If You Need Help, Take It, And If You Can Give Help, Give It

[TakeAStepBack]

How many of you agree with that sentiment?

How many disagree?

Why/why not?

I think I might agree with it if it said something like this:

If you need help don't be afraid to ask for it, and if you can help, please do, but you won't be required to.

The way it's worded above it sounds as if one needs something they can take it, and if one can help they are obligated to help.

This.

 

[Katzndogz]

To each according to his need. From each according to his ability.

Right of out of the Marx playbook.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

How many of you agree with that sentiment?

How many disagree?

Why/why not?

The sentiment is nice but it will never happen.

This country has more takers than givers. More people are on welfare than ever before and most blacks believing they are owed something. These people are not givers.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

To each according to his need. From each according to his ability.

Right of out of the Marx playbook.

That is the core teaching of Liberation Theology. It's how Communism infiltrated the Churches.

 

[Darkwind]

How many of you agree with that sentiment?

How many disagree?

Why/why not?

Provide all possible definitions of help, their appropriate context, and where possible, where help has only one channel.

 

[dblack]

There is not a single human being on earth who is a self made person.

WE all got help, we are all getting help and we will all continue to need help until WE DIE.

I know that's difficult for Libertarians to accept as true, but such is life, eh?

That's not been my experience (with libertarians). I think we get a skewed view in message board debates of libertarians, and pretty much everyone else I suppose, because of the different corners we push each other into. Libertarians often let state welfare advocates frame the debate as a choice between compassion for your fellow man and the 'virtue of selfishness', which is really unfortunate. Because most of us aren't making this choice. And we're not arguing against altruism. We're simply rejecting the idea that coercive government is the proper delivery mechanism.

 

[depotoo]

How many of you agree with that sentiment?

How many disagree?

Why/why not?

I think I might agree with it if it said something like this:

If you need help don't be afraid to ask for it, and if you can help, please do, but you won't be required to.

The way it's worded above it sounds as if one needs something they can take it, and if one can help they are obligated to help.

I agree that the word "take" does seem a bit forceful, but that wasn't the intention, perhaps the word "get" or even "accept" would be better." As for the latter part, well yes, it is a suggested way of life.

Also, a principle of Christianity...for those of us who are so inclined.

And as a Christian I have seen nowhere within the bible that says to shirk our responsibilities to the government, but for we, ourselves to engage with those in need. By saying "let our taxes do the work for us to help those in need" removes us from knowing what that persons very plight is and how we might come to know other ways in which we can help. It is so much easier to let someone else (or govt. body) do what we ourselves should be ordained to do.

 

[Spiderman]

How many of you agree with that sentiment?

How many disagree?

Why/why not?

It should be

If you need help accept it (not "take it")

If asked for help give it.

There is nothing more annoying than people who think they have to help you before you ask.

 

[healthmyths]

How many of you agree with that sentiment?

How many disagree?

Why/why not?

How about something that may take precedence?
"Do unto others as you would have others do unto you".
What frustrates me is people identify that as "religious" characteristic... when it is a very practical usable adage in every day life.

An illustration...
Why do most people drive the speed limit in a school zone..
1) Because it is the law
2) Because they don't want to be caught
3) Because it makes sense.

The way the golden rule links with driving the speed limit is why would you risk your neighbor's kid's life driving over the limit because you
wouldn't want to put your kid's life at risk... That's how the Golden Rule is applied practically.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Meet Bella Dodd, a woman who became one of the most powerful figures of the American Communist Party in it's early years. This is her story:


The year 1953 saw Bella called up by a Congressional committee investigating the infiltration of Communists in the high places of the United States government. Her newfound faith strengthened her to face this ordeal with courage and determination. She swore before the Senate Internal Security subcommittee that there were a number of Communists in legislative offices in Congress and in a number of groups advising the President of the United States. She also testified to the Communist takeover of labor unions in the country and of her personal experience securing posts for members of the Party in the unions.

Perhaps most frightening of all was her testimony that during her time in the Party, “more than eleven hundred men had been put into the priesthood to destroy the Church from within,” the idea here being that these men would be ordained to the priesthood and progress to positions of influence and authority as monsignors and even bishops. She stated that “right now they are in the highest places in the Church” where they were working to weaken the Church’s effectiveness against Communism. These changes, she declared, would be so drastic that “you will not recognize the Catholic Church.” A few years later, in a conversation with a new Catholic friend, Alice von Hildebrand, Bella told her that there are four cardinals within the Vatican “who are working for the Communists.” This was twelve years before Vatican II. The reader can draw his own conclusions.

