I Think I Will Scream

[The Derp]

WE don't have the same thing happening.

Yes we fucking do! Nazis are literally marching through the streets, carrying torches, waving swastikas, Seig Heil-ing, and murdering people. How is it not the same thing? Because it's 2017 and not 1930??? That's your fucking answer? Christ...

e have very few sickos making a lot of noise. Fuck them, don't compare them to Hitler. Thats way too overdramatic

The Nazis were a very few sickos too, and then apathy and accomodation got them political power, and they turned that into genocide. How is that any different than what's happening here? If you could have stopped the Nazis before they became political powers, would you? Because it doesn't sound like you would to me.

 

[PredFan]

What is happening in America right now is exactly what happened in 1930s Germany. Next, all white people will have to wear a badge and be restricted in their movements and associations.

 

[The Derp]

What is happening in America right now is exactly what happened in 1930s Germany. Next, all white people will have to wear a badge and be restricted in their movements and associations.

Fascists and Nazis should be publicly identified, mocked, ridiculed, and if necessary, attacked. Everyone likes to pretend they'd be all up in the Nazis' business in 1930, but here we have the same thing happening and suddenly it's wanting to "protect free speech of those opposed to free speech". SAD!

 

[PredFan]

What is happening in America right now is exactly what happened in 1930s Germany. Next, all white people will have to wear a badge and be restricted in their movements and associations.

Fascists and Nazis should be publicly identified, mocked, ridiculed, and if necessary, attacked. Everyone likes to pretend they'd be all up in the Nazis' business in 1930, but here we have the same thing happening and suddenly it's wanting to "protect free speech of those opposed to free speech". SAD!

Every time you post, you confirm your screen name.

 

[Rambunctious]

Kate rocks, that guy was being a douche and talking over her non-stop. Trump silences reporters all the time during interviews... don't be a hypocrite

I'm sure CNN is very proud of her obvious professionalism. She's a snowflake too quick to anger....

 

[Conservative65]

What's wrong with you people.... Nazis, the KKK and white supremacist groups are marching down our streets and calling for the banishment of Jews and blacks. And you are yawning and annoyed because it makes your President look bad when he waters down the seriousness of this problem? Y'all need to do some serious self reflection

Muslims have called for the extermination of the Jews. Why do you sympathize with them?

I don't sympathize with anybody that calls for the elimination of the Jews. Why are you putting words in my mouth?

You referenced the KKK, Nazis, and white supremacists related to "marching down the streets and calling for the banishment of Jews". You said nothing about the Muslims that do the very same thing. Taking a note from your fellow lefty's playbook, silence means you consent to what those Muslims do. I don't have to put words in your mouth. Your lack of words is all I need to know your sympathize with the Muslim desire to eliminate the Jews.

 

[Slyhunter]

Newsflash... its not the 1930s!!!

Nothing is like the 1930's, just like nothing is like the 2010's. I don't understand what you're waiting for? Everyone always says that if they could travel back in time and kill Hitler to prevent the Holocaust, they would. So now we have the same kind of shit happening and I'm just sitting here wondering what the fuck you're waiting for to happen? Nazis declared open war on Charlottesville when they ran over and murdered people. Clearly it was an act of terrorism. We've responded to foreign terrorists with brute force anytime one of them attacks us. So why can't we do the same to Nazis, who we already fought once and defeated?

Assholes are always going to exist you can't kill them and you go down a slippery slope trying to silence all of them. To be a smart opposition you need to outwit them and minimize them, not stoop to their level and fuel the fight.

So don't silence Nazis, is your position. ::face palm::

The fight has already started! What do you think it was when the Nazi ran over those people last weekend? That was an act of terrorism. An act of war. So if we're at war, let's fucking fight. Shutting down their speech is nice. That's being nice.

1 NAZI, 1 act of terror, yet you ignore the Muslims.

 

[usmbguest5318]

The media is frothing themselves over this and no one cares.

