If guns are needed for self-protection, then who was the Oregon mass killer protecting himself from?

[Ray From Cleveland]

How do you suggest we protect ourselves from PEOPLE LIKE HIM? OR someone who want's to chop our heads off?

I don't get what is so confusing about any of this.

I WANT THE PROTECTON I WANT IN MY HOME and that is my gun, not a box of can goods to throw at someone trying to invade my family. get whatever make you feel good.

There are many ways to protect your home besides a gun.

I'm not worried about protecting my home. I have insurance for that. I'm more concerned about protecting myself and visitors if I have them here at the time.

 

[westwall]

The NRA Gun Fetishist myth that guns are for "self protection" is hogwash.

Guns haven't even "protected" cops from being shot.

They haven't? Then by all means disarm them. Disarm Obama's Secret Service detachment and Bloomies private security guards too.

 

[westwall]

Those countries are also less populated and ethnically homogenous and as a result, they have a lesser tendency to commit violent crimes. Australia is fast changing these days however and it may be mired in violence as much as us.

Blaming diversity for rampant gun deaths in this nation is a cop out.

Guns are worshiped by a small segment of this society that have obstructed all sane measures to curb this violence.

Right now a citizen is in more danger from another citizen than the government and no amount of guns is going to make someone any safer. More guns are not the answer, they are the problem.

Great, so when your house is broken into by a thug that wants to rob and kill you. Will you just yell at him and hit him with a towel?

If that same dude enters my home he will receive two 38 special hollow point rounds in his center of mass.

I will survive, you----------------probably not. But you won't have any evil guns around you. Idiot.

For starters I don't live in a bad neighborhood like you do.

Secondly I have deterrents that keep dumb dudes like you who want to steal away from breaking and entering. In the event that someone of your IQ level were to be stupid enough to actually break in they would have to deal with the fact that cops would be there within 2 minutes of the alarm being activated since I live less than a mile from the police station. They will be running away as soon as it starts going off.

But let's assume that they are actually as stupid as you are and want to try and take me on. The fact that I am 6'2", work out at the gym every other day, ex-military and a biker I really don't see myself having any problem at all dealing with a low IQ punk like yourself.

Punks like you look for softer targets because basically you are all cowards which is why you need your guns to make you feel like a man. I don't need a penis substitute.

You will when some creep shoots your dick off because nobody is a match for a gun, and I don't care how bad you are.

The average handgun is notoriously inaccurate. Some punk dumb enough to break into a home with deterrents and people at home is not going to be smart enough to have learned how to shoot properly. Hitting a moving target is considerably more difficult. Doing so in strange surroundings where you don't know where anything or anyone is and you are stressed out of your mind because you are breaking the law makes it next to impossible.

Ask any cop and they will tell you that you need a minimum of 20' in order to draw, aim and fire before the person you are trying to shoot can reach you.

Even trained police officers have a problem hitting their targets. Ferguson was a classic example of someone trained with handgun not being able to hit a moving target.

So reality is that if you are dumb enough to believe that a gun is going to "protect you" then you probably won't be around to regret believing that fallacy when it comes down to crunch time.

Only in Hollywood does the good guy manage to shoot the bad guy. In real life you are half asleep and still groping around trying to find your gun before the bad guy has reached you and then you are just showing him where to find your gun.

A gun is only useful if you are wide awake and you can clearly see your target who is exactly far away to hit from that distance and not close enough to reach you and standing completely still giving you the largest possible target.

That doesn't happen in real life.

Ummmm, no they're not. The people are inaccurate, the guns are actually pretty damned accurate. My 6" Colt Python is lethal out to over 400 yards.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Those countries are also less populated and ethnically homogenous and as a result, they have a lesser tendency to commit violent crimes. Australia is fast changing these days however and it may be mired in violence as much as us.

Blaming diversity for rampant gun deaths in this nation is a cop out.

Guns are worshiped by a small segment of this society that have obstructed all sane measures to curb this violence.

