If the US healthcare system is the best and socialism is the worst

[Meister]

health care is a huge issue. i ended up in the ER due to food poising while on a business trip (in Chicago of all places). if i had not had insurance, my 3 hours stay would have cost $4500. what average american has $4500 sitting in the bank if they get food poisoning and end up in the hospital?

No one is saying health care is not an issue.

However, expanding government controls in order to deal with this issue is another issue.

Government already deals with health care with VA and Medicare and other social programs.

Running up deficits in the process...please be thorough in you posts about this.

 

[Meister]

I really feel that the healthcare issue isn't so much about the people, but it is about expanding the government giving way too much power over our lives.

It's about profits for the insurance companies.

Oh, Jesus H tapdancing Christ....Another one.

Yet, somehow or another, forcing everyone to have the federal gubmint as the insurance monopoly is going to make it allllll better?

Ever wonder why the hell is it socialists just hate monopolies, except when those monopolies are run by gubmint?

 

[Oddball]

Well for the first two years never because the Dems had a filibuster proof majority.
ANy other stupid questions?

the filibuster proof majority lasted 134 days on paper and 49 days in reality.
The Democrats’ 134-Day Supermajority | PoliPundit.com

Obamacare is the product of a brief moment of total Democratic dominance in Washington. Key to that dominance was a 60-seat, filibuster-proof Senate majority. It wasn’t a sure bet for Democrats; despite victories in 2008, the party’s hopes for that majority depended on the outcome of a contested race in Minnesota. After a controversial recount, Al Franken became the 60th Democratic senator on July 7, 2009, giving Democrats an unassailable edge.
But that majority disappeared just 49 days later when, on August 25, 2009, Massachusetts Democratic Sen. Ted Kennedy died.

Al Franken made that 60th senator but was not made a full senator until july 7th. 49 days later Ted Kennedy died.

anything you need to be proven wrong on?

Do you actually know how Universal heath care works?

Like the IRS, only with your life in their hands.

 

[Katiegrrl0]

Those countries are not in the best shape economically partly due to the healthcare they have. Germany rations their healthcare....and some of the doctors have to close their doors until the next funding distribution.

Do you have links to your information? Without some source the claim is invalid.

I hope you trust NPR.

Nearly all hospital-based doctors are salaried, and those salaries are part of hospital budgets that are negotiated each year between hospitals and "sickness funds" — the 240 nonprofit insurance companies that cover nearly nine out of 10 Germans through their jobs. (About 10 percent, who are generally higher income, opt out of the main system to buy insurance from for-profit companies. A small fraction get tax-subsidized care.)

Office-based doctors in Germany operate much like U.S. physicians do. They're private entrepreneurs who get a fee from insurers for every visit and every procedure they perform. The big difference is that groups of office-based physicians in every region negotiate with insurers to arrive at collective annual budgets.

Those doctor budgets get divided into quarterly amounts — a limited pot of money for each region. Once doctors collectively use up that money, that's it — there's no more until the next quarter.

It's a powerful incentive for doctors to exercise restraint — not to provide more care than is necessary. But often, the pot of money is exhausted before the end of the quarter.That's why Leibl is chronically angry.

"I don't get paid at the moment," he said recently, near the end of a quarter. "I haven't been paid for what I'm doing for the last two or three weeks."

He has to wait until the beginning of the next quarter before the sickness funds will start paying the bills he submits. Some German doctors simply close their doors and take a vacation at the end of every quarter.
Keeping German Doctors On A Budget Lowers Costs : NPR

Thank you for the article. I am not saying this is the answer to their current difficulty but perhaps when the new contract was made there was little foresight used in expanding the costs. After the next budget negotiations on medical we will see if the problem still exists. I doubt that it will.

 

[Meister]

I really feel that the healthcare issue isn't so much about the people, but it is about expanding the government giving way too much power over our lives.

health care is a huge issue. i ended up in the ER due to food poising while on a business trip (in Chicago of all places). if i had not had insurance, my 3 hours stay would have cost $4500. what average american has $4500 sitting in the bank if they get food poisoning and end up in the hospital?

The top two percent that don't need to pay a few more dollars in taxes have $4500 in the bank and then some. They have your $4500 as well.

Really?

So it's more about government ideology than it is about healthcare for the people...isn't it?
That's the same view as the politicians. No credibility on your behalf...too bad

 

[Meister]

Do you have links to your information? Without some source the claim is invalid.

I hope you trust NPR.

