CDZ If Kate Smith has to go due to singing songs, why doesn't Major League Baseball have to go?

[JoeB131]

Read up Joe...

"the NAACP mounted a formal protest almost as soon as the television version began,[35][why?] and that pressure was considered a primary factor in the show's cancellation"

So the NAACP complained about an obviously racist show, and it ran for six seasons and wasn't finally taken off the air until 1966, you know, after they got civil rights and stuff.

Whew. They were sure shaking in their boots about the NAACP.

 

[Leo123]

Read up Joe...

"the NAACP mounted a formal protest almost as soon as the television version began,[35][why?] and that pressure was considered a primary factor in the show's cancellation"

So the NAACP complained about an obviously racist show, and it ran for six seasons and wasn't finally taken off the air until 1966, you know, after they got civil rights and stuff.

Whew. They were sure shaking in their boots about the NAACP.

Not the point Joe,
it was not a racist show and it should never have been taken off the air.

 

[JoeB131]

Not the point Joe,
it was not a racist show and it should never have been taken off the air.

It was a racist show, and by 1966, we advanced enough to realize it.

 

[Leo123]

Not the point Joe,
it was not a racist show and it should never have been taken off the air.

It was a racist show, and by 1966, we advanced enough to realize it.

Killing access to legitimate history is not 'advanced' Joe, it's regressive tyranny.

 

[JoeB131]

Killing access to legitimate history is not 'advanced' Joe, it's regressive tyranny.

It's not "History" and no one is "Killing" it. We just aren't displaying it because it was in poor taste.

 

[Leo123]

It's not "History" and no one is "Killing" it. We just aren't displaying it because it was in poor taste.

The show is part of television history no matter how you personally want to define the word. History is not defined by 'taste' it is what it is and this show was the very first sitcom featuring black actors.

 

[JoeB131]

The show is part of television history no matter how you personally want to define the word. History is not defined by 'taste' it is what it is and this show was the very first sitcom featuring black actors.

Which was still racist and unfunny... so there was that. "Hey, I know this show got cheap laughs demeaning black folks... but it's history!!! Let's preserve it!"

Kind of the same argument used to keep statues of Klan leaders up.

 

[Leo123]

The show is part of television history no matter how you personally want to define the word. History is not defined by 'taste' it is what it is and this show was the very first sitcom featuring black actors.

Which was still racist and unfunny... so there was that. "Hey, I know this show got cheap laughs demeaning black folks... but it's history!!! Let's preserve it!"

Kind of the same argument used to keep statues of Klan leaders up.

The show no more demeaned black folks than the Honeymooners demeaned white folks. We should preserve history and maybe even discuss it instead of eliminating what some organization finds 'uncomfortable'.....The actors themselves didn't think what they were doing was demeaning but then, according to NAACP they were just stupid black Uncle Toms I guess.

 

[JoeB131]

The show no more demeaned black folks than the Honeymooners demeaned white folks.

Were Ralph and Alice portrayed as Second Class citizens?

We should preserve history and maybe even discuss it instead of eliminating what some organization finds 'uncomfortable'.....

As Voltaire observed, "History is the lie everyone agrees to". We purge things from history all the time to feel better about ourselves. Take this bit of WWII propaganda.

We are all a little embarrassed about that sort of thing now. Now we try to remember that WWII was this crusade against the Nazis, and we don't talk all that much about what we did to Japan.

We can have that honest discussion without rehashing a lot of the racist propaganda of the time.

The actors themselves didn't think what they were doing was demeaning but then, according to NAACP they were just stupid black Uncle Toms I guess.

again, this isn't about the sellout Uncle Tom Actors. It was about how shows like this were used to perpetuate racism.

 

[Votto]

Okay, you make a couple of different points here.

MLB has atoned for it's segregationist past. A long time ago, in the millions of dollars it's spent on minority players.

As for Kate Smith, is her version of "God Bless America" really the best? honestly, I've heard much better renditions sung by more current artists.

