CDZ If Kate Smith has to go due to singing songs, why doesn't Major League Baseball have to go?

[Pilot1]

MLB are huge hypocrites. If they are to examine a satirical song, meant to comment on racism, and judge it by today's standards, they need to do some self examination. MLB was racist to the extreme until 1947, and still were abusive to new Black players for years.

 

[rightwinger]

Baseballs racism in the 30s was much more damaging than Kate Smiths
Kate has no quotes or actions that endorse racism. Baseball in the 30s had many in which they defended segregated Baseball

Kate’s version of God Bless America may not be the best, but it was the first in 1938

Okay, reality check...

We aren't going to get rid of baseball.

We can make an example of Kate Smith, though... because she's dead and won't care.

I think we are still sending the right message.

It is a message of revisionist history and scapegoating a woman who was no better or no worse than any other performer of the era

No one from the thirties was outraged by that song. It took 80 years for someone to complain

Baseball has its own original sin. It took Jackie Robinson to cleanse it.

 

[Leo123]

True you don't seem to be thinking much in this thread. Read some history and maybe you won't come on here saying such silly stuff. America was very cohesive at that time and everyone felt threatened by the Nazis, Axis and 3rd Reich. Show us ANY legitimate history account of Kate Smith being a racist. BTW the 3 Stooges were a parody of Hitler and his henchmen are they now considered racist?

Yeah, you're babbling.

The stooges did a couple of shorts making fun of HItler, which HAVE largely been pulled from circulation.

In fact, a lot of stuff gets pulled because upon further reflection, it wasn't just in very good taste.

Remember a little movie from the 80's called 'Revenge of the Nerds". Today, upon reflection, it basically includes invasion of women's privacy, and a scene where the 'hero' rapes one of the 'mean girls' through deception, and she's cool with it.

Hey, no one considers that funny today! Views have changed.

Yes, America was very cohesive in WWII, in that we put a lot of the other conflicts aside for a few years. But we didn't get rid of Jim Crow even after we tapped African Americans to fight the war and build the weapons we needed to win.

Ironically, WWII probably triggered the civil rights movement, because for the first time, they got let out of the Jim Crow box, made good money, had good factory jobs, and wondered why they still had to ride on the back of the bus.

Come on Joe, provide some PROOF that Kate was a racist instead of 'babbling' about YOUR opinion of history.

 

[Leo123]

Okay, reality check...

We aren't going to get rid of baseball.

We can make an example of Kate Smith, though... because she's dead and won't care.

I think we are still sending the right message.

But millions DO care Joe. Aside from the complete disregard of her family which you seem to exhibit with what appears to be a pretty cold statement, tearing down this nation's history is what enemies do. I consider anyone wanting to wipe out American history an enemy of the U.S. Kate Smith was an icon in her time, was not racist and contributed heavily to the war effort that was mounted by this country to help rid the world of probably the most racist regime in modern history. To now claim that she was a racist, remove her statue and re write history is a flagrant attempt to remove a part of American History. That is what enemies do Joe.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Okay, you make a couple of different points here.

MLB has atoned for it's segregationist past. A long time ago, in the millions of dollars it's spent on minority players.

As for Kate Smith, is her version of "God Bless America" really the best? honestly, I've heard much better renditions sung by more current artists.

Butwhataboutism isn't a defense. She sang song with racist lyrics. She never apologized for doing so when she was alive and she didn't die until 1986, by which time we can all agree,everyone knew that was wrong.

Wah wah wahhhhhhh Kate hurt my wittle feelings wahhhhh

STFU

 

[JoeB131]

It is a message of revisionist history and scapegoating a woman who was no better or no worse than any other performer of the era

No one from the thirties was outraged by that song. It took 80 years for someone to complain

Baseball has its own original sin. It took Jackie Robinson to cleanse it.

I agree, it did. and Frankly, it still is sinning... How long did it take the Cleveland Indians to get rid of this shit!

That said, making an example out of one singer no one really cares about anymore, probably a lot easier than changing a whole industry.

Baby steps. Baby steps.

