Immigration is Destroying America.

[RKMBrown]

As to population size, who gives a damn whether we have 150,000,000 or 300,000,000?

Anyone with the ability to think rationally and the willingness to look beyond the end of their own nose. That does not, it is by now apparent, include you.

The more population we have above 30 Million, the more we increase THESE >>

Harms of Immigration

1. Americans lose jobs. (especially Whites due to affirmative action).

2. Wage reduction.

3. Tax $ lost (due to off books work + lower wages paid).

4. Remittance $$$ lost. ($170 Billion year).

5. Tax $$ lost to immigrants on welfare.

6. Increased crime.

7. Increased traffic congestion.

8. Increased pollution.

9. Overcrowding in hospital ERs.

10. Overcrowding in recreational facilities.

11. Overcrowding in government offices.

12. Overcrowding in schools.

13. Decrease in funds available for entitlements.

14. Cultural erosion.

15. Overuse of scarce resources (oil, gasoline, fresh water, jobs, electricity, food, etc)

16. Introduction of foreign diseases.

Here you go...

 

[RKMBrown]

All arguments made against immigration today, were made a century ago towards the Irish, the East European Jews, the Chinese, the Hispanics...(the deportees)....and political parties decried it with the same hollow excuses - higher crime, laziness, disease, lack of assimilation.
Harm
Now, like then, it rang false.

I support immigration...for we are all children of immigrants of one era or another. Why should we close the door just because we have it made?

The US passed its optimum population (30 million) in 1860. With the small exceptions of people bringing rare, high-demand skills, and those binging capital to open businesses and create jobs for AMERICANS, immigration should have ceased then. This includes the time period you're talking about. And I'm not talking about excuses. I'm talking about HARM to America.

Harms of Immigration

1. Americans lose jobs. (especially Whites due to affirmative action).

2. Wage reduction.

3. Tax $ lost (due to off books work + lower wages paid).

4. Remittance $$$ lost. ($170 Billion year).

5. Tax $$ lost to immigrants on welfare.

6. Increased crime.

7. Increased traffic congestion.

8. Increased pollution.

9. Overcrowding in hospital ERs.

10. Overcrowding in recreational facilities.

11. Overcrowding in government offices.

12. Overcrowding in schools.

13. Decrease in funds available for entitlements.

14. Cultural erosion.

15. Overuse of scarce resources (oil, gasoline, fresh water, jobs, electricity, food, etc)

16. Introduction of foreign diseases.

and another...

 

[Zombie_Pundit]

So I'm on vacation a few years back and my parents have judge judy on. There's this guy explaining to the judge the half dozen ways he get's his money to live while remaining at school as an art appreciation major. Guy was a rap singer. Judge admonished him for it.. he was like you guys wanted to give me the money so I take it, ... guy smiles and shrugs showing off his gold caps.


Also for the folks that are not being given free college education and had to take out a loan, if you make sure to get a degree in something that keeps you in welfare, well that's ok cause we'll forgive the loans:

President Obama's Student Loan Forgiveness Program in 2014

Judge Judy... C'mon RKMBrown, that's like forming an opinion on policy based on something you saw on the Jerry Springer show.

Furthermore, "www.forgetstudentloandebt.com" is not a website published by the US Government. Here are the whois stats:
Forgetstudentloandebt.com WHOIS Domain Lookup
Says Panama... so... Somebody in Panama is hosting a webpage for somebody who really doesn't like student loan debt and would like to forget it?

In any case, we're getting off topic. The topic is immigration. I like the idea of granting citizenship to smart enterprising people in STEM fields, and other skilled labor, and inviting them to help us bring about another American Century in this 21st Century.

So you are saying you can't get federal and state aid for studying arts?

Never said such a thing. Seems to me the Pell grant is based on need not major.

So you are saying Obama's loan forgiveness program does not exist?

I cannot possibly determine what you mean by that. If I say "No such a thing exists" will you finally reference a .gov site to the PSLF Program?

Or are you just attacking anecdotal references in general?

I have had a difficult time with all these anecdotes.

You are being disingenuous. First you lie about me stating that we don't need STEM graduates.