Apparently the OP-er does given the voluminous post (by USMB standards) s/he wrote about it. People rarely have that much to say about things over which they are indifferent.

 

[rightwinger]

Obama would have said the Antifa girl could have been his illegitimate daughter.

What a horrible thing to say

 

[rightwinger]

What is happening in America right now is exactly what happened in 1930s Germany. Next, all white people will have to wear a badge and be restricted in their movements and associations.

Why don't they just wear.....make America great hats?

 

[emilynghiem]

The media is frothing themselves over this and no one cares.

Dear LordBrownTrout the people who do care about this are using it as therapy. These protests and responses to media stories are all PROJECTIONS of people's inner fears and biases that they trigger.

So yes it DOES matter: to the people who need to process their own fear, guilt, stress and distrust of one group or another "as the cause of the problems."

For everyone suffering anxiety, stress or ILL WILL over these things,
we should support them in RESOLVING this so we can have peace and work toward justice RATIONALLY. the human grief process is a necessary and natural step toward interacting as mature members of society. We need to realize our full humanity. That is what this is all about.

Whether people are angry or reeling over terrorist attacks in Europe at this time, or they just lost a loved one close to them, that pain is real to them.

Why can't we grow up and realize everyone is going to go through this.
And quit freaking out every time it hits. Of course we are going to react
to whatever pushes our buttons. We are human, and that's what humans do!

 

[emilynghiem]

. . . . if I turn on the TV one more time and hear another minute of wall-to-wall nonstop 24/7 discussion of the most HEINOUS event of the 21st Century! DAYS after the fact . . . .

That President Trump blamed all sides in the violence in Charlottesville.

DAYS LATER, this is still the Number 1 News Story of the World? That Trump didn't denounce Nazism as the FIRST thing he said? Oh wait, he DID. But in doing so, he tried to include ALL forms of hatred and violence and made a call for more peace and unity in the country.

THAT BASTARD.

HE IS NO LEADER OF OURS.

It just amazes me the number of people even on Fox News calling this a moral outrage, complaining about the incessant coverage all the while never stopping talking about it, that all of his people on his manufacturing council for jobs walked out, and that he is now ruined with both his base and the voters. Because he had to SPELL OUT by name in one massive Pavlovian Catharsis that Nazi's aren't the nicest people, and blame them as the only and SOLE reason why a city turned into a mob.

But the city turned into a mob because once again, the police backed off and LET IT HAPPEN. They stood by and WATCHED.

People left and right all across the country and around the world can't trip over their own feet fast enough now in one big ME TOO to make sure they all barf out in genuflection how much they hate Nazis.

Me too!!! Hack! Spit! Ptooey!

Snifff. You can smell the Political Correction in the air, and the FEAR of being DENOUNCED as NOT being politically correct!

THERE'S ONE OVER THERE, BOB! ONE OF THOSE NON-PC PEOPLE! QUICK! GRAB HIM! TIME TO BURN HIM AT THE STAKE! THAT'LL FIX HIM!

But wait: isn't hatred what the Nazis are about? So you HATE the Nazis for HATING?

There is something seriously wrong with the world.

The Nazi's are FULLY ENTITLED to their opinions and views no matter what they are. There are no "conditions" of morality in the Constitution! If you don't agree with them, CHANGE THE FUCKING CHANNEL YOU GOD DAMNED SNOWFLAKE! There is more outrage over this small group of stupid zealot demonstrators than there is for Imams preaching Death to America in mosques all across our country!

The sad fact is that in all of this, Donald Trump is the only one who got it right. The Nazi's HAD A PERMIT to demonstrate and hold a rally there in Charlottesville, the Antifas did not. What did Charlottesville expect they would do--- ---maybe hand out flowers and Bibles? The problem with BOTH they AND the Antifas is that they both use hatred and violence as the tools to their own ends.

The irony is that the Antifas are protesting against fascism, in doing so in the way they do, they actually use the same methods as the very people they are protesting! Fascism!

