Zone1 If Blacks Do What Whites Have Done We Will Be Successful

[IM2]

Point is, if you went by test scores and grades, you'd have a lot more Asians and a lot less blacks. Period. If that wasn't the case, you wouldn't be fighting this so hard.

No Joe, I don't want to return to whites only.

You see, I took ACTUAL history, and not whatever CRT Garbage you learned. Now, I admit, that I come from a long line of Union guys, and that is actually a bias. My Grandfather was in the union, my dad was in the Union, my brothers were in unions. My grandmother was an organizer of union labor at textile factories.

But this whole thing of "White people got AA", we've been over this, buddy. For MOST white people, this meant having to work jobs that frankly no one here would last five minutes at and dying fairly young.

You didn't take actual history. You took Critical White Supremacy Theory. I said whites got AA. That means whites got the racial preferences you whine about blacks getting and they have been getting these preferences for 246 years. Some of your family were in unions that blacks were excluded from. But you took "real" history. LOL!

 

[AZrailwhale]

Joe, the case for reparations is against the government. You have bought into the race baiting because of your zero sum thinking. If we get reparations and you think you have the right to do damage, things won't end well for YOU. So you go vote for DeSantis, because what you think is not important. Because if you really did the research, you would see how stupid your argument really is.

How many times do you have to be told that the government has no money. Every dime it spends is taken from the taxpayers. Your reparations would come out of the taxpayer’s pockets, either directly by higher taxes, or like with the COVID subsidies by printing fiat money and driving down the value of existing money and creating inflation.

 

[AZrailwhale]

IMAVICTIM strikes again.



You do realize SCOTUS is going to strike down Affirmative Action, right? I want to brace you for it, because all your whining aside, everyone is sick and tired of this.



Point is, if you went by test scores and grades, you'd have a lot more Asians and a lot less blacks. Period. If that wasn't the case, you wouldn't be fighting this so hard.



You see, I took ACTUAL history, and not whatever CRT Garbage you learned. Now, I admit, that I come from a long line of Union guys, and that is actually a bias. My Grandfather was in the union, my dad was in the Union, my brothers were in unions. My grandmother was an organizer of union labor at textile factories.

But this whole thing of "White people got AA", we've been over this, buddy. For MOST white people, this meant having to work jobs that frankly no one here would last five minutes at and dying fairly young.



So what? Harvard maintains itself by a network of the powerful. Since most of us will never get into Harvard, just not seeing the point.



That's the problem. Company policies are written by people like you.

No, no one had to discuss how Ms. AA got hired. It was pretty obvious the third time she asked how to perform basic functions of her job. No HR Department that wasn't half asleep would have hired her unless it was trying to fill a quota.

My Manager actually DID want me for the role. He was overruled by people who were higher up. And this person quickly learned whining to HR was the fastest way to get out of work. By the time I left, everyone hated her... and not because we were racists, but because she wasn't pulling her weight.



Wow.. "Sociology". Yeah, that explains much. You know, I'm on another thread arguing with the knuckle-draggers why student loan forgiveness is a good thing, but talking with you and that other guy, I'm starting to kind of doubt it.

That actually does explain a lot about him. It was the original field for people wanting to suck off the public teat without ever producing results. About the only less honest major I can think of is Political Science. Since he is a few years younger than me he spent his college years being “taught” by anti-war professors and counter-culture loons who were just beginning to take over higher education at that time.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Joe,

If your manager wanted you for the job and was overruled, its probably because your company was still practicing discrimination and was trying to fix it. Now I'm sure you have worked with unqualified whites. And I bhave been denied jobs while whites who were less qualified got hired. A person with your limited mental ability does seem able to recognize that happens and I'm sure you'll have some illogical comeback to dismiss my experience.

Your rant is stupid. I'm going to show you this again and then you need to be quiet, because your argument is trash and again, it's based on something I can't say in this zone while you can call me a victim because you are not man enough to face the truth.

