I think we all agree

[Redfish]

Go burn a flag and spit on a soldier.
You'll feel better

screw yourself. You have no idea who I am or what I believe. I am tired to seeing our kids killed and maimed for nothing, and when the interests of this country were not at risk. Until we learn the lesson of Viet Nam the useless deaths will continue.

We need to mind our own business and let the rest of the world mind theirs.

Why dont you enlist, asswipe

Why do you think I am so adamant about Viet Nam?

 

[blackhawk]

If you get directly involved you risk getting stuck in a quagmire if you don't you risk the rise of something like the axis powers it's almost damned if you do damned if you don't.

 

[Redfish]

But I do want to bring up Rwanda. But do it so differently. You can and should go in and stop a genocide. We cannot look away. We cannot NOT take action.

But do it. Do it fast and quick. To hell with the United Nations. They are useless. And exact justice on the spot.

We thought we were going to prevent genocide in Viet Nam and Kosovo. Your motives are pure and just and admirable, but we cannot realistically right all the wrongs in the world.

 

[Dot Com]

its crony capitalism. Politicians rubber stamp voluntary conflicts, def contractors get filthier rich, & donate to Politician's campaign fund (especially true w/ rw chickenhawks ):

 

[Redfish]

If you get directly involved you risk getting stuck in a quagmire if you don't you risk the rise of something like the axis powers it's almost damned if you do damned if you don't.

Peace through stength works. Walk softly and carry a big stick works. The Japanese found out what a sleeping tiger can do. We are not the world's police force.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The US should not try to police the world and should not engage in nation building. We should not enter foreign conflicts unless the USA or its people have been physically attacked.

Comments-------------------

Bush should have had you as a counselor before invading Iraq.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Go burn a flag and spit on a soldier.
You'll feel better

America's fighting men and women tell you to fuck off, Warrior102.

 

[Redfish]

its crony capitalism. Politicians rubber stamp voluntary conflicts, def contractors get filthier rich, & donate to Politician's campaign fund (especially true w/ rw chickenhawks ):

true to a point. Are you saying that Kennedy and Johnson contrived the viet nam war to enrich the defence industry?

 

[tinydancer]

I'll give myself up. I was thrilled when we all went into Afghanistan. I yes a conservative have been a womans right's activist in the ME for a long time and at war on the net with the Taliban since the 90's.

I thought we could rebuild. I thought we could change things. I believed.

Oh I have been so sadly mistaken. And my heart is broken that we lost so many good young men and women fighting such a losing battle.

All for a dream that in the end will never come true.

Bravo.

Thanks.

.

My heart really hurts on this. I've not a problem in my life on admitting I was wrong, but to admit abject defeat has been a bit of a life changing event for me. I was hating the Taliban when other people thought they were a "body wrap" and not Bhutto's mercenaries.

20 years. Nothing has changed. All our babies blood for naught. It hurts.

 

[Redfish]

The US should not try to police the world and should not engage in nation building. We should not enter foreign conflicts unless the USA or its people have been physically attacked.

Comments-------------------

Bush should have had you as a counselor before invading Iraq.

Bush did not invade Iraq on his own, congress (both parties) authorized and funded that stupid fiasco.

If asked, I would have told them to use covert action to hit Saddam and his top cronies, a ground war was a foolish waste of lives and money.

 

[Redfish]

I'll give myself up. I was thrilled when we all went into Afghanistan. I yes a conservative have been a womans right's activist in the ME for a long time and at war on the net with the Taliban since the 90's.

I thought we could rebuild. I thought we could change things. I believed.

Oh I have been so sadly mistaken. And my heart is broken that we lost so many good young men and women fighting such a losing battle.

All for a dream that in the end will never come true.

Bravo.

Thanks.

.

My heart really hurts on this. I've not a problem in my life on admitting I was wrong, but to admit abject defeat has been a bit of a life changing event for me. I was hating the Taliban when other people thought they were a "body wrap" and not Bhutto's mercenaries.

20 years. Nothing has changed. All our babies blood for naught. It hurts.[/QUOTE]






Its only for naught if we fail to learn from it.

 

[Peach]

Uhhhhhh, can you say Pearl Harbor? We did not start that shit, but we finished it---as we should have.

How many died in WWII? And after, under Soviet & Chinese totalitarianism? Fascism & Communism are two sides of the same coin.

where is it written that the USA should sacrifice its young people to try to rid the world of bad people?

I am not advocating pacifism, just stop trying to force the world to live as we live and believe what we believe.

If we are attacked, hit back and keep hitting until the attackers are dead. But if we or our allies are not attacked, stay the hell out of it.

Viet Nam posed no danger to the USA, What we were trying to stop happened anyway---after we lost 58.000 americans.

My father served in Vietnam, later said he wondered why were there.* There was a treaty, we were trying to fulfill the obligations therein. All isolationism creates is vacuums enemies of liberty fill.

*Yes, from WWII at age 17 until Vietnam at age 42, and Navy until he was 46.

 

[tinydancer]

its crony capitalism. Politicians rubber stamp voluntary conflicts, def contractors get filthier rich, & donate to Politician's campaign fund (especially true w/ rw chickenhawks ):

true to a point. Are you saying that Kennedy and Johnson contrived the viet nam war to enrich the defence industry?

I never thought JFK but Johnson? Mr. Brown and Roots. Ladybird holding Haliburton and hiring Cheney.

I love love American history.

 

[Mac1958]

I'll give myself up. I was thrilled when we all went into Afghanistan. I yes a conservative have been a womans right's activist in the ME for a long time and at war on the net with the Taliban since the 90's.

