If It's Bad.....Jews Did It

[Phoenall]

Hardly an expert as she is a geneticist and not an explosives expert. So strike the theory as being some daft bats 5 minutes of fame.

she has great understanding of scientific method
YouTube

Have you ever seen an explosives expert bring a building straight down, the timing on the explosions need to be exact to the microsecond. Impossible to achieve with the det cord available today as two pieces from the same drum the same length will differ by a few microseconds. The explosions were caused by the valence bonds in the steel beams giving way and causing the building to implode around its central core. Heat steel to 1000 c and it starts to alter chemically, the carbon moves away from the heat source while the ferrite moves towards the heat source. This makes the steel turn into first wrought iron and then cast iron, and as everyone knows cast iron is very weak when struck

NISTs forensic testing of wtc steel showed no signs of the temperatures sufficient to weaken steel

Strange that as the temperatures are quite low, and the steel I saw showed all the classic sings of valence bonds being compromised. The biggest problem was the dirty steel used that already weakened the beams, and the design that used just enough steel support to meet code requirements. One of the biggest failings of US builders

 

[eots]

Hardly an expert as she is a geneticist and not an explosives expert. So strike the theory as being some daft bats 5 minutes of fame.

she has great understanding of scientific method
YouTube

Have you ever seen an explosives expert bring a building straight down, the timing on the explosions need to be exact to the microsecond. Impossible to achieve with the det cord available today as two pieces from the same drum the same length will differ by a few microseconds. The explosions were caused by the valence bonds in the steel beams giving way and causing the building to implode around its central core. Heat steel to 1000 c and it starts to alter chemically, the carbon moves away from the heat source while the ferrite moves towards the heat source. This makes the steel turn into first wrought iron and then cast iron, and as everyone knows cast iron is very weak when struck

He won't listen. You are wasting your time. They enjoy this. They WANT to believe that it was the government or whatever crazy thing they believe.

you are not qualified to discuss the subject you do not even know the official story let alone the flaws contained in it

I am and take it from me steel can explode of its own accord when subjected to heat or cold

you have no background in metalurgy your statement is ludacris

 

[eots]

Hardly an expert as she is a geneticist and not an explosives expert. So strike the theory as being some daft bats 5 minutes of fame.

she has great understanding of scientific method
YouTube

Have you ever seen an explosives expert bring a building straight down, the timing on the explosions need to be exact to the microsecond. Impossible to achieve with the det cord available today as two pieces from the same drum the same length will differ by a few microseconds. The explosions were caused by the valence bonds in the steel beams giving way and causing the building to implode around its central core. Heat steel to 1000 c and it starts to alter chemically, the carbon moves away from the heat source while the ferrite moves towards the heat source. This makes the steel turn into first wrought iron and then cast iron, and as everyone knows cast iron is very weak when struck

NISTs forensic testing of wtc steel showed no signs of the temperatures sufficient to weaken steel

Strange that as the temperatures are quite low, and the steel I saw showed all the classic sings of valence bonds being compromised. The biggest problem was the dirty steel used that already weakened the beams, and the design that used just enough steel support to meet code requirements. One of the biggest failings of US builders

pure babble...and in fact in contradiction with the findings of NIST..which you are clearly unfamiliar with

 

[eots]

 

[Dogmaphobe]

you have no background in metalurgy your statement is ludacris

Did you mean ludicrous, by any chance?


I don't think rappers have anything to do with this mental illness of yours.

 

[SAYIT]

NISTs forensic testing of wtc steel showed no signs of the temperatures sufficient to weaken steel

That's a typical 9/11 CT lie necessitated by the fact that the truth just doesn't support their CT silliness.

It as quote is from the former NIST CHIEF FIRE INVESTIGATOR..you are calling him a typical liar /CT ?...on what basis

No ... I'm calling you a liar. Quintiere is not a 9/11 foil-hatter and specifically said he is not a supporter of theories that the Twin Towers were brought down by pre-planted explosives but rather he had problems with NIST's research methodology. Quintiere, who left the NIST back in the 1990s (well before the 9/11 attack on America by your Jihadi brethren) never said their "forensic testing of wtc steel showed no signs of the temperatures sufficient to weaken steel" as you claim. As already mentioned, your lying is necessitated by the fact that the truth just doesn't support your CT silliness. Quintiere has had 8 years to substantiate his doubts about the NIST report. Do you have any follow up studies or scholarly papers on the matter from the good doctor?
Here are the pesky answers to your questions that were published well after his doubts.

