If Jesus couldn't keep HIMSELF out of trouble...

[logical4u]

Yes, naturally I misunderstood all that esoteric writing because - drum roll - YOU said so.

So much for your logic.

No, you misunderstood all the writing because it doesn't support what you claim about it.

And you've also misunderstood everything everyone here has said to correct your misunderstanding.

Deliberately, I expect. Because you can't tolerate the idea of a power higher than yourself.

Nature is more powerful than I am, Davey. I can't wipe out whole cities the way tsunamis can.

And if there is some supreme being, why should Jesus have had any different a relationship with it than most other people?

You answered your own question: Yeshua could command nature, and did.

 

[Wonky Pundit]

No, you misunderstood all the writing because it doesn't support what you claim about it.

And you've also misunderstood everything everyone here has said to correct your misunderstanding.

Deliberately, I expect. Because you can't tolerate the idea of a power higher than yourself.

Nature is more powerful than I am, Davey. I can't wipe out whole cities the way tsunamis can.

And if there is some supreme being, why should Jesus have had any different a relationship with it than most other people?

You answered your own question: Yeshua could command nature, and did.

How do you know, without citing an account written long after his death?

 

[Sky Dancer]

Bottom line. The Bible isn't for everyone.

 

[Wonky Pundit]

Reading and comprehension are two, very different things.

Yes, naturally I misunderstood all that esoteric writing because - drum roll - YOU said so.

So much for your logic.

Okay then, you understand that the Lord created man and worked with the Hebrews to improve them spiritually?
You also understand that a covenant was set with Abraham, and renewed with Israel?
You understand that the Savior, the Christ was prosephized throughout the OT?
You understand that King David described how it would feel to die by crucifixion?
You understand that in the OT, the sins of the father were passed to his son?
You understand that in the new Covenant, the Lord will be written onto men's hearts, and there will be no need for someone to tell you there is a Lord?
You understand that covenants required a blood sacrifice?
You understand the Yeshua was the "priest" (he was wearing the official robes when he was taken into custody), He performed the ceremony of passover, He was the "sacrifice", and when He was finished, He said: it is done?
You understand that when the apostle that Yeshua loved went into the tomb, he had no understanding of why the burial cloths were there, but the Lord wasn't?
You understand that the apostles were terrified, and in hiding when Yeshua appeared to a room full of people (several witnesses)?
You understand that Yeshua called on the Holy Spirit to empower the apostles?
You understand the seven gifts of the Holy Spirit: Wisdom, Council, Understanding, Piety, Joy in the Fear of the Lord, Knowledge, and Fortitude?
You understand that these apostles went out into a hostile world to witness what they had learned?
You understand that these people and other witnesses were ridiculed, some were tortured, and some were murdered all for their faith?
You understand that none of the apostles gained (monetarily) from spreading the Good News?
You understand from the works/acts/teachings of these men, that Christianity was born?

You understand that you left out a couple of important details?

For one thing, the OT prophecies did not refer specifically to Yeshua. A good many believers (still called Jews) maintain that the Savior is yet to come.

For another, the only thing that's known about Yeshua with any certainty is that he ran a Jewish ministry - just one of a great many - in first-century Palestine. Those who believed him to be the Savior went on to be identified as Christians.

The stories about magic and ghosts are in all probability just that: stories.

 

[Wonky Pundit]

Bottom line. The Bible isn't for everyone.

It's great literature, but a lot of harm has come from making it into more than that.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Bottom line. The Bible isn't for everyone.

It's great literature, but a lot of harm has come from making it into more than that.

A lot of harm has come from considering it literal and absolute truth.

 

[logical4u]

Nature is more powerful than I am, Davey. I can't wipe out whole cities the way tsunamis can.

And if there is some supreme being, why should Jesus have had any different a relationship with it than most other people?

You answered your own question: Yeshua could command nature, and did.

How do you know, without citing an account written long after his death?

