If Ukraine loses the war and Russia occupies Ukraine, the US and Europe may not have a choice, but to go to war

[JimH52]

As long as Ukraine's allies continue to support it, there is no way Russia can "win" this war or occupy Ukraine. Support for Ukraine continues to grow stronger, and this war will simply not end until Russia leaves Ukraine.

I hope you are right, but Poootin is obviously nuts, so it is hard to tell where this ends up.

 

[Kruska]

The Constitution was amended much later. In 2019 this clause was added there. But that is not that important.

Why don't you check it out, before you bring in misleading statements?
Your statement: Basically, Ukraine was never poised to become a NATO member in reality, despite Russian propaganda.

1994​

Ukraine joins a collaborative partnership with NATO.

2008​

Ukraine and Georgia begin to pursue membership in the NATO alliance. Later that summer Ukraine begins talks to form ties with the European Union.

2019-20​

In 2019 Ukraine passes a constitutional amendment to pursue NATO and EU membership.

2021​

Ukraine becomes a NATO Enhanced Opportunities Partner, cooperating on missions and exercises.

The issue for Russia is any 'independent' Ukrainian government that could threaten the Russian sphere of influence.

And a "neutral" Ukraine is absolutely no threat for Russia.

 

[zaangalewa]

If Ukraine loses the war ...​

Wrong premise. The Ukraine will win. But whether the Ukraine will win or lose is also unimportant for Russia because Russia will always lose independent whether Putin will win or lose whatever he likes to win or not to lose.

And Europe always will be free to do whatever decision independent from the unreal superidiot Putin and his jungle politics.

 

[toomuchtime_]

The Constitution was amended much later. In 2019 this clause was added there. But that is not that important.

The issue for Russia is any 'independent' Ukrainian government that could threaten the Russian sphere of influence.

There are no spheres of influence in today's world. The term means exerting control over another country without having any formal arrangement allowing it to, in other words, conquest without war. Sphere of influence sounds so benign, and yet it means the same thing as imperialism. Russia is demanding control over all aspects of the Ukrainian government and is threatening to kill everyone who object: that's what sphere of influence means in this context.

 

[ESay]

Why don't you check it out, before you bring in false statements?

Are you ready to provide links?

A "neutral" Ukraine is absolutely no threat for Russia

We are going around a circle. Depends on what 'neutral' means. If Ukraine is not a NATO member, but has close ties and cooperation with NATO. It this case, Russia won't consider it as neutral.

 

[Kruska]

Are you ready to provide links?

Follow Ukraine’s 30-year struggle for independence with this visual timeline

Since the Soviet Union’s 1991 collapse, Ukraine has had to contend with neighboring Russia’s tightening grip and expanding power.

www.nationalgeographic.com

We are going around a circle. Depends on what 'neutral' means. If Ukraine is not a NATO member, but has close ties and cooperation with NATO. It this case, Russia won't consider it as neutral.

You are indeed - I had already explained why a NATO assurance towards a "neutral" Ukraine isn't feasible. But an assurance from China would be.

 

[ESay]

There are no spheres of influence in today's world. The term means exerting control over another country without having any formal arrangement allowing it to, in other words, conquest without war. Sphere of influence sounds so benign, and yet it means the same thing as imperialism. Russia is demanding control over all aspects of the Ukrainian government and is threatening to kill everyone who object: that's what sphere of influence means in this context.

Belarus is in Russian sphere of influence. But Russia didn't invade and conquer it. It has a friendly dictator there and provides economic support for his regime.

 

[ESay]

Follow Ukraine’s 30-year struggle for independence with this visual timeline

Since the Soviet Union’s 1991 collapse, Ukraine has had to contend with neighboring Russia’s tightening grip and expanding power.

www.nationalgeographic.com

You are indeed - I had already explained why a NATO assurance towards a "neutral" Ukraine isn't feasible. But an assurance from China would be.

Don't play these silly games with me, mate. We were talking about Constitutional amendments.

You are indeed - I had already explained why a NATO assurance towards a "neutral" Ukraine isn't feasible. But an assurance from China would be

And I already told you why China isn't viewed as a guarantor in this regard.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Why don't you check it out, before you bring in misleading statements?
Your statement: Basically, Ukraine was never poised to become a NATO member in reality, despite Russian propaganda.

1994​

Ukraine joins a collaborative partnership with NATO.

2008​

Ukraine and Georgia begin to pursue membership in the NATO alliance. Later that summer Ukraine begins talks to form ties with the European Union.

2019-20​

In 2019 Ukraine passes a constitutional amendment to pursue NATO and EU membership.

2021​

Ukraine becomes a NATO Enhanced Opportunities Partner, cooperating on missions and exercises.

And a "neutral" Ukraine is absolutely no threat for Russia.

By neutral, you mean under Russian control.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Belarus is in Russian sphere of influence. But Russia didn't invade and conquer it. It has a friendly dictator there and provides economic support for his regime.

