I'm still unclear as to why Putin started their idiotic war with Ukraine. Can you explain it to me?

[José]

The only politician who left power with the same enormous level of sadness, frustration, shame and embarrassment as Gorbachev was probably Colin Powell.

The sad, melancholic end of career of Gorbachev and Powell brings me a lot of sorrow because, politics aside, they were both good natured human beings.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Over the years Gorbachev made conflicting remarks about NATO expansion.



Ukraine: the history behind Russia's claim that Nato promised not to expand to the east

Gorbachev's conflicting, contradictory remarks can only be explained by the fact that he was tremendously ashamed of having left power without a written agreement forbbiding western military expansionism towards Russia's borders and was trying to save what still remained of his reputation in the eyes of the russian people.

There is no contradiction there. Gorbachev said clearly there was no discussion about allowing the eastern European nations join NATO and no promise to that effect, but he didn't like it.

Your fantasies about Gorbachev being ashamed aside, at least now you are no longer touting a phantom agreement about allowing eastern European nations join NATO.

 

[Kruska]

To forward that there were no discussions between the then Soviet-Union and NATO regarding - taking advantage of Russia's weakness, is ridiculous.

The main center of discussions/demands from the SU in regards to approving the German reunification - were towards allowing for the reunited Germany to remain a NATO member and to allow for the stationing of NATO troops onto the territory of former East-Germany.
Germany paid loads of money and political favors to obtain that concession from Gorbachev. If therefore Gorbi wouldn't not have objected towards former Soviet satellite states joining the NATO alliance - then why talk about several conditions towards Germany to obtain exactly that right?
There were numerous discussions in 1990 - 1991 including the 2plus4 discussions - with the Bush administration stating - not one step eastwards.

What changed all this later-on, was primarily the interests of the EU - and those of the former Warsaw-pact states to become EU members - anticipating to become rich overnight due to billions of subsidies flowing in from the EU. The EU's mentality is like that of a bank - no securities no money.
In order to safeguard their investments - a political stable, Western-minded and therefore Western controlled government is the primary requirement. Just by pumping money into a country - the EU can't guarantee/enforce for a former communist, and now extreme capitalist minded society - controlled via mafia's, oligarchs and totally corrupt government administrations to meet/match the demands of an "enhanced democratic EU".
The institution NATO can additionally guarantee for a stable political environment - that will take influence in regards to meeting EU - economic and political standards.

Logically NATO and the EU moved in jointly - into these former Warsaw-Pact countries.

The same applied towards Russia itself - everyone in the West was happy and content with the SU's breakdown - (it will take them decades to get back on their feet) until a government coup was staged in Moscow - with Boris climbing onto a tank, It was then that the West realized that a hardliner faction consisting of ultra-communist and nationalist might take power - due to the economic issues that had caused havoc in Russia. This is when the EU and NATO decide to expand further eastwards - beyond Poland - offering a desolate Russia an outlook towards an EU and NATO membership - like dangling a piece of cheese in front of a half starved mouse.

Putin and those nationalist Russian sympathizers - have never forgotten this. Neither did obviously French president Macron or Germany's Scholz - via continuing to state that crushing Russia's economy and self-esteem via sanctions and war - will eventually backfire.

Since 2000 a Putin came to power and started to revive the Russian economy. That a stronger or strong economy of a state will automatically lead to further aspirations of a country towards the global community - is understood. The former Russian dog (live of a dog) from 1990 -2000 now wanted back recognition. At least to be an equal partner towards the EU and the USA.

Due to the military involvement/expansion, NATO/USA naturally realized it's strategic advantage towards the new Russia. Just as before during the cold-war Russia again had become more or less a landlocked country - surrounded entirely by the USA and it's military bloc. Only to it's East a friendly China existed - but China was already becoming to powerful as for Russia to take influence onto it.

So Putin aka Russia, set it's focus toward it's Western and South-Western neighbors. Foremost Ukraine and the Caucasus region. The EU/NATO attempt towards Georgia had been stopped successfully - and Ukraine possessed a pro-Russian controlled government. The only thing that could endanger this was a continued EU/NATO drive towards Ukraine and the Caucasus. So Putin made it very clear that according to his conviction - NATO had agreed towards not expanding into the East - he could only pick onto the NATO issue since the EU had never made any promises in that regard.

