I will not Bow!

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toastman, et al,

This is a discussion of history.


(COMMENT)

I think it is important for the Arab-Palestinian to understand that the last six decades of conflict were not based on the Arab-Palestinians being withheld from their right of self-determination or some illegality of the 1947 Resolution. There may be other reasons, but clearly that is not one of them.

Their choice to pursue conflict, was a form of self-determination. They eventually came to recognized the resolution and exercise their sovereignty. Now all they need to do is reject Jihad and armed struggle concepts.

Most Respectfully,
R

It was clearly illegality and no matter how hard you try to convince others that ethnically cleansing most non-Jews from what is now Israel was legal.

The civil rights of the non-Jews were not safeguarded as required by the Mandate Article 2.

"ART. 2.

The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion."

What specifically was illegal ?

Ethnically cleansing the non-Jews is a crime against humanity, not preserving the civil rights of the non-Jews (by allowing the majority of them to be ethnically cleansed) was contrary to what Britain agreed to do in accordance with the Mandate.
 
It was clearly illegality and no matter how hard you try to convince others that ethnically cleansing most non-Jews from what is now Israel was legal.

The civil rights of the non-Jews were not safeguarded as required by the Mandate Article 2.

"ART. 2.

The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion."

What specifically was illegal ?

Ethnically cleansing the non-Jews is a crime against humanity, not preserving the civil rights of the non-Jews (by allowing the majority of them to be ethnically cleansed) was contrary to what Britain agreed to do in accordance with the Mandate.

You may very well be correct...and about three people other than yourself cares.
 
You may very well be correct...and about three people other than yourself cares.

The world cares about ethnic cleansing of non-Jews.

Israel might not care but that matters little. The world is used to Israel being selfish and unswayed by the suffering of others.
 
You may very well be correct...and about three people other than yourself cares.

The world cares about ethnic cleansing of non-Jews.

Israel might not care but that matters little. The world is used to Israel being selfish and unswayed by the suffering of others.

I see...
That's why Israeli physicians are in every Arab Spring nation right now helping.
Do you practice being an a$$-hole or does it come naturally?
 
I see...
That's why Israeli physicians are in every Arab Spring nation right now helping.
Do you practice being an a$$-hole or does it come naturally?

This is why much of the world hates Israel. They are rude, arrogant, and unable to tolerate different points of view, especially ones that are critical of Israel.
 
You may very well be correct...and about three people other than yourself cares.

The world cares about ethnic cleansing of non-Jews.

Israel might not care but that matters little. The world is used to Israel being selfish and unswayed by the suffering of others.

I see...
That's why Israeli physicians are in every Arab Spring nation right now helping.
Do you practice being an a$$-hole or does it come naturally?

Israelis are helping Syrian refugees.
 
I see...
That's why Israeli physicians are in every Arab Spring nation right now helping.
Do you practice being an a$$-hole or does it come naturally?

Israeli doctors are in Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, Syria, Bahrain, Yemen, and Algeria?

That's total bullshit and you know it.
 
I see...
That's why Israeli physicians are in every Arab Spring nation right now helping.
Do you practice being an a$$-hole or does it come naturally?

Israeli doctors are in Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, Syria, Bahrain, Yemen, and Algeria?

That's total bullshit and you know it.

My wife surfs the neutral sites while you read AllahAkbar.com all day.
 
My wife surfs the neutral sites while you read AllahAkbar.com all day.

Please show me some proof that Israeli doctors are today operating in
Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, Syria, Bahrain, Yemen, and Algeria. Or you should retract your claim.
 
P F Tinmore; et al,

This is another complaint from the perpetual victim.

Illegal external interference extraordinaire!

And nobody from Palestine.
(COMMENT)

The territory was under UN Mandate/Trusteeship, because the indigenous population could not then (much as it does now) demonstrate that it was able to stand alone, practice tolerance in their international relations, settle their international disputes by nonviolent means in such a manner that international peace, security, and justice are not endangered. Neither was it the case that the indigenous population could refrain in their from the use of threat and force against the territorial integrity or political independence of an another State.
  • The external interference was the 5 Arab League Nations that invaded the UN Trusteeship.
  • There were no regional Jewish or Arab direct membership on the UNSCOP. It was a decision best left to the independent members and the TrusteeShip/Mandate Commission.
Having said that, there was invited Jewish or Arab Palestinian participation; although as usual, the Arab Palestinian lacked a certain enthusiasm in the crafting of the outcome.



And the Statements by the representatives of the Arab countries also participated, as in the 38th Meeting Held at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs; Beirut, Lebanon, on Tuesday 22 July 1947 (A/AC.13/PV.38 4 August 1947).