“Using publicly released reports, we examine the preferences Harvard gives for recruited athletes, legacies, those on the dean’s interest list, and children of faculty and staff (ALDCs). Among white admits, over 43% are ALDC. Among admits who are African American, Asian American, and Hispanic, the share is less than 16% each. Our model of admissions shows that roughly three quarters of white ALDC admits would have been rejected if they had been treated as white non-ALDCs.

Removing preferences for athletes and legacies would significantly alter the racial distribution of admitted students, with the share of white admits falling and all other groups rising or remaining unchanged.”

-National Bureau of Economic Research

All groups of color were reduced to let in whites who would not have qualified as regular admissions.

Understand?

Actually, taking out those groups would result in more Asians and Whites filling the vacancies unless admissions jiggered the requirements. The amusing thing is that without the legacies parents, grandparents and great grandparents, there would be no Ivy League Universities. They are private schools founded and run by donations from the ancestors of those legacies. In this day and age most of those athletes are black, so cutting athletic scholarships would actually reduce the numbers of black students at Harvard.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Joe,

If your manager wanted you for the job and was overruled, its probably because your company was still practicing discrimination and was trying to fix it. Now I'm sure you have worked with unqualified whites. And I bhave been denied jobs while whites who were less qualified got hired. A person with your limited mental ability does seem able to recognize that happens and I'm sure you'll have some illogical comeback to dismiss my experience.

Your rant is stupid. I'm going to show you this again and then you need to be quiet, because your argument is trash and again, it's based on something I can't say in this zone while you can call me a victim because you are not man enough to face the truth.

“Using publicly released reports, we examine the preferences Harvard gives for recruited athletes, legacies, those on the dean’s interest list, and children of faculty and staff (ALDCs). Among white admits, over 43% are ALDC. Among admits who are African American, Asian American, and Hispanic, the share is less than 16% each. Our model of admissions shows that roughly three quarters of white ALDC admits would have been rejected if they had been treated as white non-ALDCs.

Removing preferences for athletes and legacies would significantly alter the racial distribution of admitted students, with the share of white admits falling and all other groups rising or remaining unchanged.”

-National Bureau of Economic Research

All groups of color were reduced to let in whites who would not have qualified as regular admissions.

Understand?

Without the white legacy students, there would be no slots for minorities since the schools wouldn’t exist.

 

[Friends]

That's fiction.

What is not true about this:

Or this:

Or this:

=========================
2006 College & University
Guidance, Scholarships, Money and Info Gateways
(For Students, Parents, College Advisors, Mentors,
and Cultural Groups)
==========================

​

SAT and ACT Scores by Race/Ethnicity: 2003

In recent years the noted pattern of test scores has reflected similar numbers--
Editor, 2005

SAT Ethnic Group Scores (Math/Verbal+total)

• American Indian---482/480 (962)
• Asian American-----575/508 (1083)
• African American-----426/431 (857)
• Puerto Rican----457/448 (905)

Other Hispanic----464/457 (921)

• White-----534/529 (1063)
• Other ----513/501 (1014)

Source: www.collegeboard.com

Average ACT Composite Score by Race/Ethnicity, 2003
----------------------------------------------------

• African American ----16.9
• American Indian---18.7
• Caucasian---- 21.7
• Mexican American----18.3
• Asian American---- 21.8
• Hispanic----19.0
• Other ----19.3
• Multiracial-----20.9
• Prefer Not to Respond -----21.8
• No Response-----20.1

Source: www.act.org

Quote from attached SAT/ACT article:

"Readiness for college science and math coursework was particularly low among
African American students. Only 5 percent of African American test-takers scored
at or above the college-readiness benchmark for college biology, and just 10
percent attained the readiness benchmark for college algebra. Ferguson said
Black students were less likely than others to take tough, college-prep courses
and "often don't receive the information and guidance they need to properly plan
for college."

For overview and more info, go to:
http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m0DXK/15_20/109265562/p1/article.jhtml

SAT and ACT Scores by Race/Ethnicity

SAT and ACT Scores broken down by Race/Ethnicity.

www.blackexcel.org

 

[IM2]

What we have here is severe cognitive dissonance from most of the respondents.

