If al-Qid Preferes to Starve, Let Him.

[Boston1]

Court says Palestinian hunger striker to stay in Israeli hospital

A classic example of someone with zero authority trying to dictate terms.

Its a microcosm of the entire conflict.

"I'l throw my life away needlessly if I don't get my way"

Its like watching a four year old throw a tantrum.

The situation is obvious, Israel has every right to detain suspected combatants for as long as they want under the Geneva Conventions.

yet the pali's will stage it as if Israel is the bad guy.

go

 

[Jackson]

I really don't know what the problem is. If he refuses to eat, he refuses to eat. So let it be. You can't shove food down his throat. If he wants to be a martyr, just show the world it comes with a cost.

 

[Boston1]

Actually they can shove food down his throat. Insert feeding tube, and pour.

Its an option. If the Israeli's decide to make the slob live, they have every right to "ensure he receives the proper diet and nutrients. Even if they have to administer them rectally

See

Quote

Article 7

Copyright U of Minn Human Rights Library

Prisoners of war may in no circumstances renounce in part or in entirety the rights secured to them by the present Convention, and by the special agreements referred to in the foregoing Article, if such there be.

Article 26

Copyright U of Minn Human Rights Library

The basic daily food rations shall be sufficient in quantity, quality and variety to keep prisoners of war in good health and to prevent loss of weight or the development of nutritional deficiencies. Account shall also be taken of the habitual diet of the prisoners.

The Detaining Power shall supply prisoners of war who work with such additional rations as are necessary for the labour on which they are employed.

Sufficient drinking water shall be supplied to prisoners of war. The use of tobacco shall be permitted.

Prisoners of war shall, as far as possible, be associated with the preparation of their meals; they may be employed for that purpose in the kitchens. Furthermore, they shall be given the means of preparing, themselves, the additional food in their possession.

Adequate premises shall be provided for messing.

Collective disciplinary measures affecting food are prohibited.

End Quote

I believe under the circumstances Israel would be within its rights to puree his dinner and send it up any orifice they so chose

 

[Coyote]

Court says Palestinian hunger striker to stay in Israeli hospital

A classic example of someone with zero authority trying to dictate terms.

Its a microcosm of the entire conflict.

"I'l throw my life away needlessly if I don't get my way"

Its like watching a four year old throw a tantrum.

The situation is obvious, Israel has every right to detain suspected combatants for as long as they want under the Geneva Conventions.

yet the pali's will stage it as if Israel is the bad guy.

go

What crime did he commit? Sounds like he's a journalist.

 

[Boston1]

Court says Palestinian hunger striker to stay in Israeli hospital

A classic example of someone with zero authority trying to dictate terms.

Its a microcosm of the entire conflict.

"I'l throw my life away needlessly if I don't get my way"

Its like watching a four year old throw a tantrum.

The situation is obvious, Israel has every right to detain suspected combatants for as long as they want under the Geneva Conventions.

yet the pali's will stage it as if Israel is the bad guy.

go

What crime did he commit? Sounds like he's a journalist.

He is suspected of working with terrorists

Under the Geneva Conventions suspicion is sufficient cause for detention indefinitely

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Court says Palestinian hunger striker to stay in Israeli hospital

A classic example of someone with zero authority trying to dictate terms.

Its a microcosm of the entire conflict.

"I'l throw my life away needlessly if I don't get my way"

Its like watching a four year old throw a tantrum.

The situation is obvious, Israel has every right to detain suspected combatants for as long as they want under the Geneva Conventions.

yet the pali's will stage it as if Israel is the bad guy.

go

What crime did he commit? Sounds like he's a journalist.

I cant see what crime he committed. He has not been charged or tried either. Its an absolute disgrace.

Video: Palestinian hunger striker's wife makes urgent plea

 

[Tommy Tainant]

B'Tselem Executive Director in Letter to Prime Minister: Order the Immediate Release of Hunger Striker Muhammad al-Qiq
It would seem that fair minded Israelis are uncomfortable with this abuse of power.

 

[Boston1]

B'Tselem Executive Director in Letter to Prime Minister: Order the Immediate Release of Hunger Striker Muhammad al-Qiq
It would seem that fair minded Israelis are uncomfortable with this abuse of power.

Fair minded Israeli's ?

No B'Tselem gets most of its funding from abroad. Its not Israeli's funding their kinda nonsense.

The fact is he's being detained as a suspected collaborator which is perfectly legal under both Israeli law and international law.

If he wants to throw a tantrum and refuse to eat thats his business but Israel is under no obligation to release him. They would however be fully within their rights, if they so chose, to shove a feeding down his throat and pour.