Shortly after her conversion, Bella had great hope for the youth of America. She saw goodness and a giving, missionary spirit in the young Catholics she worked with. Bella died in 1964 at the age of sixty.

Bella Dodd did much harm to her country and her Church. It is a great blessing that she repented of those sins. Continue reading on link below....

_____________________________________________

Bella Dodd is a key figure in understanding how communism infiltrated the Roman Catholic Church and created an epidemic of sexual abuse / molestation upon generations of altar boys, Catholic school boys and girls, children who attended their afterschool programs, etc. She is the key figure in understanding how Communists sought out community organizers with high skills such as her abilities had proven... She is a key figure in understanding how the communists infiltrated the Unions, our Government and in this case? Our churches and the doctrines of our churches! The altering of the Gospel to a false one of Marxism by some Catholic priests was not a random event. They became Priests in order to infiltrate the church. These men and women serve Satan. Not God!!! It is a plan unfolding that is decades old.

Today the Communists have infiltrated the mega evangelical churches - these pastors are communists - they live like Kings while their congregations live like paupers. Its the religion of Communism ( Liberation theology is Marxism ) and they like it that way. I wouldn't give a single one of them a nickel but millions will tune in on Sunday and send them their last dollar. Be led by the Holy Spirit about what you give to, People. Not everything is of God. Don't fund communism in the church. Buy your elderly neighor on a fixed income some groceries instead. Pay their electric bill. Then you'll know you're giving to God.

Bella Dodd ? From Communist to Catholic | Catholicism.org

Bella Dodd's story makes perfect sense. It explains perfectly where the Church is today and where America is today. It also explains why so many children were molested within the Roman Catholic church while those in higher authority moved the paedophile priests to other Parrish locations to start over again. Communism is like an organized crime family - a Mafia that operates behind a front organization - in this case - the RCC. The RCC is not alone - many evangelical churches - non-denominational churches have fallen victim and have been infiltrated today. It's good to bring this out in the open when the opportunity presents itself. The truth is what sets us free. - Jeremiah

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

How many of you agree with that sentiment?

How many disagree?

Why/why not?

How about something that may take precedence?
"Do unto others as you would have others do unto you".
What frustrates me is people identify that as "religious" characteristic... when it is a very practical usable adage in every day life.

An illustration...
Why do most people drive the speed limit in a school zone..
1) Because it is the law
2) Because they don't want to be caught
3) Because it makes sense.

The way the golden rule links with driving the speed limit is why would you risk your neighbor's kid's life driving over the limit because you
wouldn't want to put your kid's life at risk... That's how the Golden Rule is applied practically.

God is not religious. Religiosity ( is that a word? ) is a poor substitute for a real relationship with God. That is why it turns you off.

 

[Little-Acorn]

If You Need Help, Take It, And If You Can Give Help, Give It

I think I might agree with it if it said something like this:

If you need help don't be afraid to ask for it, and if you can help, please do, but you won't be required to.

The way it's worded above it sounds as if one needs something they can take it, and if one can help they are obligated to help.

The difference between these two statements (Doesn't matter what you meant, Marc, it only matters what you SAID), points out the subtle difference in the approach to socialism, from the approach to conservatism.

I'm pleased (and not a little surprised) at how many people in this thread caught it and pointed it out.

There may be hope yet!

 

[iamwhatiseem]

How many of you agree with that sentiment?

How many disagree?

Why/why not?

How about something that may take precedence?
"Do unto others as you would have others do unto you".
What frustrates me is people identify that as "religious" characteristic... when it is a very practical usable adage in every day life.

An illustration...
Why do most people drive the speed limit in a school zone..
1) Because it is the law
2) Because they don't want to be caught
3) Because it makes sense.

The way the golden rule links with driving the speed limit is why would you risk your neighbor's kid's life driving over the limit because you
wouldn't want to put your kid's life at risk... That's how the Golden Rule is applied practically.