“Cognitive dissonance, first described by the psychologist Leon Festinger in the late 1950s, occurs when conflict emerges between what people want to believe and the reality that threatens those beliefs. The human mind does not like such inconsistencies: They set off alarms that spur the mind to alter some beliefs to make the perceived reality fit with one’s preferred views.”

Whites have not got what they have the way you guys claim. There really is no disputing it. It is documented in the legislative/court records at every level of government.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

So we are told that if blacks do certain things that we will suceed.

1) Waiting until marriage to have children, and then only when at least one of the marriage partners is gainfully employed in a job that allows them to afford them, and

2) A very strong emphasis that education is the key to success - including higher education in a marketable field - that is instilled beginning in elementary school.

Of course, there are other traits that contribute to one’s degree of success - motivation, ability, intelligence, discipline, etc. - but the two above, if followed, practically guarantees that one will become at least lower-middle class, and likely higher.

Are these things relly how whites became sucessful?

Whether it was colonial government or the current republic we have now, the government has provided whites with more than it has ever given to anyone else. This was not because people of color did not take the opportunity because most of these things EXCLUDED non white participation. The handouts/privilege started with this:

In 1618, the Virginia colony passed "the Great Charter of privileges, orders, and laws." Among these laws was a provision that any person who settled in Virginia or paid for the transportation of another person to settle in Virginia would get fifty acres of land per person. “The right to receive fifty acres per person, or per head, was called a headright.” It got even better for colonists as those who “imported” slaves also got fifty acres per slave. The practice was continued by the government of Virginia, for 161 years, ending in 1779. Headrights were not only limited to Virginia. The headright system was used in all the original thirteen colonies. Headrights were the first of many government handouts of free stuff or guarantees providing whites with economic development assistance.

It continued with this:

The Three-Fifths Compromise is found in Article 1, Section 2, Clause 3 of the United States Constitution. It says: “Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three-fifths of all other Persons.”

And with this:

The Naturalization Act of 1790 states: “any alien, being a free white person,” could apply for citizenship, so long as they lived in the United States for at least two years and in the state where the application was filed for at least one year. This law allowed “children of citizens of the United States that may be born … out of the limits of the United States shall be considered as natural-born citizens.” Please notice the first seven words. Only whites were entitled to be citizens of this country.

And with this:

One of the greatest miscarriages of justice in this nation’s history was a direct rebuttal to the claim that all men are created equal called Dred Scott v. Sandford. I am not going into all the particulars of this case. The court’s opinion says all you need to know. “A black man has no rights a white man is bound to respect.” The result of Dred Scott v. Sandford was that whites were given rights and status blacks were denied.Or- Affirmative Action.

And with this:

Anti-literacy Laws in the United States Once Prevented Blacks from Getting an Education

(NO OTHER RACE WAS DENIED THE RIGHT TO READ)

Passed in 1862, the Homestead Acts gave away 246 million acres of land. To qualify for Homestead land, a person had to be a citizen of the United States, and blacks were not given citizenship until 1866.

And this:

"After the Civil War ended in 1865, some states passed black codes that severely limited the rights of Black people, many of whom had been enslaved. These codes limited what jobs African Americans could hold, and their ability to leave a job once hired. Some states also restricted the kind of property Black people could own. The Reconstruction Act of 1867 weakened the effect of the Black codes by requiring all states to uphold equal protection under the 14th Amendment, particularly by enabling Black men to vote. (U.S. law prevented women of any race from voting in federal elections until 1920.)

During Reconstruction, many Black men participated in politics by voting and by holding office. Reconstruction officially ended in 1877, and southern states then enacted more discriminatory laws. Efforts to enforce white supremacy by legislation increased, and African Americans tried to assert their rights through legal challenges. However, this effort led to a disappointing result in 1896, when the Supreme Court ruled, in Plessy v. Ferguson, that so-called “separate but equal” facilities—including public transport and schools—were constitutional. From this time until the Civil Rights Act of 1964, discrimination and segregation were legal and enforceable."

