If God's Flood was only a regional flood...

[ABikerSailor]

.
when all matter is converted to energy to create the moment of singularity there is nothingness in a vacuum.

Ok, but where did that matter needed to convert to energy come from?

There had to be something there for the singularity to happen, to create the vacuum. My question is, where did that matter originate?

On theory is that it came from another universe entirely. Some scientists think that black holes in this universe may open up a "white hole" in another universe.

 

[Taz]

Nothing. A vacuum. A curious void.

It’s a guess, nothing more.

No. You implying that something material existed before space and time existed is a guess, Taz.

Me saying that before space and time existed there was a vacuum, a curious void which held potential is science. It's called inflation theory, Taz. Look it up.

The paradox that I find with that answer is, before space and time, what existed? You say a vacuum, but where did that vacuum come from?

Before there was a universe, there was nothing, but can you imagine nothing? It's hard to comprehend. If there was nothing, then how could there now be something. You cant create something out of absolute nothing.

You say there was a vacuum, if there was a vacuum, that means there had to be some sort of material or void to create that vacuum. Where did that material or void come from?

It's something that I have a hard time understanding because, I simply cannot imagine nothingness. My brain cannot imagine the absence of anything, because my brain comprehends that as empty space....but if there was empty space. Then there obviously was something there, and my question is, where did that something come from.

Lol, my philosophy, if you cant beat 'em, confuse 'em!

As I stated before, it seems like much more of a leap of faith to believe that all of this sprang from nothing, than to believe that all of this was created by God who has always been here. Yes, I know, the next response to that would be, "who created God", to which, I have no answer. There can only be two answers, one is that there has always been a void that just mysteriously has always existed, and from that void, an explosion happened, and from that explosion, life was created, or that God has always existed, and He created life and everything else.

Or a third answer: we simply don't know what was before the BB and are still searching.

Correct, but it is a paradox because it is a question that nobody will ever be able to answer. Nobody can ever know what existed before the universe.

So, we have 2 options, one being a theory that science cannot explain, or a history recorded in the Bible. The question is, you have to have faith to believe either one. Which one do you think is more plausible, and require a less leap of faitg?

You don't need faith to realize that we don't know what was before the BB. Making something up won't change that.

 

[james bond]

And I'm sure that you think you know. But you don't, nobody does.

In regards to Noah's Flood, the evidence is overwhelming that there was a global flood. Not local. What you believe was one hypothesis in the news.

We find that monoliths came up from the seafloor. We find fossils of sea creatures high above sea level around the world. We find rapid burial of plants and animals. There are rapidly deposited sediment layers spread across vast areas and transported long distances. Creation scientists have experiments to demonstrate what happened and it fits what we observe. Rapid or no erosion between strata. Much strata laid down in rapid succession so that rocks ended up folded and not broken.

The worldview of atheists and evolutionary thinkers is that the present is the key to the past or what I call the "religion" of uniformitarianism. To the contrary, the earth was much different from today than in the past and it was formed rapidly by catastrophism.

"Creation scientists" is an oxymoron. Got a link anyways? I could use a laugh.

Taz, I'm sorry to report that you are hellbound. It's my inner Jack Chick channeling me.

Jack Chick Cartoons on Mobile

"8 But God dremembered Noah and all the beasts and all the livestock that were with him in the ark. And eGod made a wind blow over the earth, and the waters subsided. 2 fThe fountains of the deep and fthe windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained, 3 and the waters receded from the earth continually. At the end gof 150 days the waters had abated, 4 and in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, the ark came to rest on the mountains of hArarat. 5 And the waters continued to abate until the tenth month; in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, the tops of the mountains were seen." Genesis 8:1-5

Anyway, here's evidence of the "fountains of the deep" and monoliths coming up from the seafloor. It explains why earth is 3/4 covered with water. Just rain won't do it.



Seafloor spread was found inadvertently by naval geologist Harry Hess and discussed in Bill Nye's vid on plate tectonics. However, Nye didn't know he was showing what creation scientists had been saying all along that mountains and the earth's water came from fountains of the deep and earthquake and volcanic activity, i.e. catastrophism.

 

[Taz]

It’s a guess, nothing more.

No. You implying that something material existed before space and time existed is a guess, Taz.

Me saying that before space and time existed there was a vacuum, a curious void which held potential is science. It's called inflation theory, Taz. Look it up.

The paradox that I find with that answer is, before space and time, what existed? You say a vacuum, but where did that vacuum come from?

Before there was a universe, there was nothing, but can you imagine nothing? It's hard to comprehend. If there was nothing, then how could there now be something. You cant create something out of absolute nothing.

You say there was a vacuum, if there was a vacuum, that means there had to be some sort of material or void to create that vacuum. Where did that material or void come from?

It's something that I have a hard time understanding because, I simply cannot imagine nothingness. My brain cannot imagine the absence of anything, because my brain comprehends that as empty space....but if there was empty space. Then there obviously was something there, and my question is, where did that something come from.

Lol, my philosophy, if you cant beat 'em, confuse 'em!