Butwhataboutism isn't a defense. She sang song with racist lyrics. She never apologized for doing so when she was alive and she didn't die until 1986, by which time we can all agree,everyone knew that was wrong.

This from a party that condemns Omar for anti-Semitic ramblings but then turns right around and defends her and does not make her step down?

Xxxxxxxxxxx

 

[CHAZBUKOWSKI]

Kate Smith sang two songs mocking the racism of her time......Paul Robeson, a black civil rights activist also sang those same songs...he has buildings named after him here in Chicago....

Because she sang those two songs, mocking racism, she has been banned by the sports teams she sang for back in the day....

If she must be banned for singing two songs....why don't we have to end the Major League Baseball industry since for decades they refused to allow Blacks to play on their teams.....? They actually prevented Black Players from playing...it was an organized, concerted effort to deny these players an ability to play the game and to make a living playing it...

2 songs, to mock racism, vs. a concerted, orchestrated effort by Baseball teams to keep Blacks from playing...

Shouldn't Baseball in this country be over.....at least the teams that were around at the time should be closed down and their assets given to the players they cheated....

Right?

Who is Black Civil Rights activist Paul Robeson...who also sang both of those songs?

Paul Robeson - Wikipedia

In 1976, the apartment building on Edgecombe Avenue in the Washington Heights section of Manhattan where Robeson lived during the early 1940s was officially renamed the Paul Robeson Residence, and declared a National Historic Landmark.[316][317][318] In 1993, the building was designated a New York City landmark as well.[319] Edgecombe Avenue itself was later co-named Paul Robeson Boulevard.

The main campus library at Rutgers University-Camden is named after Robeson,[327] as is the campus center at Rutgers University-Newark.[328] The Paul Robeson Cultural Center is on the campus of Rutgers University-New Brunswick.[329]

n 1972, Penn State established a formal cultural center on the University Park campus. Students and staff chose to name the center for Robeson.[330]

A street in Princeton is named after him. In addition, the block of Davenport Street in Somerville, New Jersey, where St. Thomas AME Zion Church still stands is called Paul Robeson Boulevard.[331]

Paul Robeson High School (Chicago) - Wikipedia

Paul Robeson High School (simply known as Robeson) is a public 4–year high school located in the Englewoodneighborhood on the south side of Chicago, Illinois, United States. Opened in September 1977, Robeson is a part of the Chicago Public Schools district.[5] The school is named in honor of African-American entertainer and athlete Paul Leroy Robeson.

This might be the most nonsensical analogy ever presented. Private businesses made decision to not play her music and somehow, baseball must 'go'. Who is to make baseball teams 'go'.

 

[CHAZBUKOWSKI]

Kate Smith sang two songs mocking the racism of her time......Paul Robeson, a black civil rights activist also sang those same songs...he has buildings named after him here in Chicago....

Because she sang those two songs, mocking racism, she has been banned by the sports teams she sang for back in the day....

If she must be banned for singing two songs....why don't we have to end the Major League Baseball industry since for decades they refused to allow Blacks to play on their teams.....? They actually prevented Black Players from playing...it was an organized, concerted effort to deny these players an ability to play the game and to make a living playing it...

2 songs, to mock racism, vs. a concerted, orchestrated effort by Baseball teams to keep Blacks from playing...

Shouldn't Baseball in this country be over.....at least the teams that were around at the time should be closed down and their assets given to the players they cheated....

Right?

Who is Black Civil Rights activist Paul Robeson...who also sang both of those songs?

Paul Robeson - Wikipedia

In 1976, the apartment building on Edgecombe Avenue in the Washington Heights section of Manhattan where Robeson lived during the early 1940s was officially renamed the Paul Robeson Residence, and declared a National Historic Landmark.[316][317][318] In 1993, the building was designated a New York City landmark as well.[319] Edgecombe Avenue itself was later co-named Paul Robeson Boulevard.