Why not think of the Nazis and the Antifas both as groups of Love:

The Nazis would love a nation devoid of Blacks, Jews and Christians where only Whites dominate. They are just pissed because that world doesn't exist HERE. Maybe they need to go find an island somewhere.

And the Antifas would love a world free of other people telling you how to live your life and who can be here, by going around telling others how THEY should live and whether they can be here. And beat you with a bat if you don't comply.

And the world looks on and laughs at the madness as America spins and implodes.

Dear toobfreak I am appalled that people would twist around Trump's words about violence coming from all sides. That doesn't mean blaming the victims.

I think you made that point clear that what compromised safety was the counter-protesters not having permits and staying SEPARATED from their targets.

However, this should still be clarified that the Antifa were not the ones driving the car who killed Heyer, nor was she part of Antifa. That's where people are getting offended thinking she is being blamed for the violence by others.

If we clarify this point, yes, we can blame Antifa for inciting deadly violence.
And some states have laws where if you are committing a crime, then if anyone gets killed in the commission or policing of that crime, then you can get a felony murder charge. This case may be too removed to prove that degree of fault.

In the high profile case of the mob of people who went "wilding" in central park, where a jogger got raped sodomized left for dead, the 5 young men falsely convicted and wrongfully imprisoned were later exonerated and never charged with participating in wild vandalism and riot behavior. but indirectly, that wild criminal rioting created such unsafe conditions it allowed that woman to get raped with no means of stopping it, or prosecuting the real rapist in time afterwards, because of the obfuscation and obstruction by these other vandals and the botched prosecution confused because of these participants.

Indirectly these other "mobsters" are to blame, but by law, the actual perpetrator is solely responsible for the death of this innocent bystander.

It is not a crime to attend a counter-protest. She was not part of either the permitted protesters, nor the Antifa who plotted violent attacks, nor any other such group that did.

Had she been a member of one of these groups, we would just take a shortcut and blame that group and be done with this.

But because she was acting independently, and it was the unpoliced mob behavior around her that was unsafe and allowed attacks to go uncontrolled
THAT'S why the "blame" is on all sides.

Nobody met with police to plan and agree in advance how to keep the crowds separated. So out of ignorance or negligence, the protesters counter-protesters and police who didn't work this out in advance, all contributed to unsafe conditions.

The driver alone, who was too mentally imbalanced to drive or be unsupervised, is to blame for her actual death. But the unsafe conditions around her that set this protest up to fail CONTRIBUTED. Just like the mob that was wilding in New York is partially to blame for the rape of the Central Park Jogger Trisha Meili and botched prosecution afterwards, while LEGALLY only the actual rapist can be convicted for that. The crowd creating the riot were like the accomplices, whether intended or not, so the rioters and vandals carry part of the blame though they cannot be convicted for the actual rape.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

The media is frothing themselves over this and no one cares.

Dear LordBrownTrout the people who do care about this are using it as therapy. These protests and responses to media stories are all PROJECTIONS of people's inner fears and biases that they trigger.

So yes it DOES matter: to the people who need to process their own fear, guilt, stress and distrust of one group or another "as the cause of the problems."

For everyone suffering anxiety, stress or ILL WILL over these things,
we should support them in RESOLVING this so we can have peace and work toward justice RATIONALLY. the human grief process is a necessary and natural step toward interacting as mature members of society. We need to realize our full humanity. That is what this is all about.

Whether people are angry or reeling over terrorist attacks in Europe at this time, or they just lost a loved one close to them, that pain is real to them.

Why can't we grow up and realize everyone is going to go through this.
And quit freaking out every time it hits. Of course we are going to react
to whatever pushes our buttons. We are human, and that's what humans do!

I have no words for a willing media who is all to eager to sow discord and division in this country. Damn them to hell.

