If you are HONEST, you are AGNOSTIC

[Frannie]

I believe in God but what you just posted is blithering nonsense. God has form he impregnated Mary and is as real as you and I

Yes, God is real but God isn’t like anything we can relate to in the material world.

You have no information available to come to that conclusion.

Fact if one believes that God brought life to the Earth and we take life to another dead planet why are we not God?

An interesting point. For that matter, most of the things early man considered to constitute a god can be done by humans now. Perhaps it is merely a matter of technology.

Furthermore if you read DNA it is clearly a base 4 computer program that both builds, modifies and operates the computers that are life

I wouldn't call it clear, but life certainly adapts to environment.

Life adapts to the environment because it is programmed to do that. This is the same goal that current computer programmers have which is the master program to react and adapt to the current operating environment by say reacting to viruses by change which can happen independently of the creating programmer

 

[ding]

At the heart of this debate is whether or not the material world was created by spirit. If the material world were not created by spirit, then everything which has occurred since the beginning of space and time are products of the material world. Everything which is incorporeal proceeded from the corporeal. There is no middle ground. There is no other option. Either the material world was created by spirit or it wasn't. All other options will simplify to one of these two lowest common denominators which are mutually exclusive.

So we need to start from that position and examine the evidence we have at our disposal which is creation itself. Specifically, the laws of nature; physical, biological and moral. And how space and time has evolved. And how we perceive God.

I do not accept your premise as to the choices available. The only real fact we have is that currently we have not the slightest clue what happened, if there was an external factor and, if so, what that factor might have been. We have no evidence at our disposal to examine.

That is actually at the heart of the debate. Whether we accept the fact we simply do now know, or insist that this unsupported belief is superior to that unsupported belief.

You have everything within space and time within your disposal. Beings that know and create were predestined to exist by the laws of nature before space and time existed. These are not opinions. These are facts supported by science.

Sorry. Those are unsupported opinions. Not facts supported by anything.

Your existence says otherwise.

No, it doesn't. My existence only says that I exist.

Sure it does. You are living proof that the laws of nature produced intelligence.

 

[ding]

Still nothing meaningful. Does God have appendages, DNA, fingernails, etc.?

No. God is beyond anything that we know because God exists outside of space and time.

God is consciousness without form. A mind without a body or any material aspect.

How do you arrive at that conclusion?

It’s simple really. Matter and energy cannot exist outside of space and time. The existence of matter and energy creates space and time.

How do you know consciousness isn't energy or require matter?

Because it is intangible.

 

[ding]

Still nothing meaningful. Does God have appendages, DNA, fingernails, etc.?

No. God is beyond anything that we know because God exists outside of space and time.

God is consciousness without form. A mind without a body or any material aspect.

How do you arrive at that conclusion?

It’s simple really. Matter and energy cannot exist outside of space and time. The existence of matter and energy creates space and time.

Space and time are not adequately defined for you to come to any conclusions

Red shift, cosmic background radiation and Friedmann’s solutions to Einstein’s field equations says otherwise.

 

[Frannie]

I do not accept your premise as to the choices available. The only real fact we have is that currently we have not the slightest clue what happened, if there was an external factor and, if so, what that factor might have been. We have no evidence at our disposal to examine.

That is actually at the heart of the debate. Whether we accept the fact we simply do now know, or insist that this unsupported belief is superior to that unsupported belief.

You have everything within space and time within your disposal. Beings that know and create were predestined to exist by the laws of nature before space and time existed. These are not opinions. These are facts supported by science.

Sorry. Those are unsupported opinions. Not facts supported by anything.

Your existence says otherwise.

No, it doesn't. My existence only says that I exist.

Sure it does. You are living proof that the laws of nature produced intelligence.

Nature has no ability to program life forms. All science trying to prove this has failed.

 

[ding]

Good, intelligent, powerful, eternal, unchanging, logical, loving, caring.

The support can be found in what he created.

Those words are meaningless. If you ask me what a dog is I can certainly give you a description which will allow you to identify a dog when you see one.

What is God?

God is existence. God is reality. God is consciousness without form.

I believe in God but what you just posted is blithering nonsense. God has form he impregnated Mary and is as real as you and I

Yes, God is real but God isn’t like anything we can relate to in the material world.

You have no information available to come to that conclusion.