The main campus library at Rutgers University-Camden is named after Robeson,[327] as is the campus center at Rutgers University-Newark.[328] The Paul Robeson Cultural Center is on the campus of Rutgers University-New Brunswick.[329]

n 1972, Penn State established a formal cultural center on the University Park campus. Students and staff chose to name the center for Robeson.[330]

A street in Princeton is named after him. In addition, the block of Davenport Street in Somerville, New Jersey, where St. Thomas AME Zion Church still stands is called Paul Robeson Boulevard.[331]

Paul Robeson High School (Chicago) - Wikipedia

Paul Robeson High School (simply known as Robeson) is a public 4–year high school located in the Englewoodneighborhood on the south side of Chicago, Illinois, United States. Opened in September 1977, Robeson is a part of the Chicago Public Schools district.[5] The school is named in honor of African-American entertainer and athlete Paul Leroy Robeson.

The problem is with Kate Smith....not "God Bless America".....why are you investing so much in her?

I'm not invested in Kate Smith, and it wasn't about "God Bless America." The two songs in question were songs mocking the racist attitude of the time, but they are offensive as they make the point....for singing these songs way back when, she has now been banned by these teams.

If she can should be banned for a misunderstood situation with these songs....the other situation....outright racism and denial of access by all of the baseball teams at the same time, a coordinated and long term practice of keeping Black players out of the league, would logically mean those baseball teams should close up shop and no longer exist.....dittos Yale University, where the founder was an actual slave seller and slave killer.

History will condemn baseballs racist policies much more severely than Kate Smith for singing some popular songs of that day

For Baseball to condescendingly condemn Smith given their reprehensible segregationist practices is mockable

When did baseball condemn her? I know the Yankees are not going to play her music, but I am not aware of any actions taken by other teams, MLB, or any other notable baseball establishments/organizaitions.

 

[bodecea]

Kate Smith sang two songs mocking the racism of her time......Paul Robeson, a black civil rights activist also sang those same songs...he has buildings named after him here in Chicago....

Because she sang those two songs, mocking racism, she has been banned by the sports teams she sang for back in the day....

If she must be banned for singing two songs....why don't we have to end the Major League Baseball industry since for decades they refused to allow Blacks to play on their teams.....? They actually prevented Black Players from playing...it was an organized, concerted effort to deny these players an ability to play the game and to make a living playing it...

2 songs, to mock racism, vs. a concerted, orchestrated effort by Baseball teams to keep Blacks from playing...

Shouldn't Baseball in this country be over.....at least the teams that were around at the time should be closed down and their assets given to the players they cheated....

Right?

Who is Black Civil Rights activist Paul Robeson...who also sang both of those songs?

Paul Robeson - Wikipedia

In 1976, the apartment building on Edgecombe Avenue in the Washington Heights section of Manhattan where Robeson lived during the early 1940s was officially renamed the Paul Robeson Residence, and declared a National Historic Landmark.[316][317][318] In 1993, the building was designated a New York City landmark as well.[319] Edgecombe Avenue itself was later co-named Paul Robeson Boulevard.

The main campus library at Rutgers University-Camden is named after Robeson,[327] as is the campus center at Rutgers University-Newark.[328] The Paul Robeson Cultural Center is on the campus of Rutgers University-New Brunswick.[329]

n 1972, Penn State established a formal cultural center on the University Park campus. Students and staff chose to name the center for Robeson.[330]

A street in Princeton is named after him. In addition, the block of Davenport Street in Somerville, New Jersey, where St. Thomas AME Zion Church still stands is called Paul Robeson Boulevard.[331]

Paul Robeson High School (Chicago) - Wikipedia

Paul Robeson High School (simply known as Robeson) is a public 4–year high school located in the Englewoodneighborhood on the south side of Chicago, Illinois, United States. Opened in September 1977, Robeson is a part of the Chicago Public Schools district.[5] The school is named in honor of African-American entertainer and athlete Paul Leroy Robeson.

The problem is with Kate Smith....not "God Bless America".....why are you investing so much in her?

I'm not invested in Kate Smith, and it wasn't about "God Bless America." The two songs in question were songs mocking the racist attitude of the time, but they are offensive as they make the point....for singing these songs way back when, she has now been banned by these teams.