 

[JoeB131]

But millions DO care Joe. Aside from the complete disregard of her family which you seem to exhibit with what appears to be a pretty cold statement, tearing down this nation's history is what enemies do. I consider anyone wanting to wipe out American history an enemy of the U.S. Kate Smith was an icon in her time, was not racist and contributed heavily to the war effort that was mounted by this country to help rid the world of probably the most racist regime in modern history. To now claim that she was a racist, remove her statue and re write history is a flagrant attempt to remove a part of American History. That is what enemies do Joe.

Guy, we re-evaluate history all the time. It's an ongoing science. Sorry, appearing at a few USO tours did not win the war. Those guys were probably thinking, "Bring out the Showgirls!!!"

She sang racist songs... She took money for doing so.

Loving your country means evaluating it's past, saying, "Yup, this is something we did wrong, we need to atone for it."

Come on Joe, provide some PROOF that Kate was a racist instead of 'babbling' about YOUR opinion of history.

She sang a song about 'That's why the darkies were born". The Darkies didn't care for it all that much, for some reason.

What’s the story behind those Kate Smith songs with racist lyrics?

But “Darkies” and “Pickaninny” aren’t the only examples of Smith being associated with regressive racial attitudes that are now viewed as grossly offensive, even if they were acceptable to a white audience at the time. In 1939, an advertisement for a Smith cookbook used a “Mammy Doll” caricature, depicting black women as eager-to-please servants.

 

[rightwinger]

It is a message of revisionist history and scapegoating a woman who was no better or no worse than any other performer of the era

No one from the thirties was outraged by that song. It took 80 years for someone to complain

Baseball has its own original sin. It took Jackie Robinson to cleanse it.

I agree, it did. and Frankly, it still is sinning... How long did it take the Cleveland Indians to get rid of this shit!

View attachment 258582

That said, making an example out of one singer no one really cares about anymore, probably a lot easier than changing a whole industry.

Baby steps. Baby steps.

I think the Indians still use Chief Wahoo

A grotesque charicature

 

[rightwinger]

But millions DO care Joe. Aside from the complete disregard of her family which you seem to exhibit with what appears to be a pretty cold statement, tearing down this nation's history is what enemies do. I consider anyone wanting to wipe out American history an enemy of the U.S. Kate Smith was an icon in her time, was not racist and contributed heavily to the war effort that was mounted by this country to help rid the world of probably the most racist regime in modern history. To now claim that she was a racist, remove her statue and re write history is a flagrant attempt to remove a part of American History. That is what enemies do Joe.

Guy, we re-evaluate history all the time. It's an ongoing science. Sorry, appearing at a few USO tours did not win the war. Those guys were probably thinking, "Bring out the Showgirls!!!"

She sang racist songs... She took money for doing so.

Loving your country means evaluating it's past, saying, "Yup, this is something we did wrong, we need to atone for it."

Come on Joe, provide some PROOF that Kate was a racist instead of 'babbling' about YOUR opinion of history.

She sang a song about 'That's why the darkies were born". The Darkies didn't care for it all that much, for some reason.

What’s the story behind those Kate Smith songs with racist lyrics?

But “Darkies” and “Pickaninny” aren’t the only examples of Smith being associated with regressive racial attitudes that are now viewed as grossly offensive, even if they were acceptable to a white audience at the time. In 1939, an advertisement for a Smith cookbook used a “Mammy Doll” caricature, depicting black women as eager-to-please servants.

1939 was Gone with the Wind where Mammy won an Oscar. Aunt Jemima was a mammy figure right up till the 60s.
Was Kate racist? Sure she was
So was everyone else in her era

It wasn’t till the mid 60s that we got rid of Jim Crow

 

[2aguy]

But millions DO care Joe. Aside from the complete disregard of her family which you seem to exhibit with what appears to be a pretty cold statement, tearing down this nation's history is what enemies do. I consider anyone wanting to wipe out American history an enemy of the U.S. Kate Smith was an icon in her time, was not racist and contributed heavily to the war effort that was mounted by this country to help rid the world of probably the most racist regime in modern history. To now claim that she was a racist, remove her statue and re write history is a flagrant attempt to remove a part of American History. That is what enemies do Joe.

Guy, we re-evaluate history all the time. It's an ongoing science. Sorry, appearing at a few USO tours did not win the war. Those guys were probably thinking, "Bring out the Showgirls!!!"

She sang racist songs... She took money for doing so.

Loving your country means evaluating it's past, saying, "Yup, this is something we did wrong, we need to atone for it."