Questions and Answers about the NIST WTC 7 Investigation

How did the fires cause WTC 7 to collapse?
The heat from the uncontrolled fires caused steel floor beams and girders to thermally expand, leading to a chain of events that caused a key structural column to fail. The failure of this structural column then initiated a fire-induced progressive collapse of the entire building.

According to the report's probable collapse sequence, heat from the uncontrolled fires caused thermal expansion of the steel beams on the lower floors of the east side of WTC 7, damaging the floor framing on multiple floors.

Eventually, a girder on Floor 13 lost its connection to a critical column, Column 79, that provided support for the long floor spans on the east side of the building (see Diagram 1). The displaced girder and other local fire-induced damage caused Floor 13 to collapse, beginning a cascade of floor failures down to the 5th floor. Many of these floors had already been at least partially weakened by the fires in the vicinity of Column 79. This collapse of floors left Column 79 insufficiently supported in the east-west direction over nine stories.

The unsupported Column 79 then buckled and triggered an upward progression of floor system failures that reached the building's east penthouse. What followed in rapid succession was a series of structural failures. Failure first occurred all the way to the roof line-involving all three interior columns on the easternmost side of the building (79, 80, 81). Then, progressing from east to west across WTC 7, all of the columns failed in the core of the building (58 through 78). Finally, the entire façade collapsed.

 

[SAYIT]

Did any of your eye witnesses test the materials they saw? No? How do they know it was molten steel?

 

[Phoenall]

she has great understanding of scientific method
YouTube

Have you ever seen an explosives expert bring a building straight down, the timing on the explosions need to be exact to the microsecond. Impossible to achieve with the det cord available today as two pieces from the same drum the same length will differ by a few microseconds. The explosions were caused by the valence bonds in the steel beams giving way and causing the building to implode around its central core. Heat steel to 1000 c and it starts to alter chemically, the carbon moves away from the heat source while the ferrite moves towards the heat source. This makes the steel turn into first wrought iron and then cast iron, and as everyone knows cast iron is very weak when struck

He won't listen. You are wasting your time. They enjoy this. They WANT to believe that it was the government or whatever crazy thing they believe.

you are not qualified to discuss the subject you do not even know the official story let alone the flaws contained in it

I am and take it from me steel can explode of its own accord when subjected to heat or cold

you have no background in metalurgy your statement is ludacris

So you say, and that will get you a cup of coffee in any coffee shop as long as you have the money to pay for it. I spent 32 years in the Iron and Steel making industry and have seen 250 ton stacks of steel slabs explode because of thermal shock. I came up with a slow cooling process that amounted to surrounding the steel susceptible to thermal shock with ordinary steel slabs straight out of the mould. Replacing the slabs every time the temperature dropped below the temperature of the stacks. We also heat treated rail steel after some accidents involving railway lines that had excess hydrogen in them. We heated them to 1200c and held them there for 5 days in a furnace. Then we allowed them, to cool slowly to 600c then relit the furnace and brought them up to a controlled temperature of 800c and held them at that for 7 days. The hydrogen was by this time missing from the steel and had escaped through the valence bonds of ferrite, carbon, manganese, aluminium and chromium. Another heat treatment caused a high carbon skin to form on the steel making it applicable for special rail steel.

Now want to tell me I know nothing of metallurgy, as I bet all that went right over your head.

