The shakeout was more violent than it should have been and competition couldnt get its pants on... But HEY youre leftists.. You dont NEED to understand business and tech development.. youre just a bunch of pushers.....

Is there a story you can share concerning this?
Might serve as a good lesson for some of us willing to pay attention.

I watched several large LED developers drop out because pricesmplummeted too fast. Leaving the best tech in very few hands.. wouldnt be too exciting to describe the details. I also saw jobs and manufacturing go IMMEDIATELY to China even when there were plans to run automated manufacturing here in the states.. Didnt have the TIME to do it the US the better way.. Would miss the initial market......

So everyone pucker up to kiss that leftist ass for PUSHING this as a crisis.

 

[HenryBHough]

Im sure youre aware that ""old LEDS never die. They just fade away. And the human eye isnt a good photometer. So end of life is described as 70% brightness where the eye might startnseeing a diff. My guess is in consumer apps people will have no idea when to replace. Itll just get progressively slowly dimmer...

Poorly made led bulbs will lose the power supplies first. The really cheap ones in far less then 10 years..

Exactly so!

Fortunately a different user also installed LED markers on a site 1/2 mile closer to the reference viewing point some 3 years after my installation.. At the moment the further illumination (the markers are only about 5-degrees apart) is equal to or brighter than the closer and newer source. At some point the older ones will dim before the newer ones and that'll mark the time to replace. Replace NOT the "light engines" - rather the entire fixtures because the latest versions are 1/2 the size and use 1/2 the already miserly power consumption of the originals.

http://www.specialtytowerlighting.com/pdfs/LED 864 LED SPECS.pdf

Note Wattage = 70 Watts vs. 1,240 Watts for a similar incandescent figure.