Come on Joe, provide some PROOF that Kate was a racist instead of 'babbling' about YOUR opinion of history.

She sang a song about 'That's why the darkies were born". The Darkies didn't care for it all that much, for some reason.

What’s the story behind those Kate Smith songs with racist lyrics?

But “Darkies” and “Pickaninny” aren’t the only examples of Smith being associated with regressive racial attitudes that are now viewed as grossly offensive, even if they were acceptable to a white audience at the time. In 1939, an advertisement for a Smith cookbook used a “Mammy Doll” caricature, depicting black women as eager-to-please servants.

1939 was Gone with the Wind where Mammy won an Oscar. Aunt Jemima was a mammy figure right up till the 60s.
Was Kate racist? Sure she was
So was everyone else in her era

It wasn’t till the mid 60s that we got rid of Jim Crow

It wasn’t till the mid 60s that we got rid of Jim Crow

and the democrat party is still mad about that....They fought to keep Jim Crow till the bitter end...

 

[rightwinger]

But millions DO care Joe. Aside from the complete disregard of her family which you seem to exhibit with what appears to be a pretty cold statement, tearing down this nation's history is what enemies do. I consider anyone wanting to wipe out American history an enemy of the U.S. Kate Smith was an icon in her time, was not racist and contributed heavily to the war effort that was mounted by this country to help rid the world of probably the most racist regime in modern history. To now claim that she was a racist, remove her statue and re write history is a flagrant attempt to remove a part of American History. That is what enemies do Joe.

Guy, we re-evaluate history all the time. It's an ongoing science. Sorry, appearing at a few USO tours did not win the war. Those guys were probably thinking, "Bring out the Showgirls!!!"

She sang racist songs... She took money for doing so.

Loving your country means evaluating it's past, saying, "Yup, this is something we did wrong, we need to atone for it."

Come on Joe, provide some PROOF that Kate was a racist instead of 'babbling' about YOUR opinion of history.

She sang a song about 'That's why the darkies were born". The Darkies didn't care for it all that much, for some reason.

What’s the story behind those Kate Smith songs with racist lyrics?

But “Darkies” and “Pickaninny” aren’t the only examples of Smith being associated with regressive racial attitudes that are now viewed as grossly offensive, even if they were acceptable to a white audience at the time. In 1939, an advertisement for a Smith cookbook used a “Mammy Doll” caricature, depicting black women as eager-to-please servants.

1939 was Gone with the Wind where Mammy won an Oscar. Aunt Jemima was a mammy figure right up till the 60s.
Was Kate racist? Sure she was
So was everyone else in her era

It wasn’t till the mid 60s that we got rid of Jim Crow

It wasn’t till the mid 60s that we got rid of Jim Crow

and the democrat party is still mad about that....They fought to keep Jim Crow till the bitter end...

Can you show me any Southern Republicans who campaigned against Jim Crow?
I can show you northern Democrats

Jim Crow was a southern institution not a political party institution

 

[2aguy]

But millions DO care Joe. Aside from the complete disregard of her family which you seem to exhibit with what appears to be a pretty cold statement, tearing down this nation's history is what enemies do. I consider anyone wanting to wipe out American history an enemy of the U.S. Kate Smith was an icon in her time, was not racist and contributed heavily to the war effort that was mounted by this country to help rid the world of probably the most racist regime in modern history. To now claim that she was a racist, remove her statue and re write history is a flagrant attempt to remove a part of American History. That is what enemies do Joe.

Guy, we re-evaluate history all the time. It's an ongoing science. Sorry, appearing at a few USO tours did not win the war. Those guys were probably thinking, "Bring out the Showgirls!!!"

She sang racist songs... She took money for doing so.

Loving your country means evaluating it's past, saying, "Yup, this is something we did wrong, we need to atone for it."

Come on Joe, provide some PROOF that Kate was a racist instead of 'babbling' about YOUR opinion of history.

She sang a song about 'That's why the darkies were born". The Darkies didn't care for it all that much, for some reason.

What’s the story behind those Kate Smith songs with racist lyrics?

But “Darkies” and “Pickaninny” aren’t the only examples of Smith being associated with regressive racial attitudes that are now viewed as grossly offensive, even if they were acceptable to a white audience at the time. In 1939, an advertisement for a Smith cookbook used a “Mammy Doll” caricature, depicting black women as eager-to-please servants.