Fact if one believes that God brought life to the Earth and we take life to another dead planet why are we not God?

The same laws which describe the evolution of space and time were obeyed during the creation of the universe. Those laws are not matter or energy and they existed before the universe. So I disagree that I have no information to form that conclusion. I literally have an example of something that is not matter or energy existing before space and time.

 

[Frannie]

Still nothing meaningful. Does God have appendages, DNA, fingernails, etc.?

No. God is beyond anything that we know because God exists outside of space and time.

God is consciousness without form. A mind without a body or any material aspect.

How do you arrive at that conclusion?

It’s simple really. Matter and energy cannot exist outside of space and time. The existence of matter and energy creates space and time.

Space and time are not adequately defined for you to come to any conclusions

Red shift, cosmic background radiation and Friedmann’s solutions to Einstein’s field equations says otherwise.

And those equations are clearly wrong if their product is that 85 percent of the universe is missing.
In fact physicist are so mystified about the universe that they are speculating that it is a computer simulation

 

[ding]

You have everything within space and time within your disposal. Beings that know and create were predestined to exist by the laws of nature before space and time existed. These are not opinions. These are facts supported by science.

Sorry. Those are unsupported opinions. Not facts supported by anything.

Your existence says otherwise.

No, it doesn't. My existence only says that I exist.

Sure it does. You are living proof that the laws of nature produced intelligence.

Nature has no ability to program life forms. All science trying to prove this has failed.

We are constantly evolving as per the laws of nature.

 

[Frannie]

Those words are meaningless. If you ask me what a dog is I can certainly give you a description which will allow you to identify a dog when you see one.

What is God?

God is existence. God is reality. God is consciousness without form.

I believe in God but what you just posted is blithering nonsense. God has form he impregnated Mary and is as real as you and I

Yes, God is real but God isn’t like anything we can relate to in the material world.

You have no information available to come to that conclusion.

Fact if one believes that God brought life to the Earth and we take life to another dead planet why are we not God?

The same laws which describe the evolution of space and time were obeyed during the creation of the universe. Those laws are not matter or energy and they existed before the universe. So I disagree that I have no information to form that conclusion. I literally have an example of something that is not matter or energy existing before space and time.

There is no evidence for that what you just said is a religious belief

 

[ding]

No. God is beyond anything that we know because God exists outside of space and time.

God is consciousness without form. A mind without a body or any material aspect.

How do you arrive at that conclusion?

It’s simple really. Matter and energy cannot exist outside of space and time. The existence of matter and energy creates space and time.

Space and time are not adequately defined for you to come to any conclusions

Red shift, cosmic background radiation and Friedmann’s solutions to Einstein’s field equations says otherwise.

And those equations are clearly wrong if their product is that 85 percent of the universe is missing.
In fact physicist are so mystified about the universe that they are speculating that it is a computer simulation

Again I will point to red shift and cosmic background radiation. Observations that prove space and time were created.

 

[ding]

God is existence. God is reality. God is consciousness without form.

I believe in God but what you just posted is blithering nonsense. God has form he impregnated Mary and is as real as you and I

Yes, God is real but God isn’t like anything we can relate to in the material world.

You have no information available to come to that conclusion.

Fact if one believes that God brought life to the Earth and we take life to another dead planet why are we not God?

The same laws which describe the evolution of space and time were obeyed during the creation of the universe. Those laws are not matter or energy and they existed before the universe. So I disagree that I have no information to form that conclusion. I literally have an example of something that is not matter or energy existing before space and time.

There is no evidence for that what you just said is a religious belief

I don’t see how it is a religious belief. It’s based on science.

 

[Frannie]

Sorry. Those are unsupported opinions. Not facts supported by anything.

Your existence says otherwise.

No, it doesn't. My existence only says that I exist.

Sure it does. You are living proof that the laws of nature produced intelligence.

Nature has no ability to program life forms. All science trying to prove this has failed.

We are constantly evolving as per the laws of nature.

How did hundreds of thousands of DNA lines assemble themselves in mud to form the simplest organism?

Clearly you know

 

[ding]

Yes, God is real but God isn’t like anything we can relate to in the material world.

You have no information available to come to that conclusion.

Fact if one believes that God brought life to the Earth and we take life to another dead planet why are we not God?

An interesting point. For that matter, most of the things early man considered to constitute a god can be done by humans now. Perhaps it is merely a matter of technology.

