IDF Using Young Detainee As Human Shield 4/19/2013

[SherriMunnerlyn]

What were the rules of engagement for entering Gaza?*Fire at whoever was found in the street at the time?Usually rules of engagement were to open fire only at armed persons.Only armed men?Yes, but I don't remember that well. These things were not always on our mind, rules of engagement.Did you experience, for example, instances where you were told that during certain hours at night you should shoot anyone seen out on the street?No, I didn't experience anything of the kind.Shooting at lookouts on roofs, people standing on the roof holding a phone?Not to my knowledge, but our own missions were always more focused, not ongoing guard shifts where you have such things. You're not supposed to engage with anyone who's unconnected to your own mission. If, for example, you see someone walking and you do want to get to the house quietly, you simply hide, hoping he won't notice you. We were more on recon duty, not routine security.Did you have any crowd-dispersing ammo on you?What's that?Rubber bullets.Ah, no.Did you happen to fire any rubber ammo in the army?Only in maneuvers, I think. Once, to see what it was like. We didn't have any.Did you ever run into riots?We had nothing to do with such things.Human shield and neighbor procedure?Yes.When you conducted arrests, was it always with 'neighbor procedure'?Yes.Any real cases of human shields?I was never in a situation where you walk with someone, hiding behind his back, not that, but a part of "neighbor procedure" is that he enters every room in the house with you, and he goes in first so that if anything is booby-trapped he'll be the one to blow up, not you. And if you want, you keep telling him to open things, 'open up this closet', 'pick this up, take a look', or sometimes you say that to one of the people who live in that house, too. Say for instance it is not the guy you're looking for, but perhaps the wife or someone. So you tell her to open up everything, but the neighbor will really enter each room before you do

 

[irosie91]

well, talk about disrespecting our troops.

about the only thing i can surmise from your statement is that, if indeed you actually were

an officer, you would have to have been one of the most piss poor officers in the USN if you have that attitude for the enlisted sailor or troop.

chuck hagel was an enlisted man, and many fine officers came up through the enlisted ranks and there were a lot of us who turned down battlefield commissions or OCS. one reason is we didn't want to mingle with the likes of you. in fact, that was the main reason. y'all would give some funky ass order that would get a lot of people killed and the top sarge would come in and, behind your back, get the job done and everyone would walk
out alive.

the IDF has been caught red handed using palestinian kids as human shields by many different groups in many seperate incidents and yet you, m'am, make up your mind based on your experiences as a REMF.

wrong again I have a very high regard for our men----and a very
clear understanding of that which they endure under fire and what
leads them to occassional episodes of "revenge"----as to the "loss
of officers from 'friendly fire' "------yes---I did include that issue in
the category of "what they told me" Because of my experience
with OUR BOYS-----I can understand using an enemy as a shield---
as an officer-----were I in combat----my responsibility would be to
protect our boys at all costs.

unlike you, i do not group enlisted soldiers with disgruntled arrestees, implying that they are both liars...and then claim to have a very high regard for our troops. i ain't buying it M'AM.

were you in combat, your responsibility would be to protect YOUR MEN and not commit war crimes in so doing. i can only thank god you were never in combat or we would have my lai like massacres from the 17th friggin' parallel down to the mekong delta.

are you an example of a naval officer?

WRONG AGAIN---the MY LAI action was a war crime that had
nothing to do with PROTECTING lives of men under any officer's
charge ----(gee you are dim) and at no time did I
"EQUATE ENLISTED MEN WITH ARRESTEES" I have plainly
stated that I have experience with BOTH GROUPS----
at different times in my career. and stated both are
under great stress------still true----in fact both have
a very high suicide rate. As a fomer officer--I would say
that my job was LESS stressful than that of the enlisted
men-----at the time I was doing it-----I was not in combat

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Breaking the Silence ? Testimony - The neighbor enters each room before you

 

[sealadaigh]

it might be wise to differentiate between willing"human shields" and coerced human shields.

it also might be wise to distinguish whether the shield in question was a noncombatant "friendly" or a noncombatant "enemy".

i do not think HAMAS coerced noncombatants to become human shields.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Yes, Coyote, the same group. Currently they are claiming the Maraton bombings were 'staged' and the suspects "innocent"........

