"I thought healthcare was going to be free.

[Pheonixops]

Better they pay for it rather than you and me when they go to they emergency room for a common cold.

They will though.

What single mother of two, working as a waitress, has extra money to pay for coverage?
Might as well continue to use the ER and just pay the fine out of their $5,000 EIC Tax refund

You really don't understand how it works, do you? A single mother of two whose only job is being a waitress will either fall into Medicaid or if she earns enough, she'll get a huge tax credit that will pay for almost all of her health insurance. Yes, it's more welfare, but it makes certain the hospitals and doctors actually get paid, and it will help keep costs down.

How does that help her if she has start suddenly paying another sizable up front and wait for the end of the tax year to come in order to receive it? That's my main problem with it; a mandatory expense that people who may be struggling have to pay. What is the "domino effect" going to be? Will they stop paying other bills in order to pay this mandatory bill? What will this do to the already struggling economy?

 

[Sunshine]

Can your boobs type too or is that just an optical illusion?

How do you think the current system works? People who have no insurance go to the ER and get treated, and if needed, are checked in to a room upstairs. Who do you think ultimately pays under the current system when they don't? You do.

So we were already paying for those who did not have insurance but gov't insisted on shoving through a law that mandates we all have to buy insurance (unless you can't afford it then the rest of us have to subsidize (pay for) those people) but in order to be fair, pre-exsisting conditions get to pay the same rate as non-pre-existing conditions, which means the non-pre-existing condtion people will picking up the slack (pay for) for the pre-existing condition people and oh yeah, while they were at it they gov't also decided what would have to be mandatory coverage and that includes maternity, newborn, pediatric care (including vision and dental) and who the hell cares that a 55 year old single no kids person has to pay for something they do not need and will never, ever use.

Only in a screwed up mind does this fix the problem of someone else having to pay for the other guy.

The purpose of insurance is to spread the risk of a particular peril among a large group of people. The idea is that most will never need it, but all are willing to pay a smaller amount just in case they ever do. As Americans get fatter and sicker this risk sharing concept becomes less viable. When I first went into health care the finance experts were predicting that in 20 years health care would be most of the US GNP. I am not sure they are far off of that prediction. Companies made money keeping the healthy among their insured. That wasn't too hard in the workplace, because in order to work the person had to have some degree of decent health. The concept of insurance to spread the risk is no longer. There is no longer a choice whether one wishes to participate in this or not.

 

[Pheonixops]

Before obiecare my deductable never exceeded 2k per year. Now it's 5k. Go sell your bullshit somewhere else.

plus you have to pay 10-30% AFTER the deductible as well.

Sounds like a lot of you are used to having insurance that comes with a $500 deductible and then pays 100% after that. That is the reason insurance policies cost $6000 per year. I've always had a private policy because I'm self-employed, and I've never had a deductible under $2500 per year per family member. My max out of pocket has normally been $5000 for each member of my family. After my deductible, they pay 80%. Some doctors visits are covered with a copay as are prescriptions. That's a normal policy to me, and I pay about $600 per month for myself an my two boys. Every year I have about $1000 to $2000 in out of pocket medical expenses on top of the insurance.

I find it hilarious how so many of you complain about the cost of insurance but then complain if your plan doesn't cover 100% of all your medical bills. This attitude came about because too many people get their insurance through their employer and they have no ******* idea how much it really costs.

Good point, count me as one of those people! My wife and I pay $250 per month for our health insurance.

 

[Vox]

They will though.

What single mother of two, working as a waitress, has extra money to pay for coverage?
Might as well continue to use the ER and just pay the fine out of their $5,000 EIC Tax refund

You really don't understand how it works, do you? A single mother of two whose only job is being a waitress will either fall into Medicaid or if she earns enough, she'll get a huge tax credit that will pay for almost all of her health insurance. Yes, it's more welfare, but it makes certain the hospitals and doctors actually get paid, and it will help keep costs down.

How does that help her if she has start suddenly paying another sizable up front and wait for the end of the tax year to come in order to receive it? That's my main problem with it; a mandatory expense that people who may be struggling have to pay. What is the "domino effect" going to be? Will they stop paying other bills in order to pay this mandatory bill? What will this do to the already struggling economy?

People who will be screwed the most with this are not going to be the described waitress with two kids - this one is already on medicaid and will remain there, unless she is illegal, but, then, the obamacare does not touch her as well. Her kids, if born here are medicaid-eligible by a default.

