In Germany, land of strict gun control,18 year old had pistol without a permit...psychiatric care..

[Fenton Lum]

Clearly this would not have happened if Germany had no gun laws.

It happened with all of their gun control laws........that is the important point...

So German women can't have the same pistol this kid got illegally.....to defend themselves.....and all those gun control laws failed to stop this kid...but the woman being attacked on the street......those gun control laws worked like a charm......they kept that woman from stopping the attack.....

I don't think you have an important point, sorry.

I know....you are a left winger....you can't think rationally......it probably isn't your fault....your brain didn't develop the ability to understand facts, the truth, reality or the difference between Right and Wrong and Good and Evil.......

Your opinion just isn't intelligent......you just can't help it....

As a conservative I believe Germany can and should have the sovereignty to rule their nation their way, so no, I won't join you in soiling yourself over this.

And you’re just here to spew partisanshithead crap anyway, as you’ve demonstrated here.

 

[2aguy]

Clearly this would not have happened if Germany had no gun laws.

It happened with all of their gun control laws........that is the important point...

So German women can't have the same pistol this kid got illegally.....to defend themselves.....and all those gun control laws failed to stop this kid...but the woman being attacked on the street......those gun control laws worked like a charm......they kept that woman from stopping the attack.....

I absolutely detest your vision of a world where a woman taking her kid to McDonalds has to carry a gun. If you were honest, you would run the true statistics of the gun death rate in Germany compared to the United States. But you won't, because gun control works.

I detest that you would disarm good people.......and allow them to be helpless when they are raped, beaten, robbed or murdered...that you prefer that innocent people be helpless, and unable to defend themselves and their families......

Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop violent attack...that is rapes, beatings, stabbings and murder.......they save lives...and often, when they are allowed to have their guns, they stop these mass shootings.......

yet you would prefer that those 1,500,000 people suffer...........you are the one on the wrong end of this.....your are irrational...and will not see the truth or the reality.

 

[2aguy]

Clearly this would not have happened if Germany had no gun laws.

It happened with all of their gun control laws........that is the important point...

So German women can't have the same pistol this kid got illegally.....to defend themselves.....and all those gun control laws failed to stop this kid...but the woman being attacked on the street......those gun control laws worked like a charm......they kept that woman from stopping the attack.....

I don't think you have an important point, sorry.

I know....you are a left winger....you can't think rationally......it probably isn't your fault....your brain didn't develop the ability to understand facts, the truth, reality or the difference between Right and Wrong and Good and Evil.......

Your opinion just isn't intelligent......you just can't help it....

As a conservative I believe Germany can and should have the sovereignty to rule their nation their way, so no, I won't join you in soiling yourself over this.

And you’re just here to spew partisanshithead crap anyway, as you’ve demonstrated here.

Yeah...no one said any differently......we use this to show fools like you that everything you say about guns is wrong.......stupid and wrong........every real world example shows that you don't know what you are talking about....that everything you say on this issue has no basis in reality.........

But you just call it partisan...I will call it what it is.....the truth.

 

[BULLDOG]

Yes.......Germany has all of the anti gun laws that anti gun activists here want....outside of a confiscation like Britain and Australia.....and this 18 year old got his hands on a pistol....without a permit......again, in a country with every single anti-gun law the anti gunners here want...

Munich gunman 'obsessed with mass shootings' - BBC News

He had a 9mm Glock pistol and 300 bullets in his rucksack.

Police do not yet know how the weapon was acquired, but said he had no permit for it and the serial number had been obliterated.

They are investigating whether he may have lured his victims through a Facebook invitation to the McDonald's restaurant where he launched his attack on Friday evening.


Hey.....he was even under psychiatric care.............

Police say the Munich-born gunman had been in psychiatric care, receiving treatment for depression.

Germany has lots of guns. Less than U.S. or Iraq, but then everybody has less than us and most have less than Iraq. In a comparison of the rate of private gun ownership in 178 countries, Germany ranked at No. 15.

Here is where others ranked

United States 1
Iraq 8
Oman 17
Greece 23
Turkey 52
Iran 79
Pakistan 57
Egypt 115
Palestine 118
Uzbekistan 133

With that many guns available , no law will completely prevent what happened.

 

[BULLDOG]

Clearly this would not have happened if Germany had no gun laws.