Their articles on he topic make reference to 'martial law' in Boston, and paint the FBI as 'framing' the suspects. Meanwhile, all over the Boston Metro area, people erupt in cheers when they see police officers......

NONE of that has anything to do with testiminies of former IDF soldiers of Breaking The Silence.

 

[irosie91]

I'm sorry about your reading comprehension issues: I wasn't 'denying' anything EXCEPT the validty of 'Global Research' conspiranutter BS filth webstain being a legitimate 'source' for anything but propoaganda.

If you want to disagree with my view, you'd need to show proof that 'GR' is not biased, doesn't have a particular agenda, that Alison Weir is a news reporter - something like that.

Is this the site? Centre for Research on Globalization

If so, I'm inclined to agree with you - the first link I clicked on was a flouridation conspiracy theory...I did not read further.

Oh gee---is FLOURIDE still a zionist plot?----it was----circa 1960

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

it might be wise to differentiate between willing"human shields" and coerced human shields.

it also might be wise to distinguish whether the shield in question was a noncombatant "friendly" or a noncombatant "enemy".

i do not think HAMAS coerced noncombatants to become human shields.

AMNESTY found no evidence of it in their investigation of Cast Lead. THERE were some controversial incidents that occurred I think in 2006, where women tried to shield their sons who the IDF was trying to burn to desth in a Mosque in Gaza. HRW tried to call that use of human shields, but I think they ultimately retracted that claim. ONE other incident addressed was neighbors voluntarily gathering at houses the IDF said they were going to destroy, the neighbors were trying to shield their neighbors house. THIS was voluntary and not coerced and not an unlawful use of human shields. UNDER some of these definitions being incorrectly used, for human shields, shoot, we should be calling Jesus Christ a human shield!

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

is this the site? centre for research on globalization

if so, i'm inclined to agree with you - the first link i clicked on was a flouridation conspiracy theory...i did not read further.

the source for what he is addressing, that is being addressed in the articles he cited, is testimoniesd of idf soldiers of breaking the silence. These soldiers testimonies have credibility.

I am sure anything reported from his source from these soldier's testimonies appears in breaking the silence documents on their website, too.

breaking the silence ? Israeli soldiers talk about the occupied territories

if those purported 'idf soldiers' are really so interested in truth - why do they hide their identities? I can't think of a single good reason.....which is why i do not trust the stories.

fear of their fascist government!

 

[MHunterB]

Since the Israeli government is NOT 'fascist' by any reasonable measure - that is simply nonsense.

 

[Coyote]

I'm sorry about your reading comprehension issues: I wasn't 'denying' anything EXCEPT the validty of 'Global Research' conspiranutter BS filth webstain being a legitimate 'source' for anything but propoaganda.

If you want to disagree with my view, you'd need to show proof that 'GR' is not biased, doesn't have a particular agenda, that Alison Weir is a news reporter - something like that.

Is this the site? Centre for Research on Globalization

If so, I'm inclined to agree with you - the first link I clicked on was a flouridation conspiracy theory...I did not read further.

Oh gee---is FLOURIDE still a zionist plot?----it was----circa 1960

No idea - I didn't realize it started as a "zionist" conspiracy theory - it's just an established tool in the conspiracy theory toolbox. The whole site kind of seems to support end of the world/conspiracy theory scenarios.

 

[irosie91]

the source for what he is addressing, that is being addressed in the articles he cited, is testimoniesd of idf soldiers of breaking the silence. These soldiers testimonies have credibility.