July 9, 2018 was the 150th anniversary of the 14th Amendment, which purported to grant African Americans the rights and responsibilities of full citizenship, among other things. American history shows that people who are equal on paper can be unequal in practice—especially with regards to the right to bear arms.

On April 16, 1895, the United States Supreme Court rendered another one of the sorriest decisions in American history. It is known as Plessy vs. Ferguson. From this decision came the principle of separate but equal.

And this:

The National Housing Act was passed by Congress and signed by President Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1934.29 This law created the Federal Housing Administration or the FHA. The National Housing Act is the policy that may have had the most impact on wealth accumulation in modern America.

Between 1934 and 1968, the FHA implemented and put into practice a policy that still negatively impacts communities today.30 The FHA Underwriting Manual set the guidelines real estate agents used to assess home values in American neighborhoods. This manual promoted racist real estate practices. It was done by defending racially restrictive covenants and segregated communities. Due to this manual, the FHA established a neighborhood grading system based purely on false racist perceptions.

Redlining was the name of that grading system. My point here is the FHA was a government agency whose policies specifically provided whites with opportunities to increase wealth through homeownership. The formation of the FHA and its guaranteed loan program only worked to increase white advantage. “Of the $120 billion worth of new housing subsidized by the government between 1934 and 1962, less than 2 percent went to nonwhite families.”

"The racial-exclusion clauses in deeds were not only recommended by the federal government, but in some cases required as a condition of Federal Housing Administration and Veterans Administration subsidies for the creation of all-white suburbs, like Levittown in New York state. And federal and state courts, in violation of their constitutional obligations, enforced those deed clauses by ordering the eviction of African Americans who bought homes where the deeds barred them from doing so."

And this:

The Social Security Act of 1935 created the Social Security program, state unemployment insurance, and assistance to single women with children.Today, most Americans love the program. However, when the act was signed, the law excluded occupations mainly done by blacks. When President Roosevelt signed the law, approximately two-thirds of the blacks in America were ineligible. For years, most blacks were excluded from social security savings and could not get unemployment.

And this:

Title 4 or IV of the social security act of 1935 provided grants to states as Aid To Dependent Children. Eventually the name of the program was changed to Aid to Families with Dependent Children. This was welfare, folks. Assistance for single moms with children and no daddy at home. In 1935. Blacks were excluded.

And this:

The Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 created the minimum wage and time and a half overtime pay for working over forty hours a week. Child labor was eliminated by this act. All these were good things, but… In every law that was passed as part of The New Deal, Roosevelt had to compromise with southern representatives to get the votes he needed. In the case of the FLSA, due to pressure from southern congress members, he decided that industries would be excluded from the regulations where the majority of workers were black. Because of this, blacks were paid less than the minimum wage.

And this:

On June 22, 1944, President Roosevelt signed the Servicemen’s Readjustment Act, better known as the G.I. Bill.38 This law provided benefits for veterans returning from World War Two. This act included funds for college tuition, low-cost home loans, and unemployment insurance. As in every other program during this time, southern members of Congress fought the passage of these laws unless there were provisions that limited access to blacks.

Over one million returning black soldiers were unable to get GI benefits. My father was one of those soldiers.


Headrights, Headrights (VA-NOTES)

What was the Headright System? Headright System History & Significance | What was the Headright System? - Video & Lesson Transcript | Study.com

Williams, T. (2000). The Homestead Act: A major asset-building policy in American history (CSD Working Paper No. 00-9). St. Louis, MO: Washington University, Center for Social Development. Pg.11 The Homestead Act: A Major Asset-Building Policy in American History
Freedmen's Bureau Act, Freedmen's Bureau Act, March 3, 1865 | The Freedmen's Bureau Online

Anti-literacy Laws in the United States Once Prevented Blacks from Getting an Education - TalkAfricana

talkafricana.com

The Black Codes and Jim Crow Laws

After the United States Civil War, state governments that had been part of the Confederacy tried to limit the voting rights of Black citizens and prevent contact between Black and white citizens in public places.

education.nationalgeographic.org

The Unequal History of African American Gun Rights

When it comes to firearms, some Americans are more equal than others.

www.topic.com

James Chen, National Housing Act, Updated Sep 3, 2019, What Is the National Housing Act?