 

[Phoenall]

Hardly an expert as she is a geneticist and not an explosives expert. So strike the theory as being some daft bats 5 minutes of fame.

she has great understanding of scientific method
YouTube

Have you ever seen an explosives expert bring a building straight down, the timing on the explosions need to be exact to the microsecond. Impossible to achieve with the det cord available today as two pieces from the same drum the same length will differ by a few microseconds. The explosions were caused by the valence bonds in the steel beams giving way and causing the building to implode around its central core. Heat steel to 1000 c and it starts to alter chemically, the carbon moves away from the heat source while the ferrite moves towards the heat source. This makes the steel turn into first wrought iron and then cast iron, and as everyone knows cast iron is very weak when struck

NISTs forensic testing of wtc steel showed no signs of the temperatures sufficient to weaken steel

Strange that as the temperatures are quite low, and the steel I saw showed all the classic sings of valence bonds being compromised. The biggest problem was the dirty steel used that already weakened the beams, and the design that used just enough steel support to meet code requirements. One of the biggest failings of US builders

pure babble...and in fact in contradiction with the findings of NIST..which you are clearly unfamiliar with

I wonder how much the building contractors paid him to say this, after all graft is a way of life in the USA.

 

[Phoenall]

Did you listen to the recording, as it says the Steel was melted. That takes a temperature of about 3000 f ( 1500 c ). The experts talk of lumps of molten steel fused with concrete being found. They then show you a steel beam bent into a semi circle and you can see the valence bond failure points, they look like knife cuts in the steel.

You are full of shit and don't know what you are posting

 

[Phoenall]

NISTs forensic testing of wtc steel showed no signs of the temperatures sufficient to weaken steel

That's a typical 9/11 CT lie necessitated by the fact that the truth just doesn't support their CT silliness.

It as quote is from the former NIST CHIEF FIRE INVESTIGATOR..you are calling him a typical liar /CT ?...on what basis

No ... I'm calling you a liar. Quintiere is not a 9/11 foil-hatter and specifically said he is not a supporter of theories that the Twin Towers were brought down by pre-planted explosives but rather he had problems with NIST's research methodology. Quintiere, who left the NIST back in the 1990s (well before the 9/11 attack on America by your Jihadi brethren) never said their "forensic testing of wtc steel showed no signs of the temperatures sufficient to weaken steel" as you claim. As already mentioned, your lying is necessitated by the fact that the truth just doesn't support your CT silliness. Quintiere has had 8 years to substantiate his doubts about the NIST report. Do you have any follow up studies or scholarly papers on the matter from the good doctor?
Here are the pesky answers to your questions that were published well after his doubts.

Questions and Answers about the NIST WTC 7 Investigation

How did the fires cause WTC 7 to collapse?
The heat from the uncontrolled fires caused steel floor beams and girders to thermally expand, leading to a chain of events that caused a key structural column to fail. The failure of this structural column then initiated a fire-induced progressive collapse of the entire building.

According to the report's probable collapse sequence, heat from the uncontrolled fires caused thermal expansion of the steel beams on the lower floors of the east side of WTC 7, damaging the floor framing on multiple floors.

Eventually, a girder on Floor 13 lost its connection to a critical column, Column 79, that provided support for the long floor spans on the east side of the building (see Diagram 1). The displaced girder and other local fire-induced damage caused Floor 13 to collapse, beginning a cascade of floor failures down to the 5th floor. Many of these floors had already been at least partially weakened by the fires in the vicinity of Column 79. This collapse of floors left Column 79 insufficiently supported in the east-west direction over nine stories.

The unsupported Column 79 then buckled and triggered an upward progression of floor system failures that reached the building's east penthouse. What followed in rapid succession was a series of structural failures. Failure first occurred all the way to the roof line-involving all three interior columns on the easternmost side of the building (79, 80, 81). Then, progressing from east to west across WTC 7, all of the columns failed in the core of the building (58 through 78). Finally, the entire façade collapsed.

What you wont see is the steel structure was manufactured to take a static load bearing in a downwards direction of the calculated maximum weight plus a safety factor of 10%. This was calculated across the whole area even though the main support structure was in the central column of lift shafts. If any one of those central columns was to give the whole weighjt of the building would exceed the safety margin for the rest of the buildings central structure. This combined with the heat from the aviation fuel fires would compound the problem and the steel would explode as it reached critical temperature.

 

[SAYIT]

What you wont see is the steel structure was manufactured to take a static load bearing in a downwards direction of the calculated maximum weight plus a safety factor of 10%. This was calculated across the whole area even though the main support structure was in the central column of lift shafts. If any one of those central columns was to give the whole weighjt of the building would exceed the safety margin for the rest of the buildings central structure. This combined with the heat from the aviation fuel fires would compound the problem and the steel would explode as it reached critical temperature.

