Imagine a world without Muslims

[Pogo]

Imagine a world without Christians or any other religious belief system.

Your life would very likely be measurably more brutal and harsh if that had happened. The Enlightenment is built on a Christian foundation.

No...the Enlightenment was built despite Christianity....in fact, many of the Enlightenment philosophers had to tread lightly in fear of religious repercussions.

True. The Church was the First Estate then, i.e. the power brokers.

 

[Darlene]

Imagine a world without Christians or any other religious belief system.

Your life would very likely be measurably more brutal and harsh if that had happened. The Enlightenment is built on a Christian foundation.

Christians over the past millenium have been guilty of their fair share of atrocities.

So is the issue the past or the present? Do you judge the Christian world of today by the events of the past or the present and same with the Muslim world?

Present day christians are raping children and lying to hide the rapists.

Are you saying that the Bible endorses such behavior?

The bible?

You mean the same bible that is full of murder, rape, incest and more?

THAT bible?

Maybe THAT'S why your viewpoint is always so skewed to the weird.

You seem to be afflicted with short term memory.

Which means you were unable to recall my question.

I'll re-state it here.

Are you saying that the Bible endorses such behavior?

Just like the Qur'an, there are verses that promote peace and there are those that contradict each other. It's the Radicals in any religion that take things to the extreme and give that religion a bad name.

 

[Darlene]

Here are some great comparison charts! They compare the similarities and differences between Christianity and Islam:
Comparison Chart Christianity vs. Islam - ReligionFacts
Comparing and contrasting Christianity and Islam
Islam And Christianity A Comparison
Comparison Chart Islam Judaism and Christianity - ReligionFacts
Difference Between Islam and Christianity Difference Between Islam vs Christianity

 

[Rikurzhen]

Imagine a world without Christians or any other religious belief system.

Your life would very likely be measurably more brutal and harsh if that had happened. The Enlightenment is built on a Christian foundation.

No...the Enlightenment was built despite Christianity....in fact, many of the Enlightenment philosophers had to tread lightly in fear of religious repercussions.

Perhaps I wasn't clear in how I made my point. The Enlightenment is a reaction to an existing order, a Christian order. That order frames the debate and the developments which sprout from the debate. Appeal to reason arises as rejection of appeal to authority.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Here are some great comparison charts! They compare the similarities and differences between Christianity and Islam:
Comparison Chart Christianity vs. Islam - ReligionFacts
Comparing and contrasting Christianity and Islam
Islam And Christianity A Comparison
Comparison Chart Islam Judaism and Christianity - ReligionFacts
Difference Between Islam and Christianity Difference Between Islam vs Christianity

Why don't you form your own opinion by reading the Qur'an and the Hadith.

 

[Darlene]

Here are some great comparison charts! They compare the similarities and differences between Christianity and Islam:
Comparison Chart Christianity vs. Islam - ReligionFacts
Comparing and contrasting Christianity and Islam
Islam And Christianity A Comparison
Comparison Chart Islam Judaism and Christianity - ReligionFacts
Difference Between Islam and Christianity Difference Between Islam vs Christianity

Why don't you form your own opinion by reading the Qur'an and the Hadith.

Have you read it yourself? Is that what has made you so opinionated on this issue? Or was it the Radicals who made you dislike all Muslims?

 

[Rikurzhen]

Here are some great comparison charts! They compare the similarities and differences between Christianity and Islam:
Comparison Chart Christianity vs. Islam - ReligionFacts
Comparing and contrasting Christianity and Islam
Islam And Christianity A Comparison
Comparison Chart Islam Judaism and Christianity - ReligionFacts
Difference Between Islam and Christianity Difference Between Islam vs Christianity

Why don't you form your own opinion by reading the Qur'an and the Hadith.

Have you read it yourself? Is that what has made you so opinionated on this issue? Or was it the Radicals who made you dislike all Muslims?

Yes, and I actually lived in a few countries in the Middle East and North Africa.

 

[Darlene]

Here are some great comparison charts! They compare the similarities and differences between Christianity and Islam:
Comparison Chart Christianity vs. Islam - ReligionFacts
Comparing and contrasting Christianity and Islam
Islam And Christianity A Comparison
Comparison Chart Islam Judaism and Christianity - ReligionFacts
Difference Between Islam and Christianity Difference Between Islam vs Christianity

Why don't you form your own opinion by reading the Qur'an and the Hadith.

Have you read it yourself? Is that what has made you so opinionated on this issue? Or was it the Radicals who made you dislike all Muslims?