Right now a citizen is in more danger from another citizen than the government and no amount of guns is going to make someone any safer. More guns are not the answer, they are the problem.

Great, so when your house is broken into by a thug that wants to rob and kill you. Will you just yell at him and hit him with a towel?

If that same dude enters my home he will receive two 38 special hollow point rounds in his center of mass.

I will survive, you----------------probably not. But you won't have any evil guns around you. Idiot.

For starters I don't live in a bad neighborhood like you do.

Secondly I have deterrents that keep dumb dudes like you who want to steal away from breaking and entering. In the event that someone of your IQ level were to be stupid enough to actually break in they would have to deal with the fact that cops would be there within 2 minutes of the alarm being activated since I live less than a mile from the police station. They will be running away as soon as it starts going off.

But let's assume that they are actually as stupid as you are and want to try and take me on. The fact that I am 6'2", work out at the gym every other day, ex-military and a biker I really don't see myself having any problem at all dealing with a low IQ punk like yourself.

Punks like you look for softer targets because basically you are all cowards which is why you need your guns to make you feel like a man. I don't need a penis substitute.

You will when some creep shoots your dick off because nobody is a match for a gun, and I don't care how bad you are.

The average handgun is notoriously inaccurate. Some punk dumb enough to break into a home with deterrents and people at home is not going to be smart enough to have learned how to shoot properly. Hitting a moving target is considerably more difficult. Doing so in strange surroundings where you don't know where anything or anyone is and you are stressed out of your mind because you are breaking the law makes it next to impossible.

Ask any cop and they will tell you that you need a minimum of 20' in order to draw, aim and fire before the person you are trying to shoot can reach you.

Even trained police officers have a problem hitting their targets. Ferguson was a classic example of someone trained with handgun not being able to hit a moving target.

So reality is that if you are dumb enough to believe that a gun is going to "protect you" then you probably won't be around to regret believing that fallacy when it comes down to crunch time.

Only in Hollywood does the good guy manage to shoot the bad guy. In real life you are half asleep and still groping around trying to find your gun before the bad guy has reached you and then you are just showing him where to find your gun.

A gun is only useful if you are wide awake and you can clearly see your target who is exactly far away to hit from that distance and not close enough to reach you and standing completely still giving you the largest possible target.

That doesn't happen in real life.

Oh yes it does, and there are plenty of stories out there to prove it. You have to really look for them thanks to the liberal media, but they are out there.

In class, we used statistics. For instance, in a typical self-defense situation, most attackers are less than 8 feet from you when you shoot. As for where my gun is when I sleep, I don't have any children in the house so I can leave my loaded firearm right inside my headboard. I'm only one second away.

And if the clown is at some distance away, I guarantee you I'm a better shot than him. Punks seldom spend the money to practice at the firing range.

So I'll take my chances protecting myself in the event of an intruder. You can beg for your life if you think that's going to stop him.

 

[Penelope]

Where do some of you live. I realize I do not live in a huge city anymore, but crime is everywhere. If your neighborhood is so bad, then go to the city council and help get it cleaned up without more violence.
We are not back in the 1800's. If so all able bodied men would be in reserve militia , ready to battle Britain , France and Indians and civil wars, Mi didn't even exist back then.

Police are only good after a crime is committed. But once somebody guns you down and takes your purse, do you really care about the cops at that point?

Much of the crime that takes place here are from people that live outside of our suburb. How can city council help with that? Are we to put up a fence around the entire city and have a guard at specific gates?

How do you suggest we protect ourselves from PEOPLE LIKE HIM? OR someone who want's to chop our heads off?

I don't get what is so confusing about any of this.

I WANT THE PROTECTON I WANT IN MY HOME and that is my gun, not a box of can goods to throw at someone trying to invade my family. get whatever make you feel good.

There are many ways to protect your home besides a gun.

I'm not worried about protecting my home. I have insurance for that. I'm more concerned about protecting myself and visitors if I have them here at the time.