Nearly all hospital-based doctors are salaried, and those salaries are part of hospital budgets that are negotiated each year between hospitals and "sickness funds" — the 240 nonprofit insurance companies that cover nearly nine out of 10 Germans through their jobs. (About 10 percent, who are generally higher income, opt out of the main system to buy insurance from for-profit companies. A small fraction get tax-subsidized care.)

Office-based doctors in Germany operate much like U.S. physicians do. They're private entrepreneurs who get a fee from insurers for every visit and every procedure they perform. The big difference is that groups of office-based physicians in every region negotiate with insurers to arrive at collective annual budgets.

Those doctor budgets get divided into quarterly amounts — a limited pot of money for each region. Once doctors collectively use up that money, that's it — there's no more until the next quarter.

It's a powerful incentive for doctors to exercise restraint — not to provide more care than is necessary. But often, the pot of money is exhausted before the end of the quarter.That's why Leibl is chronically angry.

"I don't get paid at the moment," he said recently, near the end of a quarter. "I haven't been paid for what I'm doing for the last two or three weeks."

He has to wait until the beginning of the next quarter before the sickness funds will start paying the bills he submits. Some German doctors simply close their doors and take a vacation at the end of every quarter.
Keeping German Doctors On A Budget Lowers Costs : NPR

Thank you for the article. I am not saying this is the answer to their current difficulty but perhaps when the new contract was made there was little foresight used in expanding the costs. After the next budget negotiations on medical we will see if the problem still exists. I doubt that it will.

All they need to do is double down on more government "revenue"...that will resolve the problem.

See how this works with healthcare?

 

[Vidi]

That's why Greece is bankrupt?
Because Goldman lied?
Because Greece was admitted into the EU?
Or because Greece spends too much? LOL!

Get your head out of Limbaugh's ass and READ CAREFULLY AND COMPREHENSIVELY what I wrote, chuckles.

But since you're too dense, let me dumb it down for you: Greece's financial state should have made it non-applicable to the EU....but with a little help from Goldman Sachs, they got in....which essentially made them a grave risk to the EU market.

The EU bought into the toxic packages that our banks were putting on the market a'la the housing loan debacle...so when that bubble burst, the EU suffered as well, and Greece being a weak link to begin with, went down.

Do some honest homework to verify what I'm saying, chuckles....because I'm damned tired of doing the legwork for willfully ignorant jokers like you.

The EU had their own housing loan debacles.
See Ireland and Spain.

Still waiting for you to prove that Greece's economy was screwed by Goldman.
Or that Greece bought any US mortgages.
Keep trying!

Goldman Sachs was not the CAUSE of Greeces financial troubles, but they did contribute and profit off of it.

( whihc is not the same as causing it )

Goldman Sachs’ role in Greece a real scandal


Theres tons of articles about it with a quick "Greece Goldman Sachs" google, but the long and the short of it is Greece was in financial trouble, they used Goldman Sachs to lie about their true situtatiion, Goldman helped them lie, then bet against Greece and made a huge profit doing it.

Some may say that what Goldman Sachs did was unethical because they basically used insider information to bet against their own client, but they did not CAUSE Greece to collapse.

 

[Katiegrrl0]

Do you have links to your information? Without some source the claim is invalid.

I hope you trust NPR.

Nearly all hospital-based doctors are salaried, and those salaries are part of hospital budgets that are negotiated each year between hospitals and "sickness funds" — the 240 nonprofit insurance companies that cover nearly nine out of 10 Germans through their jobs. (About 10 percent, who are generally higher income, opt out of the main system to buy insurance from for-profit companies. A small fraction get tax-subsidized care.)

Office-based doctors in Germany operate much like U.S. physicians do. They're private entrepreneurs who get a fee from insurers for every visit and every procedure they perform. The big difference is that groups of office-based physicians in every region negotiate with insurers to arrive at collective annual budgets.

Those doctor budgets get divided into quarterly amounts — a limited pot of money for each region. Once doctors collectively use up that money, that's it — there's no more until the next quarter.

It's a powerful incentive for doctors to exercise restraint — not to provide more care than is necessary. But often, the pot of money is exhausted before the end of the quarter.That's why Leibl is chronically angry.

"I don't get paid at the moment," he said recently, near the end of a quarter. "I haven't been paid for what I'm doing for the last two or three weeks."

