I'd Like (However Many) Breaks A Day Too

[PaintMyHouse]

Gonna get nailed on that one unless they can prove there is no way to accommodate the Muslim faithful. And learn when Muslims pray, it's not five times during 9 to 5.

Just to point out, the standard is not "no way to accommodate", the standard is "undue hardship". The company only need show that allowing the breaks causes a disruption of production which decreases efficiency and cost them more then a minimal amount of money.


>>>>

It has to show that it is an "unreasonable disruption", like a pharmacy that has to switch staff at the window because one will not issue Plan B or birth control which is NOT unreasonable in most cases. It will likely always be a "disruption" to the work day, the question is, how unreasonable is it? People eating and using the toilet disrupts things, but we allow for it.

And I clarified my initial post. TY.

you got a list of jobs in which popping out for prayers for half an hour two, three or four times per day is NOT DISRUPTIVE? I held many DIFFERENT jobs in my life-----before getting into a specific profession-------even "sales/stock" girl in a large department store could not tolerate such disruptions. Pious muslims could
do "piece work" at home-------or become artisans like shoemakers----working
independently

It's not that hard to allow people to pray, even if it must be done at certain times. Life will go on...

 

[irosie91]

Gonna get nailed on that one unless they can prove there is no way to accommodate the Muslim faithful. And learn when Muslims pray, it's not five times during 9 to 5.

Just to point out, the standard is not "no way to accommodate", the standard is "undue hardship". The company only need show that allowing the breaks causes a disruption of production which decreases efficiency and cost them more then a minimal amount of money.


>>>>

It has to show that it is an "unreasonable disruption", like a pharmacy that has to switch staff at the window because one will not issue Plan B or birth control which is NOT unreasonable in most cases. It will likely always be a "disruption" to the work day, the question is, how unreasonable is it? People eating and using the toilet disrupts things, but we allow for it.

And I clarified my initial post. TY.

you got a list of jobs in which popping out for prayers for half an hour two, three or four times per day is NOT DISRUPTIVE? I held many DIFFERENT jobs in my life-----before getting into a specific profession-------even "sales/stock" girl in a large department store could not tolerate such disruptions. Pious muslims could
do "piece work" at home-------or become artisans like shoemakers----working
independently

It's not that hard to allow people to pray, even if it must be done at certain times. Life will go on...

I have the sense that you never held JOBS in your life. In the USA most kids
do unskilled jobs in their teens and college years. I DID--------I worked a switchboard----the old fashioned PBX style thing in a HUGE COUNTY hospital------
there would have BEEN HAVOC there if I suddenly decided to POP OUT
for a 15 minute "PRAYER" session ------here and there, now and then.
I did a little time on something like an ASSEMBLY LINE too..... JUST LET THE
CONVEYER BELTS ROLL. Some of the jobs I had ---included SCHEDULE BREAKS BY LAW---------10 minutes per four hours ----BY STATE LAW--------
that's the time when I drank a coke and ate a plastic wrapped bit of plastic
cake from the vending machine--------I could have prayed if I had felt so inclined---
but I could not DEMAND a few EXTRA 10 minute breaks

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Gonna get nailed on that one unless they can prove there is no way to accommodate the Muslim faithful. And learn when Muslims pray, it's not five times during 9 to 5.

Just to point out, the standard is not "no way to accommodate", the standard is "undue hardship". The company only need show that allowing the breaks causes a disruption of production which decreases efficiency and cost them more then a minimal amount of money.


>>>>

It has to show that it is an "unreasonable disruption", like a pharmacy that has to switch staff at the window because one will not issue Plan B or birth control which is NOT unreasonable in most cases. It will likely always be a "disruption" to the work day, the question is, how unreasonable is it? People eating and using the toilet disrupts things, but we allow for it.

And I clarified my initial post. TY.

you got a list of jobs in which popping out for prayers for half an hour two, three or four times per day is NOT DISRUPTIVE? I held many DIFFERENT jobs in my life-----before getting into a specific profession-------even "sales/stock" girl in a large department store could not tolerate such disruptions. Pious muslims could
do "piece work" at home-------or become artisans like shoemakers----working
independently

It's not that hard to allow people to pray, even if it must be done at certain times. Life will go on...