So let's talk about the ones who will really be screwed.
Like a single person earning 45, 003 per year. Yeah, you got me right - 3$ over the limit will cut you off ( I have a friend who was cut off the medicaid because her income was FIVE dollars over the limit for that year). Technically it might be one cent over the limit - and you are screwed.
That person will be screwed ROYALLY - there wont be any subsidies and the chunk is going to be EXTREME.

 

[Sunshine]

Before obiecare my deductable never exceeded 2k per year. Now it's 5k. Go sell your bullshit somewhere else.

plus you have to pay 10-30% AFTER the deductible as well.

Sounds like a lot of you are used to having insurance that comes with a $500 deductible and then pays 100% after that. That is the reason insurance policies cost $6000 per year. I've always had a private policy because I'm self-employed, and I've never had a deductible under $2500 per year per family member. My max out of pocket has normally been $5000 for each member of my family. After my deductible, they pay 80%. Some doctors visits are covered with a copay as are prescriptions. That's a normal policy to me, and I pay about $600 per month for myself an my two boys. Every year I have about $1000 to $2000 in out of pocket medical expenses on top of the insurance.

I find it hilarious how so many of you complain about the cost of insurance but then complain if your plan doesn't cover 100% of all your medical bills. This attitude came about because too many people get their insurance through their employer and they have no ******* idea how much it really costs.

Large employers actually underwrite their own plans. That means THEY pay the claims and the insurance company just administers the plan. I can't believe so few people know that.

 

[hortysir]

They will though.

What single mother of two, working as a waitress, has extra money to pay for coverage?
Might as well continue to use the ER and just pay the fine out of their $5,000 EIC Tax refund

You really don't understand how it works, do you? A single mother of two whose only job is being a waitress will either fall into Medicaid or if she earns enough, she'll get a huge tax credit that will pay for almost all of her health insurance. Yes, it's more welfare, but it makes certain the hospitals and doctors actually get paid, and it will help keep costs down.

How does that help her if she has start suddenly paying another sizable up front and wait for the end of the tax year to come in order to receive it? That's my main problem with it; a mandatory expense that people who may be struggling have to pay. What is the "domino effect" going to be? Will they stop paying other bills in order to pay this mandatory bill? What will this do to the already struggling economy?

That's one point the thick-headed around here have been purposefully avoiding.

A Premium is a monthly expense. A monthly expense that had never been figured into anyone's budget. Living paycheck to paycheck can't withstand this hit.
So what now? Do they quit and draw UEC for 2 years and get free healthcare?
Hello, Cloward-Piven

A Tax Credit happens once a year.
True they MAY get a huge EIC tax refund but that still doesn't erase those monthly expenses. And, besides, how many are going to use that tax refund to set aside for the coming year's premiums and NOT go buy the newest iPhone or LCD TV?

Massive deductible? Forget about it.
They'll never afford it..


So can anyone explain the good points of the POS legislation?

 

[francoHFW]

YOUR RW ignorance means the worst, eh....why not look into it instead of repeating fear mongering propaganda....

What do you mean there'll be no subsidies for someone earning 5 bucks over the poverty line...just over 90 per cent that's all...

I was just watching PBS- MANY WALGREENS, cvs, etc PHARMACIES WILL BE LOW COST CLINICS. Do you think Dems are TRYING to become unpopular...brainwashed dingbat DUPES OF THE GREEDY RICH AND Big Health......

 

[francoHFW]