I am sure anything reported from his source from these soldier's testimonies appears in breaking the silence documents on their website, too.

breaking the silence ? Israeli soldiers talk about the occupied territories

if those purported 'idf soldiers' are really so interested in truth - why do they hide their identities? I can't think of a single good reason.....which is why i do not trust the stories.

fear of their fascist government!

another bit of ISA-RESPECTERs' projection---and wishful
thinking--------afterall----the isa-respecters do not want to
be the only people whose dissenters end up face down with
a knife in the back-----so why not fart out "THEY DO IT
TOO"

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Neighbor procedure' taken very far

testimony catalog number:*28214rank:*Staff Sergeantunit:*Golani Brigadearea:*Nablus area. This was on a mission in Nablus, done in the same way as I described in Tul Karm, going through house walls. For the first house, we chose someone for the "neighbor procedure" and this neighbor stayed with us for three days. He went on with us. We simply took him with us from house to house, as we already knew him. As I said, much use was made of hammers to break up houses. I remember once he offered to help us so we let him, and from a certain point on it seemed sort of obvious that he did this work. I'm now telling it in retrospect, talking about what took place back then. Now, I realize it wasn't like that. It seemed as though he wanted to be helpful. I realize he must have been very scared but looked as though he was enthusiastic about it, "Here, let me do this". When we had to climb on something, he'd go bring a chair, he really helped us. And so he went on, and all the guys – I was a young soldier then, not in the older company and as such you are less active, you stay further back -- he guys up front, the older company, already called him by his name and joked around with him, like, asking him whether he was for or against Hamas, or. . . I don't know, stuff like that. So he stayed on with us and only after three days he was just simply told, okay, you can go now, but he couldn't really8 go because he could not walk along the street. So the last family in whose house we had been seemed really nice, and with a show of solidarity they let him sleep over and I don't know whether or when he got home, probably when the operation was over or something. In hindsight, I just think it was really inconceivable to pick up someone like that for three whole days and made him our semi-slave without even giving it a thought.And he would smash the wall with a 5-kg hammer?Yes, smash away and they'd be looking on. I don't know. . .this was the "neighbor procedure" taken very far indeed.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Breaking the Silence ? Testimony - 'Neighbor procedure' taken very far

 

[Billo_Really]

No idea - I didn't realize it started as a "zionist" conspiracy theory - it's just an established tool in the conspiracy theory toolbox. The whole site kind of seems to support end of the world/conspiracy theory scenarios.

You couldn't be more wrong!

I challenge anyone to prove anything from that website isn't true.

They are linked to more college and university libraries than any other media outlet on the internet.

You should do your homework more before jumping to conclusions.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Since the Israeli government is NOT 'fascist' by any reasonable measure - that is simply nonsense.

NONSENSE is you closing your eyes to all the substantial evidence that the IDF makes a practice of using Palestinians as human shields.Why should it be surprising former soldiers are speaking about it? I already presented evidence from Btselem that the highest court in Israel has confirmed it as occurring.There are more testimonies on Btselems website too.

 

[Billo_Really]

Since the Israeli government is NOT 'fascist' by any reasonable measure - that is simply nonsense.

How is the Knesset outlawing dissent any different from that of nazi Germany?

 

[sealadaigh]

wrong again I have a very high regard for our men----and a very
clear understanding of that which they endure under fire and what
leads them to occassional episodes of "revenge"----as to the "loss
of officers from 'friendly fire' "------yes---I did include that issue in
the category of "what they told me" Because of my experience
with OUR BOYS-----I can understand using an enemy as a shield---
as an officer-----were I in combat----my responsibility would be to
protect our boys at all costs.

unlike you, i do not group enlisted soldiers with disgruntled arrestees, implying that they are both liars...and then claim to have a very high regard for our troops. i ain't buying it M'AM.

were you in combat, your responsibility would be to protect YOUR MEN and not commit war crimes in so doing. i can only thank god you were never in combat or we would have my lai like massacres from the 17th friggin' parallel down to the mekong delta.

are you an example of a naval officer?