He has to wait until the beginning of the next quarter before the sickness funds will start paying the bills he submits. Some German doctors simply close their doors and take a vacation at the end of every quarter.
Keeping German Doctors On A Budget Lowers Costs : NPR

Ooopsie!

Oooopie what. I asked for a link he provided one. It explains a situation. It does not cover the causes and the remedies. Do you have any idea how those costa and expenses are negotiated. Medical care is contracted. If in fact the number was made to low after the life of the contract this can happen. It happened in Sweden years ago and was quickly corrected in the next contract. Maybe you would do well to learn something about the workings of the world before you decide to chuckle. A German article or information would be better but at least he provided a picture of what has happened.

 

[Katiegrrl0]

I really feel that the healthcare issue isn't so much about the people, but it is about expanding the government giving way too much power over our lives.

It's about profits for the insurance companies.

So? It could be competition for insurance companies also if the government would let it happen.
I get so tired of how people like you think private companies/corporations are evil. They helped our country become the greatest nation on Earth.

You made a judgment about what I think. I do not think they are evil at all that's how the US works and has flourished for years. I tend to think these days the profits have grown far to much and made costs outrageous and in many cases unaffordable.

I think this is how it works with insurance companies. They fight tooth and nail to cover as little as possible. A lot of preventative care has been taken away. Keeping people healthy is a priority the US has forgotten about. The healthy person misses less work. They cause lines at the doctors office and waste time for doctors.

 

[Vidi]

Perhaps the government should have a safety net for people that are in the position that your brother was in. It wouldn't take such a broad implementation as what is being thrown at us. I believe that most Americans would be in favor of a safety net approach regarding the issue.

That safety net would be universal health care all would be covered.

No....not for everyone...just the people who fall through the cracks.

At pennies on the dollar compared to UHS for all. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. it doesn't have to be just government...it's better to have both government and private involved

Thats the way it is in many of so called socialist government run health care programs. A combination of public and private though there are some difference, its very simlar to what we have now in the US

The Bismarck Model
Named for the Prussian Chancellor Otto von Bismarck, who invented the welfare state as part of the unification of Germany in the 19th century. Despite its European heritage, this system of providing health care would look fairly familiar to Americans. It uses an insurance system — the insurers are called “sickness funds” — usually financed jointly by employers and employees through payroll deduction.

Unlike the U.S. insurance industry, though, Bismarck-type health insurance plans have to cover everybody, and they don’t make a profit. Doctors and hospitals tend to be private in Bismarck countries; Japan has more private hospitals than the U.S. Although this is a multi-payer model — Germany has about 240 different funds — tight regulation gives government much of the cost-control clout that the single-payer Beveridge Model provides.

The Bismarck model is found in Germany, of course, and France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Japan, Switzerland, and, to a degree, in Latin America.

There are only four basic health care systems in the world. If youd like to read up on the four, click the link below.

Health Care Systems - Four Basic Models

 

[Oddball]

I hope you trust NPR.

Nearly all hospital-based doctors are salaried, and those salaries are part of hospital budgets that are negotiated each year between hospitals and "sickness funds" — the 240 nonprofit insurance companies that cover nearly nine out of 10 Germans through their jobs. (About 10 percent, who are generally higher income, opt out of the main system to buy insurance from for-profit companies. A small fraction get tax-subsidized care.)

Office-based doctors in Germany operate much like U.S. physicians do. They're private entrepreneurs who get a fee from insurers for every visit and every procedure they perform. The big difference is that groups of office-based physicians in every region negotiate with insurers to arrive at collective annual budgets.

Those doctor budgets get divided into quarterly amounts — a limited pot of money for each region. Once doctors collectively use up that money, that's it — there's no more until the next quarter.

It's a powerful incentive for doctors to exercise restraint — not to provide more care than is necessary. But often, the pot of money is exhausted before the end of the quarter.That's why Leibl is chronically angry.

"I don't get paid at the moment," he said recently, near the end of a quarter. "I haven't been paid for what I'm doing for the last two or three weeks."

He has to wait until the beginning of the next quarter before the sickness funds will start paying the bills he submits. Some German doctors simply close their doors and take a vacation at the end of every quarter.
Keeping German Doctors On A Budget Lowers Costs : NPR

Ooopsie!

Oooopie what. I asked for a link he provided one. It explains a situation. It does not cover the causes and the remedies. Do you have any idea how those costa and expenses are negotiated. Medical care is contracted. If in fact the number was made to low after the life of the contract this can happen. It happened in Sweden years ago and was quickly corrected in the next contract. Maybe you would do well to learn something about the workings of the world before you decide to chuckle. A German article or information would be better but at least he provided a picture of what has happened.