Alexis C. Madrigal, The Racist Housing Policy That Made Your Neighborhood, The Atlantic, May 22, 2014, The Racist Housing Policy That Made Your Neighborhood

How to spot discrimination in mortgage lending, and what you can do about it

Explore mortgage lending discrimination, its types, how it affects borrowers, and what you can do if you suspect discrimination. Learn about your rights.

www.businessinsider.com

PBS, Race-The Power of An Illusion, Uncle Sam Lends A Hand, Did the Government Racialize Housing and Wealth? RACE - The Power of an Illusion . Go Deeper | PBS

The Social Security Act of 1935, Social Security History

Larry DeWitt, The Decision to Exclude Agricultural and Domestic Workers from the 1935 Social Security Act, Social Security Bulletin, Vol. 70, No. 4, 2010

Brad Plumer, A second look at Social Security’s racist origins, Washington Post, June 3, 2013, https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...cond-look-at-social-securitys-racist-origins/

Linda Gordon and Felice Batlan, The Legal History of the Aid to Dependent Children Program, Aid To Dependent Children: The Legal History

Johnathan Grossman, Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938: Maximum Struggle for a Minimum Wage, U.S. Department of Labor, Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938: Maximum Struggle for a Minimum Wage | U.S. Department of Labor

Servicemen’s Readjustment Act (G.I. Bill), Servicemen's Readjustment Act (1944) Facts - G.I. Bill for Veterans

Erin Blakemore, How the GI Bill's Promise Was Denied to a Million Black WWII Veterans, How the GI Bill's Promise Was Denied to a Million Black WWII Veterans, June 21, 2019

Brandon Weber, How African American WWII Veterans Were Scorned By the G.I. Bill, The Progressive, November 10, 2017, How African American WWII Veterans Were Scorned By the G.I. Bill
Sally Kohn, Affirmative Action Has Helped White Women More Than Anyone, Time, JUNE 17, 2013, Affirmative Action Has Helped White Women More Than Anyone.

Fact Sheet: Affirmative Action and What It Means for Women, July 1, 2000, The National Womens Law Center, https://nwlc.org/resources/affirmative-action-and-what-it-means-women/

Tim Wise, Is Sisterhood Conditional?: White Women and the Rollback of Affirmative Action, September 23, 1998, Is Sisterhood Conditional?: White Women and the Rollback of Affirmative Action

Victoria M. Massie, White women benefit most from affirmative action — and are among its fiercest opponents, White women benefit most from affirmative action — and are among its fiercest opponents

Do you really want blacks to emulate the actions of "more successful" groups?

tl;dr

Condemning the entire "race" of white people based on the actions of a very very very very small few.

Do you know what we call that?

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

This thread was made in response to people who want to tell blacks how we should do things like others. Seems comments like this get made with amnesia whereby people have forgotten how others did things.

I do not wish to tell black peopke how to live their lives. Just quit trying to get me to pay for it.

 

[JoeB131]

I probably would, but then I'd be reminded of the fact that a lot of other people get jobs they're not necessarily qualified for. It happens.

Yes, it does... but this funny thing happens when WHITE people get hired for jobs they aren't qualified for. They get fired. They either get fired for incompetence, or they get downsized when something like Covid happens.

Unless you are an Affirmative Action Sacred Cow, in which case you get kept and more qualified people are let go.

The funniest part. The week after they ended my contract, this woman had the fucking gall to call me at home and ask me how to prepare a report I had been doing.

Now, I know I was in a tenuous position being on a "Temp to Hire" contract to start with. But man, it still steams me.

Whatever, tell me, how is this whole "Cowboy up" thing working for you? Because from where I sit, the whole white guy "I'm a tough guy" thing is leading to opioid addiction, drug overdoses, and suicides. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you even wrote something to the effect that you're past the point of caring whether you end up in prison or not. I mean, that might not be suicidal ideation per se, but that's a pretty suicidal, permanently life-altering outlook.

