If Jefferson founded Republican Party in 1793, liberalism has no place in our history

[Agit8r]

How many of these lame Jefferson was a Republican threads has Eddie started now?

Been a while but good to see him back to his old self trying to sneak the same crap through

sadly a liberal can call names but lacks the IQ to say why it is "crap"

I'll give you a few hints:

"The Gothic idea that we are to look backwards instead of forwards for the improvement of the human mind, and to recur to the annals of our ancestors for what is most perfect in government, in religion and in learning, is worthy of those bigots in religion & government, by whom it has been recommended, & whose purposes it would answer."
-- Thomas Jefferson; from letter to Dr. Joseph Priestly (Jan, 27, 1800)


"The earth is given as a common stock for man to labor and live on. If for the encouragement of industry we allow it to be appropriated, we must take care that other employment be provided to those excluded from the appropriation."
-- Thomas Jefferson; letter to James Madison (1785)


"Instead, therefore, of putting the Bible and Testament into the hands of the children at an age when their judgments are not sufficiently matured for religious inquiries, their memories may here be stored with the most useful facts"
-- Thomas Jefferson; from 'Notes on Virginia' Query XIV


"Our present enemy... may burn New York, indeed, by her ships and congreve rockets, in which case we must burn the city of London by hired incendiaries, of which her starving manufacturers will furnish abundance. A people in such desperation as to demand of their government aut parcem, aut furcam, either bread or the gallows, will not reject the same alternative when offered by a foreign hand. Hunger will make them brave every risk for bread."
-- Thomas Jefferson; from letter to Thaddeus Kosciusko (June 28, 1812)


"Although I do not, with some enthusiasts, believe that the human condition will ever advance to such a state of perfection as that there shall no longer be pain or vice in the world, yet I believe it susceptible of much improvement, and most of all, in matters of government and religion; and that the diffusion of knowledge among the people is to be the instrument by which it is to be effected."
-- Thomas Jefferson; from letter to P. S. Dupont de Nemours (April 24, 1816)


"The tone of your letters had for some time given me pain, on account of the extreme warmth with which they censured the proceedings of the Jacobins of France... It was necessary to use the arm of the people, a machine not quite so blind as balls and bombs, but blind to a certain degree... My own affections have been deeply wounded by some of the martyrs to this cause, but rather than it should have failed, I would have seen half the earth desolated."
-- Thomas Jefferson; from letter to William Short (January 3, 1793)


"The appeal to the rights of man, which had been made in the U S. was taken up by France, first of the European nations. From her the spirit has spread over those of the South. The tyrants of the North have allied indeed against it, but it is irresistible. Their opposition will only multiply it's millions of human victims; their own satellites will catch it, and the condition of man thro' the civilized world will be finally and greatly ameliorated."
-- Thomas Jefferson; from his Autobiography (1821)


"the great mass of the articles on which impost is paid are foreign luxuries, purchased by those only who are rich enough to afford themselves the use of them. Their patriotism would certainly prefer its continuance and application to the great purposes of the public education, roads, rivers, canals, and such other objects of public improvement as it may be thought proper to add to the constitutional enumeration of Federal powers."
-- Thomas Jefferson; from 6th State of the Union Address (Dec. 2, 1806)

 

[Peach]

Sad but true, our liberals spied for Stalin's big liberal govt and never had any respect or understanding of Jeffersonian/Madisonian freedom from big liberal govt. In fact, our Constitution was little more than an attempt to make liberalism illegal in America.

Both parties claim Jefferson began their party, Democrats hold "Jefferson/Jackson"(?) days, and Republicans claim Jefferson. If Jefferson founded the Republican Party however, Adams was the first Democrat; as Adams was an abolitionist, that does create some questions.

*Jackson isn't an encouraging "founder", known as the "INDIAN KILLER", I'd prefer "Jefferson/Truman" day myself.

 

[JWBooth]

Other than the rhetorical use of the name Republican there is no tie from Jefferson to the modern Republican party.
The early Republicans became the Democratic Republicans which became the Democrat Party.
Federalists and Tories became Whigs, Whigs and Know Nothings became Republicans.

Along the way both groups have changed their basic philosophies a few times.
Now they both represent the all encompassing corporate state while feigning concern for other constituencies.

 

[gipper]

Other than the rhetorical use of the name Republican there is no tie from Jefferson to the modern Republican party.
The early Republicans became the Democratic Republicans which became the Democrat Party.
Federalists and Tories became Whigs, Whigs and Know Nothings became Republicans.

