Zone1 If God were real, you wouldn’t need a book

Elijah has yet to die. The two men who will preach and be killed are Enoch and Elijah. Both at the same time. < Because it is for every man to die once. Those 2 have not.
3 and 1/2 days is significant.
Please continue:
When was all life on earth nearly destroyed in the first century, and what swords could melt the skin off the bone and dry the eyes in the sockets?
When was the Mt. of Olives split in two? It still looks ok to me.
The return of Christ is to prevent us from destroying life on earth, because we can do that NOW, but not then. If it is a fait accompli, how was His millennial reign, and where is He? And why is Satan free to roam to and fro? Jesus was supposed to chain him.
You have to be able to answer those questions as per the 1st century.
The events you mention are mentioned in the book of Zechariah, which paint a picture. Revelation does not specifically mention the Mount of Olives, and the imagery is a metaphor/reminder of God's divine intervention.

My own studies brought me to what is known as the "mixed view" of Revelation, where John sees events of the past being replicated time and again--a circle/cycle of historical life on Earth.

John is reminding everyone that God came through in the past, how he was there for them in the present day, and will be during future times as well. He did this using a literary style popular in his day: Apocryphal literature.
 
The events you mention are mentioned in the book of Zechariah, which paint a picture. Revelation does not specifically mention the Mount of Olives, and the imagery is a metaphor/reminder of God's divine intervention.

My own studies brought me to what is known as the "mixed view" of Revelation, where John sees events of the past being replicated time and again--a circle/cycle of historical life on Earth.

John is reminding everyone that God came through in the past, how he was there for them in the present day, and will be during future times as well. He did this using a literary style popular in his day: Apocryphal literature.
The value of which is to learn how to trust God. Which is especially true when things aren't going especially well. I have increasing come to believe that rather than me trying to solve problems such as disagreements with loved ones - which is not trusting God - I should sit back and wait to see how God resolve's it. Much to my surprise it works like a charm. So rather than getting worked up, I am super relaxed and calm and say to myself, "ok, God, how are you going to fix this one."
 
The value of which is to learn how to trust God. Which is especially true when things aren't going especially well. I have increasing come to believe that rather than me trying to solve problems such as disagreements with loved ones - which is not trusting God - I should sit back and wait to see how God resolve's it. Much to my surprise it works like a charm. So rather than getting worked up, I am super relaxed and calm and say to myself, "ok, God, how are you going to fix this one."
Now, that is wisdom!
 
What evidence do you require?
To believe a magical God is divining information to humans?

A LOT. That is an extraordinary, magical claim that requires extraordinary evidence.

No, you have not come close. Nor will you, because it is magical nonsense.
 
To believe a magical God is divining information to humans?

A LOT. That is an extraordinary, magical claim that requires extraordinary evidence.

No, you have not come close. Nor will you, because it is magical nonsense.
You waste a lot of time discussing things you don't believe are real.
 
To believe a magical God is divining information to humans?

A LOT. That is an extraordinary, magical claim that requires extraordinary evidence.

No, you have not come close. Nor will you, because it is magical nonsense.
If you don't need God to divine information, then humans must be able to tell the future. Regale me...

The events you mention are mentioned in the book of Zechariah, which paint a picture
The picture it paints is the return of Christ, and where. And it goes on to tell us that when Christ's feet touch down on the Mt. of Olives it will create a massive earthquake:
Zechariah 14:4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south.

It need not say Mt. of Olives in Rev. because Zechariah already laid out the location. If these things took place in the first century then you should be able to answer all of these questions in depth:

Can you name some other mountain that Christ may have returned to that split in half in the 1st century? Because the 2-mile stretch of the Mt. of Olives is still intact, the same as it was before the 1st. Century til now.

Zechariah goes on to tell us what happens next:
Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with Him
How many came with Him? Can you name a few? And then Christ goes out and fights for Jerusalem? The biggest battle this earth has ever seen, and no one in the 1st. Century thought this was newsworthy enough to document?