 

[Slade3200]

The shutting down of speech is fascism, even if the speech you are trying to shut down is fascist. You are just practicing "justified" fascism

Shutting down fascism is fascism? We used to call that patriotism. You're twisting yourself in pretzel logic in order to appear reasonable. But for whom? For yourself. So this isn't about fascism or free speech, this is you wanting to be a nice person and letting fascists be fascists. Well, nice people make the best Nazis. What's it gonna take before you finally realize this shit is serious? Nazis marching through the streets, carrying torches, killing people? Too late. Shit's already happening, bro.

We have laws and if people break the laws then they get arrested. If you don't like fascist and you resort to fascism to silence them then it makes you no better than them.

 

[Slade3200]

WE don't have the same thing happening.

Yes we fucking do! Nazis are literally marching through the streets, carrying torches, waving swastikas, Seig Heil-ing, and murdering people. How is it not the same thing? Because it's 2017 and not 1930??? That's your fucking answer? Christ...

e have very few sickos making a lot of noise. Fuck them, don't compare them to Hitler. Thats way too overdramatic

The Nazis were a very few sickos too, and then apathy and accomodation got them political power, and they turned that into genocide. How is that any different than what's happening here? If you could have stopped the Nazis before they became political powers, would you? Because it doesn't sound like you would to me.

A couple hundred Nazis marching down the street is completely different from the 1930's when there was a world superpower government being run by a Nazi dictator. Did I really need to spell that out for you?

 

[Slade3200]

What's wrong with you people.... Nazis, the KKK and white supremacist groups are marching down our streets and calling for the banishment of Jews and blacks. And you are yawning and annoyed because it makes your President look bad when he waters down the seriousness of this problem? Y'all need to do some serious self reflection

Muslims have called for the extermination of the Jews. Why do you sympathize with them?

I don't sympathize with anybody that calls for the elimination of the Jews. Why are you putting words in my mouth?

You referenced the KKK, Nazis, and white supremacists related to "marching down the streets and calling for the banishment of Jews". You said nothing about the Muslims that do the very same thing. Taking a note from your fellow lefty's playbook, silence means you consent to what those Muslims do. I don't have to put words in your mouth. Your lack of words is all I need to know your sympathize with the Muslim desire to eliminate the Jews.

That is just about the dumbest thing I've heard today... Grow up

 

[toobfreak]

It is not a crime to attend a counter-protest..

That's all fine and good and of course it's not a crime, it is just a risky place to be. Going to such a highly charged event you take on some risk and at the very least, if she were my daughter, I would have wanted her accompanied by some friends to look out for her safety and use good judgement. I know I wouldn't go; these days, you are taking on some risk even going to the mall, attending a large sporting event or even riding public transportation. It is just sad that of all the crazy and violent people at that event, she was the one who ended up dead.

 

[emilynghiem]

The media is frothing themselves over this and no one cares.

Dear LordBrownTrout the people who do care about this are using it as therapy. These protests and responses to media stories are all PROJECTIONS of people's inner fears and biases that they trigger.

So yes it DOES matter: to the people who need to process their own fear, guilt, stress and distrust of one group or another "as the cause of the problems."

For everyone suffering anxiety, stress or ILL WILL over these things,
we should support them in RESOLVING this so we can have peace and work toward justice RATIONALLY. the human grief process is a necessary and natural step toward interacting as mature members of society. We need to realize our full humanity. That is what this is all about.

Whether people are angry or reeling over terrorist attacks in Europe at this time, or they just lost a loved one close to them, that pain is real to them.

Why can't we grow up and realize everyone is going to go through this.
And quit freaking out every time it hits. Of course we are going to react
to whatever pushes our buttons. We are human, and that's what humans do!

I have no words for a willing media who is all to eager to sow discord and division in this country. Damn them to hell.

Yes and No LordBrownTrout
First we use free speech and press to PETITION to correct the inciteful or wrongful abuse of hate speech for division and misinformation.
We don't just condemn and do nothing, that isn't going to change or correct anything.

