If Ukraine loses the war and Russia occupies Ukraine, the US and Europe may not have a choice, but to go to war

[Hellokitty]

Zelensky: Ukrainian loss could force US to choose between ‘collapse of NATO’ or war

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said Thursday that a loss to Russia could ultimately force the U.S. to choose between the “collapse of NATO” or going to war. “If Ukraine would lose, if Russi…

thehill.com

I know it is scary, but that may be the only choice left. Putin is not going to stop at Ukraine, if he occupies the country.

Wait I thought Ukraine was winning.

 

[ESay]

I think it will. But Ukraine is determined to take back a good portion of what Poootin stole. I really don't see them getting back Crimea, but that is their line and they will stick with it until it is obvious that it will not happen. If we can convince China, Poootin's most power ally that the war in Ukraine is dragging their economy down, which it is, then maybe Xi Jinping will put enough pressure on Poootin to stop the war. No one wants to see WWIII. I hope the war ends before our election in 2024, but that is uncertain.

I have said to myself that I won't comment on the Ukrainian counter-offensive in the coming weeks. But, in short, I don't think Ukraine will regain much out of it.

In May of last year in one of discussions here I expressed my thought that Ukraine preserving its sovereignty from Russia and regaining Kharkiv oblast and Kherson would be considered as a 'winner' in this war by me.

Back then, it sounded funny that Ukraine can preserve something, to say nothing about 'regain'. Now, it is a reality. Since the last fall Ukraine should have adopted a strategy of building strong defence lines alongside the frontline and adapting the economy to the new reality. All anything else than that is wasting people, time and recourses.

 

[Kruska]

I know who you are.

Nope - you haven't got the slightest idea, trust me.

 

[AlexanderPK]

How much is Poootin paying you, Comrade? Or may it is the RNC? They are also Poootin humpers.

He doesn't need to. I don't like Ukro-trash, is all.

 

[ESay]

Only if NATO and Ukraine agree to keep Ukraine neutral - that's what this ridiculous war is essentially all about.

Depends on what 'neutral' is about here. If we are talking about NATO membership, then I don't think it ever happens in the foreseeable future. Basically, Ukraine was never poised to become a NATO member in reality, despite Russian propaganda.

But Ukraine should be able to defend itself from possible Russian aggression in the future. Ukraine should have close ties with NATO in defence cooperation. This doesn't fall in 'neutrality category' as seen by the Putin regime.

 

[AlexanderPK]

adapting the economy

Economy? Is there still any? No, really, is there anything, other than restaurants and some such shit left there?

 

[EMH]

What with? Hot air and IOUs?

All of the EEEWWWkraine supporters have NO CONCERN AT ALL ABOUT THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, NONE.

 

[EMH]

Gotta beat them war drums! There might be some implicating audio recordings floating around or something. Who knows. I am sure the war drums are justified

Chris Wray and homO can cook up an "audio" of Putin saying he wants all of Europe....

 

[Bleipriester]

Depends on what 'neutral' is about here. If we are talking about NATO membership, then I don't think it ever happens in the foreseeable future. Basically, Ukraine was never poised to become a NATO member in reality, despite Russian propaganda.

But Ukraine should be able to defend itself from possible Russian aggression in the future. Ukraine should have close ties with NATO in defence cooperation. This doesn't fall in 'neutrality category' as seen by the Putin regime.

The new cold war is not good for Europe. It is not even a cold war anymore.

 

[Kruska]

Depends on what 'neutral' is about here. If we are talking about NATO membership, then I don't think it ever happens in the foreseeable future. Basically, Ukraine was never poised to become a NATO member in reality, despite Russian propaganda.

Nope, and you also know that isn't true.

The whole "relationship" between Ukraine and Russia went down the drain, when Ukraine in 2008 amended it's constitution to add to it, Ukraine's declared policy to become a NATO and EU member. NATO and EU membership is therefore a part of Ukraine's constitution.

That clear guarantees would need to be given by NATO, to uphold/ensure a neutral Ukraine's sovereignty is understood. However practically this would be impossible since it would require joint exercises and a military cooperation in command and structure with NATO - otherwise NATO would be forced in case of a violation to go in on their own.

This should have happened latest in 2014 - when Russia was nowhere near a military capability to attack Ukraine. That is why I always refer to this issue as a ridiculous war.

As such to make it feasible a neutral and militarily strong country would be needed - and that could only be China. And this is why China's peace-proposal was immediately scrutinized and bickered at, by NATO - before even being publicly presented. You get my drift in regards to China and Ukraine now?

 

[jbrownson0831]

How much is Poootin paying you, Comrade? Or may it is the RNC? They are also Poootin humpers.

Come on jimboliar. In which branch did you serve and in which one will you volunteer now in the war with Poopeypants buddies??