I'm kind of philosophical.. I'm 60 years old. My father died at 56 (after a lifetime of sucking in asbestos, because of all that White Privilege IMAVICTIM2 keeps talking about) and my mom died at 52. So I kind of didn't expect to live this long. My goal in life right now is to keep it together long enough to hit 65.

Explain to me how that's healthy and how you think you're benefiting as an individual. How would beating the snot out of someone or worse and ending up with a lengthy prison sentence help you? I assume you have assets, savings, some accumulated wealth. You have creature comforts, I assume. And you'd give that up all because you think you got jobbed by a progressive woke policy that was intended to correct 400 years or racism? That's just breathtakingly, mind-bogglingly...wow.

Well, no, I wouldn't for a lot of reasons, but if it came to some social justice warrior trying to loot my property, trying to get some restorative justice, he's gonna need restorative surgery. The sad thing about the Burn-Loot-Murder riots is they almost gave us a second term of Trump.

Now, would I have punched someone out over Ms. Affirmative Action? Well, no, not really. It just wasn't that big of a deal. But present a real threat to me, or anyone or anything I care about...

Nah, if you knowingly, willingly voted for a fascist and against the economic interests of pretty much everyone who isn't in the top 10% of wealth, then that is a conscious decision and a conscious action on your part. I take responsibility for my actions, and I think you should as well. If you vote someone like DeSantis into power because you were so triggered over wokeness, "you did that."

You see, here's the thing. No matter who gets in, I'll probably be fine. DeSantis can turn this country into the live action version of A Handmaid's Tale, and frankly, wouldn't have any effect on my life. Frankly, in my adult life, yeah, Trump and the Bushes fouled things up economically, but so did Jimmy Carter and Obama. Jury is still out on Biden. Wouldn't be the first vote I've regretted, doubt it will be the last. But if I'm having to worry about crime, I'm not going to be too worried about who is going to screw up the economy, because I don't think they have that much control to start with.

Now, I have argued on many of these threads, that to fix the crime problem, we need to fix all the other problems- Gun proliferation, poverty, mental illness, drug addiction, and yes, even racism. But this funny thing happens when Democrats get in charge. They don't actually do anything about those things, and they keep letting the criminals loose. And now the cops don't want to do their jobs anymore. Who can blame them?

I haven't touched a gun since I left the Army in 1992. I'm seriously considering buying one now.

 

[JoeB131]

Joe,

If your manager wanted you for the job and was overruled, its probably because your company was still practicing discrimination and was trying to fix it. Now I'm sure you have worked with unqualified whites. And I bhave been denied jobs while whites who were less qualified got hired. A person with your limited mental ability does seem able to recognize that happens and I'm sure you'll have some illogical comeback to dismiss my experience.

Dude, people like you with the DIE philosophy aren't the solution, you're the PROBLEM. You saddle companies with people they never would have hired and make it impossible to fire them once they get into place.

So let's say that this company did something really awful like hire qualified white people in the past. OH NOES. And someone sued, and now the DIE PC Police are in HR and thinking, "Yeah, this girl who changed jobs every other year, she's totally a good fit." Let's assume that she even talked a good game in the interview.

But it was kind of obvious to the whole department she was useless about three months in. But guess what, now they can't fire her because some race pimp will bring a lawsuit.

This is why Affirmative Action needs to DIE!

Your rant is stupid. I'm going to show you this again and then you need to be quiet, because your argument is trash and again, it's based on something I can't say in this zone while you can call me a victim because you are not man enough to face the truth.

Yawn, this was boring the first twenty times you posted it. You throw four categories of admissions in there with no other documentation or data.

All groups of color were reduced to let in whites who would not have qualified as regular admissions.

Understand?

No, they weren't. OTHER WHITES were reduced to make room for the athletes (who often tend to be black), or the legacies or special cases... But until you come back to me with real numbers instead of "How to Lie With Statistics", I'm going to take it with a big old grain of salt.

So let's do this. Get rid of it all. Get rid of AA, get rid of legacies, get rid of athletics, make the family of staff apply just like everyone else.