If she can should be banned for a misunderstood situation with these songs....the other situation....outright racism and denial of access by all of the baseball teams at the same time, a coordinated and long term practice of keeping Black players out of the league, would logically mean those baseball teams should close up shop and no longer exist.....dittos Yale University, where the founder was an actual slave seller and slave killer.

History will condemn baseballs racist policies much more severely than Kate Smith for singing some popular songs of that day

For Baseball to condescendingly condemn Smith given their reprehensible segregationist practices is mockable

When did baseball condemn her? I know the Yankees are not going to play her music, but I am not aware of any actions taken by other teams, MLB, or any other notable baseball establishments/organizaitions.

CRCs will never skip an opportunity to play the victim.

 

[Leo123]

As Voltaire observed, "History is the lie everyone agrees to". We purge things from history all the time to feel better about ourselves. Take this bit of WWII propaganda.

View attachment 260182

We are all a little embarrassed about that sort of thing now. Now we try to remember that WWII was this crusade against the Nazis, and we don't talk all that much about what we did to Japan.

View attachment 260183

We can have that honest discussion without rehashing a lot of the racist propaganda of the time.

The actors themselves didn't think what they were doing was demeaning but then, according to NAACP they were just stupid black Uncle Toms I guess.

again, this isn't about the sellout Uncle Tom Actors. It was about how shows like this were used to perpetuate racism.

Ralph and Alice WERE portrayed as 2nd class citizens. For instance, Ralph was portrayed as a bus driver and Amos was portrayed as a cab driver. Sorry, I don't agree with that part of Voltaire's philosophy but I can see how you would as Voltaire didn't believe in God and thought humans were basically evil. I see that philosophy in your posts. The Japanese
BOMBED us.....Do you remember? At that time they were called 'Japs' because they were the enemy not because they were another race. The fact that you know that is part of HISTORY and if people like the NAACP had anything to say we'd probably not even know the history of WWII. The Amos and Andy television actors were not 'Uncle Tom sellouts' that is a blatant lie. They helped make inroads for black actors AT THE TIME.

 

[JoeB131]

This from a party that condemns Omar for anti-Semitic ramblings but then turns right around and defends her and does not make her step down?

Well, not really. The problem is there's a difference between being Anti-Semitic and Anti-Zionist.

Big hint. The Arabs are also considered a "Semitic" people.

 

[JoeB131]

Ralph and Alice WERE portrayed as 2nd class citizens. For instance, Ralph was portrayed as a bus driver and Amos was portrayed as a cab driver. Sorry, I don't agree with that part of Voltaire's philosophy but I can see how you would as Voltaire didn't believe in God and thought humans were basically evil. I see that philosophy in your posts.

Yes, there is no God and people are mostly selfish (I don't really subscribe to "evil" as a concept. The monster never looks in the mirror and sees a monster.)

There was a clearly delineation between Amos and Ralph.

The Japanese
BOMBED us.....Do you remember? At that time they were called 'Japs' because they were the enemy not because they were another race.

Well, let's look at that. Japan was not our only enemy in WWII. We were also at war iwth Germany and Italy. The funny thing was, Propagandists made a differentiation between the Nazis and Fascists and the average German/Italian, who was a good person waiting for us to liberate them.

The myth of the "Good German". The Good Germans fought for Hitler to the last old man and little boy.

The Japanese, on the other hand, were portrayed as sub-human monsters, and yes, that had a lot to do with the fact that they weren't white. So did nuking them. We'd have never nuked Germany. They were white.

The fact that you know that is part of HISTORY and if people like the NAACP had anything to say we'd probably not even know the history of WWII.

Actually, I know that because I have a degree in history... Most Americans don't realize just how racist our portrayal of the Japanese were because we've edited it out. On the other hand, Nazis are still the go-to villains in movies today.

The Amos and Andy television actors were not 'Uncle Tom sellouts' that is a blatant lie. They helped make inroads for black actors AT THE TIME.

But as you pointed out, at the time, the NAACP protested the show and it's portrayal of blacks.