Hold your horses there. The accusation of lying is not conducive to the continuation of our discussion. I told no such "lie". If I inadvertently misrepresented your position, maybe it was due to the fact that you speak in hyperbole. I most certainly made no strawman and asked for clarification on any position of yours that I restated, which you would provide in your own fashion. I was trying to reconcile your testimonials with those of persons less hostile.

Now you make up some bullshit attack at one of the millions of links to Obama's loan forgiveness programs that amounts to yet one more way democrat voters are stealing money from taxpayers.

You provided a link to a panamian blog on the subject of what that one guy thinks Obama is doing. You know, there is an actual .gov site.
https://studentaid.ed.gov/repay-loa...tion/charts/public-service#what-is-the-public

 

[Indeependent]

I am sorry you are unemployed.

That you are unemployed and have decided to blame brown people does not give you the right to shout at me. That you are unemployed may be due to the fact that you are over-impressed with your ability to recite a few well known database sever product families (DB2? Really?). I would recommend you diversify your skill set. Problem solving as an ability is not shown through specialization but rather through versatility. During the interview process, I would recommend you speak as little as possible such that you do not reveal your limited ability to engage in a complex conversation; that limit being demonstrated by neither making positive contributions nor providing feedback on the contributions of others that is at least germane let alone constructive. Because I do not know you and your behavior has been less than professional, I cannot give you jobseeking advice that is any more specific.

I wish you success in the future.

I'm employed, not in computers and doing rather well, thank you.

Right, because lumping "database servers" into the catch-all term "computers" is by no means a humorous instance of over-aggregation. Even more humorous is that,albeit from ignorance, this is the first time you've said something germane to the post to which you responded.


Nice attempt to introduce a topic with which you have more familiarity, but the conversation was on STEM.
H-1B visa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Nice! Appealing to both Spite and Fear! Double Points!



I have no reference for "average" nor any basis to gauge you relative to that reference.


Wow. No other possibilities. Right.

It's a good laugh when a jackass judges one's professional demeanor from an anonymous message board.

Actually, your conduct says a lot about you. You specifically say "anonymous message board" and explicitly state that this anonymity changes your behavior. You just said exactly that. Do you lack the courage to say what you mean when not protected by anonymity? Have you come on to the board to troll for lulz because you are protected by anonymity? It's a very telling statement on your part.

Who's the a$$ now?

Wow. Ya got me. Yeah. Okay, you won the internet. You can go now.

Did you know that 95% of the backbone of companies with a transactional web-site is COBOL and DB2 even though Oracle and SQL, C#.NET, VB.NET, C++ and Ruby On Rails (which is actually 99% C++) are pimped via the media as THE desired skill set.

I don't blame the Brown People, I blame MNCs whose CEOs and their hired lobbyists testify before Congress on the "fact" that "Americans don't have the skills" for ANYTHING.

If you are aware of the MNC tactics being used against Americans and you think it's dandy, screw you.
If you aren't aware then you're not nearly as perceptive a your pretend to be.

Try reading the bi=partisan supported S744 and HR2131 (Immigration Reform) that's based upon the "fact" that Americans in Medicine, Accounting, Law, Electrical Engineering, Mechanical Engineering and 7 other specialties "don't have the skill-set".
All of a sudden we need 1.6 million Business Visas a year or America will collapse.

I guess every American with an advanced degree became a retard over night.
At least that what's Bill Gates and Marco Rubio think.

 

[Zombie_Pundit]

Did you know that 95% of the backbone of companies with a transactional web-site is COBOL and DB2 even though Oracle and SQL, C#.NET, VB.NET, C++ and Ruby On Rails (which is actually 99% C++) are pimped via the media as THE desired skill set.

I don't blame the Brown People, I blame MNCs whose CEOs and their hired lobbyists testify before Congress on the "fact" that "Americans don't have the skills" for ANYTHING.

If you are aware of the MNC tactics being used against Americans and you think it's dandy, screw you.
If you aren't aware then you're not nearly as perceptive a your pretend to be.

Try reading the bi=partisan supported S744 and HR2131 (Immigration Reform) that's based upon the "fact" that Americans in Medicine, Accounting, Law, Electrical Engineering, Mechanical Engineering and 7 other specialties "don't have the skill-set".
All of a sudden we need 1.6 million Business Visas a year or America will collapse.