Yes, and I actually lived in a few countries in the Middle East and North Africa.

I don't know why I asked because there's no way to tell if you're telling the truth. Anyways, I hope you have a good night. I'm signing off for now. This baby's hungry and I want to read my book.
Goodnight.

 

[Pogo]

Here are some great comparison charts! They compare the similarities and differences between Christianity and Islam:
Comparison Chart Christianity vs. Islam - ReligionFacts
Comparing and contrasting Christianity and Islam
Islam And Christianity A Comparison
Comparison Chart Islam Judaism and Christianity - ReligionFacts
Difference Between Islam and Christianity Difference Between Islam vs Christianity

Why don't you form your own opinion by reading the Qur'an and the Hadith.

Have you read it yourself? Is that what has made you so opinionated on this issue? Or was it the Radicals who made you dislike all Muslims?

Yes, and I actually lived in a few countries in the Middle East and North Africa.

I don't know why I asked because there's no way to tell if you're telling the truth. Anyways, I hope you have a good night. I'm signing off for now. This baby's hungry and I want to read my book.
Goodnight.

He's already a documented liar.

 

[Mojo2]

Also, its not just Christianity that believes in such peaceful mannerisms. There are others:
Peaceful Religions

Buddhism vs Christianity - Difference and Comparison Diffen

Debate Argument Buddhism is better than Christianity Debate.org

Buddhism Is Better For You Than Christianity

I am not Buddhist but I thought these articles were pretty interesting.

Here's something for you, Darlene.

Spoiler: Islam is Incompatible With Democracy

Amir Taheri's remarks during the debate on " Islam Is Incompatible With Democracy"

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I am glad that this debate takes place in English.

Because, were it to be conducted in any of the languages of our part of the world, we would not have possessed the vocabulary needed.

To understand a civilisation it is important to understand its vocabulary.

If it was not on their tongues it is likely that it was not on their minds either.

There was no word in any of the Muslim languages for democracy until the 1890s. Even then the Greek word democracy entered Muslim languages with little change: democrasi in Persian, dimokraytiyah in Arabic, demokratio in Turkish.

Democracy as the proverbial schoolboy would know is based on one fundamental principle: equality.

The Greek word for equal isos is used in more than 200 compound nouns; including isoteos (equality) and Isologia (equal or free speech) and isonomia (equal treatment).

But again we find no equivalent in any of the Muslim languages. The words we have such as barabari in Persian and sawiyah in Arabic mean juxtaposition or levelling.

Nor do we have a word for politics.

The word siassah, now used as a synonym for politics, initially meant whipping stray camels into line.( Sa'es al-kheil is a person who brings back lost camels to the caravan. )The closest translation may be: regimentation.

Nor is there mention of such words as government and the state in the Koran.

It is no accident that early Muslims translated numerous ancient Greek texts but never those related to political matters. The great Avicenna himself translated Aristotle's Poetics. But there was no translation of Aristotle's Politics in Persian until 1963.

Lest us return to the issue of equality.

The idea is unacceptable to Islam.

For the non-believer cannot be the equal of the believer.

Even among the believers only those who subscribe to the three so-called Abrahamic religions: Judaism, Christianity and Islam ( Ahl el-Kitab) are regarded as fully human.

Here is the hierarchy of human worth in Islam:

At the summit are free male Muslims

Next come Muslim male slaves

Then come free Muslim women

Next come Muslim slave women.

Then come free Jewish and /or Christian men

Then come slave Jewish and/or Christian men

Then come slave Jewish and/or Christian women.

Each category has rights that must be respected.

The People of the Book have always been protected and relatively well-treated by Muslim rulers, but often in the context of a form of apartheid known as dhimmitude.

The status of the rest of humanity, those whose faiths are not recognised by Islam or who have no faith at all, has never been spelled out although wherever Muslim rulers faced such communities they often treated them with a certain measure of tolerance and respect ( As in the case of Hindus under the Muslim dynasties of India.)

Non-Muslims can, and have often been, treated with decency, but never as equals.

(There is a hierarchy even for animals and plants. Seven animals and seven plants will assuredly go to heaven while seven others of each will end up in Hell.)

Democracy means the rule of the demos, the common people, or what is now known as popular or national sovereignty.

In Islam, however, power belongs only to God: al-hukm l'illah. The man who exercises that power on earth is known as Khalifat al-Allah, the regent of God.