The Obamacare premiums are in. But what about deductibles and ...
Site Search "obamacare premiums are what about deductibles copays" | The CT Mirror - Cached - Similar
Aug 7, 2013 ... You'll also have to pay 40 percent of the cost of non-generic drugs. ... You'd pay
fixed copays for office visits ($30 to see a primary care doctor for an .... deemed to
have met the deductible under the family deductible concept.
Health plan premiums, deductibles, costs and copays
Health plan premiums, deductibles, costs and copays - Cached - Similar
Ask what costs (e.g. co-pays, co-insurance, deductibles) apply towards the ... You
get care outside your health plan's service area, unless it is emergency ... You fill
a prescription for a drug that is not on your health plan's list of approved drugs ...
FAQs About Affordable Care Act Implementation Part XII
www.dol.gov/ebsa/faqs/faq-aca12.html - Cached - Similar
Feb 20, 2013 ... Q1: Who must comply with the deductible limitations under PHS Act ... out-of-
pocket maximum applies with respect to prescription drug ... Are group health
plans and health insurance issuers now required to pay for OTC methods such
as .... of the IOM report, the IOM recognized "co-testing with cytology and ...
Twenty New PPACA FAQs Clarify the Out-of-Pocket Maximum ...
www.towerswatson.com/...care.../Twe...Mandate-and-Numerous-Preventive-Services-Issu... - Cached - Similar
Feb 20, 2013 ... A new series of 20 health care reform Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs), ...
sharing under the new OOP maximum — including deductibles, copays and ... to
all coverage under the plan (e.g., medical, prescription drug and ...
Prescription Drug Copays and Deductibles - State of Illinois
www2.illinois.gov/cms/Employees/.../PrescriptionDrugCopays.aspx - Cached - Similar
FY13 PRESCRIPTION DRUG COPAYS & DEDUCTIBLES Each formulary level
has a different copayment amount as indicated in the chart below: ... for
participants enrolled in a managed care plan during FY2013 will have a $50
deductible; ...
Medicare 2013 costs at a glance | Medicare.gov
www.medicare.gov/your-medicare-costs/costs.../costs-at-glance.html - Cached - Similar
Part A hospital inpatient deductible. You pay: Days 1-60: $1,184 for each ... (You'
ll have to pay the higher premium for twice the number of years you ... You may
need to pay a copayment of no more than $5 for each prescription drug and other
.... For all other services, you also generally pay a copayment for each service ...

 

[peach174]

Better they pay for it rather than you and me when they go to they emergency room for a common cold.

We are paying for it.
Where do you think those subsidies come from?
Taxpayer money.

 

[francoHFW]

When NBC or others try to explain O-CARE, that's automatically brainwashing, according to Fox etc. LOL. Pelosi was right when she meant that we'll figure it all out when it starts...

 

[francoHFW]

Better they pay for it rather than you and me when they go to they emergency room for a common cold.

We are paying for it.
Where do you think those subsidies come from?
Taxpayer money.

NOT, according to the CBO, unless you make over 250k or are a medical device manufacturer. Getting those on welfare to get Medicaid WORKING, GETTING 40 MILLION FREELOADERS PAYING SOMETHING OR TO A DOCTOR OR CLINIC WITH PREVENTIVE CARE, OR ANY AMOUNT OF COST SAVINGS YOU HATER DUPES NEVER hear about etc etc etc. Change the fecking channel, brainwashed MORON. TYVM.

 

[auditor0007]

They will though.

What single mother of two, working as a waitress, has extra money to pay for coverage?
Might as well continue to use the ER and just pay the fine out of their $5,000 EIC Tax refund

You really don't understand how it works, do you? A single mother of two whose only job is being a waitress will either fall into Medicaid or if she earns enough, she'll get a huge tax credit that will pay for almost all of her health insurance. Yes, it's more welfare, but it makes certain the hospitals and doctors actually get paid, and it will help keep costs down.

but it makes certain the hospitals and doctors actually get paid

no not really

the bronze plan pays

only a portion of two doctor office visits

any other office visits come out of pocket

then there is a 5000 dollar deductible

this in addition to monthly insurance payments

doctors will probably get paid less then they do now

because any money the working poor had to pay the

docs will go to insurance payments

Because costs are so out of control, that $5000 deductible is gone after the first day in the hospital if you get sick. Bronze plans are pretty much catastrophic plans that insure the person is covered in case they really get sick or in some type of accident. I will most likely purchase a bronze plan even though I have a pre-existing condition. My yearly out of pocket is still only between $1000 and $2000, so the lower premium is beneficial in my case.

As for hospitals getting paid, they can deal with not getting paid a few thousand if someone can't come up with the deductible. What is killing us is when someone receives treatment that costs $20,000 to $1 million or more and then can't pay.

 

[Geaux4it]

Why not delay the individual mandate to those who want to sit it out for a year. Then let the ones that want to sign up do so

What's so hard about that?