As I stated before, it seems like much more of a leap of faith to believe that all of this sprang from nothing, than to believe that all of this was created by God who has always been here. Yes, I know, the next response to that would be, "who created God", to which, I have no answer. There can only be two answers, one is that there has always been a void that just mysteriously has always existed, and from that void, an explosion happened, and from that explosion, life was created, or that God has always existed, and He created life and everything else.

Or a third answer: we simply don't know what was before the BB and are still searching.

Correct, but it is a paradox because it is a question that nobody will ever be able to answer. Nobody can ever know what existed before the universe.

So, we have 2 options, one being a theory that science cannot explain, or a history recorded in the Bible. The question is, you have to have faith to believe either one. Which one do you think is more plausible, and require a less leap of faitg?

The one that would require less faith to believe in would be the one that is mathematically proven.

The theory of relativity and the theories about the Big Bang can be proven mathematically. The Bible can't.

As far as what do I personally believe? I think that science will eventually prove that a Creator exists, but that is not going to come for a long time. Why do I say that? While I don't believe the Universe was created in just 7 Earth days (24 hours each), I do think that there is something out there watching over us. There are too many things in various histories that point to beings not from this planet coming down and helping us out. I mean, how could mankind in the early stages of development know what was and wasn't good to eat? They said no pork or shellfish, but they never said exactly why. Today? We know why, pork can contain parasites called trichinosis and shellfish are filter feeders and dangerous to eat in the warm months because of bacteria and algae. In the Bible, there are various laws about what you can and can't eat, but why did they come up with them? They couldn't detect bacteria and parasites back then.

As far as the Big Bang? I think that is the first verse of "Let there be Light".

And...........remember..............as Arthur C. Clarke once said, "a sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic".

"As far as the Big Bang? I think that is the first verse of "Let there be Light"." Light didn't appear in the universe until about 400 million years after the BB.

As for beings nit from this planet coming down, those are called extra-terrestrials, humans were dumb ape=like creatures for millions of years until about 100,000 years ago, when aliens started to experiment on us.

 

[Taz]

And I'm sure that you think you know. But you don't, nobody does.

In regards to Noah's Flood, the evidence is overwhelming that there was a global flood. Not local. What you believe was one hypothesis in the news.

We find that monoliths came up from the seafloor. We find fossils of sea creatures high above sea level around the world. We find rapid burial of plants and animals. There are rapidly deposited sediment layers spread across vast areas and transported long distances. Creation scientists have experiments to demonstrate what happened and it fits what we observe. Rapid or no erosion between strata. Much strata laid down in rapid succession so that rocks ended up folded and not broken.

The worldview of atheists and evolutionary thinkers is that the present is the key to the past or what I call the "religion" of uniformitarianism. To the contrary, the earth was much different from today than in the past and it was formed rapidly by catastrophism.

"Creation scientists" is an oxymoron. Got a link anyways? I could use a laugh.

Taz, I'm sorry to report that you are hellbound. It's my inner Jack Chick channeling me.

Jack Chick Cartoons on Mobile

"8 But God dremembered Noah and all the beasts and all the livestock that were with him in the ark. And eGod made a wind blow over the earth, and the waters subsided. 2 fThe fountains of the deep and fthe windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained, 3 and the waters receded from the earth continually. At the end gof 150 days the waters had abated, 4 and in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, the ark came to rest on the mountains of hArarat. 5 And the waters continued to abate until the tenth month; in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, the tops of the mountains were seen." Genesis 8:1-5

Anyway, here's evidence of the "fountains of the deep" and monoliths coming up from the seafloor. It explains why earth is 3/4 covered with water. Just rain won't do it.



Seafloor spread was found inadvertently by naval geologist Harry Hess and discussed in Bill Nye's vid on plate tectonics. However, Nye didn't know he was showing what creation scientists had been saying all along that mountains and the earth's water came from fountains of the deep and earthquake and volcanic activity, i.e. catastrophism.

There's is no scientific evidence for what you claim. No geologic evidence either. Plate tectonics don't explain a 40 day flood either. Creation science is an oxymoron, there's nothing scientific about it.

 

[ABikerSailor]

No. You implying that something material existed before space and time existed is a guess, Taz.

Me saying that before space and time existed there was a vacuum, a curious void which held potential is science. It's called inflation theory, Taz. Look it up.

The paradox that I find with that answer is, before space and time, what existed? You say a vacuum, but where did that vacuum come from?

Before there was a universe, there was nothing, but can you imagine nothing? It's hard to comprehend. If there was nothing, then how could there now be something. You cant create something out of absolute nothing.

You say there was a vacuum, if there was a vacuum, that means there had to be some sort of material or void to create that vacuum. Where did that material or void come from?

It's something that I have a hard time understanding because, I simply cannot imagine nothingness. My brain cannot imagine the absence of anything, because my brain comprehends that as empty space....but if there was empty space. Then there obviously was something there, and my question is, where did that something come from.

Lol, my philosophy, if you cant beat 'em, confuse 'em!