It happened with all of their gun control laws........that is the important point...

So German women can't have the same pistol this kid got illegally.....to defend themselves.....and all those gun control laws failed to stop this kid...but the woman being attacked on the street......those gun control laws worked like a charm......they kept that woman from stopping the attack.....

I absolutely detest your vision of a world where a woman taking her kid to McDonalds has to carry a gun. If you were honest, you would run the true statistics of the gun death rate in Germany compared to the United States. But you won't, because gun control works.

I detest that you would disarm good people.......and allow them to be helpless when they are raped, beaten, robbed or murdered...that you prefer that innocent people be helpless, and unable to defend themselves and their families......

Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop violent attack...that is rapes, beatings, stabbings and murder.......they save lives...and often, when they are allowed to have their guns, they stop these mass shootings.......

yet you would prefer that those 1,500,000 people suffer...........you are the one on the wrong end of this.....your are irrational...and will not see the truth or the reality.

How many of those crimes involve the use of guns?

 

[2aguy]

Yes.......Germany has all of the anti gun laws that anti gun activists here want....outside of a confiscation like Britain and Australia.....and this 18 year old got his hands on a pistol....without a permit......again, in a country with every single anti-gun law the anti gunners here want...

Munich gunman 'obsessed with mass shootings' - BBC News

He had a 9mm Glock pistol and 300 bullets in his rucksack.

Police do not yet know how the weapon was acquired, but said he had no permit for it and the serial number had been obliterated.

They are investigating whether he may have lured his victims through a Facebook invitation to the McDonald's restaurant where he launched his attack on Friday evening.


Hey.....he was even under psychiatric care.............

Police say the Munich-born gunman had been in psychiatric care, receiving treatment for depression.

Germany has lots of guns. Less than U.S. or Iraq, but then everybody has less than us and most have less than Iraq. In a comparison of the rate of private gun ownership in 178 countries, Germany ranked at No. 15.

Here is where others ranked

United States 1
Iraq 8
Oman 17
Greece 23
Turkey 52
Iran 79
Pakistan 57
Egypt 115
Palestine 118
Uzbekistan 133

With that many guns available , no law will completely prevent what happened.

Access to guns by normal people is never the problem...they don't use them to commit crimes............and no amount of gun control stops criminals......or mass shooters..as this kid shows....

 

[2aguy]

Clearly this would not have happened if Germany had no gun laws.

It happened with all of their gun control laws........that is the important point...

So German women can't have the same pistol this kid got illegally.....to defend themselves.....and all those gun control laws failed to stop this kid...but the woman being attacked on the street......those gun control laws worked like a charm......they kept that woman from stopping the attack.....

I absolutely detest your vision of a world where a woman taking her kid to McDonalds has to carry a gun. If you were honest, you would run the true statistics of the gun death rate in Germany compared to the United States. But you won't, because gun control works.

I detest that you would disarm good people.......and allow them to be helpless when they are raped, beaten, robbed or murdered...that you prefer that innocent people be helpless, and unable to defend themselves and their families......

Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop violent attack...that is rapes, beatings, stabbings and murder.......they save lives...and often, when they are allowed to have their guns, they stop these mass shootings.......

yet you would prefer that those 1,500,000 people suffer...........you are the one on the wrong end of this.....your are irrational...and will not see the truth or the reality.

How many of those crimes involve the use of guns?

What difference does it make......1,500,000 times a u at guns are used to stop violent attack by criminals with guns, knives, clubs and bare hands.......lives saved.....

 

[Andylusion]

Clearly this would not have happened if Germany had no gun laws.

It happened with all of their gun control laws........that is the important point...

So German women can't have the same pistol this kid got illegally.....to defend themselves.....and all those gun control laws failed to stop this kid...but the woman being attacked on the street......those gun control laws worked like a charm......they kept that woman from stopping the attack.....

I absolutely detest your vision of a world where a woman taking her kid to McDonalds has to carry a gun. If you were honest, you would run the true statistics of the gun death rate in Germany compared to the United States. But you won't, because gun control works.

Control has never worked. The only thing that would change about the world you detest, where a woman has to carry a gun to go to McDonald's, is that she wouldn't be allowed to carry the guy she needed, to go to McDonald's.