It is funny, you are willing to believe any "history" written by one man about those that died before they were born or did not know. When there are twelve witnesses that were blessed by the Holy Spirit and more witnesses to their "acts" wrote down what they saw or people they knew saw, and all those "stories" match, you want to say: no, it couldn't possibly be true. When thousands and thousands of people that believed were tortured or murdered, they did not relent, they did not deny Him. Yet you say, it could not be true. You, who would break under torture (as most of us would today), want to say: those people were silly.
Who is silly, those who believed to the point of being put to death because of the promises He made (and from witnesses afterwards, kept), or a single person that says: I read the Bible, but it is all false?
I have told other people this, and have never heard back (maybe it scares them). When you are in a room of people, doing things that are not particularly "good", bring up Yeshua, not in a demeaning way, but as an open discussion. Observe what happens. Listen to the tone of the voices change. If you see auras, watch what happens to them. Watch the pain in the faces melt. It is amazing. Back in the day when I liked to mess with the stoners, I would do it, it always put me in a state of wonder. If you are not convinced, do something similar at a later time, no other person mentioned has the same effect. It isn't hard to do, and it may give you cause to think: why do people react like that? Why does the very feeling in the room change?
You want proof that you can see and touch. What did Yeshua say to Thomas?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Not at all. . Do you have a problem with people whose first language isn't english?

You throw that out as an insult. A person who speaks more than one language is to be admired.

It's only an insult when I know perfectly well that English IS your primary language. People who speak, read, and write their mother tongue as though they just learned it last year are NOT to be admired.

Ah, it's that insult habit of yours.

SOMEONE in the world needs to tell the truth and call 'em like they see 'em. Precious few people are willing to risk the ire of their fellow man by being honest.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Done. I've read the Bible and many interpretations of many books and chapters therein. Your turn.

Reading and comprehension are two, very different things.

Yes, naturally I misunderstood all that esoteric writing because - drum roll - YOU said so.

So much for your logic.

Actually, you misunderstood all that not-particularly-esoteric writing because you started a thread by questioning and mis-stating a basic tenet of Christianity that ten-year-olds in Sunday School don't have trouble grasping.

 

[logical4u]

Yes, naturally I misunderstood all that esoteric writing because - drum roll - YOU said so.

So much for your logic.

Okay then, you understand that the Lord created man and worked with the Hebrews to improve them spiritually?
You also understand that a covenant was set with Abraham, and renewed with Israel?
You understand that the Savior, the Christ was prosephized throughout the OT?
You understand that King David described how it would feel to die by crucifixion?
You understand that in the OT, the sins of the father were passed to his son?
You understand that in the new Covenant, the Lord will be written onto men's hearts, and there will be no need for someone to tell you there is a Lord?
You understand that covenants required a blood sacrifice?
You understand the Yeshua was the "priest" (he was wearing the official robes when he was taken into custody), He performed the ceremony of passover, He was the "sacrifice", and when He was finished, He said: it is done?
You understand that when the apostle that Yeshua loved went into the tomb, he had no understanding of why the burial cloths were there, but the Lord wasn't?
You understand that the apostles were terrified, and in hiding when Yeshua appeared to a room full of people (several witnesses)?
You understand that Yeshua called on the Holy Spirit to empower the apostles?
You understand the seven gifts of the Holy Spirit: Wisdom, Council, Understanding, Piety, Joy in the Fear of the Lord, Knowledge, and Fortitude?
You understand that these apostles went out into a hostile world to witness what they had learned?
You understand that these people and other witnesses were ridiculed, some were tortured, and some were murdered all for their faith?
You understand that none of the apostles gained (monetarily) from spreading the Good News?
You understand from the works/acts/teachings of these men, that Christianity was born?

You understand that you left out a couple of important details?

For one thing, the OT prophecies did not refer specifically to Yeshua. A good many believers (still called Jews) maintain that the Savior is yet to come.

For another, the only thing that's known about Yeshua with any certainty is that he ran a Jewish ministry - just one of a great many - in first-century Palestine. Those who believed him to be the Savior went on to be identified as Christians.

The stories about magic and ghosts are in all probability just that: stories.

I asked you if you comprehended the Bible. You told me you read it. If you want details, go to the Book.

All the OT prophesies were not about Yeshua. Some are being fullfilled in this century.

You have more information on Yeshua than you do on most historical figures (and from different sources), yet you want to pretend that it is all "made up".

Most of the people that don't believe in miracles and "ghosts" are trying to repress memories of some experience they have had with one or the other IMHO.