Well said.
I will also say, that not everyone and every situation is the same.
A person who lost a job because their company closed, and finds themselves in dire straits - is NOT the same as a person who lost it because they either did a bad job, missed work a lot, drug use etc.
Like I said above - you can help the helpless, but not the hopeless

 

[Barb]

Meet Bella Dodd, a woman who became one of the most powerful figures of the American Communist Party in it's early years. This is her story:


The year 1953 saw Bella called up by a Congressional committee investigating the infiltration of Communists in the high places of the United States government. Her newfound faith strengthened her to face this ordeal with courage and determination. She swore before the Senate Internal Security subcommittee that there were a number of Communists in legislative offices in Congress and in a number of groups advising the President of the United States. She also testified to the Communist takeover of labor unions in the country and of her personal experience securing posts for members of the Party in the unions.

Perhaps most frightening of all was her testimony that during her time in the Party, “more than eleven hundred men had been put into the priesthood to destroy the Church from within,” the idea here being that these men would be ordained to the priesthood and progress to positions of influence and authority as monsignors and even bishops. She stated that “right now they are in the highest places in the Church” where they were working to weaken the Church’s effectiveness against Communism. These changes, she declared, would be so drastic that “you will not recognize the Catholic Church.” A few years later, in a conversation with a new Catholic friend, Alice von Hildebrand, Bella told her that there are four cardinals within the Vatican “who are working for the Communists.” This was twelve years before Vatican II. The reader can draw his own conclusions.

Shortly after her conversion, Bella had great hope for the youth of America. She saw goodness and a giving, missionary spirit in the young Catholics she worked with. Bella died in 1964 at the age of sixty.

Bella Dodd did much harm to her country and her Church. It is a great blessing that she repented of those sins. Continue reading on link below....

_____________________________________________

Bella Dodd is a key figure in understanding how communism infiltrated the Roman Catholic Church and created an epidemic of sexual abuse / molestation upon generations of altar boys, Catholic school boys and girls, children who attended their afterschool programs, etc. She is the key figure in understanding how Communists sought out community organizers with high skills such as her abilities had proven... She is a key figure in understanding how the communists infiltrated the Unions, our Government and in this case? Our churches and the doctrines of our churches! The altering of the Gospel to a false one of Marxism by some Catholic priests was not a random event. They became Priests in order to infiltrate the church. These men and women serve Satan. Not God!!! It is a plan unfolding that is decades old.

Today the Communists have infiltrated the mega evangelical churches - these pastors are communists - they live like Kings while their congregations live like paupers. Its the religion of Communism ( Liberation theology is Marxism ) and they like it that way. I wouldn't give a single one of them a nickel but millions will tune in on Sunday and send them their last dollar. Be led by the Holy Spirit about what you give to, People. Not everything is of God. Don't fund communism in the church. Buy your elderly neighor on a fixed income some groceries instead. Pay their electric bill. Then you'll know you're giving to God.

Bella Dodd ? From Communist to Catholic | Catholicism.org

Bella Dodd's story makes perfect sense. It explains perfectly where the Church is today and where America is today. It also explains why so many children were molested within the Roman Catholic church while those in higher authority moved the paedophile priests to other Parrish locations to start over again. Communism is like an organized crime family - a Mafia that operates behind a front organization - in this case - the RCC. The RCC is not alone - many evangelical churches - non-denominational churches have fallen victim and have been infiltrated today. It's good to bring this out in the open when the opportunity presents itself. The truth is what sets us free. - Jeremiah

Okay, I was afraid that you were going here with this. I don't do the whole organized religion thing - more a "we're all just walking each other home" / all roads lead to Rome type of girl myself - but I think you've fallen prey to some talking points geared toward undermining the best Pope the RCC has had in, well, ever. I truly believe that with his platform and outlook, he could change the world (and the RCC) for the better.

Take a good look around at what unbridled capitalism has wrought, and recognize that every complaint about privilege with no accountability for a very few has been achieved right here at home. Times being hard all over, the "invisible hand" saw pick pocketing as a lucrative endeavor.

Man is born free, and everywhere he is in chains.

Jean-Jacques Rousseau

 

[MarcATL]

I think I might agree with it if it said something like this:

If you need help don't be afraid to ask for it, and if you can help, please do, but you won't be required to.

The way it's worded above it sounds as if one needs something they can take it, and if one can help they are obligated to help.

I agree that the word "take" does seem a bit forceful, but that wasn't the intention, perhaps the word "get" or even "accept" would be better." As for the latter part, well yes, it is a suggested way of life.

Also, a principle of Christianity...for those of us who are so inclined.

Still, the definition of giving help is very open to interpretation.

For many the help they want is considered enabling bad decisions for others

That's a judgement call, and goes beyond what is required of us.