As I stated before, it seems like much more of a leap of faith to believe that all of this sprang from nothing, than to believe that all of this was created by God who has always been here. Yes, I know, the next response to that would be, "who created God", to which, I have no answer. There can only be two answers, one is that there has always been a void that just mysteriously has always existed, and from that void, an explosion happened, and from that explosion, life was created, or that God has always existed, and He created life and everything else.

Or a third answer: we simply don't know what was before the BB and are still searching.

Correct, but it is a paradox because it is a question that nobody will ever be able to answer. Nobody can ever know what existed before the universe.

So, we have 2 options, one being a theory that science cannot explain, or a history recorded in the Bible. The question is, you have to have faith to believe either one. Which one do you think is more plausible, and require a less leap of faitg?

The one that would require less faith to believe in would be the one that is mathematically proven.

The theory of relativity and the theories about the Big Bang can be proven mathematically. The Bible can't.

As far as what do I personally believe? I think that science will eventually prove that a Creator exists, but that is not going to come for a long time. Why do I say that? While I don't believe the Universe was created in just 7 Earth days (24 hours each), I do think that there is something out there watching over us. There are too many things in various histories that point to beings not from this planet coming down and helping us out. I mean, how could mankind in the early stages of development know what was and wasn't good to eat? They said no pork or shellfish, but they never said exactly why. Today? We know why, pork can contain parasites called trichinosis and shellfish are filter feeders and dangerous to eat in the warm months because of bacteria and algae. In the Bible, there are various laws about what you can and can't eat, but why did they come up with them? They couldn't detect bacteria and parasites back then.

As far as the Big Bang? I think that is the first verse of "Let there be Light".

And...........remember..............as Arthur C. Clarke once said, "a sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic".

"As far as the Big Bang? I think that is the first verse of "Let there be Light"." Light didn't appear in the universe until about 400 million years after the BB.

As for beings nit from this planet coming down, those are called extra-terrestrials, humans were dumb ape=like creatures for millions of years until about 100,000 years ago, when aliens started to experiment on us.

Guess you missed the part where I said I didn't believe it happened in 7 24 hour periods. While I do think that things may have developed as the Bible says, I don't think it was in that short of a timeline, but rather a much longer one.

Saw something on a show called "Naked Archaeologist" (was a good show btw, if you can find it online, watch a bit) once where he was talking about the timeline of Creation, and how in some of the things that refer to it from archaeology, the week of creation was more like a millenium.

 

[Taz]

The paradox that I find with that answer is, before space and time, what existed? You say a vacuum, but where did that vacuum come from?

Before there was a universe, there was nothing, but can you imagine nothing? It's hard to comprehend. If there was nothing, then how could there now be something. You cant create something out of absolute nothing.

You say there was a vacuum, if there was a vacuum, that means there had to be some sort of material or void to create that vacuum. Where did that material or void come from?

It's something that I have a hard time understanding because, I simply cannot imagine nothingness. My brain cannot imagine the absence of anything, because my brain comprehends that as empty space....but if there was empty space. Then there obviously was something there, and my question is, where did that something come from.

Lol, my philosophy, if you cant beat 'em, confuse 'em!

As I stated before, it seems like much more of a leap of faith to believe that all of this sprang from nothing, than to believe that all of this was created by God who has always been here. Yes, I know, the next response to that would be, "who created God", to which, I have no answer. There can only be two answers, one is that there has always been a void that just mysteriously has always existed, and from that void, an explosion happened, and from that explosion, life was created, or that God has always existed, and He created life and everything else.

Or a third answer: we simply don't know what was before the BB and are still searching.

Correct, but it is a paradox because it is a question that nobody will ever be able to answer. Nobody can ever know what existed before the universe.

So, we have 2 options, one being a theory that science cannot explain, or a history recorded in the Bible. The question is, you have to have faith to believe either one. Which one do you think is more plausible, and require a less leap of faitg?

The one that would require less faith to believe in would be the one that is mathematically proven.

The theory of relativity and the theories about the Big Bang can be proven mathematically. The Bible can't.

As far as what do I personally believe? I think that science will eventually prove that a Creator exists, but that is not going to come for a long time. Why do I say that? While I don't believe the Universe was created in just 7 Earth days (24 hours each), I do think that there is something out there watching over us. There are too many things in various histories that point to beings not from this planet coming down and helping us out. I mean, how could mankind in the early stages of development know what was and wasn't good to eat? They said no pork or shellfish, but they never said exactly why. Today? We know why, pork can contain parasites called trichinosis and shellfish are filter feeders and dangerous to eat in the warm months because of bacteria and algae. In the Bible, there are various laws about what you can and can't eat, but why did they come up with them? They couldn't detect bacteria and parasites back then.

As far as the Big Bang? I think that is the first verse of "Let there be Light".

And...........remember..............as Arthur C. Clarke once said, "a sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic".

"As far as the Big Bang? I think that is the first verse of "Let there be Light"." Light didn't appear in the universe until about 400 million years after the BB.

As for beings nit from this planet coming down, those are called extra-terrestrials, humans were dumb ape=like creatures for millions of years until about 100,000 years ago, when aliens started to experiment on us.