 

[logical4u]

Bottom line. The Bible isn't for everyone.

It's great literature, but a lot of harm has come from making it into more than that.

A lot of harm has come from considering it literal and absolute truth.

Says the person that preaches islam is goodness, nuff said.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Yes, naturally I misunderstood all that esoteric writing because - drum roll - YOU said so.

So much for your logic.

No, you misunderstood all the writing because it doesn't support what you claim about it.

And you've also misunderstood everything everyone here has said to correct your misunderstanding.

Deliberately, I expect. Because you can't tolerate the idea of a power higher than yourself.

Nature is more powerful than I am, Davey. I can't wipe out whole cities the way tsunamis can.

And if there is some supreme being, why should Jesus have had any different a relationship with it than most other people?

Because DUH! He wasn't "most other people".

 

[Cecilie1200]

Nature is more powerful than I am, Davey. I can't wipe out whole cities the way tsunamis can.

And if there is some supreme being, why should Jesus have had any different a relationship with it than most other people?

You answered your own question: Yeshua could command nature, and did.

How do you know, without citing an account written long after his death?

How do YOU know who wrote it and when? Were you there?

Basically, it's just a matter of who we trust more: the authors of the Bible, or you?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Bottom line. The Bible isn't for everyone.

It's great literature, but a lot of harm has come from making it into more than that.

A lot more harm has come from trying to ignore it and do away with it.

 

[Cecilie1200]

You answered your own question: Yeshua could command nature, and did.

How do you know, without citing an account written long after his death?

It is funny, you are willing to believe any "history" written by one man about those that died before they were born or did not know. When there are twelve witnesses that were blessed by the Holy Spirit and more witnesses to their "acts" wrote down what they saw or people they knew saw, and all those "stories" match, you want to say: no, it couldn't possibly be true. When thousands and thousands of people that believed were tortured or murdered, they did not relent, they did not deny Him. Yet you say, it could not be true. You, who would break under torture (as most of us would today), want to say: those people were silly.
Who is silly, those who believed to the point of being put to death because of the promises He made (and from witnesses afterwards, kept), or a single person that says: I read the Bible, but it is all false?
I have told other people this, and have never heard back (maybe it scares them). When you are in a room of people, doing things that are not particularly "good", bring up Yeshua, not in a demeaning way, but as an open discussion. Observe what happens. Listen to the tone of the voices change. If you see auras, watch what happens to them. Watch the pain in the faces melt. It is amazing. Back in the day when I liked to mess with the stoners, I would do it, it always put me in a state of wonder. If you are not convinced, do something similar at a later time, no other person mentioned has the same effect. It isn't hard to do, and it may give you cause to think: why do people react like that? Why does the very feeling in the room change?
You want proof that you can see and touch. What did Yeshua say to Thomas?

A good point. How many of the people writing the history books routinely used in classes today were actually present - or even alive - when the events described happened?

 

[Wonky Pundit]

Okay then, you understand that the Lord created man and worked with the Hebrews to improve them spiritually?
You also understand that a covenant was set with Abraham, and renewed with Israel?
You understand that the Savior, the Christ was prosephized throughout the OT?
You understand that King David described how it would feel to die by crucifixion?
You understand that in the OT, the sins of the father were passed to his son?
You understand that in the new Covenant, the Lord will be written onto men's hearts, and there will be no need for someone to tell you there is a Lord?
You understand that covenants required a blood sacrifice?
You understand the Yeshua was the "priest" (he was wearing the official robes when he was taken into custody), He performed the ceremony of passover, He was the "sacrifice", and when He was finished, He said: it is done?
You understand that when the apostle that Yeshua loved went into the tomb, he had no understanding of why the burial cloths were there, but the Lord wasn't?
You understand that the apostles were terrified, and in hiding when Yeshua appeared to a room full of people (several witnesses)?
You understand that Yeshua called on the Holy Spirit to empower the apostles?
You understand the seven gifts of the Holy Spirit: Wisdom, Council, Understanding, Piety, Joy in the Fear of the Lord, Knowledge, and Fortitude?
You understand that these apostles went out into a hostile world to witness what they had learned?
You understand that these people and other witnesses were ridiculed, some were tortured, and some were murdered all for their faith?
You understand that none of the apostles gained (monetarily) from spreading the Good News?
You understand from the works/acts/teachings of these men, that Christianity was born?