 

[Votto]

This from a party that condemns Omar for anti-Semitic ramblings but then turns right around and defends her and does not make her step down?

Well, not really. The problem is there's a difference between being Anti-Semitic and Anti-Zionist.

Big hint. The Arabs are also considered a "Semitic" people.

Here is a bigger hint, Hitler teamed up with the Arab Al Amin Husseini who was an ardent anti-Zionist. He murdered Jews so they would not turn into Zionists.

He was wanted for war crimes but escaped justice. His nephew became Yasser Arafat.

 

[JoeB131]

Here is a bigger hint, Hitler teamed up with the Arab Al Amin Husseini who was an ardent anti-Zionist. He murdered Jews so they would not turn into Zionists.

He was wanted for war crimes but escaped justice. His nephew became Yasser Arafat.

Right... so what did this "Team Up" consist of, exactly? Because it doesn't seem like a guy in British occupied Palestine was going to do all that much to help Hitler.

Okay, see, buddy, most people don't like it when people come in and colonize their countries... This is your whole complaint about illegal immigrants, and they aren't acting half as obnoxious as the Zionists did in Palestine with their British handlers.

 

[Leo123]

Ralph and Alice WERE portrayed as 2nd class citizens. For instance, Ralph was portrayed as a bus driver and Amos was portrayed as a cab driver. Sorry, I don't agree with that part of Voltaire's philosophy but I can see how you would as Voltaire didn't believe in God and thought humans were basically evil. I see that philosophy in your posts.

Yes, there is no God and people are mostly selfish (I don't really subscribe to "evil" as a concept. The monster never looks in the mirror and sees a monster.)

There was a clearly delineation between Amos and Ralph.

The Japanese
BOMBED us.....Do you remember? At that time they were called 'Japs' because they were the enemy not because they were another race.

Well, let's look at that. Japan was not our only enemy in WWII. We were also at war iwth Germany and Italy. The funny thing was, Propagandists made a differentiation between the Nazis and Fascists and the average German/Italian, who was a good person waiting for us to liberate them.

The myth of the "Good German". The Good Germans fought for Hitler to the last old man and little boy.

The Japanese, on the other hand, were portrayed as sub-human monsters, and yes, that had a lot to do with the fact that they weren't white. So did nuking them. We'd have never nuked Germany. They were white.

The fact that you know that is part of HISTORY and if people like the NAACP had anything to say we'd probably not even know the history of WWII.

Actually, I know that because I have a degree in history... Most Americans don't realize just how racist our portrayal of the Japanese were because we've edited it out. On the other hand, Nazis are still the go-to villains in movies today.

View attachment 260288

The Amos and Andy television actors were not 'Uncle Tom sellouts' that is a blatant lie. They helped make inroads for black actors AT THE TIME.

But as you pointed out, at the time, the NAACP protested the show and it's portrayal of blacks.

Seems to me it's selfish to think there is no higher power. Well Joe I gave you evidence that the shows both portrayed people in a similar way. You choose to label one show (Amos and Andy) as portraying blacks as "2nd class citizens" why? Because they had black skin? Isn't THAT racist? I am really just sitting here aghast that you would say that Japan was not our enemy in WWII. Have you forgotten history? You have a degree? LOL The NAACP is racist or don't you know that?

 

[JoeB131]

Seems to me it's selfish to think there is no higher power.

Um, no. When you have no evidence of something, it's a safe assumption it doesn't exist.

Well Joe I gave you evidence that the shows both portrayed people in a similar way.

No, you really didn't.

I am really just sitting here aghast that you would say that Japan was not our enemy in WWII.

Which isn't what I said, but never mind. The problem wasn't that they were the enemy. The problem was our propagandists treated them as sub-human monsters. (Unlike the Germans, who were treated like they were Hitler's "victims" rather than his supporters.

The NAACP is racist or don't you know that?

That's the dumbest thing I've heard this morning. Yes, an organization that fights for equal treatment for minorities is "racist". ONly in the mind of white privilege.