1939 was Gone with the Wind where Mammy won an Oscar. Aunt Jemima was a mammy figure right up till the 60s.
Was Kate racist? Sure she was
So was everyone else in her era

It wasn’t till the mid 60s that we got rid of Jim Crow

It wasn’t till the mid 60s that we got rid of Jim Crow

and the democrat party is still mad about that....They fought to keep Jim Crow till the bitter end...

Can you show me any Southern Republicans who campaigned against Jim Crow?
I can show you northern Democrats

Jim Crow was a southern institution not a political party institution

The democrat party fought for and supported Jim Crow.....that is a fact.

 

[rightwinger]

But millions DO care Joe. Aside from the complete disregard of her family which you seem to exhibit with what appears to be a pretty cold statement, tearing down this nation's history is what enemies do. I consider anyone wanting to wipe out American history an enemy of the U.S. Kate Smith was an icon in her time, was not racist and contributed heavily to the war effort that was mounted by this country to help rid the world of probably the most racist regime in modern history. To now claim that she was a racist, remove her statue and re write history is a flagrant attempt to remove a part of American History. That is what enemies do Joe.

Guy, we re-evaluate history all the time. It's an ongoing science. Sorry, appearing at a few USO tours did not win the war. Those guys were probably thinking, "Bring out the Showgirls!!!"

She sang racist songs... She took money for doing so.

Loving your country means evaluating it's past, saying, "Yup, this is something we did wrong, we need to atone for it."

Come on Joe, provide some PROOF that Kate was a racist instead of 'babbling' about YOUR opinion of history.

She sang a song about 'That's why the darkies were born". The Darkies didn't care for it all that much, for some reason.

What’s the story behind those Kate Smith songs with racist lyrics?

But “Darkies” and “Pickaninny” aren’t the only examples of Smith being associated with regressive racial attitudes that are now viewed as grossly offensive, even if they were acceptable to a white audience at the time. In 1939, an advertisement for a Smith cookbook used a “Mammy Doll” caricature, depicting black women as eager-to-please servants.

1939 was Gone with the Wind where Mammy won an Oscar. Aunt Jemima was a mammy figure right up till the 60s.
Was Kate racist? Sure she was
So was everyone else in her era

It wasn’t till the mid 60s that we got rid of Jim Crow

It wasn’t till the mid 60s that we got rid of Jim Crow

and the democrat party is still mad about that....They fought to keep Jim Crow till the bitter end...

Can you show me any Southern Republicans who campaigned against Jim Crow?
I can show you northern Democrats

Jim Crow was a southern institution not a political party institution

The democrat party fought for and supported Jim Crow.....that is a fact.

All southerners supported Jim Crow regardless of party ...that is a fact

 

[Leo123]

She sang a song about 'That's why the darkies were born". The Darkies didn't care for it all that much, for some reason.

What’s the story behind those Kate Smith songs with racist lyrics?

But “Darkies” and “Pickaninny” aren’t the only examples of Smith being associated with regressive racial attitudes that are now viewed as grossly offensive, even if they were acceptable to a white audience at the time. In 1939, an advertisement for a Smith cookbook used a “Mammy Doll” caricature, depicting black women as eager-to-please servants.

BFD, ever heard of Aunt Jemima? Bet you've eaten those pancakes or even 'Uncle Ben's Rice?' Yes, you too can be a racist!!!

 

[JoeB131]

1939 was Gone with the Wind where Mammy won an Oscar. Aunt Jemima was a mammy figure right up till the 60s.
Was Kate racist? Sure she was
So was everyone else in her era

It wasn’t till the mid 60s that we got rid of Jim Crow

The "Everyone was racist" doesn't make it okay.

and the democrat party is still mad about that....They fought to keep Jim Crow till the bitter end...

Really? Last time I checked, the guy who signed the Civil Rights bills of 1964 and 1968 was a Democrat. And the racists in the South all left the Democrats, where the Republicans welcomed them with open arms.

Even this creepy old guy.

 

[JoeB131]

BFD, ever heard of Aunt Jemima? Bet you've eaten those pancakes or even 'Uncle Ben's Rice?' Yes, you too can be a racist!!!

Actually, don't eat pancakes... too fattening.

