I'm still unclear as to why Putin started their idiotic war with Ukraine. Can you explain it to me?

[JWBooth]

So the war is really about Putin's own vision of being a great conqueror. I think he claims to be a Christian. What a joke.

The accusation is specious nonsense.

 

[evenflow1969]

I know the war is hugely unpopular in Russia. I've seen young men in the street saying that they don't want to die for Putin. The war has been an obvious FAILURE for Russia on many levels. My greatest fear is that, in an act of despair and vengeance, Putin uses nukes against Kyiv or even American cities. I'm no expert on the military details of the conflict but it's apparent to me from afar that the Russian soldiers don't believe in the war and that might explain why their military has struggled so mightily. So, again, why is Putin doing this?

Defense corridors and rare earth materials.

 

[K9Buck]

We can only hope the Russian military will refuse to commit national suicide.

We can hope. I doubt that sane Russians would go along with it but I suppose anything is possible and a nuclear exchange is not out of the question.

 

[Rambunctious]

I believe China coaxed Putin into it by saying they would support Russia as Biden displayed weakness in Afghanistan and now China is playing Biden and coaxing him into helping Ukraine more.....
Xi would love to see his two main global nuclear concerns battling each other....

 

[K9Buck]

The accusation is specious nonsense.

There seems no other reasonable explanation for Putin's war.

 

[K9Buck]

Defense corridors and rare earth materials.

Which minerals, please?

 

[JWBooth]

There seems no other reasonable explanation for Putin's war.

Only in the Rachael Maddow universe

 

[Donald H]

Of course it's Ukraine fighting Russia. If it we the US the Russian military in Ukraine would have been destroyed in the first weeks of the war.

Russia and America can't ever meet directly head to head and so your imagined scenario is impossible. It must remain a US proxy war instead of a nuclear war.

What's more, the relative strength of America compared to Russia in a conventional war, needs to take into account one side or the other being bolstered by China's huge military capability?

Praise the lord and pass the ammunition!

 

[fncceo]

Do you support Putin?

No.

And I don't support Zelenskyy either.

Why should we, as Americans, give a fetid dingo's kidney about what these former member states choose to fight over their issues?

We would have wanted Russia to come in on the side of The Confederation during our civil war?

 

[evenflow1969]

Which minerals, please?

Cobalt, titanium, palladium, and Lithium are the main ones also Ukraine is the bread basket of the area. Look into Russian defense corridors also. You will understand that Russia will not stop with Ukraine.

 

[K9Buck]

Only in the Rachael Maddow universe

Perhaps. As I said in my OP, I don't understand it.

 

[K9Buck]

Cobalt, titanium, palladium, and Lithium are the main ones also Ukraine is the bread basket of the area. Look into Russian defense corridors also. You will understand that Russia will not stop with Ukraine.

Hmmm. Thanks.

 

[K9Buck]

Why should we, as Americans, give a fetid dingo's kidney about what these former member states choose to fight over their issues?

Because foreign wars further enrich our masters in Washington and we must serve them.

 

[ESay]

True, but it CAN be elaborated on considerably. See, Ukraine and Russia are neighbors, just like the U.S. and Mexico or Canada are....except their neighborhood is across the globe from us. Like them, we have trade happening with our close neighbors. We have influence them, they influence us. There's codependence between us in various areas of the market. Also most Americans are familiar with the cultures of Mexico and Canada and their languages and vice versa and folks from the US Canada and Mexico are going back and forth between these three countries all the time. For this reason we want to keep Canada and Mexico on a friendly basis with us. Now, imagine if suddenly a foreign power with military industrial interests suddenly started tweaking and manipulating the the governments of our neighbors against us, in their own interest. We have generally good relations with these close neighbors of ours. A foreign power turning these neighbors of ours against us and actually supplying them with arms would have very serious implications for us, ones that we would be fools to ignore.

This is the situation in Ukraine. In 2014, the CIA under Obama did exactly that: They manipulated and tweaked the Ukrainian government to start allowing us to expand our sphere of influence right into Russia's backyard and to send weapons and armaments there to secure our interest. After Biden was elected, the Russian government finally made its move to evict the imposters from Ukraine and make Ukraine Russia-friendly again. Now Biden (formerly worked with Obama and still operates under the same political platform) Biden continues providing Ukraine with weapons in order to protect that illegally gained sphere of influence! Russia is not trying to destroy Ukraine. Russia is trying to evict imposters that don't belong there... Along with weapons, armaments and Western business interests that don't belong there either.

