I will not Bow!

[Kondor3]

"...Nice dodge. Where are the documents?"

No dodge, Tinny.

The main Arab goals in the 1948 War were to...

1. destroy the infant State of Israel

2. restore all of Old Palestine to Arab control

The Arabs failed in both goals.

Consequently, the Arabs lost the 1948 War.

The State of Israel still exists, larger and vastly stronger than in 1948.

The Arabs of Palestine are jammed into two small and ever-shrinking enclaves.

Documents?

What documents?

Take your nose out of your computer screen and look at the world around you.

Unless, of course, you require a 'link' to the Real World.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

"...one of Israel's biggest lies: The Arabs lost the 1948 war..."

The main Arab goals of the 1948 Arab-Israeli War were to...

1. destroy the infant State of Israel

2. restore Old Palestine to complete Arab control

They failed in both primary objectives.

Look up the definition of 'failure'...

Fail = lose, in the context of a contest.

Failure in war = Losing the war.

Arab failure to achieve their goals = Arabs losing the war.

Q.E.D.

"...I have posted actual documents showing that this is not true..."

You have actual documents to show that...

1. the Arabs destroyed the infant State of Israel in 1948?

2. the Arabs restored all of Old Palestine to Arab control in 1948?

Cool !!!

I must've been living in Alternative Universe all these years.

Looks like I'm finally home and back to good old Reality, eh?

But... wait... what's this?... my News Feed tells me that...

1. Israel is still there; larger, and infinitely more powerful than it was in 1948.

2. the remaining Arabs in Rump Palestine are stacked five-high on each other's shoulders on two tiny slivers of land, the size of a postage stamp.

Ruh-roh, Shaggy...

NOW I'm confused...

And just when I thought I had Reality all sorted out again...

Mebbe them danged A-Rabs lost after all, and are just Funnin' the rest of us hicks...

Bummer...

I don't know about that Rump Palestine part. Unfortunately, there are still miles and miles you can travel in the West Bank where you hear only Arabic. Despite all the youtubes, photos and Wikipedia articles someone can bone up on, there's still no subtitute for actually visiting a place.

 

[P F Tinmore]

"...Nice dodge. Where are the documents?"

No dodge, Tinny.

The main Arab goals in the 1948 War were to...

1. destroy the infant State of Israel

2. restore all of Old Palestine to Arab control

The Arabs failed in both goals.

Consequently, the Arabs lost the 1948 War.

The State of Israel still exists, larger and infinitely stronger than ever.

The Arabs of Palestine are jammed into two small and ever-shrinking enclaves.

Documents?

What documents?

Take your nose out of your computer screen and look at the world around you.

Unless, of course, you require a 'link' to the Real World.

Documents?

What documents?

Indeed, all you have is say so.

No documents.

 

[Kondor3]

What documents?

Indeed, all you have is say so. No documents.

Are you operating under the delusion that the destruction of the infant State of Israel and the restoration of all of Old Palestine to Arab control were NOT the primary goals of the Arabs in 1948?

Are you operating under the delusion that the Arabs succeeded in destroying the infant State of Israel or that they succeeded in restoring all of Old Palestine to Arab control in 1948?

Are you operating under the delusion that failure to achieve your wartime objectives is not the same as having lost a war?

Are you operating under the delusion that Israel does not exist today, and at levels of strength vastly higher than those which it enjoyed in its infancy in 1948?

Are you operating under the delusion that the remaining Arab Palestinians are not herded into two small enclaves (West Bank and Gaza) rather than being in control of all of Old Palestine?

Which of your delusions would you like for me to 'document', Tinny?

 

[P F Tinmore]

What documents?

Indeed, all you have is say so. No documents.

Are you operating under the delusion that the destruction of the infant State of Israel and the restoration of all of Old Palestine to Arab control were NOT the primary goals of the Arabs in 1948?

Are you operating under the delusion that the Arabs succeeded in destroying the infant State of Israel or that they succeeded in restoring all of Old Palestine to Arab control in 1948?

Are you operating under the delusion that failure to achieve your wartime objectives is not the same as having lost a war?

Are you operating under the delusion that Israel does not exist today, and at levels of strength vastly higher than those which it enjoyed in its infancy in 1948?