Along the way both groups have changed their basic philosophies a few times.
Now they both represent the all encompassing corporate state while feigning concern for other constituencies.

So true, especially about where the two parties are today. And yet, millions of Americans think they are different and argue ad nauseum about it, which divides us so the power elite can continue their charade. What a total waste of time and proof that the elites can FOOL some of the people ALL the time.

 

[regent]

How easy it must be for Republicans to change American history on these boards. But when Republicans change history on these boards, does it mean history is actually changed and now historians will have to change the history books? So much of the Republican board-history is different from the history books on my shelves.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

sadly a liberal can call names but lacks the IQ to say why it is "crap"

I'll give you a few hints:

"The Gothic idea that we are to look backwards instead of forwards for the improvement of the human mind, and to recur to the annals of our ancestors for what is most perfect in government, in religion and in learning, is worthy of those bigots in religion & government, by whom it has been recommended, & whose purposes it would answer."
-- Thomas Jefferson; from letter to Dr. Joseph Priestly (Jan, 27, 1800)


"The earth is given as a common stock for man to labor and live on. If for the encouragement of industry we allow it to be appropriated, we must take care that other employment be provided to those excluded from the appropriation."
-- Thomas Jefferson; letter to James Madison (1785)


"Instead, therefore, of putting the Bible and Testament into the hands of the children at an age when their judgments are not sufficiently matured for religious inquiries, their memories may here be stored with the most useful facts"
-- Thomas Jefferson; from 'Notes on Virginia' Query XIV


"Our present enemy... may burn New York, indeed, by her ships and congreve rockets, in which case we must burn the city of London by hired incendiaries, of which her starving manufacturers will furnish abundance. A people in such desperation as to demand of their government aut parcem, aut furcam, either bread or the gallows, will not reject the same alternative when offered by a foreign hand. Hunger will make them brave every risk for bread."
-- Thomas Jefferson; from letter to Thaddeus Kosciusko (June 28, 1812)


"Although I do not, with some enthusiasts, believe that the human condition will ever advance to such a state of perfection as that there shall no longer be pain or vice in the world, yet I believe it susceptible of much improvement, and most of all, in matters of government and religion; and that the diffusion of knowledge among the people is to be the instrument by which it is to be effected."
-- Thomas Jefferson; from letter to P. S. Dupont de Nemours (April 24, 1816)


"The tone of your letters had for some time given me pain, on account of the extreme warmth with which they censured the proceedings of the Jacobins of France... It was necessary to use the arm of the people, a machine not quite so blind as balls and bombs, but blind to a certain degree... My own affections have been deeply wounded by some of the martyrs to this cause, but rather than it should have failed, I would have seen half the earth desolated."
-- Thomas Jefferson; from letter to William Short (January 3, 1793)


"The appeal to the rights of man, which had been made in the U S. was taken up by France, first of the European nations. From her the spirit has spread over those of the South. The tyrants of the North have allied indeed against it, but it is irresistible. Their opposition will only multiply it's millions of human victims; their own satellites will catch it, and the condition of man thro' the civilized world will be finally and greatly ameliorated."
-- Thomas Jefferson; from his Autobiography (1821)


"the great mass of the articles on which impost is paid are foreign luxuries, purchased by those only who are rich enough to afford themselves the use of them. Their patriotism would certainly prefer its continuance and application to the great purposes of the public education, roads, rivers, canals, and such other objects of public improvement as it may be thought proper to add to the constitutional enumeration of Federal powers."
-- Thomas Jefferson; from 6th State of the Union Address (Dec. 2, 1806)

dear, if you can say why Jefferson was not a Republican for very very limited govt please try. How will you learn if you are afriad to try?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

How easy it must be for Republicans to change American history on these boards.

please present your most substantive example or admit to being little more than a liar.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Other than the rhetorical use of the name Republican there is no tie from Jefferson to the modern Republican party.

No Tie??? Jefferson created the Republican party in 1793 to stand against Hamilton for very very limited govt. Modern Republicans sign Grover's pledge to never raise taxes because they too are for very very limited govt.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

If Jefferson founded the Republican Party however, Adams was the first Democrat; as Adams was an abolitionist, that does create some questions.