I have seen nothing of exploded steel but plenty about the collapse of heat-weakened supports.

 

[Phoenall]

What you wont see is the steel structure was manufactured to take a static load bearing in a downwards direction of the calculated maximum weight plus a safety factor of 10%. This was calculated across the whole area even though the main support structure was in the central column of lift shafts. If any one of those central columns was to give the whole weighjt of the building would exceed the safety margin for the rest of the buildings central structure. This combined with the heat from the aviation fuel fires would compound the problem and the steel would explode as it reached critical temperature.

I have seen nothing of exploded steel but plenty about the collapse of heat-weakened supports.

That is what happens when the steel is weakened with heat, the maths and science is very complex but imagine a forest fire and all the animals running away from the fire. Well that is what happens to the inclusions in the steel when they run away from the source of the heat. This leaves a very brittle poor quality cast iron that cant take the weight, so it explodes as a closed can of soup does when heated. It is not an explosion as in dynamite or plastic, but the sound and effects are the same. I saw a stainless steel plate explode into millions of needles when the water cooling was not set right, we were collecting them for 6 months after

 

[ChrisL]

NISTs forensic testing of wtc steel showed no signs of the temperatures sufficient to weaken steel

That's a typical 9/11 CT lie necessitated by the fact that the truth just doesn't support their CT silliness.

It as quote is from the former NIST CHIEF FIRE INVESTIGATOR..you are calling him a typical liar /CT ?...on what basis

Reputable engineers and scientists and witnesses disagree. The heat with the jet fuel was enough to weaken the structural supports, and with all the weight they were supporting, the buildings collapsed. IF it was an "implosion" it would not have been SO gradual. Common sense wins again.

Buckling Steel
Dr. Shyam Sunder, lead investigator for NIST's building and fire safety investigation into the WTC disaster, said, "While the buildings were able to withstand the initial impact of the aircraft, the resulting fires that spread through the towers weakened support columns and floors that had fireproofing dislodged by the impacts. This eventually led to collapse as the perimeter columns were pulled inward by the sagging floors and buckled." "The reason the towers collapsed is because the fireproofing was dislodged," according to Sunder. If the fireproofing had remained in place, Sunder said, the fires would have burned out and moved on without weakening key elements to the point of structural collapse." - Latest Findings From NIST World Trade Center Investigation Released

"According to Shyam Sunder, the concave bowing of the steel was seen on the sides of the towers opposite where the planes hit them. At 10:06 a.m. that morning, an officer in a police helicopter reported that ``it's not going to take long before the north tower comes down.'' This was 20 minutes before it collapsed. In another radio transmission at 10:21 a.m., the officer said he saw buckling in the north tower's southern face, Shyam Sunder said."

"Engineers believe the bowing of the exterior steel beams near the flame-engulfed floors was the critical "triggering point" because that's the direction each tower tilted as it came crashing down."

"The report includes photographs taken from police helicopters showing the bending columns."

 

[ChrisL]

Key findings include:

• Floor sagging and exposure to high temperatures caused the perimeter columns to bow inward and buckle—a process that spread across the faces of the buildings.
• Even though the jet fuel on the planes burned off in the first few minutes after impact, there was enough office furniture to sustain intense fires for at least an hour.
• The original builders of the twin towers and those who later renovated the structures did not have a clear technical standard for deciding on how much insulation to use around the structural beams, many of which gave way in the intense heat.

 

[Phoenall]

What you wont see is the steel structure was manufactured to take a static load bearing in a downwards direction of the calculated maximum weight plus a safety factor of 10%. This was calculated across the whole area even though the main support structure was in the central column of lift shafts. If any one of those central columns was to give the whole weighjt of the building would exceed the safety margin for the rest of the buildings central structure. This combined with the heat from the aviation fuel fires would compound the problem and the steel would explode as it reached critical temperature.

I have seen nothing of exploded steel but plenty about the collapse of heat-weakened supports.