While the Arab Higher Committee (Arab Palestinians) lacked a certain air of cooperation, as you can see, the UNSCOP attempted to bring them into the process.

The Recommendations, if they were absent Arab Palestinian input, was not a product of the UNSCOP Process shutting them out as you would have the discussion group believe.

Most Respectfully,
R

All smokescreen aside:

Reaffirming the obligation of Member States to comply with the
principles of the Charter and the resolutions of the United Nations
regarding the right to self-determination, by virtue of which all
peoples can freely determine, without external interference, their
political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural
development,

Reaffirming also, in this context, the right of the Palestinian
people to self-determination,...

A/RES/50/172. Respect for the principles of national sovereignty and non-interference in the internal affairs of States in their electoral processes

Does it say without external interference, except by...? No it does not.

Whenever I bring up the right to self-determination, by virtue of which all peoples can freely determine, without external interference,... you always respond with a list of shit that foreigners did.

Natives are internal. Foreigners are external. Try to keep that straight.



As in Egyptian, Jordanian, Saudi, Iraqi etc who all interfered to stop the Palestinians self determination
 
All smokescreen aside:

As in Egyptian, Jordanian, Saudi, Iraqi etc who all interfered to stop the Palestinians self determination

You seem to be very good at disregarding all evidence that counters your pre-conceived notions of truth. Reports from Peace Now, text from the 4th Geneva Conventions, maps of Jerusalem, and now a pretty thought out analysis of UN law.

This is why Israel has so many enemies and peace is so difficult. It is a nation full of people that ignore everything they don't want to see and hear.
 
Indeed, that was the purpose of the mandates.



Britain violated the LoN Covenant at the behest of the foreign World Zionist Organization, and violated the inherent rights of the Palestinians. After two a half decades of mandate there was still no elected government.

The Palestinians defend their country and seek justice. They hold the legal and moral high ground.

By pushing a wheelchair-bound old man into the sea? By blowing up a family at their Passover meal? By killing Israeli athletes competing in a foreign country? By smothering an old lady in her bed in Uganda, after she was left behind in the Entebbe raid?

Chickenfeed compared to Israel's crimes.





What crimes would they be then ?
 
I don't advocate killing them.

I advocate evicting them from the West Bank and Gaza by force-of-arms, and expelling them into Jordan and Lebanon, then moving Israelis into the vacuum left by their departure.

And of course none of the Israelis here who accuse me of wanting to violate Jewish rights, will dare challenge your very racist goal.

[MENTION=44172]Sweet_Caroline[/MENTION] [MENTION=35705]Phoenall[/MENTION]

This is because too many Israelis have a "blue wall of silence" and refuse to ever be critical of Israeli racism or fascism.





Read what he wrote and see that it is his opinion, and as such is not open to question. You on the other hand spout NAZI HATRED straight from the hate sites, and then deflect when shown to be doing so.
 
What crimes would they be then ?

Misuse of confiscated private land during a war.

Ethnic cleansing and illegal deporations of Protected Persons during a war.

Use of State land in Occupied Territory for discriminatory purposes.

Violation of the civil rights of Protected Persons in Occupied Territories.
 
Read what he wrote and see that it is his opinion, and as such is not open to question. You on the other hand spout NAZI HATRED straight from the hate sites, and then deflect when shown to be doing so.

Criticising Israel does not equal "Nazi hatred".

It is attitudes like yours that leads to hated and animosity towards Israel and Israelis.

If you want to know why many people around the world dislike Israel, read your posts and look in the mirror.
 
"...Ethnically cleansing the non-Jews is a crime against humanity, not preserving the civil rights of the non-Jews (by allowing the majority of them to be ethnically cleansed) was contrary to what Britain agreed to do in accordance with the Mandate."
Most Friendlies prefer the term 'Population Transfer'.

As in the massive 'transfer' of Jewish populations from Muslim countries in the 1948-1975 timeframe.

'Humanity' didn't do diddly-squat for the Jews when the Jews were being 'ethnically cleansed' or 'transferred' from their European homes into ghettos and camps...

'Humanity' didn't do diddly-squat for the Jews when the Muslim-Arabs were kicking them or pressuring them out of one Muslim country after another in the 1948-1975 timeframe...

What makes you think 'Humanity' is going to do diddly-squate when the Jews finally turn the tables and evict and expel a couple of million hostiles?

Hell, even their Arab-Muslim neighbors don't want anything to do with the mad-dog Palestinians.

Otherwise, why would the Egyptians wall them off and blockade Gaza, alongside the Israelis?