But even then the Khalifah or Caliph cannot act as legislator. The law has already been spelled out and fixed for ever by God.

The only task that remains is its discovery, interpretation and application.

That, of course, allows for a substantial space in which different styles of rule could develop.

But the bottom line is that no Islamic government can be democratic in the sense of allowing the common people equal shares in legislation.

Islam divides human activities into five categories from the permitted to the sinful, leaving little room for human interpretation, let alone ethical innovations.

What we must understand is that Islam has its own vision of the world and man's place in it.

To say that Islam is incompatible with democracy should not be seen as a disparagement of Islam.

Continued at the link.

Amir Taheri Islam Is Incompatible With Democracy

 

[Darlene]

I accept people of all races and religions. I prefer to be peaceful.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Imagine a world without Christians or any other religious belief system.

Your life would very likely be measurably more brutal and harsh if that had happened. The Enlightenment is built on a Christian foundation.

Christians over the past millenium have been guilty of their fair share of atrocities.

So is the issue the past or the present? Do you judge the Christian world of today by the events of the past or the present and same with the Muslim world?

Present day christians are raping children and lying to hide the rapists.

Are you saying that the Bible endorses such behavior?

The Bible doesn't endorse any behavior that causes harm to our fellow humans. Jesus walked among sinners and people who believed in many different things. Never did he say an unkind word or treat them badly.

A kind word turns away wrath.

A soft answer turneth away wrath. You are mistaken, Darlene. Jesus had plenty of hard words for people. Look at what he has to say to the Pharisees and Saducees.

Bottom line here:

Jesus said if we love Him we will keep his commandments. We will keep them. Not him. He never said he'd keep them for us. He told us to keep them. Joining that interfaithism thing you are advertising in your broken cross sign is a big No! Seriously. There is one way. Not many. One way. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father except through Jesus. This kumbaya thing is for the birds.

 

[Rikurzhen]

I accept people of all races and religions. I prefer to be peaceful.

The problem is when your beliefs and actions are not reciprocated. Ball in your court. Submit or not?

 

[Darlene]

Also, its not just Christianity that believes in such peaceful mannerisms. There are others:
Peaceful Religions

Buddhism vs Christianity - Difference and Comparison Diffen

Debate Argument Buddhism is better than Christianity Debate.org

Buddhism Is Better For You Than Christianity

I am not Buddhist but I thought these articles were pretty interesting.

Here's something for you, Darlene.

Spoiler: Islam is Incompatible With Democracy

Amir Taheri's remarks during the debate on " Islam Is Incompatible With Democracy"

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I am glad that this debate takes place in English.

Because, were it to be conducted in any of the languages of our part of the world, we would not have possessed the vocabulary needed.

To understand a civilisation it is important to understand its vocabulary.

If it was not on their tongues it is likely that it was not on their minds either.

There was no word in any of the Muslim languages for democracy until the 1890s. Even then the Greek word democracy entered Muslim languages with little change: democrasi in Persian, dimokraytiyah in Arabic, demokratio in Turkish.

Democracy as the proverbial schoolboy would know is based on one fundamental principle: equality.

The Greek word for equal isos is used in more than 200 compound nouns; including isoteos (equality) and Isologia (equal or free speech) and isonomia (equal treatment).

But again we find no equivalent in any of the Muslim languages. The words we have such as barabari in Persian and sawiyah in Arabic mean juxtaposition or levelling.

Nor do we have a word for politics.

The word siassah, now used as a synonym for politics, initially meant whipping stray camels into line.( Sa'es al-kheil is a person who brings back lost camels to the caravan. )The closest translation may be: regimentation.

Nor is there mention of such words as government and the state in the Koran.

It is no accident that early Muslims translated numerous ancient Greek texts but never those related to political matters. The great Avicenna himself translated Aristotle's Poetics. But there was no translation of Aristotle's Politics in Persian until 1963.

Lest us return to the issue of equality.

The idea is unacceptable to Islam.

For the non-believer cannot be the equal of the believer.

Even among the believers only those who subscribe to the three so-called Abrahamic religions: Judaism, Christianity and Islam ( Ahl el-Kitab) are regarded as fully human.

Here is the hierarchy of human worth in Islam:

At the summit are free male Muslims

Next come Muslim male slaves

Then come free Muslim women

Next come Muslim slave women.

Then come free Jewish and /or Christian men

Then come slave Jewish and/or Christian men

Then come slave Jewish and/or Christian women.

Each category has rights that must be respected.