Guess you missed the part where I said I didn't believe it happened in 7 24 hour periods. While I do think that things may have developed as the Bible says, I don't think it was in that short of a timeline, but rather a much longer one.

Saw something on a show called "Naked Archaeologist" (was a good show btw, if you can find it online, watch a bit) once where he was talking about the timeline of Creation, and how in some of the things that refer to it from archaeology, the week of creation was more like a millenium.

So to make the bible make sense, you have to cherry pick the meanings, and the ones you can't wrap your head around, you change. Quite a few people here do that.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Or a third answer: we simply don't know what was before the BB and are still searching.

Correct, but it is a paradox because it is a question that nobody will ever be able to answer. Nobody can ever know what existed before the universe.

So, we have 2 options, one being a theory that science cannot explain, or a history recorded in the Bible. The question is, you have to have faith to believe either one. Which one do you think is more plausible, and require a less leap of faitg?

The one that would require less faith to believe in would be the one that is mathematically proven.

The theory of relativity and the theories about the Big Bang can be proven mathematically. The Bible can't.

As far as what do I personally believe? I think that science will eventually prove that a Creator exists, but that is not going to come for a long time. Why do I say that? While I don't believe the Universe was created in just 7 Earth days (24 hours each), I do think that there is something out there watching over us. There are too many things in various histories that point to beings not from this planet coming down and helping us out. I mean, how could mankind in the early stages of development know what was and wasn't good to eat? They said no pork or shellfish, but they never said exactly why. Today? We know why, pork can contain parasites called trichinosis and shellfish are filter feeders and dangerous to eat in the warm months because of bacteria and algae. In the Bible, there are various laws about what you can and can't eat, but why did they come up with them? They couldn't detect bacteria and parasites back then.

As far as the Big Bang? I think that is the first verse of "Let there be Light".

And...........remember..............as Arthur C. Clarke once said, "a sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic".

"As far as the Big Bang? I think that is the first verse of "Let there be Light"." Light didn't appear in the universe until about 400 million years after the BB.

As for beings nit from this planet coming down, those are called extra-terrestrials, humans were dumb ape=like creatures for millions of years until about 100,000 years ago, when aliens started to experiment on us.

Guess you missed the part where I said I didn't believe it happened in 7 24 hour periods. While I do think that things may have developed as the Bible says, I don't think it was in that short of a timeline, but rather a much longer one.

Saw something on a show called "Naked Archaeologist" (was a good show btw, if you can find it online, watch a bit) once where he was talking about the timeline of Creation, and how in some of the things that refer to it from archaeology, the week of creation was more like a millenium.

So to make the bible make sense, you have to cherry pick the meanings, and the ones you can't wrap your head around, you change. Quite a few people here do that.

I never said that the Bible made sense. Matter of fact, one of the things that I learned from Jewish scholars is that much of the Bible's meaning is wrapped up in parables, or stories that make a point. Jesus knew this, which is why He was able to debate with the rabbis in the Temple, as well as that was the reason why He spoke in parables as well.

However..................in my personal life, I have seen things that are evidence to me that God exists, and I think that eventually, there will be enough science to prove that He does.

 

[BreezeWood]

.
when all matter is converted to energy to create the moment of singularity there is nothingness in a vacuum.

Ok, but where did that matter needed to convert to energy come from?

There had to be something there for the singularity to happen, to create the vacuum. My question is, where did that matter originate?

.
BB is cyclical, from matter to energy - there is nothingness when all is momentarily energy - then the violent transition back to matter.

 

[ChesBayJJ]

And I'm sure that you think you know. But you don't, nobody does.

In regards to Noah's Flood, the evidence is overwhelming that there was a global flood. Not local. What you believe was one hypothesis in the news.

We find that monoliths came up from the seafloor. We find fossils of sea creatures high above sea level around the world. We find rapid burial of plants and animals. There are rapidly deposited sediment layers spread across vast areas and transported long distances. Creation scientists have experiments to demonstrate what happened and it fits what we observe. Rapid or no erosion between strata. Much strata laid down in rapid succession so that rocks ended up folded and not broken.

The worldview of atheists and evolutionary thinkers is that the present is the key to the past or what I call the "religion" of uniformitarianism. To the contrary, the earth was much different from today than in the past and it was formed rapidly by catastrophism.

There is no overwhelming evidence of a global flood that completely covered the earth.

Your fossils up in mountains is the result of tectonics. All the things you mention are easily explained.

And please, tell us about these creation scientist experiments.. Do you have a link?

 

[Taz]

Correct, but it is a paradox because it is a question that nobody will ever be able to answer. Nobody can ever know what existed before the universe.

So, we have 2 options, one being a theory that science cannot explain, or a history recorded in the Bible. The question is, you have to have faith to believe either one. Which one do you think is more plausible, and require a less leap of faitg?

The one that would require less faith to believe in would be the one that is mathematically proven.

The theory of relativity and the theories about the Big Bang can be proven mathematically. The Bible can't.