More importantly Jefferson hated Adams and the Federalists, and found them treasonous. Thats why he founded the Republican Party to destroy them and drive their concept of big liberal govt out of American History. He succeeded in what he called the Second American Revolutin of 1800. Federalism was dead,...at least until the New Deal when Democrats were spying for Stalin.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Now they both represent the all encompassing corporate state while feigning concern for other constituencies.

all encompassing corporate state? Dear, Republicans sign Grover's pledge to limit more and more the state while liberals do the exact opposite, like with Obamacare.

Do you understand now?

 

[jillian]

Sad but true, our liberals spied for Stalin's big liberal govt and never had any respect or understanding of Jeffersonian/Madisonian freedom from big liberal govt. In fact, our Constitution was little more than an attempt to make liberalism illegal in America.

okey dokey

you are aware that the GOP was founded by abolotionists in the 1800's right?

you'd call the founders rhinos if they were around today.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Sad but true, our liberals spied for Stalin's big liberal govt and never had any respect or understanding of Jeffersonian/Madisonian freedom from big liberal govt. In fact, our Constitution was little more than an attempt to make liberalism illegal in America.

okey dokey

Translation: I know in my heart he's wrong but I lack the IQ to say why.

 

[regent]

So after Jefferson and the liberals took the government from the conservatives in 1800 Jefferson buys Louisiana from France? The Louisiana Purchase meant a future expansion of government, and was based on loose construction of the Constitution. With Jefferson's, Louisiana purchase America is on her way not to just a .more liberal nation but to a larger government.
And then Jackson comes on the scene, with even more government, even looser construction, and America was on her way to her future. So our history begins with the the Age of Enlightenment carried into the Constitution. is given a kick by Jefferson and we have what we have today, thanks to Jefferson, Locke and many others.
If the conservatives had not tried to stop free speech during Adam's presidency the conservatives might have lasted a little longer their first time around.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The Louisiana Purchase meant a future expansion of government,

actually it was an expansion of land, not govt. Hate to rock your world!

 

[Agit8r]

sadly a liberal can call names but lacks the IQ to say why it is "crap"

I'll give you a few hints:

"The Gothic idea that we are to look backwards instead of forwards for the improvement of the human mind, and to recur to the annals of our ancestors for what is most perfect in government, in religion and in learning, is worthy of those bigots in religion & government, by whom it has been recommended, & whose purposes it would answer."
-- Thomas Jefferson; from letter to Dr. Joseph Priestly (Jan, 27, 1800)


"The earth is given as a common stock for man to labor and live on. If for the encouragement of industry we allow it to be appropriated, we must take care that other employment be provided to those excluded from the appropriation."
-- Thomas Jefferson; letter to James Madison (1785)


"Instead, therefore, of putting the Bible and Testament into the hands of the children at an age when their judgments are not sufficiently matured for religious inquiries, their memories may here be stored with the most useful facts"
-- Thomas Jefferson; from 'Notes on Virginia' Query XIV


"Our present enemy... may burn New York, indeed, by her ships and congreve rockets, in which case we must burn the city of London by hired incendiaries, of which her starving manufacturers will furnish abundance. A people in such desperation as to demand of their government aut parcem, aut furcam, either bread or the gallows, will not reject the same alternative when offered by a foreign hand. Hunger will make them brave every risk for bread."
-- Thomas Jefferson; from letter to Thaddeus Kosciusko (June 28, 1812)


"Although I do not, with some enthusiasts, believe that the human condition will ever advance to such a state of perfection as that there shall no longer be pain or vice in the world, yet I believe it susceptible of much improvement, and most of all, in matters of government and religion; and that the diffusion of knowledge among the people is to be the instrument by which it is to be effected."
-- Thomas Jefferson; from letter to P. S. Dupont de Nemours (April 24, 1816)


"The tone of your letters had for some time given me pain, on account of the extreme warmth with which they censured the proceedings of the Jacobins of France... It was necessary to use the arm of the people, a machine not quite so blind as balls and bombs, but blind to a certain degree... My own affections have been deeply wounded by some of the martyrs to this cause, but rather than it should have failed, I would have seen half the earth desolated."
-- Thomas Jefferson; from letter to William Short (January 3, 1793)


"The appeal to the rights of man, which had been made in the U S. was taken up by France, first of the European nations. From her the spirit has spread over those of the South. The tyrants of the North have allied indeed against it, but it is irresistible. Their opposition will only multiply it's millions of human victims; their own satellites will catch it, and the condition of man thro' the civilized world will be finally and greatly ameliorated."
-- Thomas Jefferson; from his Autobiography (1821)