The People of the Book have always been protected and relatively well-treated by Muslim rulers, but often in the context of a form of apartheid known as dhimmitude.

The status of the rest of humanity, those whose faiths are not recognised by Islam or who have no faith at all, has never been spelled out although wherever Muslim rulers faced such communities they often treated them with a certain measure of tolerance and respect ( As in the case of Hindus under the Muslim dynasties of India.)

Non-Muslims can, and have often been, treated with decency, but never as equals.

(There is a hierarchy even for animals and plants. Seven animals and seven plants will assuredly go to heaven while seven others of each will end up in Hell.)

Democracy means the rule of the demos, the common people, or what is now known as popular or national sovereignty.

In Islam, however, power belongs only to God: al-hukm l'illah. The man who exercises that power on earth is known as Khalifat al-Allah, the regent of God.

But even then the Khalifah or Caliph cannot act as legislator. The law has already been spelled out and fixed for ever by God.

The only task that remains is its discovery, interpretation and application.

That, of course, allows for a substantial space in which different styles of rule could develop.

But the bottom line is that no Islamic government can be democratic in the sense of allowing the common people equal shares in legislation.

Islam divides human activities into five categories from the permitted to the sinful, leaving little room for human interpretation, let alone ethical innovations.

What we must understand is that Islam has its own vision of the world and man's place in it.

To say that Islam is incompatible with democracy should not be seen as a disparagement of Islam.

Continued at the link.

Amir Taheri Islam Is Incompatible With Democracy

Here's one for you:
Why Democracy Will Never Work Utopian States Loves happy people
Why democracy doesn 8217 t work
10 Reasons Why Democracy Doesn t Work - Listverse
When Democracy Failed The Warnings of History Common Dreams Breaking News Views for the Progressive Community
DEMOCRACY HAS FAILED IN EUROPE AND AMERICA VERITAS PROJECT

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Other people say this:

90% of these are incorrect.

For example, Aristotle wrote in 300 bc that the world was round. Nearly a thousand years before Islam was created. Gallileo was not the western man credited with discovering the world was round... that was Copernicus.

Also many of the discoveries attributed to 'Islam' were actually attributed to Middle Easterners, but way before 600AD, which is before the Prophet Muhammed and the creation of Islam.

Henry the V's castle? Which one? Most of the castles of England (and indeed western Europe were built from 1000 to 1300AD, Britain's most famous castles were built by Edward I. The castle Sant Angelo in Rome was built by the Romans for Emperor Hadrian.

Also, some of Islam's most famous architecture was copied from the Byzantines, in the case of Hadj Sofia, stolen completely.

Irrigation was used by the ancient Egyptians 2000 years before the birth of Christ, so was paper, soap, perfumes, hospitals, music, cosmetics.. etc etc etc.... is this claim being made simply because Egypt is now a Muslim country? In which case this is a lie, because the ancient Egyptians had nothing in common with Islam.

and

Note: The religion Islam was established between 650AD-700AD

CHESS is invented before 6th century BC by indians...... not muslims

Irrigation is done in India from 9000BC ie, from indus valley civilisation..... so definitely not by muslims

Indian temples and Roman bridges, which show the excellent human engineering techniques were build before the berth of Jesus Chirst. So architecture is not invented by muslims

The first university inthe world is established by Indians at Takshashila during 700bc.... so university is not invented by muslims

The first plastic surgery was carried out by Sushrutha, an Indian....... not a muslim

Bathing is invented by muslims?? Are u kidding me? First human beings Adam and Eve also took bath. They are not muslims. So bathing is not invented by Muslims. Heard about the Great Bath in indus valley civilisation?

Rest of the inventions are done by Europeans who are Christians

And your point is what? That you do not like Muslims and want to imagine a world without them? Not quite understanding your message here. What are you saying?

 

[Darlene]

Imagine a world without Christians or any other religious belief system.

Your life would very likely be measurably more brutal and harsh if that had happened. The Enlightenment is built on a Christian foundation.

Christians over the past millenium have been guilty of their fair share of atrocities.

So is the issue the past or the present? Do you judge the Christian world of today by the events of the past or the present and same with the Muslim world?

Present day christians are raping children and lying to hide the rapists.

Are you saying that the Bible endorses such behavior?

The Bible doesn't endorse any behavior that causes harm to our fellow humans. Jesus walked among sinners and people who believed in many different things. Never did he say an unkind word or treat them badly.

A kind word turns away wrath.