I have the sense that you never held JOBS in your life. In the USA most kids
do unskilled jobs in their teens and college years. I DID--------I worked a switchboard----the old fashioned PBX style thing in a HUGE COUNTY hospital------
there would have BEEN HAVOC there if I suddenly decided to POP OUT
for a 15 minute "PRAYER" session ------here and there, now and then.
I did a little time on something like an ASSEMBLY LINE too..... JUST LET THE
CONVEYER BELTS ROLL. Some of the jobs I had ---included SCHEDULE BREAKS BY LAW---------10 minutes per four hours ----BY STATE LAW--------
that's the time when I drank a coke and ate a plastic wrapped bit of plastic
cake from the vending machine--------I could have prayed if I had felt so inclined---
but I could not DEMAND a few EXTRA 10 minute breaks

I'm white collar, not blue. And stop making a mountain out of a prayer circle.

 

[irosie91]

Gonna get nailed on that one unless they can prove there is no way to accommodate the Muslim faithful. And learn when Muslims pray, it's not five times during 9 to 5.

Just to point out, the standard is not "no way to accommodate", the standard is "undue hardship". The company only need show that allowing the breaks causes a disruption of production which decreases efficiency and cost them more then a minimal amount of money.


>>>>

It has to show that it is an "unreasonable disruption", like a pharmacy that has to switch staff at the window because one will not issue Plan B or birth control which is NOT unreasonable in most cases. It will likely always be a "disruption" to the work day, the question is, how unreasonable is it? People eating and using the toilet disrupts things, but we allow for it.

And I clarified my initial post. TY.

you got a list of jobs in which popping out for prayers for half an hour two, three or four times per day is NOT DISRUPTIVE? I held many DIFFERENT jobs in my life-----before getting into a specific profession-------even "sales/stock" girl in a large department store could not tolerate such disruptions. Pious muslims could
do "piece work" at home-------or become artisans like shoemakers----working
independently

It's not that hard to allow people to pray, even if it must be done at certain times. Life will go on...

for muslims ----the times are not all that "STRICT" -----there is some flexibility----same for jews (mandatory praying three times per day) The assembly lines
do not STOP for anyone if one has an assembly line job. The cardiac surgery does not SUSPEND itself for some orthodox jewish boy intern either. The
SUBWAY system does not go into SHUTDOWN -----for Maariv (jewish evening
prayer) PEOPLE OF VARIOUS RELIGIONS in the USA have either ADAPTED
themselves or developed little private kinds of work that adapt well enough.
My grandfather was a baker in a kosher bakery-------lots of his colleagues
were VERY ORTHODOX. Think history-----imagine some orthodox jews
deamanding of HENRY FORD "close the assembly line for maariv"

 

[OldLady]

I'd rather spend my breaks having a smoke or a Twinkie than praying; not much of a 'break,' from their perspective.

if they have a right, you MUST have a right, too

?

What is your question, Old Lady?

Just not sure what you meant. It seems if they're busy fulfilling a religious obligation, it's not a 'break' in the regular sense. Do you argue if they get prayer breaks, the non-Muslims must get the same amount of breaks? Is that the problem?

Who says they have to be extra breaks?

If they were cigarette breaks conservatives would love them

I'm trying to clarify something with Rosie. I didn't say anything about extra breaks, or didn't mean to, anyway.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Gonna get nailed on that one unless they can prove there is no way to accommodate the Muslim faithful. And learn when Muslims pray, it's not five times during 9 to 5.

Just to point out, the standard is not "no way to accommodate", the standard is "undue hardship". The company only need show that allowing the breaks causes a disruption of production which decreases efficiency and cost them more then a minimal amount of money.


>>>>

It has to show that it is an "unreasonable disruption", like a pharmacy that has to switch staff at the window because one will not issue Plan B or birth control which is NOT unreasonable in most cases. It will likely always be a "disruption" to the work day, the question is, how unreasonable is it? People eating and using the toilet disrupts things, but we allow for it.