Instead of having a chance to fight back, she would be barred by law from fighting back. Nothing else in your vision would change, except she would be killed, or raped, like a cattle to slaughter, with no hope thanks to you, of fighting back.

Just like those Germans had no hope of fighting back against one single man armed with an average pistol.

Gun control didn't stop the criminal. It only stopped the victims. You should be proud of your accomplishment at allowing innocent Germans die. After all, you claim it works.... well there you go. There's your gun laws "working". Pat yourself on the back.

 

[depotoo]

Islamist extremists hide huge stockpile of weapons near German mosque
I detest a world where the enemy has them even when they are outlawed, law matters not to them.

HUGE stash of weapons reportedly belonging to Islamist extremists have been found hidden near a mosque in Germany.

Clearly this would not have happened if Germany had no gun laws.

It happened with all of their gun control laws........that is the important point...

So German women can't have the same pistol this kid got illegally.....to defend themselves.....and all those gun control laws failed to stop this kid...but the woman being attacked on the street......those gun control laws worked like a charm......they kept that woman from stopping the attack.....

I absolutely detest your vision of a world where a woman taking her kid to McDonalds has to carry a gun. If you were honest, you would run the true statistics of the gun death rate in Germany compared to the United States. But you won't, because gun control works.

 

[BULLDOG]

Clearly this would not have happened if Germany had no gun laws.

It happened with all of their gun control laws........that is the important point...

So German women can't have the same pistol this kid got illegally.....to defend themselves.....and all those gun control laws failed to stop this kid...but the woman being attacked on the street......those gun control laws worked like a charm......they kept that woman from stopping the attack.....

I absolutely detest your vision of a world where a woman taking her kid to McDonalds has to carry a gun. If you were honest, you would run the true statistics of the gun death rate in Germany compared to the United States. But you won't, because gun control works.

I detest that you would disarm good people.......and allow them to be helpless when they are raped, beaten, robbed or murdered...that you prefer that innocent people be helpless, and unable to defend themselves and their families......

Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop violent attack...that is rapes, beatings, stabbings and murder.......they save lives...and often, when they are allowed to have their guns, they stop these mass shootings.......

yet you would prefer that those 1,500,000 people suffer...........you are the one on the wrong end of this.....your are irrational...and will not see the truth or the reality.

How many of those crimes involve the use of guns?

What difference does it make......1,500,000 times a u at guns are used to stop violent attack by criminals with guns, knives, clubs and bare hands.......lives saved.....

The U.S. has 3 times as many guns as Germany per 100,000 people, but 10 times the gun related deaths per 100,000 people. You don't think those laws make a difference? Even you aren't dumb enough to think that.

 

[BULLDOG]

Clearly this would not have happened if Germany had no gun laws.

It happened with all of their gun control laws........that is the important point...

So German women can't have the same pistol this kid got illegally.....to defend themselves.....and all those gun control laws failed to stop this kid...but the woman being attacked on the street......those gun control laws worked like a charm......they kept that woman from stopping the attack.....

I absolutely detest your vision of a world where a woman taking her kid to McDonalds has to carry a gun. If you were honest, you would run the true statistics of the gun death rate in Germany compared to the United States. But you won't, because gun control works.

Control has never worked. The only thing that would change about the world you detest, where a woman has to carry a gun to go to McDonald's, is that she wouldn't be allowed to carry the guy she needed, to go to McDonald's.

Instead of having a chance to fight back, she would be barred by law from fighting back. Nothing else in your vision would change, except she would be killed, or raped, like a cattle to slaughter, with no hope thanks to you, of fighting back.

Just like those Germans had no hope of fighting back against one single man armed with an average pistol.

Gun control didn't stop the criminal. It only stopped the victims. You should be proud of your accomplishment at allowing innocent Germans die. After all, you claim it works.... well there you go. There's your gun laws "working". Pat yourself on the back.

Germany's gun related death rate is 1/10 the U.S. rate.

 

[2aguy]

It happened with all of their gun control laws........that is the important point...

So German women can't have the same pistol this kid got illegally.....to defend themselves.....and all those gun control laws failed to stop this kid...but the woman being attacked on the street......those gun control laws worked like a charm......they kept that woman from stopping the attack.....