What if the good Samaritan Jesus spoke about applied the same rationale and decided that the badly hurt and damaged fellow should have known better and not be in that type of neighborhood at that time of day? He would have passed right by like the fellow Jew or the Pharisee. Right?

 

[MarcATL]

How many of you agree with that sentiment?

How many disagree?

Why/why not?

The sentiment is nice but it will never happen.

This country has more takers than givers. More people are on welfare than ever before and most blacks believing they are owed something. These people are not givers.

Well I knew where you were coming from from the get go. Blacks are the problem, and if we could just get them to straighten up and act right, or just get rid of them altogether, it would solve all our problems...right?

Nothing new here.

Carry on.

 

[MarcATL]

Accept is a good choice of words, Marc. I agree with you that this is a principle of Christianity and a reflection of the early church. They shared what they had so that those who lacked had enough and those who had an abundance were given an opportunity to help their brethren.

This ended when Communism took the principle taught in the book of Acts and implemented their own "commune" style doctrine which took by force what belonged to others to redistribute to everyone else. ( this is where the enemies of Jesus Christ came up with the term "Communism" - its commune living without Jesus Christ as Lord and Master - instead the Communist leaders want to be your Lord and Master )

Another difference of course was that the Apostles who led the early church lived very frugal lives. They never tried to take advantage of the situation. The evidence: Paul had one coat. Not a forty million dollar mansion with 2 closets packed full of designer suits. The Apostles wouldn't have dreamed of living extravagant lives like the Communist leaders have done. While they do adhere to the principles of Book of Acts they deny Jesus Christ and have attempted to replace him as Lord over the people. They live like Kings while the people live in poverty and are treated like a herd of cattle.

If you will note Mao, Kim Jong Il, etc have all had demanded the people of their nations worship them as a deity. These communist leaders dined like Kings while their people starved to death and lacked the basic necessities. There is nothing new under the sun as the writer of Ecclesiastes said. It is still going on today.

The bible teachings are quite different from Liberation theology teachings. The bible says if a man will not work neither will he eat. The bible says a man would plant his own own vineyard, build his own house. He would profit from his own vineyard and live in the house he built.

Communism teaches the opposite of what the bible teaches. It is a doctine of devils.

Not exactly sure how you got so much communism from the OP, but since you're bringing up man-mad systems, capitalism isn't perfect either. As it stands today, we have Hyper Greed Capitalism, it's all for self. Selfishness is a doctrine straight from The Devil himself. As you know, it's THEE singular root of sin. One would be wise to consider how you praise such a system.

 

[Mac1958]

If You Need Help, Take It, And If You Can Give Help, Give It

I think I might agree with it if it said something like this:

If you need help don't be afraid to ask for it, and if you can help, please do, but you won't be required to.

The way it's worded above it sounds as if one needs something they can take it, and if one can help they are obligated to help.

The difference between these two statements (Doesn't matter what you meant, Marc, it only matters what you SAID), points out the subtle difference in the approach to socialism, from the approach to conservatism.

I'm pleased (and not a little surprised) at how many people in this thread caught it and pointed it out.

There may be hope yet!

Yeah.

But to me the bigger issue is cultural.

On one end, we need to do a better job of challenging people to be independent, and on the other we need to create a better culture of giving and helping.

This should have nothing to do with government. We have all the wealth and resources we need to do this without the government.

.

 

[MarcATL]

I think I might agree with it if it said something like this:

If you need help don't be afraid to ask for it, and if you can help, please do, but you won't be required to.

The way it's worded above it sounds as if one needs something they can take it, and if one can help they are obligated to help.

I agree that the word "take" does seem a bit forceful, but that wasn't the intention, perhaps the word "get" or even "accept" would be better." As for the latter part, well yes, it is a suggested way of life.

Also, a principle of Christianity...for those of us who are so inclined.

And as a Christian I have seen nowhere within the bible that says to shirk our responsibilities to the government, but for we, ourselves to engage with those in need. By saying "let our taxes do the work for us to help those in need" removes us from knowing what that persons very plight is and how we might come to know other ways in which we can help. It is so much easier to let someone else (or govt. body) do what we ourselves should be ordained to do.

Not sure how the OP lead you to taxes.

However, Scripture states that "the poor will always be with us."

What do you get from that?

 

[natstew]

How many of you agree with that sentiment?

How many disagree?

Why/why not?

Take your muslim crap back to the shit hole Muhammad crawled out of and crawl back in it!