And I clarified my initial post. TY.

you got a list of jobs in which popping out for prayers for half an hour two, three or four times per day is NOT DISRUPTIVE? I held many DIFFERENT jobs in my life-----before getting into a specific profession-------even "sales/stock" girl in a large department store could not tolerate such disruptions. Pious muslims could
do "piece work" at home-------or become artisans like shoemakers----working
independently

It's not that hard to allow people to pray, even if it must be done at certain times. Life will go on...

for muslims ----the times are not all that "STRICT" -----there is some flexibility----same for jews (mandatory praying three times per day) The assembly lines
do not STOP for anyone if one has an assembly line job. The cardiac surgery does not SUSPEND itself for some orthodox jewish boy intern either. The
SUBWAY system does not go into SHUTDOWN -----for Maariv (jewish evening
prayer) PEOPLE OF VARIOUS RELIGIONS in the USA have either ADAPTED
themselves or developed little private kinds of work that adapt well enough.
My grandfather was a baker in a kosher bakery-------lots of his colleagues
were VERY ORTHODOX. Think history-----imagine some orthodox jews
deamanding of HENRY FORD "close the assembly line for maariv"

The line does not need to shut down, nor does it.

 

[irosie91]

Just to point out, the standard is not "no way to accommodate", the standard is "undue hardship". The company only need show that allowing the breaks causes a disruption of production which decreases efficiency and cost them more then a minimal amount of money.


>>>>

It has to show that it is an "unreasonable disruption", like a pharmacy that has to switch staff at the window because one will not issue Plan B or birth control which is NOT unreasonable in most cases. It will likely always be a "disruption" to the work day, the question is, how unreasonable is it? People eating and using the toilet disrupts things, but we allow for it.

And I clarified my initial post. TY.

you got a list of jobs in which popping out for prayers for half an hour two, three or four times per day is NOT DISRUPTIVE? I held many DIFFERENT jobs in my life-----before getting into a specific profession-------even "sales/stock" girl in a large department store could not tolerate such disruptions. Pious muslims could
do "piece work" at home-------or become artisans like shoemakers----working
independently

It's not that hard to allow people to pray, even if it must be done at certain times. Life will go on...

for muslims ----the times are not all that "STRICT" -----there is some flexibility----same for jews (mandatory praying three times per day) The assembly lines
do not STOP for anyone if one has an assembly line job. The cardiac surgery does not SUSPEND itself for some orthodox jewish boy intern either. The
SUBWAY system does not go into SHUTDOWN -----for Maariv (jewish evening
prayer) PEOPLE OF VARIOUS RELIGIONS in the USA have either ADAPTED
themselves or developed little private kinds of work that adapt well enough.
My grandfather was a baker in a kosher bakery-------lots of his colleagues
were VERY ORTHODOX. Think history-----imagine some orthodox jews
deamanding of HENRY FORD "close the assembly line for maariv"

The line does not need to shut down, nor does it.

SPECIAL accomodations for --"special persons" do not work

 

[SassyIrishLass]

An accommodation does not have to be granted if it causes hardship on the employer. That's the law and the Muslims have no case.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

It has to show that it is an "unreasonable disruption", like a pharmacy that has to switch staff at the window because one will not issue Plan B or birth control which is NOT unreasonable in most cases. It will likely always be a "disruption" to the work day, the question is, how unreasonable is it? People eating and using the toilet disrupts things, but we allow for it.

And I clarified my initial post. TY.

you got a list of jobs in which popping out for prayers for half an hour two, three or four times per day is NOT DISRUPTIVE? I held many DIFFERENT jobs in my life-----before getting into a specific profession-------even "sales/stock" girl in a large department store could not tolerate such disruptions. Pious muslims could
do "piece work" at home-------or become artisans like shoemakers----working
independently

It's not that hard to allow people to pray, even if it must be done at certain times. Life will go on...

for muslims ----the times are not all that "STRICT" -----there is some flexibility----same for jews (mandatory praying three times per day) The assembly lines
do not STOP for anyone if one has an assembly line job. The cardiac surgery does not SUSPEND itself for some orthodox jewish boy intern either. The
SUBWAY system does not go into SHUTDOWN -----for Maariv (jewish evening
prayer) PEOPLE OF VARIOUS RELIGIONS in the USA have either ADAPTED
themselves or developed little private kinds of work that adapt well enough.
My grandfather was a baker in a kosher bakery-------lots of his colleagues
were VERY ORTHODOX. Think history-----imagine some orthodox jews
deamanding of HENRY FORD "close the assembly line for maariv"

The line does not need to shut down, nor does it.