WRONG AGAIN---the MY LAI action was a war crime that had
nothing to do with PROTECTING lives of men under any officer's
charge ----(gee you are dim) and at no time did I
"EQUATE ENLISTED MEN WITH ARRESTEES" I have plainly
stated that I have experience with BOTH GROUPS----
at different times in my career. and stated both are
under great stress------still true----in fact both have
a very high suicide rate. As a fomer officer--I would say
that my job was LESS stressful than that of the enlisted
men-----at the time I was doing it-----I was not in combat

you placed enlisted men and arrestees in the same group. that is not necessarily equating the two but in the context of your post, it ccame pretty damn close. what you essentially stated was that both groups had similar problems with veracity.

while my lai was a war crime, your complete lack of understanding as to what could have brought it about and how quickly things can go south clearly indicates that you have no idea about the real effects of combat and your comment that you would do anything to protect your "boys" further indicates that you have little or no idea what you are talking about...and you are adding qualifications. the "anything" is having "excepts" added.

you better shape up, M'AM, before you go callin' enlisted personnel liars...and do not even dare try to compare the U.S. military with the IDF.

god, i hope my son never has an officer like you anywhere near him.

of course i am dim, M'AM. i enlisted and you have made it abundantly clear what you think of those of us that enlist in our military. there were times in my life where i had regretted refusing a commission or turning down OCS. i perhaps should thank you or taking away those regrets.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

One more thing about ‘neighbor procedure’

"testimony catalog number:*592388rank:*Staff Sergeantunit:*Paratroopersperiod:*2005One more thing about ‘neighbor procedure’: I remember for sure at least two more cases in my team, one where a child was forced to enter and another time, I think it was an adult, who was made to go into a house, turn on the lights and open the doors, and that information was not passed on to the forces on radio, that someone was entering the house to open everything. I was in the peripheral closing teams, and suddenly I saw a door open and someone peeking out. My instinctive reaction was to raise my gun and almost shoot, because I know the house is empty. There’s no one there, supposedly, everyone’s been removed, and if anyone is still inside, it must be a terrorist who didn’t come out when we called out. Suddenly a door opens and someone comes out. Your first instinct is to raise the gun, the next is to shoot. Luckily I didn’t, because I identified that it was a child. But hey, if it had been a bit darker, if he would have just peeped out, lots of ifs – I would have opened fire, perhaps.*How old was he?In this specific case, I don’t know. I can estimate, you know, 12. I think it was in Ilar, Salfit, I don’t remember, one of those villages."* In this testimony, a child isbeing used as a shield and all the soldiers have not been told. A SOLDIER RECOUNTS HOW HE ALMOST SHOT THIS CHILD BEING USED BY THE IDF AS A HUMAN SHIELD.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

One more thing about ‘neighbor procedure’

"testimony catalog number:*592388rank:*Staff Sergeantunit:*Paratroopersperiod:*2005One more thing about ‘neighbor procedure’: I remember for sure at least two more cases in my team, one where a child was forced to enter and another time, I think it was an adult, who was made to go into a house, turn on the lights and open the doors, and that information was not passed on to the forces on radio, that someone was entering the house to open everything. I was in the peripheral closing teams, and suddenly I saw a door open and someone peeking out. My instinctive reaction was to raise my gun and almost shoot, because I know the house is empty. There’s no one there, supposedly, everyone’s been removed, and if anyone is still inside, it must be a terrorist who didn’t come out when we called out. Suddenly a door opens and someone comes out. Your first instinct is to raise the gun, the next is to shoot. Luckily I didn’t, because I identified that it was a child. But hey, if it had been a bit darker, if he would have just peeped out, lots of ifs – I would have opened fire, perhaps.*How old was he?In this specific case, I don’t know. I can estimate, you know, 12. I think it was in Ilar, Salfit, I don’t remember, one of those villages."* In this testimony, a child isbeing used as a shield and all the soldiers have not been told. A SOLDIER RECOUNTS HOW HE ALMOST SHOT THIS CHILD BEING USED BY THE IDF AS A HUMAN SHIELD.

Breaking the Silence ? Testimony - One more thing about ?neighbor procedure?

 

[Coyote]

Since the Israeli government is NOT 'fascist' by any reasonable measure - that is simply nonsense.

How is the Knesset outlawing dissent any different from that of nazi Germany?

Whoa there.....are you seriously asking that?

It's leagues different - it's not good to outlaw dissent - but it's a far cry from Nazi Germany