That according to Putin's interpretation of Russian history (shared by many historians) - an Ukraine has no right to exist as a nation - especially not on the borders instituted by the Soviet-Union was also well known.
So either the existing Ukraine is Russian-controlled or pro-Russian - there is no threat via NATO and the EU will not invest significantly - he will leave it at that, offcourse planing/hoping to rejoin it with Russia sooner or later (not via war but diplomatic tools). Since all three NATO, EU and Ukraine continued towards being free from Russia - right to a western inspired/supported government change - the status quo between Russia and Ukraine came to an abrupt end.

Putin tried diplomatic tools - e.g. Crimea was a present, to which Nikita was not entitled - the Donbas and Luhansk is populated (in majority?) by Russians, same goes for Crimea.
According to Putin, separatist movement's were quelled via brutal Ukraine military actions - all or mostly via NAZI brigades aka Azov Brigade, etc.

Well all these diplomatic tools didn't work out for Putin, NATO/EU and Ukraine were confident that everything will work out as planed - so Putin took a gamble, lets attack Ukraine - plans for a government take over are in place - then this government takeover didn't happen - the comedian started to play stubborn having been assured assistance by NATO and the EU. I think that's all there is to it.

 

[Ringo]

 

[Litwin]

why is Putin doing this?

'The Ukraine war is as neo-colonial as it gets'​

 

[zaangalewa]

I'm still unclear as to why Putin started their idiotic war with Ukraine. Can you explain it to me?​

I guess this all has to do with a Slawic mysticism which is not really understandable.




Specially many Russiasn seem not to see any differnce betwenen the area of the former Soviet Union - which they had destroyed on their own - and Russia as a country. They seem to like to "reconquer" - by self-defining a totally wrong history - every country where Slaws once lived - but they call also many people Slaws who never had been Slaws - for example the inhabitants of Austria.

Here folweowsa a video about what Otto von Bismark (a democrat of the European Parliament but also somehow "the last emperor" of the Holy empire and the Austrain empire) said about Putin in 2003 and 2005 when he was more than 90 years old. It is in German. Perhaps you are able to find an English translation. He warsn that a war is easily able to come (in 2003/2005!!! he warned) and his opinion about the person and personality of Putin shows his partially very disastrous character.

 

[zaangalewa]

Sorry: I wrote 'Otto von Bismarck' - what's a totally stupid nonsense. His name is Otto von Habsburg. I call him "the last emperor" of the Holy Roman Empire and the Austrian-Hungarian empire - although he always had been been a democrat - but he had been the last man who was educated to be able to be an emperor.

 

[zaangalewa]

It's hard to say. He is on mass quantities of prednisone for some sort of cancer or disease. That shit makes people crazy. As for nukes MAD is still in effect. We can only hope the Russian military will refuse to commit national suicide.

They will not - because suicide is lovely compared with to have to speak with the KGB.

 

[zaangalewa]

... the whole argument that the US somehow provoked Putin to invade is based on nothing.

Exactly. No one provoked Putin and his criminal gang only a little to do this stupid, senseless and criminal war which costs the life of so many innocent people now. It was exactly in the opposite. Putin had much to many people in the western world - including me personally - who tried to understand this damned cruel bloody asshole. For him this all is only a nice imperial game of "Mr. greatest Russian of all times." What an unbelievable idiot!

 

[Ringo]

Exactly. No one provoked Putin and his criminal gang

Are you stupid or a scumbag? Or both?

 

[zaangalewa]

So the war is really about Putin's own vision of being a great conqueror. I think he claims to be a Christian. What a joke.

He installed a KGB agent (private propery 4 billion dollar) for to be the patriarch of Moscow. This means the official Christian church in Russia is dead.

 

[zaangalewa]

Are you stupid or a scumbag? Or both?

Says who? A fake-Commie and spitlicker of Putin?

 

[zaangalewa]

There seems no other reasonable explanation for Putin's war.

The problem are the unreasonable explanations which Putin tells Putin. Will Putin believe in Putin? I fear this could happen. And what knows anyone else about? Nothing or nothing? Or exists any other Borg-Queen in the background?