I guess every American with an advanced degree became a retard over night.
At least that what's Bill Gates and Marco Rubio think.

I think we should be careful using definite articles when describing desired skill sets. There are many STEM fields which have nothing to do with transactional websites and could care less about Ruby-on-Rails. That's the problem with over-aggregation.

Summary: H.R.2131 — 113th Congress (2013-2014)

There is one summary for this bill. Bill summaries are authored by CRS.
Shown Here:
Introduced in House (05/23/2013)

Supplying Knowledge-based Immigrants and Lifting Levels of STEM Visas Act or SKILLS Visa Act - Amends the Immigration and Nationality Act to set worldwide employment-based immigration levels at: (1) 140,000 through FY2013, and (2) 235,000 beginning in FY 2014 reduced by the number of returned visas resulting from the elimination of the diversity immigrant program.

Makes up to 55,000 (EB-6) visas, reduced by the number of returned visas resulting from the elimination of the diversity immigrant lottery, available in FY2014 and subsequent fiscal years to qualified immigrants who: (1) have a doctorate degree in a field of science, technology, engineering, or mathematics (STEM degree) from a U.S. doctoral institution of higher education, or have completed a dental, medical, or veterinary residency program, have received a medical degree, a dentistry degree, a veterinary degree, or an osteopathic medicine/osteopathy degree; and (2) have taken all required courses, including courses taken by correspondence or by distance education, while physically present in the United States.​

How many Americans are competing for positions requiring a Doctorate in Physics, Math or Engineering? What is unemployment rate of Americans with a Doctorate in Physics, Math or Engineering? Lastly, after we Americans invest all that time in a foreigner to make that foreigner a Doctor, I think a path to citizenship is in order.

I don't see anyone arguing that there are no American born dentists, MDs or PhDs. I see people arguing that we ought push these talented PhD foreigners, potential immigrants, out the door.

I don't like guest laborer programs. I support paths to citizenship. Providing a path to citizenship for someone who earns a Doctorate right here in the US of A sounds like a policy with many generations of return on the investment.

 

[Unkotare]

U.S. proposes immigration rules to help high-skilled workers | Reuters

 

[Unkotare]

Pittsburgh's economy has gained from high-skilled immigrants - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette


You won't be wringing your hands over how to "retrain" their kids in about ten years.

 

[protectionist]

Pittsburgh's economy has gained from high-skilled immigrants - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

You won't be wringing your hands over how to "retrain" their kids in about ten years.

EARTH TO MELANIE HARRINGTON (CEO of Vibrant Pittsburgh): - immigration doesn't give you "workforce growth". It gives you workforce REPLACEMENT. That is, replacement of Pittsburgh AMERICANS, who spend their money in Pittsburgh, with foreigners who wire most of their wages back to the foreign country they came from (remittances$$), depriving Pittsburgh's retailers of million$$ of $$$ in SALES$$, every year.
$70 Billion/year in sales lost to remittances nationwide. (link already provided, 6 times)

What a dumb post and link. Pheeeeeww!!

 

[protectionist]

Also, you haven't seen my solutions ? That's funny. They were certainly plain and visible enough.

1. Mass deportation of illegal aliens.

2. Pressure upon Mexico, with military action if necessary.

3.. Elimination of legal immigration,including work visas, with 2 exceptions (immigrants bringing in skills high in demand - this would be rare, and immigrants bringing in capital to open business & create jobs FOR AMERICANS)

I've probably stated this in at least 10 different posts in this thread. Just happened to have missed every one of them, huh ?

And you never saw THIS ? >> http://www.usmessageboard.com/usmb-...nvasion-of-the-united-states-1950-2012-a.html

Not sure how you missed my question. How does removing the 10million or so illegals get you to 10% of our population size? Math not your strong suit? I'll give you a hint 310 million people - 10 million people = 300 million people. You want us to get to 30 million. You stated in this thread that we can't sustain more than 30 million people.

I'll ask the question again. How do you propose to get us from 310 million people to 30 million people?

And I'll provide the answer AGAIN. Do you think that I had proposed to do that ? If so, where ? When ?

 

[protectionist]

How do you propose to reduce our population by 90%?

Do you think that I had proposed to do that ? If so, where ? When ?

You did it in this thread when you were claiming to be a geographer. This after you claimed to be an economist.