No I understand that. If you have a gun at home I'm fine with that, just don't haul it around with you. Most burglars case your home first. They are not going to come in with cars there. Do you think? A woman home alone is much scarier due to rapist, but you'd have a bugler most likely.
We had two shootings here the last few days, in apt. areas, about 5 or so miles from me, and both were said to be targeted, drugs probably. I know some areas are worst than others, and that might be your case, and if you feel better with a gun at home, go for it.

 

[Mad Scientist]

OP must be too stupid to breathe. But I'll bet he knows all about his favorite sports team!

 

[MaryL]

My niece was an administrator at that school. It seems we are just about protecting gun owners, guns guns guns. Gun owners rights. I am not finding gun owners rights preempts my to exist because some whackjob can buy a friggin gun. Please.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Where do some of you live. I realize I do not live in a huge city anymore, but crime is everywhere. If your neighborhood is so bad, then go to the city council and help get it cleaned up without more violence.
We are not back in the 1800's. If so all able bodied men would be in reserve militia , ready to battle Britain , France and Indians and civil wars, Mi didn't even exist back then.

Police are only good after a crime is committed. But once somebody guns you down and takes your purse, do you really care about the cops at that point?

Much of the crime that takes place here are from people that live outside of our suburb. How can city council help with that? Are we to put up a fence around the entire city and have a guard at specific gates?

How do you suggest we protect ourselves from PEOPLE LIKE HIM? OR someone who want's to chop our heads off?

I don't get what is so confusing about any of this.

I WANT THE PROTECTON I WANT IN MY HOME and that is my gun, not a box of can goods to throw at someone trying to invade my family. get whatever make you feel good.

There are many ways to protect your home besides a gun.

I'm not worried about protecting my home. I have insurance for that. I'm more concerned about protecting myself and visitors if I have them here at the time.

No I understand that. If you have a gun at home I'm fine with that, just don't haul it around with you. Most burglars case your home first. They are not going to come in with cars there. Do you think? A woman home alone is much scarier due to rapist, but you'd have a bugler most likely.
We had two shootings here the last few days, in apt. areas, about 5 or so miles from me, and both were said to be targeted, drugs probably. I know some areas are worst than others, and that might be your case, and if you feel better with a gun at home, go for it.

I'm not a target in my home because intruders are too fearful of me possibly being armed. Why would I not bring that same uncertainty to them out in the streets?

About ten years ago our state was debating having CCW's and of course, it was a hot topic in our local blogs.

So I got into a debate with a person who was against the upcoming law. He asked why I so strongly supported CCW's in our state. I explained that among other things, my mother lives alone and doesn't drive a car--she never has. She loves to walk to church, to the store, to the neighbors down the street and so on. I furthered by telling him I would be more relieved if we had CCW's for people like my mother.

He replied by asking me that if the law passed, would my elderly mother carry a firearm with her? To that I replied "No she wouldn't, but the criminal doesn't know that."

Even people that are against firearms are better protected just because they can be armed and the criminal has no idea. Before our legislatures passed our CCW law, I used to read about car jackings and ATM robberies all the time--some fatal. After our law advanced and allowed us to carry in the car, those incidents decreased dramatically.

 

[Derideo_Te]

there are plenty of stories out there to prove it.

Anecdotes don't "prove" anything.

In class, we used statistics. For instance, in a typical self-defense situation, most attackers are less than 8 feet from you when you shoot.

Anyone less than 8' away from you can close in and attack you before you can get your gun, aim and fire.

Try looking at the statistics the cops and FBI rely upon because those are fact based.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

there are plenty of stories out there to prove it.

Anecdotes don't "prove" anything.

In class, we used statistics. For instance, in a typical self-defense situation, most attackers are less than 8 feet from you when you shoot.

Anyone less than 8' away from you can close in and attack you before you can get your gun, aim and fire.

Try looking at the statistics the cops and FBI rely upon because those are fact based.

Oh, so you know more than my firearms class, huh?

It seems you also know nothing about self-defense. Either that or you know more than my former martial arts teacher as well.