"the great mass of the articles on which impost is paid are foreign luxuries, purchased by those only who are rich enough to afford themselves the use of them. Their patriotism would certainly prefer its continuance and application to the great purposes of the public education, roads, rivers, canals, and such other objects of public improvement as it may be thought proper to add to the constitutional enumeration of Federal powers."
-- Thomas Jefferson; from 6th State of the Union Address (Dec. 2, 1806)

dear, if you can say why Jefferson was not a Republican for very very limited govt please try. How will you learn if you are afriad to try?

I wouldn't say a very limited government, but obviously he didn't support the functions of government which "Republicans" hold the most dear:

"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" thus building a wall of eternal separation between Church & State. Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from prescribing even those occasional performances of devotion"
-- Thomas Jefferson; from letter to Danbury Baptists (Jan. 1. 1802.)


"...who is thus to dogmatize religious opinions for our citizens? Whose foot is to be the measure to which ours are all to be cut or stretched? Is a priest to be our inquisitor, or shall a layman, simple as ourselves, set up his reason as the rule for what we are to read, and what we must believe?"
-- Thomas Jefferson; from letter to N. G. Dufief (April 19, 1814)


"Were armies to be raised whenever a speck of war is visible in our horizon, we never should have been without them. Our resources would have been exhausted on dangers which have never happened, instead of being reserved for what is really to take place"
-- Thomas Jefferson; from 6th State of the Union Address (Dec. 2, 1806)

 

[regent]

The Louisiana Purchase meant a future expansion of government,

actually it was an expansion of land, not govt. Hate to rock your world!

Think carefully now, what happened to that expansion of land does it still just set there unoccupied. The purchase doubled the land size of the United States and that area would be turned into states with people, lots of people, people needing governments. Did it double the size of government, probably not, but certainly enlarged.
As Jefferson was changing his tune about strict construction, so the conservatives were changing their tune. Now the Federalists accused Jefferson of violating the Constitution with a purchase, not authorized by that document.
And that's how things change. The size of government is not part of any ideology, but more dependent on which party is in power and for how long and who it is trying to help.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I wouldn't say a very limited government,

why??? given he founded the Republican Party to stand for nothing else except very very limited govt. It was the entire reason for his political life!!


"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."-Thomas Jefferson

"The path we have to pursue[when Jefferson was President ] is so quiet that we have nothing scarcely to propose to our Legislature" -Thomas Jefferson

 

[regent]

I wouldn't say a very limited government,

why??? given he founded the Republican Party to stand for nothing else except very very limited govt. It was the entire reason for his political life!!


"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."-Thomas Jefferson

"The path we have to pursue[when Jefferson was President ] is so quiet that we have nothing scarcely to propose to our Legislature" -Thomas Jefferson

The best thing Jefferson did to help reduce the size and cost of government was to reduce the military. Good Idea.

 

[Agit8r]

I wouldn't say a very limited government,

why??? given he founded the Republican Party to stand for nothing else except very very limited govt. It was the entire reason for his political life!!


"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."-Thomas Jefferson

"The path we have to pursue[when Jefferson was President ] is so quiet that we have nothing scarcely to propose to our Legislature" -Thomas Jefferson

Again, you are talking about a myth, as if it was reality:

That government is best which governs least. (Quotation) « Thomas Jefferson?s Monticello

 

[gipper]

The Louisiana Purchase meant a future expansion of government,

actually it was an expansion of land, not govt. Hate to rock your world!

Think carefully now, what happened to that expansion of land does it still just set there unoccupied. The purchase doubled the land size of the United States and that area would be turned into states with people, lots of people, people needing governments. Did it double the size of government, probably not, but certainly enlarged.
As Jefferson was changing his tune about strict construction, so the conservatives were changing their tune. Now the Federalists accused Jefferson of violating the Constitution with a purchase, not authorized by that document.
And that's how things change. The size of government is not part of any ideology, but more dependent on which party is in power and for how long and who it is trying to help.

People do not NEED government. Needs are essential for life and government is not essential for life...on the contrary it destroys life. One would think after all the horrors caused by centralized government, throughout all human history, you would know this.

Government is force. It is corrupt and extremely wasteful. It destroys liberty, wealth, and prosperity.