If Jefferson founded Republican Party in 1793, liberalism has no place in our history

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The purchase doubled the land size of the United States and that area would be turned into states with people, lots of people, people needing governments. Did it double the size of government, probably not, but certainly enlarged.

dear a larger govt is not one that represents more people but one that assumes more power over each individual! If the USA took over North America it would not necessarily mean a larger govt in the sense that conservatives care large govt.

In fact, Jefferson wanted the territory so everyone could be an independent framer farther away from the, in effect, smaller central govt and its control. Sorry to break it to you.

 

[regent]

The purchase doubled the land size of the United States and that area would be turned into states with people, lots of people, people needing governments. Did it double the size of government, probably not, but certainly enlarged.

dear a larger govt is not one that represents more people but one that assumes more power over each individual! If the USA took over North America it would not necessarily mean a larger govt in the sense that conservatives care large govt.

In fact, Jefferson wanted the territory so everyone could be an independent framer farther away from the, in effect, smaller central govt and its control. Sorry to break it to you.

Maybe your're right, but of the 14 states, six or so were the new states and they figured the Constitution gave them the right to elect new state governments, make Constitutions, pass laws and be just like the big boys. Jefferson may have told those new states, no new governments and no growth, but you know how states are, they never listen. so new governments came into being and all 14 grew bigger with time.

 

[Agit8r]

The purchase doubled the land size of the United States and that area would be turned into states with people, lots of people, people needing governments. Did it double the size of government, probably not, but certainly enlarged.

dear a larger govt is not one that represents more people but one that assumes more power over each individual! If the USA took over North America it would not necessarily mean a larger govt in the sense that conservatives care large govt.

In fact, Jefferson wanted the territory so everyone could be an independent framer farther away from the, in effect, smaller central govt and its control. Sorry to break it to you.

Well, the native peoples had NO formal government, so automatically it would be a larger government

 

[gipper]

The purchase doubled the land size of the United States and that area would be turned into states with people, lots of people, people needing governments. Did it double the size of government, probably not, but certainly enlarged.

dear a larger govt is not one that represents more people but one that assumes more power over each individual! If the USA took over North America it would not necessarily mean a larger govt in the sense that conservatives care large govt.

In fact, Jefferson wanted the territory so everyone could be an independent framer farther away from the, in effect, smaller central govt and its control. Sorry to break it to you.

I see your point, but you do not see mine.

I do not believe we NEED a centralized government at all. Eliminate it altogether and we will be much better off.

 

[regent]

The purchase doubled the land size of the United States and that area would be turned into states with people, lots of people, people needing governments. Did it double the size of government, probably not, but certainly enlarged.

dear a larger govt is not one that represents more people but one that assumes more power over each individual! If the USA took over North America it would not necessarily mean a larger govt in the sense that conservatives care large govt.

In fact, Jefferson wanted the territory so everyone could be an independent framer farther away from the, in effect, smaller central govt and its control. Sorry to break it to you.

I see your point, but you do not see mine.


I do not believe we NEED a centralized government at all. Eliminate it altogether and we will be much better off.

Your point is that we do not need a centralized government, but that like Jefferson's desire that America be a nation of farmers is also not to be.
If we double the size of America again with almost uninhabited land, government
will grow some more.

 

[Pogo]

If Jefferson founded Republican Party in 1793, liberalism has no place in our history

Sad but true, our liberals spied for Stalin's big liberal govt and never had any respect or understanding of Jeffersonian/Madisonian freedom from big liberal govt. In fact, our Constitution was little more than an attempt to make liberalism illegal in America.

Wow. How do you even get your pants on in the morning?

First, by the time the Republican Party was founded, Jefferson had been dead 28 years. Second, the fact that some political philosophy may match up here or not match up there doesn't mean they are or are not the same party. Third, the Constitution was hardly "making Liberalism illegal"; it was making Liberalism fly. Liberalism is the ingredient that birthed our Constitution and our country, like it or lump it. It was the whole new idea we were trying. What it was making illegal was the old system of the dominant state comprised of royal nobility and the church, and put it instead in the hands of "We the People". That is in fact what that phrase means.

You need to go back to square one. You got this thread in the correct forum, after that it was straight downhill.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

First, by the time the Republican Party was founded, Jefferson had been dead 28 years.

If Jefferson and Madison didn't found the Republican party in 1793 or so I'll pay you $10,000. Bet? What party do you think they founded?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

the Constitution was hardly "making Liberalism illegal"; it was making Liberalism fly

if liberalism means very very limited govt you are correct!!

here are some quotes from our founders to get you started. Welcome to your first lesson in American History:

That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves.

The path we have to pursue[when Jefferson was President ] is so quiet that we have nothing scarcely to propose to our Legislature."

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.

The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground-Thomas Jefferson

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

What it was making illegal was the old system of the dominant state comprised of royal nobility and the church, and put it instead in the hands of "We the People". That is in fact what that phrase means.

dear, if liberals beleive in govt having all the power how can we the people have power? Do you see why our liberals spied for Stalin and elected Obama with his 3 communist parents and voting record to left of Bernie Sanders?

-The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground-Thomas Jefferson.

Please notice that liberty and govt were seen as opposites by our Founders.

Welcome to your second lesson in American History.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

If we double the size of America again with almost uninhabited land, government
will grow some more.