I thought we could rebuild. I thought we could change things. I believed.

Oh I have been so sadly mistaken. And my heart is broken that we lost so many good young men and women fighting such a losing battle.

All for a dream that in the end will never come true.

Bravo.

Thanks.

.

My heart really hurts on this. I've not a problem in my life on admitting I was wrong, but to admit abject defeat has been a bit of a life changing event for me. I was hating the Taliban when other people thought they were a "body wrap" and not Bhutto's mercenaries.

20 years. Nothing has changed. All our babies blood for naught. It hurts.

When the towers came down, I wanted SO BAD to just blow the SHIT out of SOMETHING. To turn the entire fucking Middle East into a fucking parking lot. But for some reason it all changed when I saw the size of the force going into Afghanistan. I knew somehow that it was wrong. Iraq was a different story, I was against that from the beginning.

You're definitely not alone - we were all so shocked and angry and fucking frustrated that we just wanted to DO SOMETHING. I just hope we've learned from our mistakes.

.

 

[Redfish]

How many died in WWII? And after, under Soviet & Chinese totalitarianism? Fascism & Communism are two sides of the same coin.

where is it written that the USA should sacrifice its young people to try to rid the world of bad people?

I am not advocating pacifism, just stop trying to force the world to live as we live and believe what we believe.

If we are attacked, hit back and keep hitting until the attackers are dead. But if we or our allies are not attacked, stay the hell out of it.

Viet Nam posed no danger to the USA, What we were trying to stop happened anyway---after we lost 58.000 americans.

My father served in Vietnam, later said he wondered why were there.* There was a treaty, we were trying to fulfill the obligations therein. All isolationism creates is vacuums enemies of liberty fill.

*Yes, from WWII at age 17 until Vietnam at age 42, and Navy until he was 46.

Sounds like he and I have similar history and are about the same age. Viet Nam was a terrible waste of american lives and money. We did not stop "the spread of communism" we accomplished nothing.

If we refuse to learn from it, we are doomed to repeat it.

 

[Peach]

I'll give myself up. I was thrilled when we all went into Afghanistan. I yes a conservative have been a womans right's activist in the ME for a long time and at war on the net with the Taliban since the 90's.

I thought we could rebuild. I thought we could change things. I believed.

Oh I have been so sadly mistaken. And my heart is broken that we lost so many good young men and women fighting such a losing battle.

All for a dream that in the end will never come true.

Bravo.

Thanks.

.

That dream may still come true; the majority of Afghanis do not support al Qaeda. We can keep our influence in quietly, and back those who are not extremists. Setting up a functional representative government in Iraq will be much more difficult. (Iraq is modernized, by Saddam with US support, yet knows nothing but dictators, since the beginning. Afghanistan was more rural, warlords AND individual clans. The Soviets backed out, setting the stage for Muslim radicals.)

 

[tinydancer]

Bravo.

Thanks.

.

My heart really hurts on this. I've not a problem in my life on admitting I was wrong, but to admit abject defeat has been a bit of a life changing event for me. I was hating the Taliban when other people thought they were a "body wrap" and not Bhutto's mercenaries.

20 years. Nothing has changed. All our babies blood for naught. It hurts.[/QUOTE]






Its only for naught if we fail to learn from it.

Truth out. And I think we should. We have to discuss this. Lay it on the line. In both our nations because here we are with NATO pulling our chains in the Ukraine and we should not be involved.

Aye carumba. Don't get me going. I have to plant and these guys were hard to pull off up here my tomatillos. You have to remember I only stopped shovelling snow a couple of weeks ago. My weather is biblical. I take comfort in Revelations. Oh yeah the seas are rising?

 

[blackhawk]

If you get directly involved you risk getting stuck in a quagmire if you don't you risk the rise of something like the axis powers it's almost damned if you do damned if you don't.

Peace through stength works. Walk softly and carry a big stick works. The Japanese found out what a sleeping tiger can do. We are not the world's police force.

Just as I said there is a risk with either one you choose one and live with the consequences.

 

[Redfish]

Bravo.

Thanks.

.

My heart really hurts on this. I've not a problem in my life on admitting I was wrong, but to admit abject defeat has been a bit of a life changing event for me. I was hating the Taliban when other people thought they were a "body wrap" and not Bhutto's mercenaries.

20 years. Nothing has changed. All our babies blood for naught. It hurts.

When the towers came down, I wanted SO BAD to just blow the SHIT out of SOMETHING. To turn the entire fucking Middle East into a fucking parking lot. But for some reason it all changed when I saw the size of the force going into Afghanistan. I knew somehow that it was wrong. Iraq was a different story, I was against that from the beginning.

You're definitely not alone - we were all so shocked and angry and fucking frustrated that we just wanted to DO SOMETHING. I just hope we've learned from our mistakes.

.

We are in the same boat on this. We all wanted to hit back. We were all angry and hurt. The hit on OBL was the right approach, not a stupid ground war that we could not win. We knew who did it, we could have hit them one by one and very publicly, it would have been effective and would have saved innocent lives on both sides.

But we are too civilized for covert hits, right? we prefer the flaming deaths of thousands to surgical strikes on the individuals responsible.

 

[Derideo_Te]

The US should not try to police the world and should not engage in nation building. We should not enter foreign conflicts unless the USA or its people have been physically attacked.

Comments-------------------

You and I seldom agree but we do on this point.

US military intervention should always be the LAST resort. We don't even need boots on the ground anymore. We can monitor pretty much everywhere and strike with impunity with almost pinpoint accuracy.

Technology has replaced the need for troops. Let's use that instead of risking the lives and limbs of our finest in mindless interventions.