Qball
Corner Pocket
I've been seeing many people deride Mike Pence's debate performance because it doesn't seem like he did enough to defend Trump against Tim Kaine bringing up statements Trump has made. They were saying Mike Pence was lying when he kept saying "that's not true" against Kaine's mostly true recitations of Trump's statements. Eh? I don't think Pence did anything wrong, I don't think he was lying, and I think this debate will wind up helping Trump and hurting Hilary for the duration of the campaign. Here's why:
1. Trump is his own man.
Love him or hate him, I think it's clear to everyone that Trump is his own man. He shoots from the hip, he speaks his mind, he lashes out when he feels insulted, and most importantly, he doesn't really apologize for it. This makes him all at once a maddening and compelling figure in terms of politics, in part because he seems to get away with it. I don't think most people really expected Mike Pence to be Trump's clean-up man as much as a nice contrast. Pence came off like a midwestern Republican, which is exactly who he is. I don't know if there are that many people who "get" Trump in American politics, which is kind of his appeal.
2. Trump is a grown ass man.
Mike Pence is not Trump's sponsor, not is he a surrogate in the vein of Katrina Pierson and Kellyanne Conway. If people want to complain about Trump saying mean things about it, confront him on it yourself! Pence offered a few subtle departures to some of Trump's policy ideas, but I don't think it should matter one way or the other if he didn't properly massage and soothe people's misgivings over Trump's Greatest Hits.
3. Defend what, exactly?
Most of the comments Kaine mentioned from Trump were made prior to Pence joining the campaign -- which speaks to the shelf life of some of these indictments in and of itself -- and many of them were prior to Trump even running for office. Hey sports fans, remember that week in 2007 when Rosie O'Donnell and Trump shit-talked each other? Doesn't that speak to his "treatment of women"? Even the Miss Universe thing -- it was probably dumb for Trump to double down on insulting the woman's weight; on the other hand, Hillary brought it up, and the media ran with it. The entire story is just a big nothingburger, but if you want to talk about it, don't get Pollyanna when talking about it. Also: Trump said some Mexicans who cross the border illegally are rapists and murderers. So...is the issue that's categorically untrue? Or is it that the media wants to play customer service agent for a minority voting bloc by continuing to bring up Trump's comments from over a year ago?
4. Most of the moderator's questions didn't touch on Trump's rude comments.
I would deduct some points from Pence for not answering the question, which he didn't do several times in the debate, but I'm not going to ding him for not indulging Kaine's smirking prodding over Trump's comments and tax returns. He would bring them up and the moderator would remind them that the topic is Russia. So Kaine interrupted and prodded to make mostly extraneous remarks about Trump.
5. Everything has a shelf-life, folks.
Pence ignoring and dismissing Tim Kaine's constant listing of Trump's comments probably echoed the sentiments of the public to some extent. The media will sit and gnaw on every bit of red meat Trump gives them -- which is why he does it and why he usually gets away with it -- but most of us don't care that much. Hillary and Trump have two more debates and roughly five weeks left. Between the first debate and Kaine's performance last night, I think Hillary has maybe a week and half left to do the whole "Trump hurts people's precious feelings" thing before it stops being effective at all. Trump's success in this race thus far is sort of the result of people being tired of the typical smears leveled at Republicans -- racist, sexist, homophobe, xenophobe, etc -- and it seeming like business-as-usual for Democrats and the Democrat-friendly media. Trump's just the first Republican to proudly embody the role the media wants him to play.
6. Putting a fine-point on Trump's nastiness doesn't square the whole "Crooked Hillary" thing.
The media mostly stumps for Hillary -- no big surprise there -- but none of Trump's buffoonery put our national security at risk. Speculate all you want about Trump's tax returns, but we know Hillary broke federal law and got away with it. We know she used the State Department to broker deals for the Clinton Foundation. We know she's just as Wall St. as Trump, if not more so. At a certain point, Hillary's going to have to come around to being some version of a good candidate as opposed to not being Donald Trump. Winning on points is cool, but it's not endearing her to voters.
1. Trump is his own man.
Love him or hate him, I think it's clear to everyone that Trump is his own man. He shoots from the hip, he speaks his mind, he lashes out when he feels insulted, and most importantly, he doesn't really apologize for it. This makes him all at once a maddening and compelling figure in terms of politics, in part because he seems to get away with it. I don't think most people really expected Mike Pence to be Trump's clean-up man as much as a nice contrast. Pence came off like a midwestern Republican, which is exactly who he is. I don't know if there are that many people who "get" Trump in American politics, which is kind of his appeal.
2. Trump is a grown ass man.
Mike Pence is not Trump's sponsor, not is he a surrogate in the vein of Katrina Pierson and Kellyanne Conway. If people want to complain about Trump saying mean things about it, confront him on it yourself! Pence offered a few subtle departures to some of Trump's policy ideas, but I don't think it should matter one way or the other if he didn't properly massage and soothe people's misgivings over Trump's Greatest Hits.
3. Defend what, exactly?
Most of the comments Kaine mentioned from Trump were made prior to Pence joining the campaign -- which speaks to the shelf life of some of these indictments in and of itself -- and many of them were prior to Trump even running for office. Hey sports fans, remember that week in 2007 when Rosie O'Donnell and Trump shit-talked each other? Doesn't that speak to his "treatment of women"? Even the Miss Universe thing -- it was probably dumb for Trump to double down on insulting the woman's weight; on the other hand, Hillary brought it up, and the media ran with it. The entire story is just a big nothingburger, but if you want to talk about it, don't get Pollyanna when talking about it. Also: Trump said some Mexicans who cross the border illegally are rapists and murderers. So...is the issue that's categorically untrue? Or is it that the media wants to play customer service agent for a minority voting bloc by continuing to bring up Trump's comments from over a year ago?
4. Most of the moderator's questions didn't touch on Trump's rude comments.
I would deduct some points from Pence for not answering the question, which he didn't do several times in the debate, but I'm not going to ding him for not indulging Kaine's smirking prodding over Trump's comments and tax returns. He would bring them up and the moderator would remind them that the topic is Russia. So Kaine interrupted and prodded to make mostly extraneous remarks about Trump.
5. Everything has a shelf-life, folks.
Pence ignoring and dismissing Tim Kaine's constant listing of Trump's comments probably echoed the sentiments of the public to some extent. The media will sit and gnaw on every bit of red meat Trump gives them -- which is why he does it and why he usually gets away with it -- but most of us don't care that much. Hillary and Trump have two more debates and roughly five weeks left. Between the first debate and Kaine's performance last night, I think Hillary has maybe a week and half left to do the whole "Trump hurts people's precious feelings" thing before it stops being effective at all. Trump's success in this race thus far is sort of the result of people being tired of the typical smears leveled at Republicans -- racist, sexist, homophobe, xenophobe, etc -- and it seeming like business-as-usual for Democrats and the Democrat-friendly media. Trump's just the first Republican to proudly embody the role the media wants him to play.
6. Putting a fine-point on Trump's nastiness doesn't square the whole "Crooked Hillary" thing.
The media mostly stumps for Hillary -- no big surprise there -- but none of Trump's buffoonery put our national security at risk. Speculate all you want about Trump's tax returns, but we know Hillary broke federal law and got away with it. We know she used the State Department to broker deals for the Clinton Foundation. We know she's just as Wall St. as Trump, if not more so. At a certain point, Hillary's going to have to come around to being some version of a good candidate as opposed to not being Donald Trump. Winning on points is cool, but it's not endearing her to voters.