That is what happens when the steel is weakened with heat, the maths and science is very complex but imagine a forest fire and all the animals running away from the fire. Well that is what happens to the inclusions in the steel when they run away from the source of the heat. This leaves a very brittle poor quality cast iron that cant take the weight, so it explodes as a closed can of soup does when heated. It is not an explosion as in dynamite or plastic, but the sound and effects are the same. I saw a stainless steel plate explode into millions of needles when the water cooling was not set right, we were collecting them for 6 months after

Key findings include:

• Floor sagging and exposure to high temperatures caused the perimeter columns to bow inward and buckle—a process that spread across the faces of the buildings.
• Even though the jet fuel on the planes burned off in the first few minutes after impact, there was enough office furniture to sustain intense fires for at least an hour.
• The original builders of the twin towers and those who later renovated the structures did not have a clear technical standard for deciding on how much insulation to use around the structural beams, many of which gave way in the intense heat.

Don't forget the effect of the lift shafts acting as venturi's and drawing air under pressure from the ground levels which acted as a blast furnace acts. This created a high pressure air current that added more and more oxygen to the fire, increasing the temperature. Remember the bunsen burner used in the labs at school, and how you could control the heat by opening ports at the bottom.

 

[ChrisL]

What you wont see is the steel structure was manufactured to take a static load bearing in a downwards direction of the calculated maximum weight plus a safety factor of 10%. This was calculated across the whole area even though the main support structure was in the central column of lift shafts. If any one of those central columns was to give the whole weighjt of the building would exceed the safety margin for the rest of the buildings central structure. This combined with the heat from the aviation fuel fires would compound the problem and the steel would explode as it reached critical temperature.

I have seen nothing of exploded steel but plenty about the collapse of heat-weakened supports.

That is what happens when the steel is weakened with heat, the maths and science is very complex but imagine a forest fire and all the animals running away from the fire. Well that is what happens to the inclusions in the steel when they run away from the source of the heat. This leaves a very brittle poor quality cast iron that cant take the weight, so it explodes as a closed can of soup does when heated. It is not an explosion as in dynamite or plastic, but the sound and effects are the same. I saw a stainless steel plate explode into millions of needles when the water cooling was not set right, we were collecting them for 6 months after

Key findings include:

• Floor sagging and exposure to high temperatures caused the perimeter columns to bow inward and buckle—a process that spread across the faces of the buildings.
• Even though the jet fuel on the planes burned off in the first few minutes after impact, there was enough office furniture to sustain intense fires for at least an hour.
• The original builders of the twin towers and those who later renovated the structures did not have a clear technical standard for deciding on how much insulation to use around the structural beams, many of which gave way in the intense heat.

Don't forget the effect of the lift shafts acting as venturi's and drawing air under pressure from the ground levels which acted as a blast furnace acts. This created a high pressure air current that added more and more oxygen to the fire, increasing the temperature. Remember the bunsen burner used in the labs at school, and how you could control the heat by opening ports at the bottom.

Good point.

It really doesn't even MATTER to Eots, as he is a conspiracy theorist. He wants to believe what he believes, even if it is completely ignorant of the facts. I'm posting these things from the links I posted earlier for other people who may be on the fence, so to speak.

 

[eots]

NISTs forensic testing of wtc steel showed no signs of the temperatures sufficient to weaken steel

That's a typical 9/11 CT lie necessitated by the fact that the truth just doesn't support their CT silliness.

It as quote is from the former NIST CHIEF FIRE INVESTIGATOR..you are calling him a typical liar /CT ?...on what basis

No ... I'm calling you a liar. Quintiere is not a 9/11 foil-hatter and specifically said he is not a supporter of theories that the Twin Towers were brought down by pre-planted explosives but rather he had problems with NIST's research methodology. Quintiere, who left the NIST back in the 1990s (well before the 9/11 attack on America by your Jihadi brethren) never said their "forensic testing of wtc steel showed no signs of the temperatures sufficient to weaken steel" as you claim. As already mentioned, your lying is necessitated by the fact that the truth just doesn't support your CT silliness. Quintiere has had 8 years to substantiate his doubts about the NIST report. Do you have any follow up studies or scholarly papers on the matter from the good doctor?
Here are the pesky answers to your questions that were published well after his doubts.