I absolutely detest your vision of a world where a woman taking her kid to McDonalds has to carry a gun. If you were honest, you would run the true statistics of the gun death rate in Germany compared to the United States. But you won't, because gun control works.

I detest that you would disarm good people.......and allow them to be helpless when they are raped, beaten, robbed or murdered...that you prefer that innocent people be helpless, and unable to defend themselves and their families......

Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop violent attack...that is rapes, beatings, stabbings and murder.......they save lives...and often, when they are allowed to have their guns, they stop these mass shootings.......

yet you would prefer that those 1,500,000 people suffer...........you are the one on the wrong end of this.....your are irrational...and will not see the truth or the reality.

How many of those crimes involve the use of guns?

What difference does it make......1,500,000 times a u at guns are used to stop violent attack by criminals with guns, knives, clubs and bare hands.......lives saved.....

The U.S. has 3 times as many guns as Germany per 100,000 people, but 10 times the gun related deaths per 100,000 people. You don't think those laws make a difference? Even you aren't dumb enough to think that.

No...I don't. The culture determines the murder rate......Japan has a non criminal culture....all of their crime is very small, not just murder....Chicago has 3 million people....New York City has 8 million people...they both have extreme gun control....but Chicago has a far higher gun murder rate than New York....why? Our criminals murder each other more.........New York.....their gangs are more under control of their upper level leadership.

 

[BULLDOG]

I absolutely detest your vision of a world where a woman taking her kid to McDonalds has to carry a gun. If you were honest, you would run the true statistics of the gun death rate in Germany compared to the United States. But you won't, because gun control works.

I detest that you would disarm good people.......and allow them to be helpless when they are raped, beaten, robbed or murdered...that you prefer that innocent people be helpless, and unable to defend themselves and their families......

Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop violent attack...that is rapes, beatings, stabbings and murder.......they save lives...and often, when they are allowed to have their guns, they stop these mass shootings.......

yet you would prefer that those 1,500,000 people suffer...........you are the one on the wrong end of this.....your are irrational...and will not see the truth or the reality.

How many of those crimes involve the use of guns?

What difference does it make......1,500,000 times a u at guns are used to stop violent attack by criminals with guns, knives, clubs and bare hands.......lives saved.....

The U.S. has 3 times as many guns as Germany per 100,000 people, but 10 times the gun related deaths per 100,000 people. You don't think those laws make a difference? Even you aren't dumb enough to think that.

No...I don't. The culture determines the murder rate......Japan has a non criminal culture....all of their crime is very small, not just murder....Chicago has 3 million people....New York City has 8 million people...they both have extreme gun control....but Chicago has a far higher gun murder rate than New York....why? Our criminals murder each other more.........New York.....their gangs are more under control of their upper level leadership.

Doesn't hold up. Saying we are just more inclined to shoot people is nuts.

 

[Andylusion]

It happened with all of their gun control laws........that is the important point...

So German women can't have the same pistol this kid got illegally.....to defend themselves.....and all those gun control laws failed to stop this kid...but the woman being attacked on the street......those gun control laws worked like a charm......they kept that woman from stopping the attack.....

I absolutely detest your vision of a world where a woman taking her kid to McDonalds has to carry a gun. If you were honest, you would run the true statistics of the gun death rate in Germany compared to the United States. But you won't, because gun control works.

I detest that you would disarm good people.......and allow them to be helpless when they are raped, beaten, robbed or murdered...that you prefer that innocent people be helpless, and unable to defend themselves and their families......

Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop violent attack...that is rapes, beatings, stabbings and murder.......they save lives...and often, when they are allowed to have their guns, they stop these mass shootings.......

yet you would prefer that those 1,500,000 people suffer...........you are the one on the wrong end of this.....your are irrational...and will not see the truth or the reality.

How many of those crimes involve the use of guns?

What difference does it make......1,500,000 times a u at guns are used to stop violent attack by criminals with guns, knives, clubs and bare hands.......lives saved.....

The U.S. has 3 times as many guns as Germany per 100,000 people, but 10 times the gun related deaths per 100,000 people. You don't think those laws make a difference? Even you aren't dumb enough to think that.

No, I don't. If anyone is thinking dumb... it's someone who magically thinks that if I own 5 guns, that means the guns are slowly influencing my brain to become violent and start shooting people.