Maybe you would do well to move the hell to Europe, if you think that their cradle-to-grave moocher state is such great shakes.

You socialist mewlers remind me of people who moved into Steamboat because it was different from Vail and Aspen, then spend the rest of their time there trying to make it more like Vail and Aspen.

You do realize that our ancestors left Europe, with little more than they could carry onto the ship, for some very compelling reasons, don't you?

 

[Katiegrrl0]

I really feel that the healthcare issue isn't so much about the people, but it is about expanding the government giving way too much power over our lives.

It's about profits for the insurance companies.

Oh, Jesus H tapdancing Christ....Another one.

Yet, somehow or another, forcing everyone to have the federal gubmint as the insurance monopoly is going to make it allllll better?

Ever wonder why the hell is it socialists just hate monopolies, except when those monopolies are run by gubmint?

The US works on profit structure. To take it away at this point makes the whole nation fall apart. The amount one takes as profit is what causes the disparity in wealth and the high costs for medical care.

 

[Meister]

I hope you trust NPR.

Nearly all hospital-based doctors are salaried, and those salaries are part of hospital budgets that are negotiated each year between hospitals and "sickness funds" — the 240 nonprofit insurance companies that cover nearly nine out of 10 Germans through their jobs. (About 10 percent, who are generally higher income, opt out of the main system to buy insurance from for-profit companies. A small fraction get tax-subsidized care.)

Office-based doctors in Germany operate much like U.S. physicians do. They're private entrepreneurs who get a fee from insurers for every visit and every procedure they perform. The big difference is that groups of office-based physicians in every region negotiate with insurers to arrive at collective annual budgets.

Those doctor budgets get divided into quarterly amounts — a limited pot of money for each region. Once doctors collectively use up that money, that's it — there's no more until the next quarter.

It's a powerful incentive for doctors to exercise restraint — not to provide more care than is necessary. But often, the pot of money is exhausted before the end of the quarter.That's why Leibl is chronically angry.

"I don't get paid at the moment," he said recently, near the end of a quarter. "I haven't been paid for what I'm doing for the last two or three weeks."

He has to wait until the beginning of the next quarter before the sickness funds will start paying the bills he submits. Some German doctors simply close their doors and take a vacation at the end of every quarter.
Keeping German Doctors On A Budget Lowers Costs : NPR

Ooopsie!

Oooopie what. I asked for a link he provided one. It explains a situation. It does not cover the causes and the remedies. Do you have any idea how those costa and expenses are negotiated. Medical care is contracted. If in fact the number was made to low after the life of the contract this can happen. It happened in Sweden years ago and was quickly corrected in the next contract. Maybe you would do well to learn something about the workings of the world before you decide to chuckle. A German article or information would be better but at least he provided a picture of what has happened.

Do you understand anything about being taxed for this type of social program.
First you have an income tax...then you have some steep gas taxes, then you have a VAT, etc, etc.
Keep your feet on the ground, would you?

 

[Katiegrrl0]

No one is saying health care is not an issue.

However, expanding government controls in order to deal with this issue is another issue.

Government already deals with health care with VA and Medicare and other social programs.

Running up deficits in the process...please be thorough in you posts about this.

So you must think insurance companies run at a loss. Every American would contribute as they do now to insurance companies. The government would be the insurer. With a larger pool instead of just those in the highest risk groups there would be more funds. But since you believe obviously that insurance companies run at a loss you may be correct.

 

[Katiegrrl0]

the filibuster proof majority lasted 134 days on paper and 49 days in reality.
The Democrats’ 134-Day Supermajority | PoliPundit.com

Obamacare is the product of a brief moment of total Democratic dominance in Washington. Key to that dominance was a 60-seat, filibuster-proof Senate majority. It wasn’t a sure bet for Democrats; despite victories in 2008, the party’s hopes for that majority depended on the outcome of a contested race in Minnesota. After a controversial recount, Al Franken became the 60th Democratic senator on July 7, 2009, giving Democrats an unassailable edge.
But that majority disappeared just 49 days later when, on August 25, 2009, Massachusetts Democratic Sen. Ted Kennedy died.

Al Franken made that 60th senator but was not made a full senator until july 7th. 49 days later Ted Kennedy died.

anything you need to be proven wrong on?

Do you actually know how Universal heath care works?