Here's the thing. Those big corporations got rid of those racist caricatures. Which is how Aunt G went from being a "Mammy" to a middle class housewife. Imagine that.

You know what else you won't see? Those old Tom and Jerry cartoons with "Mammy-Two Shoes".

Some might call this "sanitizing" history in the mold of Orwell's 1984. I think it's a recognition that some things we did in the past are seen as insensitive or mean-spirited today.

So today, we aren't listening to Kate Smith singing a song she didn't write because other songs she sang but didn't write had some truly insensitive and mean-spirited lyrics.

I'm kind of okay with that.

 

[rightwinger]

1939 was Gone with the Wind where Mammy won an Oscar. Aunt Jemima was a mammy figure right up till the 60s.
Was Kate racist? Sure she was
So was everyone else in her era

It wasn’t till the mid 60s that we got rid of Jim Crow

The "Everyone was racist" doesn't make it okay.

and the democrat party is still mad about that....They fought to keep Jim Crow till the bitter end...

Really? Last time I checked, the guy who signed the Civil Rights bills of 1964 and 1968 was a Democrat. And the racists in the South all left the Democrats, where the Republicans welcomed them with open arms.

Even this creepy old guy.

View attachment 258778

Yes everyone was racist compared to today’s values

 

[rightwinger]

BFD, ever heard of Aunt Jemima? Bet you've eaten those pancakes or even 'Uncle Ben's Rice?' Yes, you too can be a racist!!!

Actually, don't eat pancakes... too fattening.

Here's the thing. Those big corporations got rid of those racist caricatures. Which is how Aunt G went from being a "Mammy" to a middle class housewife. Imagine that.

View attachment 258779

You know what else you won't see? Those old Tom and Jerry cartoons with "Mammy-Two Shoes".

Some might call this "sanitizing" history in the mold of Orwell's 1984. I think it's a recognition that some things we did in the past are seen as insensitive or mean-spirited today.

So today, we aren't listening to Kate Smith singing a song she didn't write because other songs she sang but didn't write had some truly insensitive and mean-spirited lyrics.

I'm kind of okay with that.

So what do we do?

Condemn everyone who watched those shows or laughed at them?

Society was different then, condemn the society as a whole, not those who were members

 

[Leo123]

BFD, ever heard of Aunt Jemima? Bet you've eaten those pancakes or even 'Uncle Ben's Rice?' Yes, you too can be a racist!!!

Actually, don't eat pancakes... too fattening.

Here's the thing. Those big corporations got rid of those racist caricatures. Which is how Aunt G went from being a "Mammy" to a middle class housewife. Imagine that.

View attachment 258779

You know what else you won't see? Those old Tom and Jerry cartoons with "Mammy-Two Shoes".

Some might call this "sanitizing" history in the mold of Orwell's 1984. I think it's a recognition that some things we did in the past are seen as insensitive or mean-spirited today.

So today, we aren't listening to Kate Smith singing a song she didn't write because other songs she sang but didn't write had some truly insensitive and mean-spirited lyrics.

I'm kind of okay with that.

Kate Smith is not a racist caricature, she sung songs AGAINST racism.

 

[Leo123]

BFD, ever heard of Aunt Jemima? Bet you've eaten those pancakes or even 'Uncle Ben's Rice?' Yes, you too can be a racist!!!

Actually, don't eat pancakes... too fattening.

Here's the thing. Those big corporations got rid of those racist caricatures. Which is how Aunt G went from being a "Mammy" to a middle class housewife. Imagine that.

View attachment 258779

You know what else you won't see? Those old Tom and Jerry cartoons with "Mammy-Two Shoes".

Some might call this "sanitizing" history in the mold of Orwell's 1984. I think it's a recognition that some things we did in the past are seen as insensitive or mean-spirited today.

So today, we aren't listening to Kate Smith singing a song she didn't write because other songs she sang but didn't write had some truly insensitive and mean-spirited lyrics.

I'm kind of okay with that.

So what do we do?

Condemn everyone who watched those shows or laughed at them?

Society was different then, condemn the society as a whole, not those who were members

I used to love Amos and Andy. I knew they are actors and it was a comedy show as most folks did. The actors themselves enjoyed their roles too. Race baiters killed the re runs. You Tube has a good documentary on the show.