For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle.
Any historical evidence that this battle already took place? 13 out of 14 times Jerusalem has been involved in war, the invaders were successful. No mention by anybody of Jesus fighting in any of them.

After the battle, Christ sets up shop for good in Jerusalem. Why can't I find Him there? Why is He awol?

What terrible weapons in the 1st century had the capacity to destroy all life on this planet? Because that is when and why Christ returns to prevent that very thing.

What first century battle did Christ win, and where did it take place? And who are those the Bible says will fight at the battle of good and evil at Armageddon? < A 1st. Century event? < If that's correct, then evil won the battle, because Satan is still going to and fro.

Folks, If we want to understand the Bible we just need to read what it says, and NOT turn every sentence into a metaphor, an allegory, a symbol, an allusion, imagery, and all the rest of the literary devices. If Jesus used a symbol, He clarified it for the disciples.
If the Bible says an earthquake will happen when Christ touches down, it means an earthquake will happen when Christ touches down. Look for that, not some metaphor for what it might mean...
 
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To believe a magical God is divining information to humans?

A LOT. That is an extraordinary, magical claim that requires extraordinary evidence.

No, you have not come close. Nor will you, because it is magical nonsense.
Prophesy is extra_ordinary. So much so, that none of us can do it...
 
If you don't need God to divine information, then humans must be able to tell the future.
No, humans just sometimes guess correctly.

And sometimes people lie and say someone made a prediction they did not make.

See what magical thinking does to your mind? You can't think critically.
 
The CLAIM is extraordinary.

The evidence is nonexistent.
Evidence for Jewish prophecies being true includes historical, geographical, and archaeological findings that align with biblical predictions. Key examples include the survival of the Jewish people despite global exile, the desolation and subsequent agricultural blooming of the land of Israel, the expansion of modern Jerusalem beyond ancient walls, and the fall of ancient nations like Edom.

Key Evidence and Fulfilled Prophecies
  • Exile and Return (Deuteronomy 30:1-5): Prophecies predicted that the Jewish people would be exiled but ultimately return to the land of Israel, a phenomenon realized in modern history.
  • The Land of Israel (Isaiah 41): Isaiah predicted that the land would be barren and desolate while the Jewish people were in exile and would flourish upon their return, matching the agricultural transformation of the land.
  • Destruction of Ancient Nations (Jeremiah 46): Jeremiah prophesied the destruction of nations like Ammon, Moab, and Edom, which no longer exist today, while predicting that Egypt would remain, but diminished, which has come to pass.
  • Expansion of Jerusalem (Zechariah 2): Zechariah predicted that Jerusalem would expand far beyond its original walls.
  • Messianic Expectations and Fulfillment:
    • Birthplace: Micah 5:2 predicted the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem.
    • Timing: Daniel 9 predicted the timeline of the Messiah's arrival, which many argue was fulfilled in the first century.
    • Trial and Death: Psalm 22 and Zechariah 12:10 predicted a death involving piercing and betrayal for 30 pieces of silver, which are often cited in relation to Jesus’ crucifixion.
Archaeological and Historical Context
  • Babylonian Exile (Jeremiah 25:11-12): Jeremiah predicted that Babylon would rule over Judah for 70 years and eventually fall, which aligns with historical records.
  • Persian Ruler Cyrus (Isaiah 45:1): Isaiah predicted that the Babylonian gates would open for Cyrus the Great, occurring centuries after the prophecy was written.
  • Existence of Prophets: Archaeological findings, such as the inscription at Deir Alla mentioning Balaam and a, shard of pottery at Tel Rehov mentioning Elisha, provide tangible evidence for the historical existence of the figures mentioned in the scriptures.
Important Distinctions in Prophecy
  • Two Types of Messianic Prophecy: Jewish scriptures contain prophecies about a reigning Messiah who brings peace and a suffering Messiah who atones for sins.
  • Interpretations: While many Christians believe Jesus fulfilled the Messianic prophecies of the Hebrew Bible (e.g., Matthew 27:3-10), traditional Jewish interpretations argue that the Messianic age (world peace, universal knowledge of God) has not yet occurred.
 