As far as what do I personally believe? I think that science will eventually prove that a Creator exists, but that is not going to come for a long time. Why do I say that? While I don't believe the Universe was created in just 7 Earth days (24 hours each), I do think that there is something out there watching over us. There are too many things in various histories that point to beings not from this planet coming down and helping us out. I mean, how could mankind in the early stages of development know what was and wasn't good to eat? They said no pork or shellfish, but they never said exactly why. Today? We know why, pork can contain parasites called trichinosis and shellfish are filter feeders and dangerous to eat in the warm months because of bacteria and algae. In the Bible, there are various laws about what you can and can't eat, but why did they come up with them? They couldn't detect bacteria and parasites back then.

As far as the Big Bang? I think that is the first verse of "Let there be Light".

And...........remember..............as Arthur C. Clarke once said, "a sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic".

"As far as the Big Bang? I think that is the first verse of "Let there be Light"." Light didn't appear in the universe until about 400 million years after the BB.

As for beings nit from this planet coming down, those are called extra-terrestrials, humans were dumb ape=like creatures for millions of years until about 100,000 years ago, when aliens started to experiment on us.

Guess you missed the part where I said I didn't believe it happened in 7 24 hour periods. While I do think that things may have developed as the Bible says, I don't think it was in that short of a timeline, but rather a much longer one.

Saw something on a show called "Naked Archaeologist" (was a good show btw, if you can find it online, watch a bit) once where he was talking about the timeline of Creation, and how in some of the things that refer to it from archaeology, the week of creation was more like a millenium.

So to make the bible make sense, you have to cherry pick the meanings, and the ones you can't wrap your head around, you change. Quite a few people here do that.

I never said that the Bible made sense. Matter of fact, one of the things that I learned from Jewish scholars is that much of the Bible's meaning is wrapped up in parables, or stories that make a point. Jesus knew this, which is why He was able to debate with the rabbis in the Temple, as well as that was the reason why He spoke in parables as well.

However..................in my personal life, I have seen things that are evidence to me that God exists, and I think that eventually, there will be enough science to prove that He does.

There's no actual proof that Jesus did or said what is written in the bible. It's all hearsay. As for your own evidence of god, that's pretty meaningless, just saying.

 

[ABikerSailor]

The one that would require less faith to believe in would be the one that is mathematically proven.

The theory of relativity and the theories about the Big Bang can be proven mathematically. The Bible can't.

As far as what do I personally believe? I think that science will eventually prove that a Creator exists, but that is not going to come for a long time. Why do I say that? While I don't believe the Universe was created in just 7 Earth days (24 hours each), I do think that there is something out there watching over us. There are too many things in various histories that point to beings not from this planet coming down and helping us out. I mean, how could mankind in the early stages of development know what was and wasn't good to eat? They said no pork or shellfish, but they never said exactly why. Today? We know why, pork can contain parasites called trichinosis and shellfish are filter feeders and dangerous to eat in the warm months because of bacteria and algae. In the Bible, there are various laws about what you can and can't eat, but why did they come up with them? They couldn't detect bacteria and parasites back then.

As far as the Big Bang? I think that is the first verse of "Let there be Light".

And...........remember..............as Arthur C. Clarke once said, "a sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic".

"As far as the Big Bang? I think that is the first verse of "Let there be Light"." Light didn't appear in the universe until about 400 million years after the BB.

As for beings nit from this planet coming down, those are called extra-terrestrials, humans were dumb ape=like creatures for millions of years until about 100,000 years ago, when aliens started to experiment on us.

Guess you missed the part where I said I didn't believe it happened in 7 24 hour periods. While I do think that things may have developed as the Bible says, I don't think it was in that short of a timeline, but rather a much longer one.

Saw something on a show called "Naked Archaeologist" (was a good show btw, if you can find it online, watch a bit) once where he was talking about the timeline of Creation, and how in some of the things that refer to it from archaeology, the week of creation was more like a millenium.

So to make the bible make sense, you have to cherry pick the meanings, and the ones you can't wrap your head around, you change. Quite a few people here do that.

I never said that the Bible made sense. Matter of fact, one of the things that I learned from Jewish scholars is that much of the Bible's meaning is wrapped up in parables, or stories that make a point. Jesus knew this, which is why He was able to debate with the rabbis in the Temple, as well as that was the reason why He spoke in parables as well.

However..................in my personal life, I have seen things that are evidence to me that God exists, and I think that eventually, there will be enough science to prove that He does.

There's no actual proof that Jesus did or said what is written in the bible. It's all hearsay. As for your own evidence of god, that's pretty meaningless, just saying.

Well, to YOU it might seem meaningless, but to me it was proof that there was some kind of Higher Power watching over me. Several things have happened, and that is why I believe in God. I can't prove to you that He exists, but the evidence in my life makes me say He does.

 

[Taz]

"As far as the Big Bang? I think that is the first verse of "Let there be Light"." Light didn't appear in the universe until about 400 million years after the BB.

As for beings nit from this planet coming down, those are called extra-terrestrials, humans were dumb ape=like creatures for millions of years until about 100,000 years ago, when aliens started to experiment on us.