-Geaux

 

[boedicca]

You really don't understand how it works, do you? A single mother of two whose only job is being a waitress will either fall into Medicaid or if she earns enough, she'll get a huge tax credit that will pay for almost all of her health insurance. Yes, it's more welfare, but it makes certain the hospitals and doctors actually get paid, and it will help keep costs down.

but it makes certain the hospitals and doctors actually get paid

no not really

the bronze plan pays

only a portion of two doctor office visits

any other office visits come out of pocket

then there is a 5000 dollar deductible

this in addition to monthly insurance payments

doctors will probably get paid less then they do now

because any money the working poor had to pay the

docs will go to insurance payments

Because costs are so out of control, that $5000 deductible is gone after the first day in the hospital if you get sick. Bronze plans are pretty much catastrophic plans that insure the person is covered in case they really get sick or in some type of accident. I will most likely purchase a bronze plan even though I have a pre-existing condition. My yearly out of pocket is still only between $1000 and $2000, so the lower premium is beneficial in my case.

As for hospitals getting paid, they can deal with not getting paid a few thousand if someone can't come up with the deductible. What is killing us is when someone receives treatment that costs $20,000 to $1 million or more and then can't pay.

What really kills hospitals is people showing up for free care in the Emergency Room...and ObamaCare is going to make this worse due to doctors retiring early to avoid being slaves to the state.

 

[Vox]

Better they pay for it rather than you and me when they go to they emergency room for a common cold.

We are paying for it.
Where do you think those subsidies come from?
Taxpayer money.

NOT, according to the CBO, unless you make over 250k or are a medical device manufacturer. Getting those on welfare to get Medicaid WORKING, GETTING 40 MILLION FREELOADERS PAYING SOMETHING OR TO A DOCTOR OR CLINIC WITH PREVENTIVE CARE, OR ANY AMOUNT OF COST SAVINGS YOU HATER DUPES NEVER hear about etc etc etc. Change the fecking channel, brainwashed MORON. TYVM.

don't lie. obamacare tax starts at 200K, not 250K.

 

[Vox]

What really kills hospitals is people showing up for free care in the Emergency Room...and ObamaCare is going to make this worse due to doctors retiring early to avoid being slaves to the state.

as a matter of fact, not so much. Hospitals make money exclusively in the OR and ER.
Everything else is losing money for the hospital.

If you are talking about shitload of unnecessary work - yes, God forbid to work in the major teaching hospital ER.

 

[Vox]

You really don't understand how it works, do you? A single mother of two whose only job is being a waitress will either fall into Medicaid or if she earns enough, she'll get a huge tax credit that will pay for almost all of her health insurance. Yes, it's more welfare, but it makes certain the hospitals and doctors actually get paid, and it will help keep costs down.

but it makes certain the hospitals and doctors actually get paid

no not really

the bronze plan pays

only a portion of two doctor office visits

any other office visits come out of pocket

then there is a 5000 dollar deductible

this in addition to monthly insurance payments

doctors will probably get paid less then they do now

because any money the working poor had to pay the

docs will go to insurance payments

Because costs are so out of control, that $5000 deductible is gone after the first day in the hospital if you get sick. Bronze plans are pretty much catastrophic plans that insure the person is covered in case they really get sick or in some type of accident. I will most likely purchase a bronze plan even though I have a pre-existing condition. My yearly out of pocket is still only between $1000 and $2000, so the lower premium is beneficial in my case.

As for hospitals getting paid, they can deal with not getting paid a few thousand if someone can't come up with the deductible. What is killing us is when someone receives treatment that costs $20,000 to $1 million or more and then can't pay.

But if you have 10-30 percent of that to pay after deductible - it is going to be a huge amount. and that is in EVERY PLAN THROUGH THE EXCHANGE
And for someone making 45,001 per year getting hit by cancer treatment with even 10% of co-pay after deductible is going to be as catastrophic as it is NOW.
I t is basically no different than now if someone is getting sich with EXPENSIVE disease - Pulmonary HTN, for example.
It is not going to be sustainable even for someone making 300K per year, as people tend to have mortgages, kids in school, retirement accounts and paying even 10% from a million dollar treatment is going to bankrupt you.

 

[francoHFW]

There's a 6k cap on annual patient spending, dingbat. Typical loudmouth Pub dupe. CLUELESS.

 

[Geaux4it]

There's a 6k cap on annual patient spending, dingbat. Typical loudmouth Pub dupe. CLUELESS.

Mr. Duper Spotter- I could be in my death bed under current plan and never come close to 6K out of pocket

-Geaux

 

[francoHFW]

159- Not guaranteed until O-cARE... AND YOU GET TO KEEP THAT...unless your company decides it wants a change, of course.