Two things. GPA and SAT scores. Top 2000 scorers get in.

My guess is, you wouldn't want to play that.

 

[JoeB131]

You didn't take actual history. You took Critical White Supremacy Theory. I said whites got AA. That means whites got the racial preferences you whine about blacks getting and they have been getting these preferences for 246 years. Some of your family were in unions that blacks were excluded from. But you took "real" history. LOL!

Um, yeah, all the important stuff done in history- Um, mostly white people. And not entirely a good thing, Hitler and Napoleon were white people. So were Geo. Washington and Abe Lincoln.

Not to worry, we have a month where we get to hear all about the guy who invented peanut brittle... or something.

No Joe, I don't want to return to whites only.

I'm sure you don't... you strike me as being a Post Turtle.

Oh, I've moved to openly mocking you now.

 

[JoeB131]

Just so I don't think I'm completely being harsh, I checked some polling to see where the public is on this issue.

Poll finds the public doesn't favor affirmative action | Inside Higher Ed

Pew poll of American adults finds 74 percent think race and ethnicity should not be considered in admissions decisions. For gender, 82 percent think it shouldn’t be considered.

www.insidehighered.com

Pew poll of American adults finds 74 percent think race and ethnicity should not be considered in admissions decisions. For gender, 82 percent think it shouldn’t be considered.

Affirmative Action and Public Opinion

Americans support the concept of affirmative action and its objectives, but attitudes are nuanced when it comes to specifics.

news.gallup.com

The results show that 72% of U.S. adults oppose giving preference to Black Americans in hiring and promotion, including 43% who say they oppose strongly.

 

[IM2]

I do not wish to tell black peopke how to live their lives. Just quit trying to get me to pay for it.

Blacks paid for your life, your parents , grandparents, great grandparents and great great grandparents, etc.

The government is responsible for human rights violations against blacks. That's who will pay. Why you guys keep arguing like you will be personally paying shows the extent of the right wing race hustling.

 

[multivita-man]

Yes, it does... but this funny thing happens when WHITE people get hired for jobs they aren't qualified for. They get fired. They either get fired for incompetence, or they get downsized when something like Covid happens.

Oh I know plenty of whites who didn't get fired who damn well should have been. The company might have collapsed years later, but that's another issue.

We're getting into the weeds on the specific issue of affirmative action. I have opinions on the topic that probably both you and IM would disagree with (though I don't know - maybe not). I basically support AA in principle, though how it's applied in specific contexts, etc is something that might be worth revisiting, IMHO.

I'm kind of philosophical.. I'm 60 years old. My father died at 56 (after a lifetime of sucking in asbestos, because of all that White Privilege IMAVICTIM2 keeps talking about) and my mom died at 52. So I kind of didn't expect to live this long. My goal in life right now is to keep it together long enough to hit 65.

Internet shit-talking and all aside, I respect a man who's had some experiences, regardless of what color they are.

I guess what I was trying to articulate with all my references to history is that there's the individual and then there's the group. Like most people, I see one comment or two, and I respond to it. I have an opinion, you have an opinion, IM, Patriotguy or whatever his name is - we all have opinions. And we bring our individual life experiences into it. I fully realize and acknowledge that some of the comments I make are focused more on the groups, the demographics as a whole and don't always apply to specific individual life experiences.

Do I think there are white individuals who were born into an underclass and who have zero (or next to zero) advantages or privilege or whatever we want to call it? Of course.

Do I think there are Blacks who screw themselves because of shitty decision making? Of course.

Are we ultimately responsible for ourselves regardless of what happened to our parents and grandparents? Sure.

I'm not absolving people of individual responsibility.

But then there's the group aspect to this discussion. I go back to something I've already said, which is that if you want to compare groups A and B and you wonder, why is there more this behavior among group A than group B, then you have to have an honest appraisal of history. I think most Americans understand some of that history but not all of it, and because we don't, we don't fully appreciate the extent to which we're still living with the consequences of that history. I don't expect to persuade anyone, but if nothing else, I can at least present facts and challenge ignorance.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Blacks paid for your life, your parents , grandparents, great grandparents and great great grandparents, etc.