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Archeologists use a pick in one hand and the Bible in the other. The Bible tells them where to look and in turn, what they find confirms the Bible narrative.
 
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Folks, If we want to understand the Bible we just need to read what it says, and NOT turn every sentence into a metaphor, an allegory, a symbol, an allusion, imagery, and all the rest of the literary devices. If Jesus used a symbol, He clarified it for the disciples.
If the Bible says an earthquake will happen when Christ touches down, it means an earthquake will happen when Christ touches down. Look for that, not some metaphor for what it might mean...
I have no doubt on the sincerity of all who read The Book of Revelation literally. It is a well known example of apocalyptic literature. The etymology and roots of the word 'apocalyptic' means 'Revelation', hence the title. However, the word used evolved to mean world-wide physical catastrophe, which is why many believe Revelation should be taken literally. We should bear in mind that the original usage of word in Biblical times was not physical catastrophes, but spiritual revelation. Dreams, visions, magnifying epics of the past--and imagery--were used to present and emphasize that spiritual revelation. That is why, in his Revelation, John used well-known stories and events.

My tendency is to go back to the language, etymology, and Biblical culture of that time to determine the original author's intent for his original audience during that time period. As you said, none of the physical catastrophic events happened during those Biblical times, which sends us back to original meanings and intents. For those of us who believe the books of the Bible are spirit breathed, it cannot be discounted that while the Book of Revelation (using a word that back then meant spiritual revelation), was imparting spiritual wisdom, this Spirit-breathed book could also be meant to alert future generations, not only of spiritual wisdom, but of future catastrophic physical disasters.
 
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Says you. I know a person who says gods talk to him.

The two of you go on the same shelf.
Careful there. No doubt we agree that DaVinci's Mona Lisa belongs in a museum. Would you state a current artist copy of the Mona Lisa should go into the museum as well--on the same wall as the original?

Personal revelation should be carefully studied by those who experience--and those who hear of it. Does it contradict what is in the Bible which is also known as public revelation. Many can have an experience of God that is intended for them personally.

Not every personal experience deserves to be dismissed as "magic" or a mental health issue. Just like the Mona Lisa, the real thing exists, despite the many copies.
 
Not every personal experience deserves to be dismissed as "magic" or a mental health issue. Just like the Mona Lisa, the real thing exists, despite the many copies.

that's all they have ever had, abraham's claim was just the one that gave them what they needed to begin their self serving religion.

without a public demonstration that has never occurred the same must be said for personal experiences as nothing more than mental gymnastics within the individual themselves and nothing more..
 
that's all they have ever had, abraham's claim was just the one that gave them what they needed to begin their self serving religion.

without a public demonstration that has never occurred the same must be said for personal experiences as nothing more than mental gymnastics within the individual themselves and nothing more..
Do you have the same complaint against Buddhism, Taoism or Confucianism? If not, why?
 
Not just the christian god, any god.

If they were real it would be self evident.

From a guy who spend decades as a preacher:

“Christians go in with their god as an assumption rather than a conclusion. When in fact, after close examination, the virgin birth falls apart, the resurrection falls apart, the basis of morality falls apart, the promise of afterlife fizzles into fear based marketing.”

“The gods of Islam, of Judaism, of Christianity only exist in scripture. If they actually existed, we wouldn’t need the books to claim they did. Once the book fails, the god goes with it.”




Feel free to explain why he is wrong or right.


Near death experiencer and former Atheist Rabbi Alon Anava was shown that the html coding for the material universe is formed out of globs of energy, [Zero Point Energy or Energy from Quantum Vacuum], in the form of the twenty two letters of the Hebrew alphabet.


www.AlonAnava.com/


So in a way the entire universe is a book....
and one of the names for YHWH is "The Word."



The material universe IS a book and YOU are a character in an interactive reality film series. The Life Review of near death experience accounts is evidence for this.


www.near-death.com/

and....


 
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