An unarmed person stands no chance against a person with a weapon; a slight chance if the person with the gun is standing around two feet from you which is seldom the case. And even then, there is a slight chance you would be able to disarm the person with the weapon and not get shot.

Trust me, I've had training on this stuff--you haven't. Quit watching so many televisions shows.

 

[BluesLegend]

Our right to keep and bare arms is not granted by the 2nd amendment, this right is unalienable. The 2nd amendment exists simply to remind the lowlife lying scum gun control advocates of this fact and that our right shall not be infringed.

 

[Derideo_Te]

there are plenty of stories out there to prove it.

Anecdotes don't "prove" anything.

In class, we used statistics. For instance, in a typical self-defense situation, most attackers are less than 8 feet from you when you shoot.

Anyone less than 8' away from you can close in and attack you before you can get your gun, aim and fire.

Try looking at the statistics the cops and FBI rely upon because those are fact based.

Oh, so you know more than my firearms class, huh?

It seems you also know nothing about self-defense. Either that or you know more than my former martial arts teacher as well.

An unarmed person stands no chance against a person with a weapon; a slight chance if the person with the gun is standing around two feet from you which is seldom the case. And even then, there is a slight chance you would be able to disarm the person with the weapon and not get shot.

Trust me, I've had training on this stuff--you haven't. Quit watching so many televisions shows.

Next time I meet up with the FBI weapons instructor who certifies my local PD I will let him know that according to someone on the internet he doesn't know what he is talking about.

I am sure he will find your inanities just as amusing as I do.

 

[BluesLegend]

My niece was an administrator at that school. It seems we are just about protecting gun owners, guns guns guns. Gun owners rights. I am not finding gun owners rights preempts my to exist because some whackjob can buy a friggin gun. Please.

You are free to choose not to own a gun and be a victim. Your right to be a victim does not trump my right to defend myself. Insane people intent on suicide and killing people exist in this world so deal with it. Evil thugs intent on raping and murder exist. Drug addicts half out of their minds intent on killing you if that's what it takes to get a fix exist. Sorry the world is not the utopia you wish it was.

 

[Derideo_Te]

My niece was an administrator at that school. It seems we are just about protecting gun owners, guns guns guns. Gun owners rights. I am not finding gun owners rights preempts my to exist because some whackjob can buy a friggin gun. Please.

You are free to choose not to own a gun and be a victim. Your right to be a victim does not trump my right to defend myself. Insane people intent on suicide and killing people exist in this world so deal with it. Evil thugs intent on raping and murder exist. Drug addicts half out of their minds intent on killing you if that's what it takes to get a fix exist. Sorry the world is not the utopia you wish it was.

Ironic coming from a paranoid gun fetishist.

Do you have a special collection of guns to "protect" you from the insane as opposed to the rapists which require a different collection of guns and how do you know which one to choose? Do you ask the intruder are you a rapist, drug addict or insane so you know which gun to use?

And most of all why do you spend all of your money on your gun fetish collection instead of just moving to a better location and/or using deterrent measures so you won't be faced with these difficult choices that will overwhelm what passes for your mind when you need to make that all important choice?

Oh wait! Your gun fetish collection is all about trying to feel like a "man" because of your other shortcomings, isn't it? You need to have the "biggest" gun fetish collection because otherwise you aren't a "real man", are you?

And no, you don't need to respond because we already know what your predictable response is going to be anyway.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

My niece was an administrator at that school. It seems we are just about protecting gun owners, guns guns guns. Gun owners rights. I am not finding gun owners rights preempts my to exist because some whackjob can buy a friggin gun. Please.

You are free to choose not to own a gun and be a victim. Your right to be a victim does not trump my right to defend myself. Insane people intent on suicide and killing people exist in this world so deal with it. Evil thugs intent on raping and murder exist. Drug addicts half out of their minds intent on killing you if that's what it takes to get a fix exist. Sorry the world is not the utopia you wish it was.