 

[Coyote]

Court says Palestinian hunger striker to stay in Israeli hospital

A classic example of someone with zero authority trying to dictate terms.

Its a microcosm of the entire conflict.

"I'l throw my life away needlessly if I don't get my way"

Its like watching a four year old throw a tantrum.

The situation is obvious, Israel has every right to detain suspected combatants for as long as they want under the Geneva Conventions.

yet the pali's will stage it as if Israel is the bad guy.

go

What crime did he commit? Sounds like he's a journalist.

He is suspected of working with terrorists

Under the Geneva Conventions suspicion is sufficient cause for detention indefinitely

I don't consider this to be like watching a four year old throw a trantrum. Geneva conventions or not - he has a right to know what his crime is, and to be tried for it. Indefinate detention is just plain wrong as is comparing behavior to a child's tantrum. It's not really funny. Was Alice Paul a child throwing a tantrum? How about Cesar Chavez? Thomas Ashe? Guillermo Farinas? Mahatma Ghandi?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

B'Tselem Executive Director in Letter to Prime Minister: Order the Immediate Release of Hunger Striker Muhammad al-Qiq
It would seem that fair minded Israelis are uncomfortable with this abuse of power.

Fair minded Israeli's ?

No B'Tselem gets most of its funding from abroad. Its not Israeli's funding their kinda nonsense.

The fact is he's being detained as a suspected collaborator which is perfectly legal under both Israeli law and international law.

If he wants to throw a tantrum and refuse to eat thats his business but Israel is under no obligation to release him. They would however be fully within their rights, if they so chose, to shove a feeding down his throat and pour.

Well Israel itself is funded from abroad.
I also think the legal grounds are shaky to say the least.
What if the US decided to detain a few patriot groups on a similar basis ? I think there may be comment on that.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I don't consider this to be like watching a four year old throw a trantrum. Geneva conventions or not - he has a right to know what his crime is, and to be tried for it. Indefinate detention is just plain wrong as is comparing behavior to a child's tantrum. It's not really funny. Was Alice Paul a child throwing a tantrum? How about Cesar Chavez? Thomas Ashe? Guillermo Farinas? Mahatma Ghandi?

Considering you are on record here as having no problem with the Palestinian custom of honoring mass murderers of Jews and then stated that mass murderers so often do great things, are you hoping, here, that he is released so he can do some of those great thins you support?

What's next -- your mentioning Charles Manson in the same breath as Mother Teresa?

 

[Boston1]

Court says Palestinian hunger striker to stay in Israeli hospital

A classic example of someone with zero authority trying to dictate terms.

Its a microcosm of the entire conflict.

"I'l throw my life away needlessly if I don't get my way"

Its like watching a four year old throw a tantrum.

The situation is obvious, Israel has every right to detain suspected combatants for as long as they want under the Geneva Conventions.

yet the pali's will stage it as if Israel is the bad guy.

go

What crime did he commit? Sounds like he's a journalist.

He is suspected of working with terrorists

Under the Geneva Conventions suspicion is sufficient cause for detention indefinitely

I don't consider this to be like watching a four year old throw a trantrum. Geneva conventions or not - he has a right to know what his crime is, and to be tried for it. Indefinate detention is just plain wrong as is comparing behavior to a child's tantrum. It's not really funny. Was Alice Paul a child throwing a tantrum? How about Cesar Chavez? Thomas Ashe? Guillermo Farinas? Mahatma Ghandi?

Under the Geneva Conventions he has no right to know what his crime is and he may be detained until the end of hostilities. Period.

Under Israeli law he may be detained for up to six months without charge at which point he may or may not be detained for another six months.

I'll have to go look that one up but either way his detention is perfectly legal under both Israeli or international law

PS your list of hero's includes some real winners. Chaves was well known for throwing tantrums just as Ghandi was

See
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...-7xMQlVbu1iCd4p4HhURkQ&bvm=bv.114733917,d.cGc

Quote

Miss Pawel, a Pulitzer Prize-winning author and editor, is the ideal biographer. She has researched her subject exhaustively. She writes well. She presents her findings objectively and does not pass judgment–so I will: Anyone who reads this book can only conclude that Cesar Chavez was a deceitful, foul-mouthed, philandering, sociopathic egomaniac who pretended to be a saint. And, yes, he had an unusual capacity to attract and inspire people, and worked very hard to start a farm workers union. Only a unique combination of circumstances could have made a hero out of this gifted but odious man:

End Quote

 

[Boston1]

B'Tselem Executive Director in Letter to Prime Minister: Order the Immediate Release of Hunger Striker Muhammad al-Qiq
It would seem that fair minded Israelis are uncomfortable with this abuse of power.