Yes it's about sphere of influence....but the facts and details of who actually threw the first punch is being spun by the West to cover the tracks of the American Democrats and what they did in Ukraine in 2014.

Yes, the US would have reacted in this case, without a doubt. The only main difference here is that both Canada and Mexico see the US as a an important trading power, a source of investment and technology and so on. And they don't seek any military alliance with anyone, because they don't feel a threat out of the US.

The situation in East Europe is completely different. The countries there remember Russia/Soviet rule and they are not too keen to repeat that. In other words, Russia for them is a threat and an undesirable neighbour, and naturally they seek protection from it.

About Ukraine in particular. Yes, in 2014 there was a violent government change there. A coup, if you want. And the US supported that. What can I say? It is maybe known for you that Ukraine was divided politically on two main parts - pro-Western and pro- Russia ones. At that time I thought that 'a national divorce' wasn't that bad idea.

 

[occupied]

We can hope. I doubt that sane Russians would go along with it but I suppose anything is possible and a nuclear exchange is not out of the question.

Not worried too much. There's no road back to normal relations after using nuclear weapons. Best case scenario is that Russia would be a pariah long after Putin is dead.

 

[fncceo]

There's no road back to normal relations after using nuclear weapons.

 

[johngaltshrugged]

Putin clains that NATO promised not to allow eastern European countries to join NATO, but Gorbachev said that is not true.

“The topic of ‘NATO expansion’ was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. … Another issue we brought up was discussed: making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR after German reunification. Baker’s statement was made in that context… Everything that could have been and needed to be done to solidify that political obligation was done. And fulfilled.”

Did NATO Promise Not to Enlarge? Gorbachev Says "No"

Russian President Vladimir Putin has made it well known his antipathy towards NATO, claiming the Alliance took advantage of Russian weakness after the collapse of the Soviet Union in violation of promises allegedly made to Moscow by Western leaders. Steven Pifer argues that no such promises were...

www.brookings.edu

Clearly there is no rational basis for claiming the US or NATO instigated the war.

Maybe Russia shouldn't have trusted the US & NATO enough to take them at their word but it doesn't change the fact that it is on record that these promises were made.
It's always better to get it in writing but your word is your bond & your honor.
We have proven to Russia we have no honor & we instigated this either through incompetence or more nefarious purposes

According to an article in Der Spiegel, a newly discover documented dated March 1991 shows that discussions between the West and Russia made it clear that NATO would not expand past East Germany an agreement that it appears to have reneged on.
The military standoff between the Ukraine and Russia stems from the latter’s demands for NATO to curb its expansion in to Eastern Europe, in what it sees as a threat to its security.
The key text in the minutes from the meeting quotes US Assistant Secretary of State for Europe and Canada Raymond Seitz saying: “We made it clear to the Soviet Union, in the 2+4 talks, as well as in other negotiations that we do not intend to benefit from the withdrawal of Soviet troops from Eastern Europe,”
“NATO should not expand to the east, either officially or unofficially.”
A British representative also mentions the existence of a “general agreement” that membership of NATO for eastern European countries is “unacceptable.”
West German diplomat Juergen Hrobog said of the 1991 agreement: “We had made it clear during the 2+4 negotiations that we would not extend NATO beyond the Elbe. We could not therefore offer Poland and others membership in NATO.”

Has NATO reneged on a 1991 agreement with Russia

According to an article in Der Spiegel, a newly discover documented dated March 1991 shows that discussions between the West and Russia made it clear that NATO would not expand past East Germany an…

euroweeklynews.com

https://www.npr.org/2022/01/29/1076193616/ukraine-russia-nato-explainer

NATO broke its "promise" not to expand but there must be no war, says Medvedev

US and NATO responses fail to address Russia's main concerns, says Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov. Follow the latest news here.

www.cnn.com

Op-Ed: Russia's got a point: The U.S. broke a NATO promise

Moscow solidified its hold on Crimea in April, outlawing the Tatar legislature that had opposed Russia’s annexation of the region since 2014.

www.latimes.com

 

[Synthaholic]

I know the war is hugely unpopular in Russia. I've seen young men in the street saying that they don't want to die for Putin. The war has been an obvious FAILURE for Russia on many levels. My greatest fear is that, in an act of despair and vengeance, Putin uses nukes against Kyiv or even American cities. I'm no expert on the military details of the conflict but it's apparent to me from afar that the Russian soldiers don't believe in the war and that might explain why their military has struggled so mightily. So, again, why is Putin doing this?