In every single country where gun laws have been implemented, or increased, or made stricter, the amount of crime over all, and in most cases the amount of gun crime, increases.

Germany has tighter gun laws than even the UK, and yet gun deaths are double that of the UK. "You don't think those laws make a difference?" Huh? What's up now?

And after the 2009 mass shooting by a 17-year-old at a school which left 16 people dead.... they increased the gun laws even more. Yet this shooting just happened. "You don't think those laws make a difference?" Yeah, what's up with that?

Over and over it's proven these laws don't work. Over and over, the failures stack a mile high, and yet you mindlessly parrot "don't you think">... yes we do... it's you that doesn't.

 

[2aguy]

I detest that you would disarm good people.......and allow them to be helpless when they are raped, beaten, robbed or murdered...that you prefer that innocent people be helpless, and unable to defend themselves and their families......

Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop violent attack...that is rapes, beatings, stabbings and murder.......they save lives...and often, when they are allowed to have their guns, they stop these mass shootings.......

yet you would prefer that those 1,500,000 people suffer...........you are the one on the wrong end of this.....your are irrational...and will not see the truth or the reality.

How many of those crimes involve the use of guns?

What difference does it make......1,500,000 times a u at guns are used to stop violent attack by criminals with guns, knives, clubs and bare hands.......lives saved.....

The U.S. has 3 times as many guns as Germany per 100,000 people, but 10 times the gun related deaths per 100,000 people. You don't think those laws make a difference? Even you aren't dumb enough to think that.

No...I don't. The culture determines the murder rate......Japan has a non criminal culture....all of their crime is very small, not just murder....Chicago has 3 million people....New York City has 8 million people...they both have extreme gun control....but Chicago has a far higher gun murder rate than New York....why? Our criminals murder each other more.........New York.....their gangs are more under control of their upper level leadership.

Doesn't hold up. Saying we are just more inclined to shoot people is nuts.

No it isn't....we aren't more inclined to shoot people.....our criminals in our inner cities are more inclined to shoot each other......remember, 90% of shooters are criminals, convicted felons .....

Chicago gang members are willing to lure 9 year olds into alleys and shoot them because their gang banger father shot the killers brother......you don't see that kind of murder over seas with their criminal class.....there is a cultural difference.......

 

[Mindful]

Then there is the Mafia:

Russian mafia 'increasingly active' in Germany

 

[2aguy]

I detest that you would disarm good people.......and allow them to be helpless when they are raped, beaten, robbed or murdered...that you prefer that innocent people be helpless, and unable to defend themselves and their families......

Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop violent attack...that is rapes, beatings, stabbings and murder.......they save lives...and often, when they are allowed to have their guns, they stop these mass shootings.......

yet you would prefer that those 1,500,000 people suffer...........you are the one on the wrong end of this.....your are irrational...and will not see the truth or the reality.

How many of those crimes involve the use of guns?

What difference does it make......1,500,000 times a u at guns are used to stop violent attack by criminals with guns, knives, clubs and bare hands.......lives saved.....

The U.S. has 3 times as many guns as Germany per 100,000 people, but 10 times the gun related deaths per 100,000 people. You don't think those laws make a difference? Even you aren't dumb enough to think that.

No...I don't. The culture determines the murder rate......Japan has a non criminal culture....all of their crime is very small, not just murder....Chicago has 3 million people....New York City has 8 million people...they both have extreme gun control....but Chicago has a far higher gun murder rate than New York....why? Our criminals murder each other more.........New York.....their gangs are more under control of their upper level leadership.

Doesn't hold up. Saying we are just more inclined to shoot people is nuts.

Westwall is right....check out these numbers.......for 2007

Gun homicides and gun ownership by country - The Washington Post

Guns per 100 people:

England .....6.2....total gun deaths... 41

Germany.... 30.3 total gun deaths... 158

France....... 31.2 total gun deaths... 35

Switzerland.. 45.7 total gun deaths 57

Austria..... 14 total gun deaths... 18

Finland..... 45.3 total gun deaths... 24

Belgium.... 17.2 total gun deaths..... 70

New Zealand... 22.6 total gun deaths 7

Australia.... 15 total gun deaths... 30

Netherlands.... 3.9 total gun deaths... 55

So...with these numbers.....why does England, with the lowest gun ownership rate, have one of the highest gun murder rates.....While Finland....with one of the highest gun ownership rates, has a lower gun murder rate than the island nation of England?