SPECIAL accomodations for --"special persons" do not work

Of course they do, we've had them for a very long time, if they are reasonable.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

An accommodation does not have to be granted if it causes hardship on the employer. That's the law and the Muslims have no case.

An unreasonable hardship, and undue burden, and that's not easy to prove. It's not this guy needs Good Friday off, in most cases.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

An accommodation does not have to be granted if it causes hardship on the employer. That's the law and the Muslims have no case.

An unreasonable hardship, and undue burden, and that's not easy to prove. It's not this guy needs Good Friday off, in most cases.

A lot of companies dont honor that ONE day a year.
So why should they accommodate something that happens twice a day?

 

[Skull Pilot]

The OP's thread title is misleading.

Depending on the job's hours or which shift the the person is working.

A muslin wishing to pray during work hours.

Would only need one, or at most two prayer breaks, to fulfill his religious obligation. ......

I've been wondering about this since the Cargill company did the same: How do industries/companies in Muslim countries handle this? And if a Muslim doesn't have the opportunity to pray 5 times a day, what will happen to him/her? Have any practical accomodations been made for this in the 21st century?

Businesses in muslim countries probably set their breaks up around prayer time and if employees don't want to pray they behead them and hire someone else

 

[irosie91]

if they have a right, you MUST have a right, too

?

What is your question, Old Lady?

Just not sure what you meant. It seems if they're busy fulfilling a religious obligation, it's not a 'break' in the regular sense. Do you argue if they get prayer breaks, the non-Muslims must get the same amount of breaks? Is that the problem?

Who says they have to be extra breaks?

If they were cigarette breaks conservatives would love them

I'm trying to clarify something with Rosie. I didn't say anything about extra breaks, or didn't mean to, anyway.

It really does come to "EXTRA" breaks and "EXTRA" accomodations
when you get into the MUSLIM THING and "CAIR" This issue is
nothing new. I have several points. One is----it ain't nutthin' new.
and the other is "religious 'obligations' and other cultural 'obligations'
are not UNIQUE to muslims. just about everyone can properly
claim a few---------some muslims are, lately, in England, and in the USA-----making them a POLITICAL ISSUE NOW ----THINK! SLIPPERY SLOPE

 

[SassyIrishLass]

An accommodation does not have to be granted if it causes hardship on the employer. That's the law and the Muslims have no case.

An unreasonable hardship, and undue burden, and that's not easy to prove. It's not this guy needs Good Friday off, in most cases.

My husband is an attorney, the law is clear. Now shush with your amateur BS, you're just arguing to argue w/o facts as usual

 

[PaintMyHouse]

An accommodation does not have to be granted if it causes hardship on the employer. That's the law and the Muslims have no case.

An unreasonable hardship, and undue burden, and that's not easy to prove. It's not this guy needs Good Friday off, in most cases.

A lot of companies dont honor that ONE day a year.
So why should they accommodate something that happens twice a day?

Because it's required here: WYSK: Workplace Religious Accommodation

 

[PaintMyHouse]

An accommodation does not have to be granted if it causes hardship on the employer. That's the law and the Muslims have no case.

An unreasonable hardship, and undue burden, and that's not easy to prove. It's not this guy needs Good Friday off, in most cases.

My husband is an attorney, the law is clear. Now shush with your amateur BS, you're just arguing to argue w/o facts as usual

I know what he does, but you don't know the laws. See above.

 

[OldLady]

The elephant in the room, which everyone is ignoring, is Why Now? If it was working before, what has caused this change in policy? Is it Islamophobia or just a culture clash of East meets West? The article didn't make it clear what's happened to suddenly make prayer times an issue. Unless all the Muslim employees were recently hired and the company is just discovering that it isn't working.

 

[irosie91]

The OP's thread title is misleading.

Depending on the job's hours or which shift the the person is working.

A muslin wishing to pray during work hours.

Would only need one, or at most two prayer breaks, to fulfill his religious obligation. ......

I've been wondering about this since the Cargill company did the same: How do industries/companies in Muslim countries handle this? And if a Muslim doesn't have the opportunity to pray 5 times a day, what will happen to him/her? Have any practical accomodations been made for this in the 21st century?