Guess you missed the part where I said I didn't believe it happened in 7 24 hour periods. While I do think that things may have developed as the Bible says, I don't think it was in that short of a timeline, but rather a much longer one.

Saw something on a show called "Naked Archaeologist" (was a good show btw, if you can find it online, watch a bit) once where he was talking about the timeline of Creation, and how in some of the things that refer to it from archaeology, the week of creation was more like a millenium.

So to make the bible make sense, you have to cherry pick the meanings, and the ones you can't wrap your head around, you change. Quite a few people here do that.

I never said that the Bible made sense. Matter of fact, one of the things that I learned from Jewish scholars is that much of the Bible's meaning is wrapped up in parables, or stories that make a point. Jesus knew this, which is why He was able to debate with the rabbis in the Temple, as well as that was the reason why He spoke in parables as well.

However..................in my personal life, I have seen things that are evidence to me that God exists, and I think that eventually, there will be enough science to prove that He does.

There's no actual proof that Jesus did or said what is written in the bible. It's all hearsay. As for your own evidence of god, that's pretty meaningless, just saying.

Well, to YOU it might seem meaningless, but to me it was proof that there was some kind of Higher Power watching over me. Several things have happened, and that is why I believe in God. I can't prove to you that He exists, but the evidence in my life makes me say He does.

So what happened?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Guess you missed the part where I said I didn't believe it happened in 7 24 hour periods. While I do think that things may have developed as the Bible says, I don't think it was in that short of a timeline, but rather a much longer one.

Saw something on a show called "Naked Archaeologist" (was a good show btw, if you can find it online, watch a bit) once where he was talking about the timeline of Creation, and how in some of the things that refer to it from archaeology, the week of creation was more like a millenium.

So to make the bible make sense, you have to cherry pick the meanings, and the ones you can't wrap your head around, you change. Quite a few people here do that.

I never said that the Bible made sense. Matter of fact, one of the things that I learned from Jewish scholars is that much of the Bible's meaning is wrapped up in parables, or stories that make a point. Jesus knew this, which is why He was able to debate with the rabbis in the Temple, as well as that was the reason why He spoke in parables as well.

However..................in my personal life, I have seen things that are evidence to me that God exists, and I think that eventually, there will be enough science to prove that He does.

There's no actual proof that Jesus did or said what is written in the bible. It's all hearsay. As for your own evidence of god, that's pretty meaningless, just saying.

Well, to YOU it might seem meaningless, but to me it was proof that there was some kind of Higher Power watching over me. Several things have happened, and that is why I believe in God. I can't prove to you that He exists, but the evidence in my life makes me say He does.

So what happened?

Well, in the summer between my junior and senior years of high school, I decided that I didn't want to live with my foster family anymore, because they were using me for a paycheck, rather than treating me like a member of the family. I was getting hand me down clothes, and my foster brother was getting new clothes. Well, came to find out that the mother was buying new clothes for Kenny, and sending in the receipts to the foster organization, claiming they were for me. She also nixed an outdoor summer camp that the foster organization was going to pay for, because Kenny couldn't go.

Well, I ran away a couple of times before that, but always ended up being forced back. This time, when I ran away, Vince (my caseworker) told me that if I didn't go back, I would have to pay to stay at the runaway home. So, I told him I'd go back. As luck would have it, the bus from Helena Mt. to Missoulla Mt was running a bit early, and I missed getting on the bus. I then called Vince and told him what happened. He told me to stay at the station until the next bus left for Missoulla.

Since I didn't really want to go back, I asked the ticket agent how much to go to Chicago. He said 300 dollars, which I didn't have. I then asked where the next bus was going and he said Great Falls (which is where my Grandparents lived). I asked how much, and he said 25 bucks. Well, I had around 30 on me, so I got a ticket and went to Great Falls. When I got there, I started to head towards Vaughn (small town outside Great Falls where my Grandparents were, about 10 miles away), and because I still had money, I stopped at a truck stop on the edge of town to get something to eat.

On my way out, crossing the parking lot, 3 college kids stopped and asked if I needed a ride. I said sure, I'm going to Vaughn, and would like to be let out there.

They then told me they were college guys headed back to Missoulla, and would take me all the way there if I wanted. I said no, Vaughn would be fine, and that is where I got out.

That is just one example in my life where I feel God was offering me a choice for what I wanted to do with my life. If I had stayed, I would have had a full ride to college, but because I ran away to go back to my Grandparents, that option was no more.

I ended up joining the military and haven't regretted it since.

 

[ding]

You don’t know what was before the B.B. post a link, if you dare.

Nothing. A vacuum. A curious void.

It’s a guess, nothing more.

No. You implying that something material existed before space and time existed is a guess, Taz.

Me saying that before space and time existed there was a vacuum, a curious void which held potential is science. It's called inflation theory, Taz. Look it up.

The paradox that I find with that answer is, before space and time, what existed? You say a vacuum, but where did that vacuum come from?

Before there was a universe, there was nothing, but can you imagine nothing? It's hard to comprehend. If there was nothing, then how could there now be something. You cant create something out of absolute nothing.

You say there was a vacuum, if there was a vacuum, that means there had to be some sort of material or void to create that vacuum. Where did that material or void come from?