The government is responsible for human rights violations against blacks. That's who will pay. Why you guys keep arguing like you will be personally paying shows the extent of the right wing race hustling.

Why can’t you understand the fact that the government HAS NO MONEY of its own. Every penny it has comes from us the taxpayers. So yes, your imaginary reparations will come out of my and every other taxpayers pockets. Hell, you will be paying your own reparations If you are the success you claim to be.

 

[IM2]

We're getting into the weeds on the specific issue of affirmative action. I have opinions on the topic that probably both you and IM would disagree with (though I don't know - maybe not). I basically support AA in principle, though how it's applied in specific contexts, etc is something that might be worth revisiting, IMHO.

I think those who oppose the policy need to go back and take a real honest look at how things really happened.

Some people here don't really don't understand what personal responsibility entails. People of color face racism in this country all people of color. Whites like Joe and a few others have adopted Asians as racial mascots and try using them as examples. If you look at the Asian population, the highest earners are Indians. They are the ones making over 100,000 per year. And many of them came here because of a special government preference called the H1B Visa that assures them high paying jobs once they get here.

Take away the Indian income and the so called successful Asians income is much closer to black and hispanic, with some ethnicities in the Asian diaspora living at 30 percent poverty or higher with a high rate of high school dropouts.

Whites who are racists love Asians because their culture practices what is called gaman. Gaman is basically, shut up and take the abuse. The racist white subculture in America cherishes those who take the bullying and don't fight back. However, that's about to change because younger Asians are rejection gaman and there is a generational discussion going on in the Asian community on how to properly address the white racism they face.

Taking responsibility is more than blaming yourself for your problems so some white people on the internet can feel superior. Taking responsibility means looking at the problems, finding the root cause of that problem, then address it. I have stated that the root cause of the problems blacks face is white racism and I have all kinds of evidence that supports this assertion. Hollering about somebody being a victim is not a rebuttal to that evidence nor are opinions about blacks taking responsibility for our decisions from people who never have done the same.

We don't have 20 times less wealth than whites because we made poor decisions. We don't have 2.7 percent of the wealth in this country while being 13 percent of the population because a man is not sitting on a recliner in a house with his woman and kids every night. Payscale and other human resource firms along with the National Women's Law Center have done work that shows that black men and black women earn less than white and that includes when everything else is the same.

A black couple makes something like 85 cents for every dollar a white couple makes and that pay disparity is not due to bad choices blacks have made and it certainly isn't because every black person is less qualified than whites.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

A black couple makes something like 85 cents for every dollar a white couple makes and that pay disparity is not due to bad choices blacks have made and it certainly isn't because every black person is less qualified than whites.

Why didn't the black couple get a better education and choose a higher paying field?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

We don't have 2.7 percent of the wealth in this country while being 13 percent of the population because a man is not sitting on a recliner in a house with his woman and kids every night.

Careful......you're getting awfully close to per capita.

 

[JoeB131]

Blacks paid for your life, your parents , grandparents, great grandparents and great great grandparents, etc.

The government is responsible for human rights violations against blacks. That's who will pay. Why you guys keep arguing like you will be personally paying shows the extent of the right wing race hustling.

Uh, guy, the government doesn't pay... we all do. Where do you think government gets it's money? From us. I mean, do you not understand how this works?

I also dispute that black labor paid for our lives. In fact, there's a good argument to be made that slavery retarded economic progress, which is why the south was so far behind the north economically and ultimately lost the Civil War. While the few rich plantation owners benefited, the poor white farmer who wore the Gray didn't. He was just terrified that liberated blacks would pull a Haiti on them.

Meanwhile, those Irish and German immigrants in the north who worked under hellish conditions of the early industrial revolution wore the blue to end slavery. Not entirely voluntarily, to be sure, but they did. (The war became bigger and bloodier as BOTH sides relied on conscripts to fight it.) The ironic thing was the South was so deluded that they thought they could win, because they had no idea of the industrial power of the North.