Are you operating under the delusion that the remaining Arab Palestinians are not herded into two small enclaves (West Bank and Gaza) rather than being in control of all of Old Palestine?

Which of your delusions would you like for me to 'document', Tinny?

Not at all. I am not going to get involved in your deflection.

I am only looking for documents showing where Israel is legitimate.

 

[Kondor3]

Indeed, all you have is say so. No documents.

Are you operating under the delusion that the destruction of the infant State of Israel and the restoration of all of Old Palestine to Arab control were NOT the primary goals of the Arabs in 1948?

Are you operating under the delusion that the Arabs succeeded in destroying the infant State of Israel or that they succeeded in restoring all of Old Palestine to Arab control in 1948?

Are you operating under the delusion that failure to achieve your wartime objectives is not the same as having lost a war?

Are you operating under the delusion that Israel does not exist today, and at levels of strength vastly higher than those which it enjoyed in its infancy in 1948?

Are you operating under the delusion that the remaining Arab Palestinians are not herded into two small enclaves (West Bank and Gaza) rather than being in control of all of Old Palestine?

Which of your delusions would you like for me to 'document', Tinny?

Not at all. I am not going to get involved in your deflection.

I am only looking for documents showing where Israel is legitimate.

That was not what you and I were talking about.

You and I were talking about the Arabs having lost the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.

Don't look now, but you've just had your butt kicked on that one.

Focus, grasshopper... focus...

 

[P F Tinmore]

Are you operating under the delusion that the destruction of the infant State of Israel and the restoration of all of Old Palestine to Arab control were NOT the primary goals of the Arabs in 1948?

Are you operating under the delusion that the Arabs succeeded in destroying the infant State of Israel or that they succeeded in restoring all of Old Palestine to Arab control in 1948?

Are you operating under the delusion that failure to achieve your wartime objectives is not the same as having lost a war?

Are you operating under the delusion that Israel does not exist today, and at levels of strength vastly higher than those which it enjoyed in its infancy in 1948?

Are you operating under the delusion that the remaining Arab Palestinians are not herded into two small enclaves (West Bank and Gaza) rather than being in control of all of Old Palestine?

Which of your delusions would you like for me to 'document', Tinny?

Not at all. I am not going to get involved in your deflection.

I am only looking for documents showing where Israel is legitimate.

That was not what you and I were talking about.

You and I were talking about the Arabs having lost the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.

Don't look now, but you've just had your butt kicked on that one.

Focus, grasshopper... focus...

You have not documented when Israel has won anything.

You are the one dancing around that issue.

 

[Kondor3]

Not at all. I am not going to get involved in your deflection.

I am only looking for documents showing where Israel is legitimate.

That was not what you and I were talking about.

You and I were talking about the Arabs having lost the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.

Don't look now, but you've just had your butt kicked on that one.

Focus, grasshopper... focus...

You have not documented when Israel has won anything.

You are the one dancing around that issue.

The beauty of this is that I didn't have to document a thing pertaining to Israel.

I merely had to demonstrate that the Arabs failed to meet their objectives.

They failed to destroy the infant State of Israel.

They failed to restore all of Old Palestine to Arab control.

Having failed to meet their war goals and objectives, they lost.

This wasn't about proving that Israel won.

This was about proving that the Arabs lost.

And you fell into that trap oh-so-easily.

Gotcha.

Unless, of course, you'd like to regale us with Brave Alternate Reality Tales of how the Arabs destroyed the infant State of Israel and restored all of Old Palestine to Arab control in 1948, after all.

If it sells well here, perhaps you and Harry Turtledove can whip-up an Alternate History novel on the subject, and make some money out of the situation.

 

[P F Tinmore]

That was not what you and I were talking about.

You and I were talking about the Arabs having lost the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.

Don't look now, but you've just had your butt kicked on that one.

Focus, grasshopper... focus...

You have not documented when Israel has won anything.

You are the one dancing around that issue.

The beauty of this is that I didn't have to document a thing pertaining to Israel.

I merely had to demonstrate that the Arabs failed to meet their objectives.

They failed to destroy the infant State of Israel.

They failed to restore all of Old Palestine to Arab control.

Having failed to meet their war goals and objectives, they lost.

This wasn't about proving that Israel won.

This was about proving that the Arabs lost.

And you fell into that trap oh-so-easily.

Gotcha.