A soft answer turneth away wrath. You are mistaken, Darlene. Jesus had plenty of hard words for people. Look at what he has to say to the Pharisees and Saducees.

Bottom line here:

Jesus said if we love Him we will keep his commandments. We will keep them. Not him. He never said he'd keep them for us. He told us to keep them. Joining that interfaithism thing you are advertising in your broken cross sign is a big No! Seriously. There is one way. Not many. One way. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father except through Jesus. This kumbaya thing is for the birds.

What you just stated aren't direct quotes from Jesus himself.

 

[Mojo2]

the[so called] fanatics run the show , the [so called] fanatics have the power and the swords , knives , guns and the [so called] Moderates go along to get along so they aren't beheaded !!.

All of that is true, to my understanding.

But mankind has not yet determined a test to tell which Moderate Muslim will suddenly become radicalized. How this would come about. When does it happen? How can we tell who is and who isn't radicalized?

It's the same problem we'd have if we suddenly exported a thousand villagers from Ebola plagued West Africa.

Who has Ebola? Who doesn't have Ebola/

We can't tell at a glance.

So what to do?

With Muslims we KNOW that when their populations grow to a certain size terrorists and violence and civil unrest just magically happens.

The answer?

Limit the % of Muslims in America to no more than 2% of our total population to avoid the predictable problems that come from Muslims in a non-Muslim society.

 

[pismoe]

similar to ww2 and the Nazi's that were supposedly the Minority yet this socalled minority of Nazi's had the whole population of Germany dancing the Nazi tune MOJO . If they didn't dance correctly the Nazi's killed or imprisoned them .

 

[Pogo]

the[so called] fanatics run the show , the [so called] fanatics have the power and the swords , knives , guns and the [so called] Moderates go along to get along so they aren't beheaded !!.

All of that is true, to my understanding.

But mankind has not yet determined a test to tell which Moderate Muslim will suddenly become radicalized. How this would come about. When does it happen? How can we tell who is and who isn't radicalized?

It's the same problem we'd have if we suddenly exported a thousand villagers from Ebola plagued West Africa.

Who has Ebola? Who doesn't have Ebola/

We can't tell at a glance.

So what to do?

With Muslims we KNOW that when their populations grow to a certain size terrorists and violence and civil unrest just magically happens.

The answer?

Limit the % of Muslims in America to no more than 2% of our total population to avoid the predictable problems that come from Muslims in a non-Muslim society.

Umm... no, we know no such thing. We do know that demagogues like yourself can pretend political radicals act on religious bases and then use that hopelessly broad brush as a pretext to go full Rambo-bigot. As you just demonstrated.

Sorry, this is in the same bag with pretending female genital mutilation and 'honor killings' are sourced from Islam, even though they're not, just to create a bogeyman out of an entire religion and start the next "holy war".

This bullshit is old and tired, has been perpetrated for millennia by those incapable of learning from history, and it never fails to feed more destruction.

 

[Mojo2]

Imagine a world without Christians or any other religious belief system.

Your life would very likely be measurably more brutal and harsh if that had happened. The Enlightenment is built on a Christian foundation.

Christians over the past millenium have been guilty of their fair share of atrocities.

So is the issue the past or the present? Do you judge the Christian world of today by the events of the past or the present and same with the Muslim world?

Present day christians are raping children and lying to hide the rapists.

Are you saying that the Bible endorses such behavior?

The bible?

You mean the same bible that is full of murder, rape, incest and more?

THAT bible?

Maybe THAT'S why your viewpoint is always so skewed to the weird.

You seem to be afflicted with short term memory.

Which means you were unable to recall my question.

I'll re-state it here.

Are you saying that the Bible endorses such behavior?

Just like the Qur'an, there are verses that promote peace and there are those that contradict each other. It's the Radicals in any religion that take things to the extreme and give that religion a bad name.

I don't care.

All I care about is that there are 300,000,000 of those wrong thinking bastards who want to achieve a global caliphate and they are doing everything they can, both peaceful and violent, to conquer the USA and the World and make us all capitulate, convert to Islam or die.

The nice, loving, peaceful Muslims who want nothing more than to live their lives happily and peacefully with their families are doing nothing to stop the radicals. They are irrelevant to the evil being committed by their brethren. They are even being victimized by the radicals.

But we know that terrorists get encouragement and succor and are hidden when necessary, among fellow Muslims. Moderates all.

So, if terrorists live and get support and hide among moderates why not limit the % of ALL Muslims allowed to come here?

Is 1% or 2% a better figure to establish as the limit?