Methinks your 'crimes against humanity' pitch isn't going to get the kind of traction you're hoping for...

The Muslims, and the Palestinians, have done far too much of that themselves - and to Jews who were not shooting at them, no less - for that to work as well for you as you would like...
 
15th post
Most Friendlies prefer the term 'Population Transfer'.

As in the massive 'transfer' of Jewish populations from Muslim countries in the 1948-1975 timeframe.

'Humanity' didn't do diddly-squat for the Jews when the Jews were being 'ethnically cleansed' or 'transferred' from their European homes into ghettos and camps...

'Humanity' didn't do diddly-squat for the Jews when the Muslim-Arabs were kicking them or pressuring them out of one Muslim country after another in the 1948-1975 timeframe...

What makes you think 'Humanity' is going to do diddly-squate when the Jews finally turn the tables and evict and expel a couple of million hostiles?

If you and Israel are willing to suffer world-wide boycott and total paraia status, be my guest.

Just don't cry about "anti-Semitism" when it happens because the world will laugh.
[MENTION=44172]Sweet_Caroline[/MENTION] [MENTION=35705]Phoenall[/MENTION] [MENTION=25033]RoccoR[/MENTION]

I wonder if your allies in the forum will finally condemn your racist calls for ethnic cleansing.
 
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Read what he wrote and see that it is his opinion, and as such is not open to question. You on the other hand spout NAZI HATRED straight from the hate sites, and then deflect when shown to be doing so.

Criticising Israel does not equal "Nazi hatred".

It is attitudes like yours that leads to hated and animosity towards Israel and Israelis.

If you want to know why many people around the world dislike Israel, read your posts and look in the mirror.
The Jews - and the Israelis - do not need to be liked.

Being liked is always nice, and a good thing to have, but it's not necessary.

What IS necessary is survival - form a sustainable, militarily defensible position.

Which is why they do what they do.

Entirely understandable.

And an awesome and marvelous demonstration of self-restraint on their part.
 
P F Tinmore; et al,

First, let's recognize that we agree on this minor point. The UNSCOP, UNPC, the Mandatory, etc, were the representatives having the responsibility of Trusteeship over the territory in question; not an "external interference."

OK, but they had no authority to violate the Palestinians right to self determination.

If they assisted like the LoN Covenant stated that would be perfectly legal. But they did not assist, they interfered which is illegal.

If is not necessarily who they were but what they did.
(COMMENT)

Now let's understand that the UNPC, as the Successor Government, inherits the powers to entrust to a Mandatory, to include the authority to establish "such boundaries as may be fixed by" the Principal Allied Powers which transferred by charter (CHAPTER XII: INTERNATIONAL TRUSTEESHIP SYSTEM) to the General Assembly and by such instructions as the Security Council may consider necessary to issue.

Under General Assembly Resolution 181(II), and the implementation by the UNPC, there was a Partition Plan established ("within such boundaries as may be fixed by" the them") that would allow both the Jewish Agency and the Arab Higher Committee to effectively exercise their rights of self-determination. The Jewish Agency accepted their apportionment and the Arab Higher Committee rejected their apportionment, opting for conflict.

The UN et al, in no way obstructed the Arab Palestinian from exercising their right of self-determination. It was the Arab Palestinian that chose another option.

(EPILOG - THE PALESTINIAN POSITION)





Looking at the issue, strictly from a Arab-Palestinian perspective, one can see that eventually, the Arab-Palestinian altered their path and chose to recognize General Assembly Resolution 181(II) and exercise their right of self-determination.

Are you disputing this history (as recorded by the Arab Palestinian)?

Most Respectfully,
R

The UN et al, in no way obstructed the Arab Palestinian from exercising their right of self-determination.

The Palestinians rejected the partition plan that they had the right to do. Anything after that to implement the plan was illegal.




No as it was an either/or open ended resolution. It did not say that if one party refused the plan was scrapped. What it did say was either party could accept and the plan would be implemented.
The Palestinians have since realised that they have lost far too much by fighting and now want a return to 1948 because they feel strong enough to beat Israel in a war, as long as the odds are stacked in their favour. The problem is UN res 242 that overrules 181 and grants Israel part of Palestine.
 
The Palestinians rejected the partition plan that they had the right to do. Anything after that to implement the plan was illegal.

False. Israel declaring independence was perfectly legal.

Where did they say that state was? A state should be inside their defined territory.



In may 1948 it was, then the arab armies invaded and tried to wipe out the Jews. Since that time the borders of Israel have been liquid, apart from the ones mutually agreed between Egypt and Jordan which are now legally binding.
 
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