It's something that I have a hard time understanding because, I simply cannot imagine nothingness. My brain cannot imagine the absence of anything, because my brain comprehends that as empty space....but if there was empty space. Then there obviously was something there, and my question is, where did that something come from.

Lol, my philosophy, if you cant beat 'em, confuse 'em!

As I stated before, it seems like much more of a leap of faith to believe that all of this sprang from nothing, than to believe that all of this was created by God who has always been here. Yes, I know, the next response to that would be, "who created God", to which, I have no answer. There can only be two answers, one is that there has always been a void that just mysteriously has always existed, and from that void, an explosion happened, and from that explosion, life was created, or that God has always existed, and He created life and everything else.

Or a third answer: we simply don't know what was before the BB and are still searching.

Don't be silly, Taz. We know space and time were created ~14 billion years ago.

What existed before that was a vacuum; a curious void which contained potential.

 

[ding]

No. You implying that something material existed before space and time existed is a guess, Taz.

Me saying that before space and time existed there was a vacuum, a curious void which held potential is science. It's called inflation theory, Taz. Look it up.

Inflation theory is for when the BB happened. Look it up.

"You implying that something material existed before space and time existed is a guess, Taz. " No, I'm stating for the record that we don't know what was before the BB. Theories yes, facts, no.

Yes, and before inflation there was a vacuum; a curious void which held potential.

What existed before inflation were the laws of nature.

It's a theory among others. None are proven as of today. But why do you insist on saying that things are fact when you know that they aren't? Aren't you supposed to be an engineer?

You believe the theory of evolution is fact, right?

I think that evolution is a natural process and that that has been proven. The steps in man's evolution are somewhat there but aren't completely worked out. it's not just a theory, some parts still are rather theoretical, sure, but some aren't.

All according to the laws of nature which existed before space and time.

 

[ding]

You need a site that says that before something began there was nothing before it?

What existed before space and time were the laws of nature.

I've provided the links to you dozens of times. You haven't read or watched them yet.

You don’t know what was before the B.B. post a link, if you dare.

Nothing. A vacuum. A curious void.

It’s a guess, nothing more.

No. You implying that something material existed before space and time existed is a guess, Taz.

Me saying that before space and time existed there was a vacuum, a curious void which held potential is science. It's called inflation theory, Taz. Look it up.

The paradox that I find with that answer is, before space and time, what existed? You say a vacuum, but where did that vacuum come from?

Before there was a universe, there was nothing, but can you imagine nothing? It's hard to comprehend. If there was nothing, then how could there now be something. You cant create something out of absolute nothing.

You say there was a vacuum, if there was a vacuum, that means there had to be some sort of material or void to create that vacuum. Where did that material or void come from?

It's something that I have a hard time understanding because, I simply cannot imagine nothingness. My brain cannot imagine the absence of anything, because my brain comprehends that as empty space....but if there was empty space. Then there obviously was something there, and my question is, where did that something come from.

Lol, my philosophy, if you cant beat 'em, confuse 'em!

As I stated before, it seems like much more of a leap of faith to believe that all of this sprang from nothing, than to believe that all of this was created by God who has always been here. Yes, I know, the next response to that would be, "who created God", to which, I have no answer. There can only be two answers, one is that there has always been a void that just mysteriously has always existed, and from that void, an explosion happened, and from that explosion, life was created, or that God has always existed, and He created life and everything else.

The best explanation for how the universe began is the inflation model. It is possible for matter to have a beginning. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

 

[ding]

You need a site that says that before something began there was nothing before it?

What existed before space and time were the laws of nature.

I've provided the links to you dozens of times. You haven't read or watched them yet.

You don’t know what was before the B.B. post a link, if you dare.

Nothing. A vacuum. A curious void.

It’s a guess, nothing more.

No. You implying that something material existed before space and time existed is a guess, Taz.

Me saying that before space and time existed there was a vacuum, a curious void which held potential is science. It's called inflation theory, Taz. Look it up.

The paradox that I find with that answer is, before space and time, what existed? You say a vacuum, but where did that vacuum come from?

Before there was a universe, there was nothing, but can you imagine nothing? It's hard to comprehend. If there was nothing, then how could there now be something. You cant create something out of absolute nothing.

You say there was a vacuum, if there was a vacuum, that means there had to be some sort of material or void to create that vacuum. Where did that material or void come from?

It's something that I have a hard time understanding because, I simply cannot imagine nothingness. My brain cannot imagine the absence of anything, because my brain comprehends that as empty space....but if there was empty space. Then there obviously was something there, and my question is, where did that something come from.

Lol, my philosophy, if you cant beat 'em, confuse 'em!

As I stated before, it seems like much more of a leap of faith to believe that all of this sprang from nothing, than to believe that all of this was created by God who has always been here. Yes, I know, the next response to that would be, "who created God", to which, I have no answer. There can only be two answers, one is that there has always been a void that just mysteriously has always existed, and from that void, an explosion happened, and from that explosion, life was created, or that God has always existed, and He created life and everything else.