Ironic coming from a paranoid gun fetishist.

Do you have a special collection of guns to "protect" you from the insane as opposed to the rapists which require a different collection of guns and how do you know which one to choose? Do you ask the intruder are you a rapist, drug addict or insane so you know which gun to use?

And most of all why do you spend all of your money on your gun fetish collection instead of just moving to a better location and/or using deterrent measures so you won't be faced with these difficult choices that will overwhelm what passes for your mind when you need to make that all important choice?

Oh wait! Your gun fetish collection is all about trying to feel like a "man" because of your other shortcomings, isn't it? You need to have the "biggest" gun fetish collection because otherwise you aren't a "real man", are you?

And no, you don't need to respond because we already know what your predictable response is going to be anyway.

Yeah, every gun owner in this country has a gun fetish.

You people on the left are like clones. You all think alike and it's frightening.

You don't even realize what you are saying. You think your pathetic attempt at reverse psychology is going to change the minds of people.

"Oh! If I insult their masculinity, they will feel ashamed and give up their gun."

"Oh, If I call them racist, they will quit insulting Obama."

It's almost comical. Again, you all use the same methodology and don't even realize how obvious you people are. In your own little minds, you think you're fooling everybody else. LOL!

 

[Iceweasel]

No I understand that. If you have a gun at home I'm fine with that, just don't haul it around with you.

My ccw permit says otherwise. Fail.

 

[Iceweasel]

This is the personification of what Col Cooper called a hoplophobe. Complete irrational fear of guns, trying desperately to make the dysfunction look reasonable.

Ironic coming from a paranoid gun fetishist.

Do you have a special collection of guns to "protect" you from the insane as opposed to the rapists which require a different collection of guns and how do you know which one to choose? Do you ask the intruder are you a rapist, drug addict or insane so you know which gun to use?

And most of all why do you spend all of your money on your gun fetish collection instead of just moving to a better location and/or using deterrent measures so you won't be faced with these difficult choices that will overwhelm what passes for your mind when you need to make that all important choice?

Oh wait! Your gun fetish collection is all about trying to feel like a "man" because of your other shortcomings, isn't it? You need to have the "biggest" gun fetish collection because otherwise you aren't a "real man", are you?

And no, you don't need to respond because we already know what your predictable response is going to be anyway.

 

[Redfish]

It hasn't been the case because there are millions of armed Americans with plenty of reprisals to give out. If we ban guns then we may end up like Russia where not we, but the state will be the final authority on all things. After all, what can the average Russian do except be conned into a communist agenda? That is the nightmare scenario our founding fathers fought so hard to escape from.

Your scare tactic lacks credibility. Has that happened in Australia or Japan or any of the other nations that have sane gun laws?

Those countries are also less populated and ethnically homogenous and as a result, they have a lesser tendency to commit violent crimes. Australia is fast changing these days however and it may be mired in violence as much as us.

Blaming diversity for rampant gun deaths in this nation is a cop out.

Guns are worshiped by a small segment of this society that have obstructed all sane measures to curb this violence.

Right now a citizen is in more danger from another citizen than the government and no amount of guns is going to make someone any safer. More guns are not the answer, they are the problem.

Great, so when your house is broken into by a thug that wants to rob and kill you. Will you just yell at him and hit him with a towel?

If that same dude enters my home he will receive two 38 special hollow point rounds in his center of mass.

I will survive, you----------------probably not. But you won't have any evil guns around you. Idiot.

For starters I don't live in a bad neighborhood like you do.

Secondly I have deterrents that keep dumb dudes like you who want to steal away from breaking and entering. In the event that someone of your IQ level were to be stupid enough to actually break in they would have to deal with the fact that cops would be there within 2 minutes of the alarm being activated since I live less than a mile from the police station. They will be running away as soon as it starts going off.

But let's assume that they are actually as stupid as you are and want to try and take me on. The fact that I am 6'2", work out at the gym every other day, ex-military and a biker I really don't see myself having any problem at all dealing with a low IQ punk like yourself.