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

Come on jimboliar. In which branch did you serve and in which one will you volunteer now in the war with Poopeypants buddies??

.

The world wants to know, JimH52

.

 

[ESay]

Economy? Is there still any? No, really, is there anything, other than restaurants and some such shit left there?

Yeah, maybe not too much. But I think that Ukraine has enough to at least support itself. The main obstacle is corrupted 'elites'.

 

[José]

Basically, Ukraine was never poised to become a
NATO member in reality, despite Russian propaganda.

Then why these two Ukrainian beauties are interviewing this broad, Vineta Kleine, Director of the NATO Information and Documentation Centre in Ukraine.

What the hell is a NATO Information and Documentation Center doing in a country that "was never poised to become a NATO member"?

​

 

[AlexanderPK]

"was never poisoned to become a NATO member"

 

[ESay]

Nope, and you also know that isn't true.

The whole "relationship" between Ukraine and Russia went down the drain, when Ukraine in 2008 amended it's constitution to add to it, Ukraine's declared policy to become a NATO and EU member. NATO and EU membership is therefore a part of Ukraine's constitution.

That clear guarantees would need to be given by NATO, to uphold/ensure a neutral Ukraine's sovereignty is understood. However practically this would be impossible since it would require joint exercises and a military cooperation in command and structure with NATO - otherwise NATO would be forced in case of a violation to go in on their own.

This should have happened latest in 2014 - when Russia was nowhere near a military capability to attack Ukraine. That is why I always refer to this issue as a ridiculous war.

As such to make it feasible a neutral and militarily strong country would be needed - and that could only be China. And this is why China's peace-proposal was immediately scrutinized and bickered at, by NATO - before even being publicly presented. You get my drift in regards to China and Ukraine now?

Sigh. . Ukraine 'not becoming' a NATO member was not because of Ukraine's desires or wishes (though, that can be another topic of discussion).

Ukraine 'not becoming' a NATO member was primarily because of unwillingness of some European members - Germany and France as a prime example - to 'provoke' Russia. And that was the main reason why Ukraine didn't get the MAP in 2008 and security guarantees and direct arm supplies since 2014 (except when the Trump admin decided to green light them in some limited scale).

No, I don't get you China Ukraine drift. First of all, China is viewed here as a Russia ally and isn't trusted too much. Second, Ukraine (okay, significant part of it that is controlled by the Ukrainian government now) wants to be affiliated with the West. That is the reason why the first split happened in 2004.

 

[Kruska]

Sigh. . Ukraine 'not becoming' a NATO member was not because of Ukraine's desires or wishes (though, that can be another topic of discussion).

Ukraine 'not becoming' a NATO member was primarily because of unwillingness of some European members - Germany and France as a prime example - to 'provoke' Russia. And that was the main reason why Ukraine didn't get the MAP in 2008 and security guarantees and direct arm supplies since 2014 (except when the Trump admin decided to green light them in some limited scale).

No, I don't get you China Ukraine drift. First of all, China is viewed here as a Russia ally and isn't trusted too much. Second, Ukraine (okay, significant part of it that is controlled by the Ukrainian government now) wants to be affiliated with the West. That is the reason why the first split happened in 2004.

That's not the issue for Russia - The issue for Russia is:
Ukraine in 2008 amended it's constitution to add to it, Ukraine's declared policy to become a NATO and EU member. NATO and EU membership is therefore a part of Ukraine's constitution.
If you can't see the obvious benefit in regards to Ukraine/China - well then.....

 

[luiza]

The money will come to fight a war if needed, Comrade. Now go back and tell Poootin to back off or feel the pain.

Let's have a decent post from you.
Childish ad hominem gutter comments are so silly in isolation .
And you do not want fellow posters to see you being so immature .

 

[toomuchtime_]

Zelensky: Ukrainian loss could force US to choose between ‘collapse of NATO’ or war

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said Thursday that a loss to Russia could ultimately force the U.S. to choose between the “collapse of NATO” or going to war. “If Ukraine would lose, if Russi…

thehill.com

I know it is scary, but that may be the only choice left. Putin is not going to stop at Ukraine, if he occupies the country.

As long as Ukraine's allies continue to support it, there is no way Russia can "win" this war or occupy Ukraine. Support for Ukraine continues to grow stronger, and this war will simply not end until Russia leaves Ukraine.

 

[ESay]

That's not the issue for Russia - The issue for Russia is:
Ukraine in 2008 amended it's constitution to add to it, Ukraine's declared policy to become a NATO and EU member. NATO and EU membership is therefore a part of Ukraine's constitution.
If you can't see the obvious benefit in regards to Ukraine/China - well then.....

The Constitution was amended much later. In 2019 this clause was added there. But that is not that important.

The issue for Russia is any 'independent' Ukrainian government that could threaten the Russian sphere of influence.