Bulldog....you are wrong...access to guns isn't the issue........the culture of the criminal in the country is the issue.....

Bulldog.....can you explain the numbers for Australia and New Zealand?

 

[OldLady]

Clearly this would not have happened if Germany had no gun laws.

It happened with all of their gun control laws........that is the important point...

So German women can't have the same pistol this kid got illegally.....to defend themselves.....and all those gun control laws failed to stop this kid...but the woman being attacked on the street......those gun control laws worked like a charm......they kept that woman from stopping the attack.....

I absolutely detest your vision of a world where a woman taking her kid to McDonalds has to carry a gun. If you were honest, you would run the true statistics of the gun death rate in Germany compared to the United States. But you won't, because gun control works.

The size to compare is not fair NOR the population count. You are requesting fair but requiring bias standards.

I don't understand what you mean. I would expect the comparison to be per-capita, so the much smaller number of people living in Germany would be taken into account.

 

[OldLady]

Clearly this would not have happened if Germany had no gun laws.

It happened with all of their gun control laws........that is the important point...

So German women can't have the same pistol this kid got illegally.....to defend themselves.....and all those gun control laws failed to stop this kid...but the woman being attacked on the street......those gun control laws worked like a charm......they kept that woman from stopping the attack.....

I absolutely detest your vision of a world where a woman taking her kid to McDonalds has to carry a gun. If you were honest, you would run the true statistics of the gun death rate in Germany compared to the United States. But you won't, because gun control works.

Hmmm...do you think mothers in that McDonalds would have liked to have had a gun that day? They may have stopped the killer cold....it was another gun free zone.....and the 18 year old kid, who could not legally own a gun for multiple reasons...couldn't pass the background check, too young, couldn't own the semi auto pistol......and yet he was the only one there with a gun.........and he murdered children........

German gun control laws did not stop the attack....you are wrong.........I'll say it again...you are wrong.

I don't have to run the gun death rate in Germany vs. the U.S. because it isn't about guns....it is about culture......you twits don't understand that....

It is obvious that there are legal and illegal guns in Germany......so that means...for you anti gunners, that criminals can and do get them easily.....no matter how intense, and extreme their gun control laws are for normal German citizens.......

They get them when they want or need them....they simply do not use them to commit murder........

Our thugs commit murder because of cultural reasons...our non gun murder rate is higher than other countries total murder rate....so you are just plain wrong....

Tell us how gun control works when fully automatic weapons are status symbols in France....where they are completely illegal.........explain that.....

Explain why it is that Britain confiscated their guns....and the gun crime rate stayed the same....and went up 4% last year...and their cops are finding more and more fully automatic weapons on the streets, they are arming more of their cops with guns...and they are sending armed patrols into neighborhoods with high levels of gun violence.....

Please explain how that shows that gun control laws that keep normal people from owning guns actually work?

And you can't.

Guy, you can't flip back and forth like this. Either crime goes down because more people own guns or crime goes down because less people own guns. You can't change the argument half way through and say crime goes down because of the culture.
I actually agree that the culture argument is no doubt true--in being part of what we need to do in this country to change things. But your stance, of encouraging more guns, is not the way to change the culture either.

 

[OldLady]

Clearly this would not have happened if Germany had no gun laws.

It happened with all of their gun control laws........that is the important point...

So German women can't have the same pistol this kid got illegally.....to defend themselves.....and all those gun control laws failed to stop this kid...but the woman being attacked on the street......those gun control laws worked like a charm......they kept that woman from stopping the attack.....

I absolutely detest your vision of a world where a woman taking her kid to McDonalds has to carry a gun. If you were honest, you would run the true statistics of the gun death rate in Germany compared to the United States. But you won't, because gun control works.

I've taken my children out to eat thousands of times and I NEVER needed a gun. And gun control doesn't work. Criminals have never followed the law. And trying to compare the stats of a country with only a fraction of the population we do is ignorant at best. You've become too old, to indoctrinated & too gullible to be in this conversation in any meaningful capacity

Then ignore me. I'm not the only old, doddering fool who believes gun control cuts down on gun deaths. Ask anyone in Europe, where gun control works.