Questions and Answers about the NIST WTC 7 Investigation

How did the fires cause WTC 7 to collapse?
The heat from the uncontrolled fires caused steel floor beams and girders to thermally expand, leading to a chain of events that caused a key structural column to fail. The failure of this structural column then initiated a fire-induced progressive collapse of the entire building.

According to the report's probable collapse sequence, heat from the uncontrolled fires caused thermal expansion of the steel beams on the lower floors of the east side of WTC 7, damaging the floor framing on multiple floors.

Eventually, a girder on Floor 13 lost its connection to a critical column, Column 79, that provided support for the long floor spans on the east side of the building (see Diagram 1). The displaced girder and other local fire-induced damage caused Floor 13 to collapse, beginning a cascade of floor failures down to the 5th floor. Many of these floors had already been at least partially weakened by the fires in the vicinity of Column 79. This collapse of floors left Column 79 insufficiently supported in the east-west direction over nine stories.

The unsupported Column 79 then buckled and triggered an upward progression of floor system failures that reached the building's east penthouse. What followed in rapid succession was a series of structural failures. Failure first occurred all the way to the roof line-involving all three interior columns on the easternmost side of the building (79, 80, 81). Then, progressing from east to west across WTC 7, all of the columns failed in the core of the building (58 through 78). Finally, the entire façade collapsed.

why do paste a summary of the wtc 7 collapse ? you probably do not even understand. according to NIST a kid with a pack of matches could cause the collapse of wtc 7 Quintiere without quesrion states NISTs forensic testing of wtc steel showed no signs of the temperatures sufficient to weaken steel and I provided the link btw ..you seem to be confusing the towers with wtc 7

 

[eots]

Don't forget the effect of the lift shafts acting as venturi's and drawing air under pressure from the ground levels which acted as a blast furnace acts. This created a high pressure air current that added more and more oxygen to the fire, increasing the temperature. Remember the bunsen burner used in the labs at school, and how you could control the heat by opening ports at the bottom.[/QUOTE]

Good point.

It really doesn't even MATTER to Eots, as he is a conspiracy theorist. He wants to believe what he believes, even if it is completely ignorant of the facts. I'm posting these things from the links I posted earlier for other people who may be on the fence, so to speak. [/QUOTE]

all you did was repost rhe illogical NIST theory and crazy stories of exploding stainless steel

 

[eots]

d

What you wont see is the steel structure was manufactured to take a static load bearing in a downwards direction of the calculated maximum weight plus a safety factor of 10%. This was calculated across the whole area even though the main support structure was in the central column of lift shafts. If any one of those central columns was to give the whole weighjt of the building would exceed the safety margin for the rest of the buildings central structure. This combined with the heat from the aviation fuel fires would compound the problem and the steel would explode as it reached critical temperature.

I have seen nothing of exploded steel but plenty about the collapse of heat-weakened supports.

That is what happens when the steel is weakened with heat, the maths and science is very complex but imagine a forest fire and all the animals running away from the fire. Well that is what happens to the inclusions in the steel when they run away from the source of the heat. This leaves a very brittle poor quality cast iron that cant take the weight, so it explodes as a closed can of soup does when heated. It is not an explosion as in dynamite or plastic, but the sound and effects are the same. I saw a stainless steel plate explode into millions of needles when the water cooling was not set right, we were collecting them for 6 months after

Key findings include:

• Floor sagging and exposure to high temperatures caused the perimeter columns to bow inward and buckle—a process that spread across the faces of the buildings.
• Even though the jet fuel on the planes burned off in the first few minutes after impact, there was enough office furniture to sustain intense fires for at least an hour.
• The original builders of the twin towers and those who later renovated the structures did not have a clear technical standard for deciding on how much insulation to use around the structural beams, many of which gave way in the intense heat.

Don't forget the effect of the lift shafts acting as venturi's and drawing air under pressure from the ground levels which acted as a blast furnace acts. This created a high pressure air current that added more and more oxygen to the fire, increasing the temperature. Remember the bunsen burner used in the labs at school, and how you could control the heat by opening ports at the bottom.

dont foget fire fighters reach the 79 th floor reporting small fires and people stood in the impact hole awaiting rescue