IN Constitutional terms, we petition to redress grievances, we go through democratic due process to
accuse someone of charges and seek corrections or restitution/penalty we agree by law is fitting to the wrongs once these are confirmed and convicted by law.
We address the wrongs or crimes committed, and seek some form of justice, preferably restorative which can heal and preserve the relationship.
Instead of leaving wounds unattended to where they fester or become infected with gangrene. We don't want to allow sickness to spread,
wrongs to go uncorrected where misinformation or ill will is replicated created an epidemic.

IN Christian terms, trespasses and rebukes are supposed to addressed "one on one" in person first
between the person wronged and the person accused; then if that doesn't resolve it, two or three witnesses
establish the truth, or the problem is brought before the church to witness and support the parties in resolving the conflict.
The point is to value the relationship enough to address and right the wrong in the spirit of truth and justice in order to restore peace.

Truth, Justice and Peace. That's the trinity in a nutshell.
Justice isn't established by just cursing each other with condemnation.
We still have responsibility to address each wrong and make good where there was ill will,
or else the bad multiplies in a vicious cycle. Instead we want the good will restored and multiplied.
That's how we turn around injustice into justice, ill will into good will, and conflicts into peace.

We pursue it from both sides coming together to respect mutual truth so it sets us free from error, injustice and strife.
This both a Biblical teaching and natural laws governing the democratic process between people and social relations.

 

[emilynghiem]

What do you call it when ANTIFA shuts down the speech of alt right speakers at college campuses?

Anti-fascism. There is no other way to end fascism than by shutting it down completely. Fascism is not free speech, so we need to stop making accomodations for people who think it is.

The shutting down of speech is what?

The shutting down of Nazi speech is necessary and vital to preserving our freedoms. Because Nazis want to take your freedoms away. That's why they're Nazis. Antifa wants to take away fascists' speech, and that's a bad thing why? You know fascist speech is speech of incitement. So what the fuck, dude?

You're dodging. The shutting down of speech is fascism, even if the speech you are trying to shut down is fascist. You are just practicing "justified" fascism

Well said Slade3200 this is hard to talk about without sounding like enabling one side or the other. You do as good a job as anyone can,
and we are all going to offend the person coming from the other side. When we accept this imperfection, and understand our inability to
communicate perfectly doesn't mean we side with the wrongdoing of one side or the other, at least we can see we are in the same boat together.

The Derp We don't have to be emotionally charged "in order to take this seriously"
We can be united and not be anger and scary and threatening punishment to show we are serious.

By uniting, by agreeing we aren't going to tolerate or excuse "lawbreaking" on either side, or any form
of negligence, either passively or actively "conspiring to allow civil rights to get violated"
we can AVOID having to threaten use of force and be ugly about it.

Enforcing the law is a noble thing, it doesn't have to come with threats of physical punishment or JUDGING and CRITICIZING people.
Teaching the difference between lawful and unlawful behavior IS enough to start dismantling the fear that terrorists prey on.
So this peaceful approach DOES defuse and disempower the hate groups who use fear and hate like gasoline on fire.
So DON'T TAKE THEIR BAIT.
DON'T RESPOND WITH FEAR, AND HATE AND DIVIDE AND ATTACK BACK.
THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT. DON'T EMPOWER AND EMBOLDEN THEM TO CHALLENGE AUTHORITY

Love speaks as powerfully if not more.
We can enforce the same laws more effectively IN UNITY
with love of justice rather than fear of injustice.

I agree with you we MUST stand up and put down lawless violence and planned malicious attacks.
We must unite to get spiritual healing therapy to the mentally ill who otherwise get
Baited and lured into Lone Wolf attacks from websites.

We can actually prevent a lot more ills with the same outreach
by uniting and not dividing over which case or side we think is more dangerous.

Let's address them all.

In order to come out in the open with all our fears and anger,
WE NEED UNFETTERED FREE SPEECH. We need to feel safe sharing
our outrage and disgust, our distrust of this person or that group, and
not feel THREATENED or condemned if that's our experience that makes us feel that way.