Unless, of course, you'd like to regale us with Brave Alternate Reality Tales of how the Arabs destroyed the infant State of Israel and restored all of Old Palestine to Arab control in 1948, after all.

If it sells well here, perhaps you and Harry Turtledove can whip-up an Alternate History novel on the subject, and make some money out of the situation.

You are just blowing smoke.

You cannot document Israel winning anything or Palestinians losing.

Israel occupies Palestine but that is as far as it goes.

 

[toastman]

"...They kept Israel from legally being created and the war is not over."

This sort of infantile and petulant intransigence is why the Palestinians are sitting at the Kiddie Table at the United Nations, and why the Israelis are sitting with the Grownups.

Israel has a lot of political recognition but it has no legal status.

Is this the making things up forum?

You cant just make up your own questions and then act that without an answer , that you are correct.

Israel was lawfully created after cessation of the mandate. Where did you read that was illegal? Why do you make stuff up all the time?

 

[toastman]

You have not documented when Israel has won anything.

You are the one dancing around that issue.

The beauty of this is that I didn't have to document a thing pertaining to Israel.

I merely had to demonstrate that the Arabs failed to meet their objectives.

They failed to destroy the infant State of Israel.

They failed to restore all of Old Palestine to Arab control.

Having failed to meet their war goals and objectives, they lost.

This wasn't about proving that Israel won.

This was about proving that the Arabs lost.

And you fell into that trap oh-so-easily.

Gotcha.

Unless, of course, you'd like to regale us with Brave Alternate Reality Tales of how the Arabs destroyed the infant State of Israel and restored all of Old Palestine to Arab control in 1948, after all.

If it sells well here, perhaps you and Harry Turtledove can whip-up an Alternate History novel on the subject, and make some money out of the situation.

You are just blowing smoke.

You cannot document Israel winning anything or Palestinians losing.

Israel occupies Palestine but that is as far as it goes.

Youre not normal. You make stuff up all the time without backing up your statements.
You hate Israel, and just like the Palestinians you try to de legitimize their existence. Luckily, all of us here already know you have no credibility, acter being wrong about an incredible amount of things. For ***** sake , you didnt even know when Palestine became a country lolol

 

[toastman]

You have not documented when Israel has won anything.

You are the one dancing around that issue.

The beauty of this is that I didn't have to document a thing pertaining to Israel.

I merely had to demonstrate that the Arabs failed to meet their objectives.

They failed to destroy the infant State of Israel.

They failed to restore all of Old Palestine to Arab control.

Having failed to meet their war goals and objectives, they lost.

This wasn't about proving that Israel won.

This was about proving that the Arabs lost.

And you fell into that trap oh-so-easily.

Gotcha.

Unless, of course, you'd like to regale us with Brave Alternate Reality Tales of how the Arabs destroyed the infant State of Israel and restored all of Old Palestine to Arab control in 1948, after all.

If it sells well here, perhaps you and Harry Turtledove can whip-up an Alternate History novel on the subject, and make some money out of the situation.

You are just blowing smoke.

You cannot document Israel winning anything or Palestinians losing.

Israel occupies Palestine but that is as far as it goes.

WhT kind of document are you looking for?

 

[Kondor3]

You have not documented when Israel has won anything.

You are the one dancing around that issue.

The beauty of this is that I didn't have to document a thing pertaining to Israel.

I merely had to demonstrate that the Arabs failed to meet their objectives.

They failed to destroy the infant State of Israel.

They failed to restore all of Old Palestine to Arab control.

Having failed to meet their war goals and objectives, they lost.

This wasn't about proving that Israel won.

This was about proving that the Arabs lost.

And you fell into that trap oh-so-easily.

Gotcha.

Unless, of course, you'd like to regale us with Brave Alternate Reality Tales of how the Arabs destroyed the infant State of Israel and restored all of Old Palestine to Arab control in 1948, after all.

If it sells well here, perhaps you and Harry Turtledove can whip-up an Alternate History novel on the subject, and make some money out of the situation.

You are just blowing smoke.

You cannot document Israel winning anything or Palestinians losing.

Israel occupies Palestine but that is as far as it goes.

The point of contention between you and I is whether or not the Arabs lost the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.

The Arabs failed to meet their two primary war objectives...

1. the destruction of the infant State of Israel

2. the restoration of all of Old Palestine to Arab control.