AGAIN I ask you >> Where ? When ? That means Page # and Post #. I've provided those numerous times when people question me about a previous post. You get held to the same standard. Just saying > "when you were claiming" doesn't cut it.

If you base your statement on something, SHOW IT.

 

[protectionist]

Anyone with the ability to think rationally and the willingness to look beyond the end of their own nose. That does not, it is by now apparent, include you.

The more population we have above 30 Million, the more we increase THESE >>

Harms of Immigration

1. Americans lose jobs. (especially Whites due to affirmative action).

2. Wage reduction.

3. Tax $ lost (due to off books work + lower wages paid).

4. Remittance $$$ lost. ($170 Billion year).

5. Tax $$ lost to immigrants on welfare.

6. Increased crime.

7. Increased traffic congestion.

8. Increased pollution.

9. Overcrowding in hospital ERs.

10. Overcrowding in recreational facilities.

11. Overcrowding in government offices.

12. Overcrowding in schools.

13. Decrease in funds available for entitlements.

14. Cultural erosion.

15. Overuse of scarce resources (oil, gasoline, fresh water, jobs, electricity, food, etc)

16. Introduction of foreign diseases.

Here you go...

Here I go WHAT ? You showing the list of HARMS. So ? And you showed a previous post. So ? What about it ? You got a point dangling in here somewhere. Spit it out, my son. We're anxious to hear from you.

 

[protectionist]

In any case, we're getting off topic. The topic is immigration. I like the idea of granting citizenship to smart enterprising people in STEM fields, and other skilled labor, and inviting them to help us bring about another American Century in this 21st Century.

WHY ? For your convenience, the following list is provided which you may feel free to choose from >>

Examples of immigration's VESTED INTERESTS are: >>>

1. Businesses wanting cheap labor to reduce costs & boost profits.

2. Churches wanting parishoners to fill their empty pews.

3. Unions wanting members to replace their declining memberships.

4. Spanish media NEEDING Spanish-only speakers.

5. Ethnocentrist organizations wanting immigrants to multiply their race, for racist reasons (ex. La Raza- "the race")

6. Democrats seek VOTES (and get them).

7. Terrorists come in to enact terrorism (ex. the 9-11 hijackers came in on visas)

8. Anchor baby parents who become LEGALLY entitled to welfare benefits by having the pregnant woman give birth on the American side of the border. And then help themselves to a lifetime of benefits (more immigrants are receiving welfare benefits than native-born Americans).

9. Mexico - remittances$$$ from the USA are their second largest source of income (second only to their oil exports) Mexico also benefits immensely by dumping their poor people on the US, as we then stupidly pay their poverty bill for them. Other countries also benefit from remittances and poverty dumping.

10. Mexico's Reconquista of the American southwest. I take the Mexican govt at it's word when it says that is exactly its plan.

 

[protectionist]

That was plain, intelligible English.

Let's break down the question. Here is the original question, in full context:
So in your [RKMBrown] experience there is a lack of demand for STEM graduates in this country. [restating the premise because that's what RKMBrown seemed, to me, to be saying, and thus giving RKMBrown a chance to clarify.] Okay. Could there be some over-aggregation whereby apples are compared to oranges, as opposed to accusing anyone of lying [stated because RKMBrown seemed, to me, to state that his testimony was the truth and all else was not truth.] , that could explain a very different testimonial from a different person?

The actual question part of that is in bold.

Could there be some over-aggregation whereby apples are compared to oranges, as opposed to accusing anyone of lying, that could explain a very different testimonial from a different person?

Let's start with "over-aggregation"

ag·gre·ga·tion noun \ˌa-gri-ˈgā-shən\

Definition of AGGREGATION

1
: a group, body, or mass composed of many distinct parts or individuals
2
a : the collecting of units or parts into a mass or whole
b : the condition of being so collected

So, the "over-aggregation of data" is when data is aggregated into a group so coarse as to be vague or just plain inaccurate, hence the apples to oranges comment.

So, if two testimonials on the state of the STEM job market conflict, is someone necessarily lying, or is this concept of "the [ definitive article ] STEM job market" simply over-aggregated. Should that article be so definitive?

Plain enough?

Someone is lying.
Americans are replaced by H1-Bs of inferior status.