Fair minded Israeli's ?

No B'Tselem gets most of its funding from abroad. Its not Israeli's funding their kinda nonsense.

The fact is he's being detained as a suspected collaborator which is perfectly legal under both Israeli law and international law.

If he wants to throw a tantrum and refuse to eat thats his business but Israel is under no obligation to release him. They would however be fully within their rights, if they so chose, to shove a feeding down his throat and pour.

Well Israel itself is funded from abroad.
I also think the legal grounds are shaky to say the least.
What if the US decided to detain a few patriot groups on a similar basis ? I think there may be comment on that.

The legal grounds are well founded. Here in the US one may be detained indefinitely as well. From an international perspective again the Geneva Conventions apply and allow for any non-protected person to be detained indefinitely and without charge.

I'm sure you are aware that anyone within the area of the conflict who engages as a combatants, assists a combatant or is suspected of being or assisting a combatant forfeits their protected person status and may be detained without communication indefinitely or until the end of hostilities.

Israeli law is more than clear as well. Administrative detention is perfectly legal

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Miss Pawel, a Pulitzer Prize-winning author and editor, is the ideal biographer. She has researched her subject exhaustively. She writes well. She presents her findings objectively and does not pass judgment–so I will: Anyone who reads this book can only conclude that Cesar Chavez was a deceitful, foul-mouthed, philandering, sociopathic egomaniac who pretended to be a saint. And, yes, he had an unusual capacity to attract and inspire people, and worked very hard to start a farm workers union. Only a unique combination of circumstances could have made a hero out of this gifted but odious man:

As far as her heroes are concerned, she is just grasping at any straw she can to lionize a man who desires dead Jews by comparing him to any real or imagined hero she can conjure.

It is an obvious ruse designed to support the agenda in question by making it look virtuous.

 

[Coyote]

Court says Palestinian hunger striker to stay in Israeli hospital

A classic example of someone with zero authority trying to dictate terms.

Its a microcosm of the entire conflict.

"I'l throw my life away needlessly if I don't get my way"

Its like watching a four year old throw a tantrum.

The situation is obvious, Israel has every right to detain suspected combatants for as long as they want under the Geneva Conventions.

yet the pali's will stage it as if Israel is the bad guy.

go

What crime did he commit? Sounds like he's a journalist.

He is suspected of working with terrorists

Under the Geneva Conventions suspicion is sufficient cause for detention indefinitely

I don't consider this to be like watching a four year old throw a trantrum. Geneva conventions or not - he has a right to know what his crime is, and to be tried for it. Indefinate detention is just plain wrong as is comparing behavior to a child's tantrum. It's not really funny. Was Alice Paul a child throwing a tantrum? How about Cesar Chavez? Thomas Ashe? Guillermo Farinas? Mahatma Ghandi?

Under the Geneva Conventions he has no right to know what his crime is and he may be detained until the end of hostilities. Period.

Under Israeli law he may be detained for up to six months without charge at which point he may or may not be detained for another six months.

I'll have to go look that one up but either way his detention is perfectly legal under both Israeli or international law

PS your list of hero's includes some real winners. Chaves was well known for throwing tantrums just as Ghandi was

See
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=0ahUKEwiot5L8jYTLAhVT3GMKHV2ND4kQFggwMAM&url=http://www.history.com/topics/cesar-chavez&usg=AFQjCNGy_4mcAtTKLoKV_It6a0a04eJ0Tg&sig2=-7xMQlVbu1iCd4p4HhURkQ&bvm=bv.114733917,d.cGc

Quote

Miss Pawel, a Pulitzer Prize-winning author and editor, is the ideal biographer. She has researched her subject exhaustively. She writes well. She presents her findings objectively and does not pass judgment–so I will: Anyone who reads this book can only conclude that Cesar Chavez was a deceitful, foul-mouthed, philandering, sociopathic egomaniac who pretended to be a saint. And, yes, he had an unusual capacity to attract and inspire people, and worked very hard to start a farm workers union. Only a unique combination of circumstances could have made a hero out of this gifted but odious man:

End Quote

Chavez might have been what you said but he also fought for a just cause and his hunger strike was in support of that. He wasn't a murderer, he wasn't a rapist - and the migrants and farmworkers were badly mistreated and had no rights. Regardless of his personal character - his hunger strike was a non violent way to make a point. Same with Ghandi. And they were not the only people I mentioned. Hunger strikes in these cases - and I would consider indefinate detention with no charges to be worthy of it.

Interesting statement: Only a unique combination of circumstances could have made a hero out of this gifted but odious man. That's a great way to put it.