Punks like you look for softer targets because basically you are all cowards which is why you need your guns to make you feel like a man. I don't need a penis substitute.

Those who toot their own horns will have no horns to toot. Simpleton

I live in a gated community that is very secure. But we have had thugs climb the gates and try to break into homes.

So, if one of these thugs breaks into your home you are going to call 911 and flex for him before he puts several rounds into your stupid head. The cops will be there in 2 minutes---------------do you know how many rounds can be fired in 2 minutes?

Get a gun, idiot. If pistols scare you, get a shotgun. if you are too much of a pussy to point it at a criminal, shoot your bathroom mirror, that will scare him away since he won't know that you are a pussy.

 

[Redfish]

Those countries are also less populated and ethnically homogenous and as a result, they have a lesser tendency to commit violent crimes. Australia is fast changing these days however and it may be mired in violence as much as us.

Blaming diversity for rampant gun deaths in this nation is a cop out.

Guns are worshiped by a small segment of this society that have obstructed all sane measures to curb this violence.

Right now a citizen is in more danger from another citizen than the government and no amount of guns is going to make someone any safer. More guns are not the answer, they are the problem.

Great, so when your house is broken into by a thug that wants to rob and kill you. Will you just yell at him and hit him with a towel?

If that same dude enters my home he will receive two 38 special hollow point rounds in his center of mass.

I will survive, you----------------probably not. But you won't have any evil guns around you. Idiot.

For starters I don't live in a bad neighborhood like you do.

Secondly I have deterrents that keep dumb dudes like you who want to steal away from breaking and entering. In the event that someone of your IQ level were to be stupid enough to actually break in they would have to deal with the fact that cops would be there within 2 minutes of the alarm being activated since I live less than a mile from the police station. They will be running away as soon as it starts going off.

But let's assume that they are actually as stupid as you are and want to try and take me on. The fact that I am 6'2", work out at the gym every other day, ex-military and a biker I really don't see myself having any problem at all dealing with a low IQ punk like yourself.

Punks like you look for softer targets because basically you are all cowards which is why you need your guns to make you feel like a man. I don't need a penis substitute.

You will when some creep shoots your dick off because nobody is a match for a gun, and I don't care how bad you are.

The average handgun is notoriously inaccurate. Some punk dumb enough to break into a home with deterrents and people at home is not going to be smart enough to have learned how to shoot properly. Hitting a moving target is considerably more difficult. Doing so in strange surroundings where you don't know where anything or anyone is and you are stressed out of your mind because you are breaking the law makes it next to impossible.

Ask any cop and they will tell you that you need a minimum of 20' in order to draw, aim and fire before the person you are trying to shoot can reach you.

Even trained police officers have a problem hitting their targets. Ferguson was a classic example of someone trained with handgun not being able to hit a moving target.

So reality is that if you are dumb enough to believe that a gun is going to "protect you" then you probably won't be around to regret believing that fallacy when it comes down to crunch time.

Only in Hollywood does the good guy manage to shoot the bad guy. In real life you are half asleep and still groping around trying to find your gun before the bad guy has reached you and then you are just showing him where to find your gun.

A gun is only useful if you are wide awake and you can clearly see your target who is exactly far away to hit from that distance and not close enough to reach you and standing completely still giving you the largest possible target.

That doesn't happen in real life.

it is true that most pistols are not very accurate beyond 10-20 feet. The point is that if you fire off 2 or 3 rounds in the general direction of the guy he will run away 99% of the time, and you just might hit him which would be a bonus. Just make sure he is inside your house when you shoot.

But like I said earlier, the best home defense weapon is a shotgun. You don't have to be real accurate and they make a big boom.

 

[Redfish]

My niece was an administrator at that school. It seems we are just about protecting gun owners, guns guns guns. Gun owners rights. I am not finding gun owners rights preempts my to exist because some whackjob can buy a friggin gun. Please.

two things
1. the second amendment
2. if guns are banned only criminals (and the government) will have guns