Or to state it CLEARLY...
Exactly WHICH skills do Americans not possess?
Be precise...
Database skills, for instance, Oracle? DB2? SQL Server?
Oh, excuse me, we need version 000000000002 and you've only worked with version 000000000001.
What bullshit.

Again...
Exactly WHICH skills do Americans not possess?

I am sorry you are unemployed.

That you are unemployed and have decided to blame brown people does not give you the right to shout at me. That you are unemployed may be due to the fact that you are over-impressed with your ability to recite a few well known database sever product families (DB2? Really?). I would recommend you diversify your skill set. Problem solving as an ability is not shown through specialization but rather through versatility. During the interview process, I would recommend you speak as little as possible such that you do not reveal your limited ability to engage in a complex conversation; that limit being demonstrated by neither making positive contributions nor providing feedback on the contributions of others that is at least germane let alone constructive. Because I do not know you and your behavior has been less than professional, I cannot give you jobseeking advice that is any more specific.

I wish you success in the future.

I would say "nice DODGE", if it wasn't such an obvious one. Now that that's settled, how about you answer his question ? "Exactly WHICH skills do Americans not possess?"

PS - being 50% "brown" myself, as you call it, I don't defer to the race card, so you can forget that tactic (it went out 20 years ago with the OJ Simpson trial anyway)

 

[protectionist]

We're already ruined

Multiculturalism and not being required to assimilate to become Americans

when we have press 1 for English or 2 for Spanish...I'm just surprised it's not the other way around yet, press 1 for Spanish, 2 for English

I just feel sorry for my children, grandchildren, etc

Today's LEGAL immigrants continue to assimilate just fine. It's home-grown leftist busy-bodies who are trying to push segregation and isolation (as the democrat party always has). As for "press 1, press 2," if a private business chooses to cater to a certain customer base that's their choice.

EVERYBODY KNOWS it is primarily the left (Democrats) who are pushing immigration, diversity, multiculturalism, and other such nauseums. Do you ever tire of posting obvious NONSENSE on these pages ? Pheeeeeww!! (high-pitched whistle)

 

[protectionist]

Did you know that 95% of the backbone of companies with a transactional web-site is COBOL and DB2 even though Oracle and SQL, C#.NET, VB.NET, C++ and Ruby On Rails (which is actually 99% C++) are pimped via the media as THE desired skill set.

I don't blame the Brown People, I blame MNCs whose CEOs and their hired lobbyists testify before Congress on the "fact" that "Americans don't have the skills" for ANYTHING.

If you are aware of the MNC tactics being used against Americans and you think it's dandy, screw you.
If you aren't aware then you're not nearly as perceptive a your pretend to be.

Try reading the bi=partisan supported S744 and HR2131 (Immigration Reform) that's based upon the "fact" that Americans in Medicine, Accounting, Law, Electrical Engineering, Mechanical Engineering and 7 other specialties "don't have the skill-set".
All of a sudden we need 1.6 million Business Visas a year or America will collapse.

I guess every American with an advanced degree became a retard over night.
At least that what's Bill Gates and Marco Rubio think.

I think we should be careful using definite articles when describing desired skill sets. There are many STEM fields which have nothing to do with transactional websites and could care less about Ruby-on-Rails. That's the problem with over-aggregation.

Summary: H.R.2131 — 113th Congress (2013-2014)

There is one summary for this bill. Bill summaries are authored by CRS.
Shown Here:
Introduced in House (05/23/2013)

Supplying Knowledge-based Immigrants and Lifting Levels of STEM Visas Act or SKILLS Visa Act - Amends the Immigration and Nationality Act to set worldwide employment-based immigration levels at: (1) 140,000 through FY2013, and (2) 235,000 beginning in FY 2014 reduced by the number of returned visas resulting from the elimination of the diversity immigrant program.