 

[Coyote]

B'Tselem Executive Director in Letter to Prime Minister: Order the Immediate Release of Hunger Striker Muhammad al-Qiq
It would seem that fair minded Israelis are uncomfortable with this abuse of power.

Fair minded Israeli's ?

No B'Tselem gets most of its funding from abroad. Its not Israeli's funding their kinda nonsense.

The fact is he's being detained as a suspected collaborator which is perfectly legal under both Israeli law and international law.

If he wants to throw a tantrum and refuse to eat thats his business but Israel is under no obligation to release him. They would however be fully within their rights, if they so chose, to shove a feeding down his throat and pour.

Well Israel itself is funded from abroad.
I also think the legal grounds are shaky to say the least.
What if the US decided to detain a few patriot groups on a similar basis ? I think there may be comment on that.

The legal grounds are well founded. Here in the US one may be detained indefinitely as well. From an international perspective again the Geneva Conventions apply and allow for any non-protected person to be detained indefinitely and without charge.

I'm sure you are aware that anyone within the area of the conflict who engages as a combatants, assists a combatant or is suspected of being or assisting a combatant forfeits their protected person status and may be detained without communication indefinitely or until the end of hostilities.

Israeli law is more than clear as well. Administrative detention is perfectly legal

The Geneva conventions as it applies to occupation?

 

[Coyote]

I don't consider this to be like watching a four year old throw a trantrum. Geneva conventions or not - he has a right to know what his crime is, and to be tried for it. Indefinate detention is just plain wrong as is comparing behavior to a child's tantrum. It's not really funny. Was Alice Paul a child throwing a tantrum? How about Cesar Chavez? Thomas Ashe? Guillermo Farinas? Mahatma Ghandi?

Considering you are on record here as having no problem with the Palestinian custom of honoring mass murderers of Jews and then stated that mass murderers so often do great things, are you hoping, here, that he is released so he can do some of those great thins you support?

I stated Menachem Begin and Nelson Mandella as two people who started out as terrorists, responsible for many murders, who transcended that and went on promote peace and reconciliation.

How do you take that and twist it into stating "mass murderers so often do great things"? That is a perfect example of your inherent dishonesty.

What about this man on the hunger strike? He's not a murderer, he has no charges, he can be held indefinately without charge or trial and there is an expectation he should sit back and accept that and a hunger strike is a child's tantrum?

What's next -- your mentioning Charles Manson in the same breath as Mother Teresa?

What do you think of Menachem Begin and Nelson Mandella?

Is their legacy defined only by one extreme or another or can prior evils be overcome by good actions, restitution, or a repudiation of violence?

As far as I can see Charles Manson was nothing but a psychopathic charasmatic murderer. If you think he's done anything good to transcend that I'd be interested in hearing about it.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

That's fine, Coyote. You have made it perfectly clear that there is no such thing as sanctity of life when it concerns Jews, so we will just have to agree to disagree here.

I do not really understand how anybody could be so hateful as to single out Jews as the one people on the face of the earth who cannot protect themselves from murder, but I am thankful that I am not one of those degraded individuals who thinks so.

 

[Coyote]

That's fine, Coyote. You have made it perfectly clear that there is no such thing as sanctity of life when it concerns Jews, so we will just have to agree to disagree here.

I do not really understand how anybody could be so hateful as to single out Jews as the one people on the face of the earth who cannot protect themselves from murder, but I am thankful that I am not one of those degraded individuals who thinks so.

I believe in the "sanctity of life" as you put it, for both Jews and Palestinians. I support (and have stated so many times) Israel's right to self defense in response to rocket fire, illegal tunnels, etc. I have no issue with that.

What I don't understand is why you don't extend that right further - to include the Palestinians in this conflict. Like the Jews they are diverse. Neither side is all monsters, and both have legitimate grievances and a just cause. There some injustices where it comes to Israeli treatment of Palestinians in the justice system, in the land system, in law enforcement. And - I am glad I am one of those people who believe basic human rights belong to all people, not just the likable ones.

So what do you think of Menachem Begin and Nelson Mandella? I think that is a worthwhile question because you have now, on multiple posts brought it up.

Is their legacy defined only by one extreme or another or can prior evils be overcome by good actions, restitution, or a repudiation of violence?

 

[Dogmaphobe]

[

So what do you think of Menachem Begin and Nelson Mandella? I think that is a worthwhile question because you have now, on multiple posts brought it up.

Please do not lie. I have not mentioned either even once.

The subject matter here has to do with a man with connections to terrorism being held in detention, and all the implications thereof. With this in mind, and all your attempts at sidetracking aside, that is the actual issue.