Like the IRS, only with your life in their hands.

As I thought someone that knows nothing making snide remarks. The picture and name suit you.

 

[Oddball]

It's about profits for the insurance companies.

Oh, Jesus H tapdancing Christ....Another one.

Yet, somehow or another, forcing everyone to have the federal gubmint as the insurance monopoly is going to make it allllll better?

Ever wonder why the hell is it socialists just hate monopolies, except when those monopolies are run by gubmint?

The US works on profit structure. To take it away at this point makes the whole nation fall apart. The amount one takes as profit is what causes the disparity in wealth and the high costs for medical care.

Bullshit.

The in-state defacto insurance monopolies and complete insulation of those receiving the service and those paying for it, are why the costs have escalated...Lest we leave out Medicare/Medicaid, which are financial train wrecks.

You really don't know diddly-poo about basic economics, do you?

 

[Vidi]

Perhaps the government should have a safety net for people that are in the position that your brother was in. It wouldn't take such a broad implementation as what is being thrown at us. I believe that most Americans would be in favor of a safety net approach regarding the issue.

This is the problem with almost every health care discussion. We have two distinct, and largely separate, problems with health care. One involves safety net issues - what to do about health care for the poor and indigent, and the other is what to do about spiraling health care inflation. The answer to those questions don't have much overlap, and tend to conflict. We should at least be specific about which problem we're trying to solve when proposing solutions.

Agreed, I think we could have open borders between the states for competition and have a safety net for the less fortunate.
I have always said that the government is part of the solution, but the government isn't the solution.

And thats what we are getting with the Affordable Care Act. The government isnt running the health care industry with it, its simply setting standards by which more people get covered, the mandate with the 80-85% payout should drive premium costs down ( but the jury is still out on that one. There have been right wing anf left wing economists who have gone both ways on it. meaning some left wingers say it wont and some right wingers say it will. At least we know theyre being honest instead of partisan even if they cant give us a definitive answer ).

Eventually though, if we set a goal to cover everyone, as Eisenhower wanted and Nixon proposed, the we will most likely have to expand medicare.

 

[Oddball]

Do you actually know how Universal heath care works?

Like the IRS, only with your life in their hands.

As I thought someone that knows nothing making snide remarks. The picture and name suit you.

Yeah, whatever....I'm not the one here with blind faith in bureaucratic monopoly, you are.

You want your medical care handled by the same fatasses who run the DMV, that's your funeral...Just don't wave a gun in my face and expect me to like paying for it.

 

[Katiegrrl0]

health care is a huge issue. i ended up in the ER due to food poising while on a business trip (in Chicago of all places). if i had not had insurance, my 3 hours stay would have cost $4500. what average american has $4500 sitting in the bank if they get food poisoning and end up in the hospital?

The top two percent that don't need to pay a few more dollars in taxes have $4500 in the bank and then some. They have your $4500 as well.

Really?

So it's more about government ideology than it is about healthcare for the people...isn't it?
That's the same view as the politicians. No credibility on your behalf...too bad

He asked who had the money. Do you think the top two percent don't have the money in their bank account?
Please don't insult all of us about credibility. I asked for a link and you provide a quip from NPR that tells us nothing about what actually happened to the German system and you talk about credibility. LOL not this is funny. That would be like me posting a link to Bill Maher talking about the cause of inflation.

 

[Oddball]

This is the problem with almost every health care discussion. We have two distinct, and largely separate, problems with health care. One involves safety net issues - what to do about health care for the poor and indigent, and the other is what to do about spiraling health care inflation. The answer to those questions don't have much overlap, and tend to conflict. We should at least be specific about which problem we're trying to solve when proposing solutions.

Agreed, I think we could have open borders between the states for competition and have a safety net for the less fortunate.
I have always said that the government is part of the solution, but the government isn't the solution.

And thats what we are getting with the Affordable Care Act. The government isnt running the health care industry with it, its simply setting standards by which more people get covered, the mandate with the 80-85% payout should drive premium costs down ( but the jury is still out on that one. There have been right wing anf left wing economists who have gone both ways on it. meaning some left wingers say it wont and some right wingers say it will. At least we know theyre being honest instead of partisan even if they cant give us a definitive answer ).

Eventually though, if we set a goal to cover everyone, as Eisenhower wanted and Nixon proposed, the we will most likely have to expand medicare.

More pure crap.

What Obolshevikcare care is doing is running all private insurers out of the market, leaving everyone with only one "option".