Makes up to 55,000 (EB-6) visas, reduced by the number of returned visas resulting from the elimination of the diversity immigrant lottery, available in FY2014 and subsequent fiscal years to qualified immigrants who: (1) have a doctorate degree in a field of science, technology, engineering, or mathematics (STEM degree) from a U.S. doctoral institution of higher education, or have completed a dental, medical, or veterinary residency program, have received a medical degree, a dentistry degree, a veterinary degree, or an osteopathic medicine/osteopathy degree; and (2) have taken all required courses, including courses taken by correspondence or by distance education, while physically present in the United States.​

How many Americans are competing for positions requiring a Doctorate in Physics, Math or Engineering? What is unemployment rate of Americans with a Doctorate in Physics, Math or Engineering? Lastly, after we Americans invest all that time in a foreigner to make that foreigner a Doctor, I think a path to citizenship is in order.

I don't see anyone arguing that there are no American born dentists, MDs or PhDs. I see people arguing that we ought push these talented PhD foreigners, potential immigrants, out the door.

I don't like guest laborer programs. I support paths to citizenship. Providing a path to citizenship for someone who earns a Doctorate right here in the US of A sounds like a policy with many generations of return on the investment.

Perhaps the question might be why do we HAVE foreigners studying in our (American) universities for doctorate degrees ? What's the need for student visas any more than work visas ? (other than money into the pockets of the universities - another vested interest)

 

[protectionist]

U.S. proposes immigration rules to help high-skilled workers | Reuters

The proposal would, for the first time, allow work permits for the spouses of H-1B workers who have begun the process of applying for a green card through their employers. Currently their spouses can move to the U.S. with them, but are prevented from working.

Senator Jeff Sessions, a Republican from Alabama and opponent of immigration reform, denounced the proposed changes. "Yet again, the administration is acting unilaterally to change immigration law in a way that hurts American workers," he said.

"This will help corporations by further flooding a slack labor market, pulling down wages. It is good news for citizens in other countries who will be hired. But for struggling Americans, it will only reduce wages, lower job opportunities, and make it harder to scrape by."

http://www.usmessageboard.com/showthread.php?p=9186762#post9186762

 

[Unkotare]

"“Once enacted, this proposed rule would empower these spouses to put their own education and skills to work for the country that they and their families now call home,” Secretary of Commerce Penny Pritzker wrote on the White House blog. “These actions promise to unleash more of the extraordinary contributions that immigrants have always made to America’s economy.”"

H-1B Visa: Changes to U.S. Visa Rules Will Benefit Spouses - TIME

 

[Unkotare]

The Rush of Immigrants [ushistory.org]

 

[Freewill]

U.S. proposes immigration rules to help high-skilled workers | Reuters

The proposal would, for the first time, allow work permits for the spouses of H-1B workers who have begun the process of applying for a green card through their employers. Currently their spouses can move to the U.S. with them, but are prevented from working.

Senator Jeff Sessions, a Republican from Alabama and opponent of immigration reform, denounced the proposed changes. "Yet again, the administration is acting unilaterally to change immigration law in a way that hurts American workers," he said.

"This will help corporations by further flooding a slack labor market, pulling down wages. It is good news for citizens in other countries who will be hired. But for struggling Americans, it will only reduce wages, lower job opportunities, and make it harder to scrape by."

Obama Administration Proposes Work Permits for H-1B-Worker Spouses - US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

He is right on. But those of us with an income should not be too worried the low wages should save us money at the store.

How Obama thinks flooding the economy with low educated and low skilled workers and give them all the benefits of citizenship will not hurt the economy only proves he is a ideologue devoid of common sense.

 

[Unkotare]

U.S. proposes immigration rules to help high-skilled workers | Reuters

The proposal would, for the first time, allow work permits for the spouses of H-1B workers who have begun the process of applying for a green card through their employers. Currently their spouses can move to the U.S. with them, but are prevented from working.

Senator Jeff Sessions, a Republican from Alabama and opponent of immigration reform, denounced the proposed changes. "Yet again, the administration is acting unilaterally to change immigration law in a way that hurts American workers," he said.

"This will help corporations by further flooding a slack labor market, pulling down wages. It is good news for citizens in other countries who will be hired. But for struggling Americans, it will only reduce wages, lower job opportunities, and make it harder to scrape by."

Obama Administration Proposes Work Permits for H-1B-Worker Spouses - US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

He is right on. But those of us with an income should not be too worried the low wages should save us money at the store.

How Obama thinks flooding the economy with low educated and low skilled workers and give them all the benefits of citizenship will not hurt the economy only proves he is a ideologue devoid of common sense.

You didn't read the link, did you?