 

[zaangalewa]

Russia and America can't ever meet directly head to head and so your imagined scenario is impossible. It must remain a US proxy war ...

Which proxy war? Who fights for Russia instead of Russia?

 

[Donald H]

Which proxy war? Who fights for Russia instead of Russia?

Most of America's proxy wars has involved the victim country needing to fight for themselves. That is common to this war too, but there are other distinctions that make this war different.

The enemy won't accept defeat.

 

[Ringo]

 

[zaangalewa]

Most of America's proxy wars

West-East proxy wars are wars of political systems against each other. Headline "Communism vs Capitalism" The Commies had conquered more than 50% of the world before the USA reacted in Korea.

has involved the victim country needing to fight for themselves. That is common to this war too,

Nonsense. Russia attacked the Ukraine. Nearly everyone thought the Ukraine will fall within 2 days or latest 2 weeks. But the brave Ukrainians decided not to fall and resisted. They showed an astonishing bravery. What we do now is just simple to give them a fairer chance to be able to resist and to be free. They do not like to be a part of Russia.

but there are other distinctions that make this war different.

The enemy won't accept defeat.

Enemy? ... No idea what you speak about now and whom you like to define to be your enemy and what "to win" or "to lose" means for you in this context. Clear is that only Putin and his criminal gang - and no one else - is fully responsible for this stupid, senseless, criminal ... and also deadly ... war.

 

[zaangalewa]

The totalitarian Hiter-Stalin games ended in 1945. Stalin wan. He's the only man I know who suffered a real paranoia before he died in a blackout because he had murdered millions of his own Russians. No one of his marionettes and spitlickers had the courage to try to help him.

 

[Ringo]

 

[JohnDB]

True, but it CAN be elaborated on considerably. See, Ukraine and Russia are neighbors, just like the U.S. and Mexico or Canada are....except their neighborhood is across the globe from us. Like them, we have trade happening with our close neighbors. We have influence them, they influence us. There's codependence between us in various areas of the market. Also most Americans are familiar with the cultures of Mexico and Canada and their languages and vice versa and folks from the US Canada and Mexico are going back and forth between these three countries all the time. For this reason we want to keep Canada and Mexico on a friendly basis with us. Now, imagine if suddenly a foreign power with military industrial interests suddenly started tweaking and manipulating the the governments of our neighbors against us, in their own interest. We have generally good relations with these close neighbors of ours. A foreign power turning these neighbors of ours against us and actually supplying them with arms would have very serious implications for us, ones that we would be fools to ignore.

This is the situation in Ukraine. In 2014, the CIA under Obama did exactly that: They manipulated and tweaked the Ukrainian government to start allowing us to expand our sphere of influence right into Russia's backyard and to send weapons and armaments there to secure our interest. After Biden was elected, the Russian government finally made its move to evict the imposters from Ukraine and make Ukraine Russia-friendly again. Now Biden (formerly worked with Obama and still operates under the same political platform) Biden continues providing Ukraine with weapons in order to protect that illegally gained sphere of influence! Russia is not trying to destroy Ukraine. Russia is trying to evict imposters that don't belong there... Along with weapons, armaments and Western business interests that don't belong there either.

Yes it's about sphere of influence....but the facts and details of who actually threw the first punch is being spun by the West to cover the tracks of the American Democrats and what they did in Ukraine in 2014.

Actually just the reverse....Putin installed puppets in their government. He also has been sending rabble rousers to perform ANTIFA style demonstrations to destabilize the government and install more puppets in the Government. A very clear case of this has been witnessed and admitted to by Putin.

In fact Putin had to negotiate to get one of his best friends back from Ukraine when they caught him red handed. (Of course they stripped him of his wealth that he stole from people)

This has been an ongoing issue of Russian tactics for Crimea and the Donbas region in Ukraine.

Russia has been underpaying for Ukrainian goods but charging 3x the going rates for goods theyvwere only allowed to buy from Russia.....of course Ukraine saw better financial deals with the West instead of the East. Since most of their corruption and dissidents were coming from Russia the animosity was of course growing.