Russia didn't have to invade Belarus to gain control over it, but if Belarus were to chart an independent course for itself, Russia would.

 

[zaangalewa]

... But Russia didn't invade and conquer it. ...

What's totally wrong. You underestimate the long criminal way of Lukashenko and that his forces - better to say criminal organisations - are now also under control of the Russians. Putin saved the rotting ass of Lukashenko - who is anyway not president of Belarus - and now Lukashenko is Putins slave. Nothing what Belarus is doing has anything to do with Belarus any longer. Exclusivelly only Putin decides what happens there. So Russia moves nuclear firing systems direction European Union ... and shows in this way the criminal attitudes of Putin and his gang.

 

[AlexanderPK]

Wrong premise. The Ukraine will win. But whether the Ukraine will win or lose is also unimportant for Russia because Russia will always lose independent whether Putin will win or lose whatever he likes to win or not to lose.

And Europe always will be free to do whatever decision independent from the unreal superidiot Putin and his jungle politics.

Fritz, you, EU amoebas, have no sovereignty, no will of your own, no thoughts of your own. You were born american slaves so the only option you are left with is to yap from behind your american masters. You can't be taken seriously. Shut your yapper and maybe we won't be shutting it for you. Didn't I tell you that already?

 

[ESay]

Russia didn't have to invade Belarus to gain control over it, but if Belarus were to chart an independent course for itself, Russia would.

Yes, it would. If Yanukovych had stayed in power for any longer, Ukraine would have followed the same path.

 

[JimH52]

Fritz, you, EU amoebas, have no sovereignty, no will of your own, no thoughts of your own. You were born american slaves so the only option you are left with is to yap from behind your american masters. You can't be taken seriously. Shut your yapper and maybe we won't be shutting it for you. Didn't I tell you that already?

You really are a Rusky, aren't you?

​

 

[AlexanderPK]

You really are a Rusky, aren't you?

​

You're a funny mother ******, I gotta tell you. I'm in hysterics now.

 

[Kruska]

Don't play these silly games with me, mate. We were talking about Constitutional amendments.

No we are talking about your false and misleading statement:
Basically, Ukraine was never poised to become a NATO member in reality, despite Russian propaganda.

As you can see Ukraine's drive towards NATO started already in 1994 - that the process towards full membership was partially halted in 2014 is due to NATO's clause - not admitting countries that are in a conflict or war. So once a peace - peace-treaty would be in effect, Ukraine would be admitted within a year. I further had informed you that becoming a NATO member is even written in Ukraine's constitution. As you rightfully stated it doesn't matter if that was in 2008 or in 2019.

The one playing silly games is you, trying to divert your false statement towards the 2008/2019 issue - which I had stated wrongly in regards to the date.

And I already told you why China isn't viewed as a guarantor in this regard.

No you didn't aside from another false statement of yours, that China is an ally of Russia.
China does not term Russia an aggressor - that's all. I wonder what you would call China, if they actually supplied Russia with weapons and other aid.

 

[laferia52]

If putin defeats ukraine and occupies the country it will be a setback for the western democracies

But not the end of NATO

In fact it could open the eyes of peacenik isolationists in the west who think “defense” is a dirty word

the EU countries needs to contribute more to NATO's budget.

 

[Kruska]

the EU countries needs to contribute more to NATO's budget.

You going to send the money?

 

[zaangalewa]

Fritz, you, EU amoebas, have no sovereignty, no will of your own, no thoughts of your own. You were born american slaves

We always loved the German States of America. But you are right: Our children in the USA are sometimes a little weird, wise guy from Putins grace.

so the only option you are left with is to yap from behind your american masters.

Oh by the way: This week we arrested an US-American murderer. Do you need him in your murderous troops who made meanwehile many dozens of thousands heavy war crimes in the Ukraine? And this are only the documented numbers.

You can't be taken seriously. Shut your yapper and maybe we won't be shutting it for you. Didn't I tell you that already?

What's your nationality? ET? Then go home and end your totally stupid, senseless and criminal war in the Ukraine. Try to live in harmony and peace with the Russians in your own biggest country of the world where nearly no Russians live at all so you feel the need to have to attack others. How stupid are your leaders? Totally stupid or absolutelly stupid?

 

[ESay]

No we are talking about your false and misleading statement:
Basically, Ukraine was never poised to become a NATO member in reality, despite Russian propaganda

My statement may be false for you and your ilk. For me, that is an obvious thing, as well as for any one who followed this process.

I am not going to prove you anything and you can't prove me nothing. So, let's leave it as it is.

No you didn't aside from another false statement of yours, that China is an ally of Russia.
China does not term Russia an aggressor - that's all. I wonder what you would call China, if they actually supplied Russia with weapons and other aid

I can't exclude that it happens at some point in the future.