Furthermore if you read DNA it is clearly a base 4 computer program that both builds, modifies and operates the computers that are life

I wouldn't call it clear, but life certainly adapts to environment.

Life adapts to the environment because it is programmed to do that. This is the same goal that current computer programmers have which is the master program to react and adapt to the current operating environment by say reacting to viruses by change which can happen independently of the creating programmer

Yes. Life was programmed. No doubt about that. Life and intelligence are written into the laws of nature.

 

[ding]

Your existence says otherwise.

No, it doesn't. My existence only says that I exist.

Sure it does. You are living proof that the laws of nature produced intelligence.

Nature has no ability to program life forms. All science trying to prove this has failed.

We are constantly evolving as per the laws of nature.

How did hundreds of thousands of DNA lines assemble themselves in mud to form the simplest organism?

Clearly you know

No one knows how life made the leap from inanimate matter. It was either a divine act or it self assembled itself.

 

[Frannie]

You have no information available to come to that conclusion.

Fact if one believes that God brought life to the Earth and we take life to another dead planet why are we not God?

An interesting point. For that matter, most of the things early man considered to constitute a god can be done by humans now. Perhaps it is merely a matter of technology.

Furthermore if you read DNA it is clearly a base 4 computer program that both builds, modifies and operates the computers that are life

I wouldn't call it clear, but life certainly adapts to environment.

Life adapts to the environment because it is programmed to do that. This is the same goal that current computer programmers have which is the master program to react and adapt to the current operating environment by say reacting to viruses by change which can happen independently of the creating programmer

Yes. Life was programmed. No doubt about that. Life and intelligence are written into the laws of nature.

Show where programming happens out of nothing except blank dead mud

 

[ding]

An interesting point. For that matter, most of the things early man considered to constitute a god can be done by humans now. Perhaps it is merely a matter of technology.

Furthermore if you read DNA it is clearly a base 4 computer program that both builds, modifies and operates the computers that are life

I wouldn't call it clear, but life certainly adapts to environment.

Life adapts to the environment because it is programmed to do that. This is the same goal that current computer programmers have which is the master program to react and adapt to the current operating environment by say reacting to viruses by change which can happen independently of the creating programmer

Yes. Life was programmed. No doubt about that. Life and intelligence are written into the laws of nature.

Show where programming happens out of nothing except blank dead mud

Read my last post.

 

[Frannie]

No, it doesn't. My existence only says that I exist.

Sure it does. You are living proof that the laws of nature produced intelligence.

Nature has no ability to program life forms. All science trying to prove this has failed.

We are constantly evolving as per the laws of nature.

How did hundreds of thousands of DNA lines assemble themselves in mud to form the simplest organism?

Clearly you know

No one knows how life made the leap from inanimate matter. It was either a divine act or it self assembled itself.

But we already know how life will get to Mars, because God will bring it there

 

[ding]

Sure it does. You are living proof that the laws of nature produced intelligence.

Nature has no ability to program life forms. All science trying to prove this has failed.

We are constantly evolving as per the laws of nature.

How did hundreds of thousands of DNA lines assemble themselves in mud to form the simplest organism?

Clearly you know

No one knows how life made the leap from inanimate matter. It was either a divine act or it self assembled itself.

But we already know how life will get to Mars, because God will bring it there

Mars isn’t very conducive to creating intelligent life.

 

[Frannie]

Nature has no ability to program life forms. All science trying to prove this has failed.

We are constantly evolving as per the laws of nature.

How did hundreds of thousands of DNA lines assemble themselves in mud to form the simplest organism?

Clearly you know

No one knows how life made the leap from inanimate matter. It was either a divine act or it self assembled itself.

But we already know how life will get to Mars, because God will bring it there

Mars isn’t very conducive to creating intelligent life.

You missed the point, the moment humanity moves there God is proven

 

[ding]

We are constantly evolving as per the laws of nature.

How did hundreds of thousands of DNA lines assemble themselves in mud to form the simplest organism?

Clearly you know

No one knows how life made the leap from inanimate matter. It was either a divine act or it self assembled itself.

But we already know how life will get to Mars, because God will bring it there

Mars isn’t very conducive to creating intelligent life.

You missed the point, the moment humanity moves there God is proven

There will be no colonization of Mars. It’s a pipe dream.