As I said Jefferson purchased the land to get people farther away from the power of central govt, not to increase the power of the govt. You got it backwards

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

but you know how states are, they never listen. so new governments came into being and all 14 grew bigger with time.

well it is sadly true that they grew larger as did the Federal govt. This is due to the cancer of liberalism that has been the source of evil in human history!

 

[Pogo]

First, by the time the Republican Party was founded, Jefferson had been dead 28 years.

If Jefferson and Madison didn't found the Republican party in 1793 or so I'll pay you $10,000. Bet? What party do you think they founded?

The "Democratic-Republican" Party, which, like the Whigs and the Federalists, no longer exists and is unrelated to the current Republican Party, founded in 1854.

Pay up.

 

[Pogo]

the Constitution was hardly "making Liberalism illegal"; it was making Liberalism fly

if liberalism means very very limited govt you are correct!!

here are some quotes from our founders to get you started. Welcome to your first lesson in American History:

That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves.

The path we have to pursue[when Jefferson was President ] is so quiet that we have nothing scarcely to propose to our Legislature."

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.

The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground-Thomas Jefferson

You are clearly in no position to be giving me or anyone else lessons in American history.

What's more, we did all this a year ago and in the intervening time you haven't bothered to crack a history book.

 

[gipper]

dear a larger govt is not one that represents more people but one that assumes more power over each individual! If the USA took over North America it would not necessarily mean a larger govt in the sense that conservatives care large govt.

In fact, Jefferson wanted the territory so everyone could be an independent framer farther away from the, in effect, smaller central govt and its control. Sorry to break it to you.

I see your point, but you do not see mine.


I do not believe we NEED a centralized government at all. Eliminate it altogether and we will be much better off.

Your point is that we do not need a centralized government, but that like Jefferson's desire that America be a nation of farmers is also not to be.
If we double the size of America again with almost uninhabited land, government
will grow some more.

America does not need to double in geographic size for government to grow. Government growing is a certainty...like the sun raising in the East.

A great man said it well...long ago...too bad so many Americans are clueless...
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.

George Washington

 

[Agit8r]

I see your point, but you do not see mine.


I do not believe we NEED a centralized government at all. Eliminate it altogether and we will be much better off.

Your point is that we do not need a centralized government, but that like Jefferson's desire that America be a nation of farmers is also not to be.
If we double the size of America again with almost uninhabited land, government
will grow some more.

America does not need to double in geographic size for government to grow. Government growing is a certainty...like the sun raising in the East.

A great man said it well...long ago...too bad so many Americans are clueless...
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.

George Washington

And he also said:

"The Men who oppose a strong & energetic government are, in my opinion, narrow minded politicians"
-- George Washington; from letter to Alexander Hamilton (July 10, 1787)


And, yes; too bad so many Americans are clueless!

 

[gipper]

Your point is that we do not need a centralized government, but that like Jefferson's desire that America be a nation of farmers is also not to be.
If we double the size of America again with almost uninhabited land, government
will grow some more.

America does not need to double in geographic size for government to grow. Government growing is a certainty...like the sun raising in the East.

A great man said it well...long ago...too bad so many Americans are clueless...
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.

George Washington

And he also said:

"The Men who oppose a strong & energetic government are, in my opinion, narrow minded politicians"
-- George Washington; from letter to Alexander Hamilton (July 10, 1787)


And, yes; too bad so many Americans are clueless!

That quote only proves that even great men can be wrong occasionally. However, if you believe he meant by that statement, he would find acceptable the uncontrolled omnipresent government we have today, you need to think again.

A short analysis of the history of government, throughout human history, proves it to be the most detrimental force ever devised by man. It is a simple fact. The history of the 20th century alone, proves this fact conclusively.

 

[Agit8r]

Jefferson wanted the territory so everyone could be an independent framer farther away from the, in effect, smaller central govt...

No, and no:

"I am also much pleased with the proposition to the states to invest Congress with the regulation of their trade... I am very differently affected towards the new plan of opening our land office by dividing the lands among the states and selling them at vendue. It separates still more the interests of the states which ought to be made joint in every possible instance in order to cultivate the idea of our being one nation, and to multiply the instances in which the people shall look up to Congress as their head. And when the states get their portions they will either fool them away, or make a job of it to serve individuals"
-- Thomas Jefferson; from letter to James Monroe (June 17, 1785)


"manufactures are now as necessary to our independence as to our comfort; and if those who quote me as of a different opinion, will keep pace with me in purchasing nothing foreign where an equivalent of domestic fabric can be obtained, without regard to difference of price, it will not be our fault if we do not soon have a supply at home equal to our demand"
-- Thomas Jefferson; from letter to Benjamin Austin (Jan 9, 1816)

 

[regent]

Certainly Jefferson changed some of his views as he and the nation aged. His terms as president also had an effect on his perspective. I usually check the dates on his quotes to see where he was at, at the time of the quote.

 

[JakeStarkey]

First, by the time the Republican Party was founded, Jefferson had been dead 28 years.

If Jefferson and Madison didn't found the Republican party in 1793 or so I'll pay you $10,000. Bet? What party do you think they founded?

Eddy has already paid me $10K twice for proving to him and making him admit that Jefferson founded the Democratic-Republican Party.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.

George Washington

and that makes liberals anti-American which explains why they spied for Stalin when he was slowing starving 60 million to death and why they elected Obama.