The only solution to the first cause conundrum of what came first is something which has always existed and never has not existed. In other words, something which is eternal. For something to be eternal it must be unchanging.

Some may ask what could this possibly be? For any given thing there is a final state of fact. We call this objective truth or reality. Once discovered it is known that it was always that way and will always be that way. In other words, it is eternal and unchanging. This we know to be God. Ergo God is existence.

So for something to be eternal and unchanging it cannot be material. Why? Because matter and energy constantly seek an equilibrium and cannot be unchanging and therefore cannot be eternal.

The best answer one can give to the first cause is thought or intelligence.

The OT provides a glimpse of this when Moses asked God's name and his answer was "I am."

I am is statement of existence.

 

[Taz]

So to make the bible make sense, you have to cherry pick the meanings, and the ones you can't wrap your head around, you change. Quite a few people here do that.

I never said that the Bible made sense. Matter of fact, one of the things that I learned from Jewish scholars is that much of the Bible's meaning is wrapped up in parables, or stories that make a point. Jesus knew this, which is why He was able to debate with the rabbis in the Temple, as well as that was the reason why He spoke in parables as well.

However..................in my personal life, I have seen things that are evidence to me that God exists, and I think that eventually, there will be enough science to prove that He does.

There's no actual proof that Jesus did or said what is written in the bible. It's all hearsay. As for your own evidence of god, that's pretty meaningless, just saying.

Well, to YOU it might seem meaningless, but to me it was proof that there was some kind of Higher Power watching over me. Several things have happened, and that is why I believe in God. I can't prove to you that He exists, but the evidence in my life makes me say He does.

So what happened?

Well, in the summer between my junior and senior years of high school, I decided that I didn't want to live with my foster family anymore, because they were using me for a paycheck, rather than treating me like a member of the family. I was getting hand me down clothes, and my foster brother was getting new clothes. Well, came to find out that the mother was buying new clothes for Kenny, and sending in the receipts to the foster organization, claiming they were for me. She also nixed an outdoor summer camp that the foster organization was going to pay for, because Kenny couldn't go.

Well, I ran away a couple of times before that, but always ended up being forced back. This time, when I ran away, Vince (my caseworker) told me that if I didn't go back, I would have to pay to stay at the runaway home. So, I told him I'd go back. As luck would have it, the bus from Helena Mt. to Missoulla Mt was running a bit early, and I missed getting on the bus. I then called Vince and told him what happened. He told me to stay at the station until the next bus left for Missoulla.

Since I didn't really want to go back, I asked the ticket agent how much to go to Chicago. He said 300 dollars, which I didn't have. I then asked where the next bus was going and he said Great Falls (which is where my Grandparents lived). I asked how much, and he said 25 bucks. Well, I had around 30 on me, so I got a ticket and went to Great Falls. When I got there, I started to head towards Vaughn (small town outside Great Falls where my Grandparents were, about 10 miles away), and because I still had money, I stopped at a truck stop on the edge of town to get something to eat.

On my way out, crossing the parking lot, 3 college kids stopped and asked if I needed a ride. I said sure, I'm going to Vaughn, and would like to be let out there.

They then told me they were college guys headed back to Missoulla, and would take me all the way there if I wanted. I said no, Vaughn would be fine, and that is where I got out.

That is just one example in my life where I feel God was offering me a choice for what I wanted to do with my life. If I had stayed, I would have had a full ride to college, but because I ran away to go back to my Grandparents, that option was no more.

I ended up joining the military and haven't regretted it since.

Inane god story.

 

[Taz]

Nothing. A vacuum. A curious void.

It’s a guess, nothing more.

No. You implying that something material existed before space and time existed is a guess, Taz.

Me saying that before space and time existed there was a vacuum, a curious void which held potential is science. It's called inflation theory, Taz. Look it up.

The paradox that I find with that answer is, before space and time, what existed? You say a vacuum, but where did that vacuum come from?

Before there was a universe, there was nothing, but can you imagine nothing? It's hard to comprehend. If there was nothing, then how could there now be something. You cant create something out of absolute nothing.

You say there was a vacuum, if there was a vacuum, that means there had to be some sort of material or void to create that vacuum. Where did that material or void come from?

It's something that I have a hard time understanding because, I simply cannot imagine nothingness. My brain cannot imagine the absence of anything, because my brain comprehends that as empty space....but if there was empty space. Then there obviously was something there, and my question is, where did that something come from.

Lol, my philosophy, if you cant beat 'em, confuse 'em!

As I stated before, it seems like much more of a leap of faith to believe that all of this sprang from nothing, than to believe that all of this was created by God who has always been here. Yes, I know, the next response to that would be, "who created God", to which, I have no answer. There can only be two answers, one is that there has always been a void that just mysteriously has always existed, and from that void, an explosion happened, and from that explosion, life was created, or that God has always existed, and He created life and everything else.

Or a third answer: we simply don't know what was before the BB and are still searching.

Don't be silly, Taz. We know space and time were created ~14 billion years ago.

What existed before that was a vacuum; a curious void which contained potential.

Can you prove the vacuum? No, you can’t.