Businesses in muslim countries probably set their breaks up around prayer time and if employees don't want to pray they behead them and hire someone else

there are

Just to point out, the standard is not "no way to accommodate", the standard is "undue hardship". The company only need show that allowing the breaks causes a disruption of production which decreases efficiency and cost them more then a minimal amount of money.


>>>>

It has to show that it is an "unreasonable disruption", like a pharmacy that has to switch staff at the window because one will not issue Plan B or birth control which is NOT unreasonable in most cases. It will likely always be a "disruption" to the work day, the question is, how unreasonable is it? People eating and using the toilet disrupts things, but we allow for it.

And I clarified my initial post. TY.

you got a list of jobs in which popping out for prayers for half an hour two, three or four times per day is NOT DISRUPTIVE? I held many DIFFERENT jobs in my life-----before getting into a specific profession-------even "sales/stock" girl in a large department store could not tolerate such disruptions. Pious muslims could
do "piece work" at home-------or become artisans like shoemakers----working
independently

It's not that hard to allow people to pray, even if it must be done at certain times. Life will go on...

I have the sense that you never held JOBS in your life. In the USA most kids
do unskilled jobs in their teens and college years. I DID--------I worked a switchboard----the old fashioned PBX style thing in a HUGE COUNTY hospital------
there would have BEEN HAVOC there if I suddenly decided to POP OUT
for a 15 minute "PRAYER" session ------here and there, now and then.
I did a little time on something like an ASSEMBLY LINE too..... JUST LET THE
CONVEYER BELTS ROLL. Some of the jobs I had ---included SCHEDULE BREAKS BY LAW---------10 minutes per four hours ----BY STATE LAW--------
that's the time when I drank a coke and ate a plastic wrapped bit of plastic
cake from the vending machine--------I could have prayed if I had felt so inclined---
but I could not DEMAND a few EXTRA 10 minute breaks

I'm white collar, not blue. And stop making a mountain out of a prayer circle.

I am retired white collar------I was blue collar as a high school and undergraduate
student (and a few times as a graduate student) SEE? I "know it all".
I have worked "white collar" with white collar muslims and hindus and Christians and jews and----several
other "things" and also with lots of different things as clients. I watched it all
EVOLVE in the USA over the past almost 50 years ----------close up. Muslim
prayer is not just a prayer circle for a few minutes-------when CONVENIENT FOR
ALL PLAYERS AND NON PLAYERS--------it could be------and was in the DISTANT
(my distant) past-------but now it has EVOLVED into a POLITICAL DEMAND.
Ponder on this-------we have "JAINS" in the USA-------imagine a DEMAND that
SCHOOL LUNCHES be adherent to JAIN dietary rules. No meat, or eggs or
even ONIONS ----(or any other root veggie). I do not know what rituals JAINS
do during the day-----but they do have rituals. Jains I have known did not BOTHER anyone about them. I knew Muslims and what they do-----or some of
the PIOUS amongst them do------EVEN BEFORE IT BECAME A POLITICAL ISSUE

 

[irosie91]

An accommodation does not have to be granted if it causes hardship on the employer. That's the law and the Muslims have no case.

An unreasonable hardship, and undue burden, and that's not easy to prove. It's not this guy needs Good Friday off, in most cases.

My husband is an attorney, the law is clear. Now shush with your amateur BS, you're just arguing to argue w/o facts as usual

I know what he does, but you don't know the laws. See above.

DAMN LASSIE-----now you tell me your hubby is a lawyer-----DAMN-----
imagine-----I used to like you..........

 

[SassyIrishLass]

An accommodation does not have to be granted if it causes hardship on the employer. That's the law and the Muslims have no case.

An unreasonable hardship, and undue burden, and that's not easy to prove. It's not this guy needs Good Friday off, in most cases.

My husband is an attorney, the law is clear. Now shush with your amateur BS, you're just arguing to argue w/o facts as usual

I know what he does, but you don't know the laws. See above.

DAMN LASSIE-----now you tell me your hubby is a lawyer-----DAMN-----
imagine-----I used to like you..........

Yeah nobody likes lawyers...until they need one, much like the police