You understand that you left out a couple of important details?

For one thing, the OT prophecies did not refer specifically to Yeshua. A good many believers (still called Jews) maintain that the Savior is yet to come.

For another, the only thing that's known about Yeshua with any certainty is that he ran a Jewish ministry - just one of a great many - in first-century Palestine. Those who believed him to be the Savior went on to be identified as Christians.

The stories about magic and ghosts are in all probability just that: stories.

I asked you if you comprehended the Bible. You told me you read it. If you want details, go to the Book.

All the OT prophesies were not about Yeshua. Some are being fullfilled in this century.

You have more information on Yeshua than you do on most historical figures (and from different sources), yet you want to pretend that it is all "made up".

Not pretending that at all. Most of the people who wrote accounts about Yeshua probably believed them to the core. That doesn't mean their accounts were accurate.

 

[logical4u]

You understand that you left out a couple of important details?

For one thing, the OT prophecies did not refer specifically to Yeshua. A good many believers (still called Jews) maintain that the Savior is yet to come.

For another, the only thing that's known about Yeshua with any certainty is that he ran a Jewish ministry - just one of a great many - in first-century Palestine. Those who believed him to be the Savior went on to be identified as Christians.

The stories about magic and ghosts are in all probability just that: stories.

I asked you if you comprehended the Bible. You told me you read it. If you want details, go to the Book.

All the OT prophesies were not about Yeshua. Some are being fullfilled in this century.

You have more information on Yeshua than you do on most historical figures (and from different sources), yet you want to pretend that it is all "made up".

Not pretending that at all. Most of the people who wrote accounts about Yeshua probably believed them to the core. That doesn't mean their accounts were accurate.

From that statement, I can say that you don't believe any of the "written" history unless there are signed documents to back it up? You don't believe in the ancient cultures because there is no "accurate" accounts? You don't believe anything written about the middle ages because there are no "accurate" accounts?

I am so relieved, because for sure you can't "believe" in evolution, because there certainly aren't any "accurate" accounts of any of that BS.

 

[Wonky Pundit]

I asked you if you comprehended the Bible. You told me you read it. If you want details, go to the Book.

All the OT prophesies were not about Yeshua. Some are being fullfilled in this century.

You have more information on Yeshua than you do on most historical figures (and from different sources), yet you want to pretend that it is all "made up".

Not pretending that at all. Most of the people who wrote accounts about Yeshua probably believed them to the core. That doesn't mean their accounts were accurate.

From that statement, I can say that you don't believe any of the "written" history unless there are signed documents to back it up? You don't believe in the ancient cultures because there is no "accurate" accounts? You don't believe anything written about the middle ages because there are no "accurate" accounts?

I am so relieved, because for sure you can't "believe" in evolution, because there certainly aren't any "accurate" accounts of any of that BS.

Everyone is prone to error, and of course I'm not going to take just one historian's word at face value.

Most people look at corroborating evidence when they want to determine whether something is (at least probably) true. And yes, there's all sorts of non-written evidence about ancient cultures, the medieval period, and even evidence that supports Darwin's theory (imagine that!)

And surprise, that doesn't mean that Darwin explained it all perfectly, only that it's the best explanation for the evidence that has been developed so far.

 

[daveman]

Yes, naturally I misunderstood all that esoteric writing because - drum roll - YOU said so.

So much for your logic.

No, you misunderstood all the writing because it doesn't support what you claim about it.

And you've also misunderstood everything everyone here has said to correct your misunderstanding.

Deliberately, I expect. Because you can't tolerate the idea of a power higher than yourself.

Nature is more powerful than I am, Davey. I can't wipe out whole cities the way tsunamis can.

Yet nature isn't sentient.

And if there is some supreme being, why should Jesus have had any different a relationship with it than most other people?

So...you DIDN'T read the Bible.

 

[daveman]

Bottom line. The Bible isn't for everyone.

It's great literature, but a lot of harm has come from making it into more than that.

And Communism, which is state-sponsored atheism, has killed a hundred million people.

Did you have a point?