Had we more open channels for people from both Antifa and White Supremacist/NeoNazi
groups to oppose removing statues and hear what the spirit of the South means to people,
we might learn what it really means to embrace diversity and cultural differences.
Then find solutions that can accommodate people without conflict and without violence from fearful hostility.

We need to learn to manage diversity and our strong feelings we still carry as a nation
from the genocides and slavery from the past. Dialogue and free speech is a necessary
vehicle for healing; all the successful therapies use groups sharing or expression of emotions
and personal experiences in anger management, and recovery from abuse or addictions.

We just have to find safe methods and process for free speech and petitioning to be conducted safely
where it respects the laws and due process so there is no need for violence because there is no oppression to overthrow.

So I hear what you are saying, not to condone any abuse of free speech to plan and plot
unlawful acts and mob attacks thinking that is free speech. NO, you cannot abuse free speech
to make death threats, to conspire to violate civil rights, to incite riots or "yell fire in a crowded theatre."

WE all agree to follow the rules of civility and civil authority,
and we can prevent further violent threats, and we can heal the anger and wounds
that otherwise keep instigating and perpetuating more terrorist attacks.

We have to start with ourselves first, get this right, at home where Americans HAVE
free speech and right to petition. Then maybe we can address the mass chaos on
the border and in Europe with deadly attacks, rapes and crimes going on because of lawlessness.

By agreeing to follow and enforce the same laws, then we CAN protect free speech.
If we let it get abused, we all lose our freedoms to chaos and oppressive martial law.

We unite, then we can compel others to comply and join with us.
We owe this to ourselves, and our future generations who may one day never know war.

 

[emilynghiem]

I understand that your speaking to free speech and think you make fair points. I agree for the most part as I think free speech is an important thing, even if that speech is disgusting and wrong. I will admit that my feelings about the supremacists groups is outside of my normal logic and it is probably fair to call me a hypocrite when it comes to this subject, i'm conflicted and may be speaking more off emotion. The differentiating factor in my mind is the history that has revolved around these issues with Blacks and Jews. Millions have been slaughtered and executed, 2 wars have been fought. It is very difficult for me to entertain the acceptance of public speech and the promotion of ideals that caused so much bloodshed in the past and that have been outright rejected by our country.

We fought a war against fascism. We killed fascists because they were fascists.

Dear The Derp ^ that's what we are trying to avoid. having to go to war as we had to in the past.
Today we have internet and free speech to reach out across the world.
We can intervene, and interact even between members or defenders of either group "at war" here, either
the Antifa or the Nazi/Supremacist hate groups.

We couldn't have these conversations before the Civil War. or the World Wars.
But we have this capability now.

Let's use our freedom of speech and press to REDRESS these grievances.
Let's hear each other out and not censor each other at the point we can still intervene
and divert escalation from going too far into violence and terrorist attacks and war.

Why not learn from the past, and use the capacity we have now
to AVOID fighting fire with fire, fighting fascism with fascism.

We can succeed today, where past generations gave up and went to war.
Fighting over slavery and States rights to secede etc.
Today we're fighting CIVILLY over health care as causing "involuntary servitude" as opposed to states rights and people's choice.

Today instead of fighting the civil war, we're fighting over STATUES from the war.
Surely we can do better today, fighting our battles with words and actually
using them to pinpoint which ideas we can focus on in common, re-establish respectful
relations, and use those relations to build solutions where we agree point by point.
Without slamming each other over the myriad of choices where we disagree, which are always going to be more.

If we agree to respect each other's rights, and quit abusing that to threaten each other's,
that's a start. Let's start from there, and rebuild.

If we want others to hear our concerns, we have to be open to hear theirs.
It's a two way street. And we are blessed to have this freedom to share
over the internet, where these interactions can take place safely.

Let's use what we have, and we can do better than those before us
who didn't have these advantages we cannot take for granted and abuse.