I do not need to document Israel winning anything.

I do not need to document the Palestinians losing anything.

I merely need to demonstrate that the pan-Arab War effort of 1948 against Israel failed to meet its two primary objectives, and served-up the following two facts as evidence:

1. Israel exists.

2. Israel controls most of Old Palestine, rather than the Arabs.

In the exchange between you and I, here in this thread, within the past hour or two, in which you asserted that the Arabs losing the 1948 War was an Israeli lie, and me challenging that assertion...

I have demonstrated that the Arabs failed to meet their war objectives.

I have demonstrated that failure to meet war objectives constitutes losing a war.

Ergo, I have demonstrated that the Arabs lost the 1948 War.

That was the extent of my mission and effort here, during the course of this sequence.

Mission accomplished.

Twist, squirm and wiggle in the wind, on that hook, all you like.

Sadly - and, strangely, happily, at the same time...

In the context of this sequence between us this morning...

I win...

You lose...

End of sequence.

 

[Kondor3]

"...WhT kind of document are you looking for?"

That's Tinnys Standard-Issue Panic Response, whenever he's backed into a corner, and can't think of any other way out.

In the narrow context of the Arabs losing the 1948 War and his claim that that was an Israeli lie and the counterpointing sequence just concluded... he's just had his ass kicked... and he knows it... I know it... you know it... we all know it... he just can't bring himself to admit it publicly.

 

[toastman]

"...WhT kind of document are you looking for?"

That's Tinnys Standard-Issue Panic Response, whenever he's backed into a corner, and can't think of any other way out.

In the narrow context of the Arabs losing the 1948 War and his claim that that was an Israeli lie and the counterpointing sequence just concluded... he's just had his ass kicked... and he knows it... I know it... you know it... we all know it... he just can't bring himself to admit it publicly.

This is exactly what Ive been saying.

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

I often read tinny's posts are my jaw drops open in astonishment.

 

[aris2chat]

There is an armistice line between Israel and Lebanon

There is an armistice line between Israel and Syria

There is an INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNISED border between Israel and Egypt

There is an INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNISED border between Israel and Jordan

Palestine has refused to take part in peace talks repeatedly

Syria has refused to take part in peace talks repeatedly

That is why the west bank is occupied under International Law and will stay that way until peace has been agreed

You are ducking the question. You only mentioned two of my points and got both of them wrong.

I believe Syria was involved in the Madrid Conference.

correct

 

[Indeependent]

The next time Israel goes to war (hopefully, that will never be), Israel must completley wipe out the enemy to every last man, woman and child.

When the world screams, we will simply show them Tinny's postings that if an enemy doesn't surrender, it has the right to continuously attack.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The beauty of this is that I didn't have to document a thing pertaining to Israel.

I merely had to demonstrate that the Arabs failed to meet their objectives.

They failed to destroy the infant State of Israel.

They failed to restore all of Old Palestine to Arab control.

Having failed to meet their war goals and objectives, they lost.

This wasn't about proving that Israel won.

This was about proving that the Arabs lost.

And you fell into that trap oh-so-easily.

Gotcha.

Unless, of course, you'd like to regale us with Brave Alternate Reality Tales of how the Arabs destroyed the infant State of Israel and restored all of Old Palestine to Arab control in 1948, after all.

If it sells well here, perhaps you and Harry Turtledove can whip-up an Alternate History novel on the subject, and make some money out of the situation.

You are just blowing smoke.

You cannot document Israel winning anything or Palestinians losing.

Israel occupies Palestine but that is as far as it goes.

WhT kind of document are you looking for?

There are several facts about Palestine.

The land of Palestine is inside international borders defined by post war treaties.

The Turkish citizens who normally resided on that land became Palestinian nationals.

Those Palestinians became citizens of Palestine as international legal norms specified and confirmed by the Palestine citizenship law of 1925.

This was de facto status until the Treaty of Lausanne was signed on August 6, 1924 when this status became de jure.

These natives of Palestine had certain rights:

1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237

Where are the documents showing where foreigners acquired any of that land or had the authority to create a state on that land.

 

[Kondor3]

"...Where are the documents showing where foreigners acquired any of that land or had the authority to create a state on that land."

None of that is relevant to whether the Arabs lost the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.