Putin is still harboring a Soviet mindset, and has longed for a return of the USSR empire, with all their former states and satellites under Kremlin influence and control. He also does not like having a buffer between Russia and Poland, where he can't undermine them and other NATO/EU countries. On top of that is a real fear of having NATO/EU on his doorstep. NATO, because of fears of surveillance and an enforced border, and the EU, because he doesn't want his citizens seeing a much better life right next door.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Maybe Russia shouldn't have trusted the US & NATO enough to take them at their word but it doesn't change the fact that it is on record that these promises were made.
It's always better to get it in writing but your word is your bond & your honor.
We have proven to Russia we have no honor & we instigated this either through incompetence or more nefarious purposes

According to an article in Der Spiegel, a newly discover documented dated March 1991 shows that discussions between the West and Russia made it clear that NATO would not expand past East Germany an agreement that it appears to have reneged on.
The military standoff between the Ukraine and Russia stems from the latter’s demands for NATO to curb its expansion in to Eastern Europe, in what it sees as a threat to its security.
The key text in the minutes from the meeting quotes US Assistant Secretary of State for Europe and Canada Raymond Seitz saying: “We made it clear to the Soviet Union, in the 2+4 talks, as well as in other negotiations that we do not intend to benefit from the withdrawal of Soviet troops from Eastern Europe,”
“NATO should not expand to the east, either officially or unofficially.”
A British representative also mentions the existence of a “general agreement” that membership of NATO for eastern European countries is “unacceptable.”
West German diplomat Juergen Hrobog said of the 1991 agreement: “We had made it clear during the 2+4 negotiations that we would not extend NATO beyond the Elbe. We could not therefore offer Poland and others membership in NATO.”

Has NATO reneged on a 1991 agreement with Russia

According to an article in Der Spiegel, a newly discover documented dated March 1991 shows that discussions between the West and Russia made it clear that NATO would not expand past East Germany an…

euroweeklynews.com

https://www.npr.org/2022/01/29/1076193616/ukraine-russia-nato-explainer

NATO broke its "promise" not to expand but there must be no war, says Medvedev

US and NATO responses fail to address Russia's main concerns, says Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov. Follow the latest news here.

www.cnn.com

Op-Ed: Russia's got a point: The U.S. broke a NATO promise

Moscow solidified its hold on Crimea in April, outlawing the Tatar legislature that had opposed Russia’s annexation of the region since 2014.

www.latimes.com

Once again, according to Gorbachev there was no discussion and no agreement about allowing eastern European countries to join NATO. Your references are to the separate agreement about East Germany, and Gorbachev states clearly that NATO abided by that agreement.

“The topic of ‘NATO expansion’ was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. … Another issue we brought up was discussed: making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR after German reunification. Baker’s statement was made in that context… Everything that could have been and needed to be done to solidify that political obligation was done. And fulfilled.”

Gorbachev continued that “The agreement on a final settlement with Germany said that no new military structures would be created in the eastern part of the country; no additional troops would be deployed; no weapons of mass destruction would be placed there. It has been obeyed all these years.”

Did NATO Promise Not to Enlarge? Gorbachev Says "No"

Russian President Vladimir Putin has made it well known his antipathy towards NATO, claiming the Alliance took advantage of Russian weakness after the collapse of the Soviet Union in violation of promises allegedly made to Moscow by Western leaders. Steven Pifer argues that no such promises were...

www.brookings.edu

These are Gorbachev's words in 2014. Clearly there is no rational basis for claiming there ever was an agreement not to allow eastern European countries to join NATO.

 

[José]

Over the years Gorbachev made conflicting remarks about NATO expansion.

There was, he said, no promise not to enlarge the alliance, though in the same interview Gorbachev also stated that he thinks that enlargement was a “big mistake” and “a violation of the spirit of the statements and assurances made” in 1990.

Ukraine: the history behind Russia's claim that Nato promised not to expand to the east

Gorbachev's conflicting, contradictory remarks can only be explained by the fact that he was tremendously ashamed of having left power without a written agreement forbidding western military expansionism towards Russia's borders and was trying to save what still remained of his reputation in the eyes of the russian people.