I may have gotten the impeachment thing all wrong

[Slade3200]

ok then consider me a non-neutral player, I’m fine with that. I think the Dems are idiots and I’m still going to say things about that, but go ahead and ignore those comments and consider me as a biased actor promoting an opposing position to yourself... ok, we good now?

Fine. Why should Republicans play fair now when Dems did not during the actual impeachment process/voting?

Why should they play fair? That’s easy, because that’s what honorable people do. You do what’s right not what your opponents are doing... if you act like them then you are no better than they are

Sorry, but in a situation this important and this serious, "dying with your boots on" isn't honorable, it's retarded.

The other side will show no respect for the corpse, the people will not visit the grave, which will hold the marker "They got their asses kicked, but at least they were fair about it"

There was a time when right beat wrong and truth beat lies, and integrity beat manipulation. I still believe that can be true.

Sorry, but bullshit. You are looking at the world via movie lenses, not reality.

Whatever you say man, I’ll use my voice to stand up for honesty and integrity... you can use yours to stand up for winning at all cost if that’s your thing.

 

[Ame®icano]

Yes I recognize that the house inquiry was biased towards the Dems and they unfairly blocked out the Republican from presenting their counter narrative. It’s irrelevant whether I voice that or not back then. I don’t want this to be a personal hypocrisy debate, I’m tired of those.

Dems said they were following the same hearing rules in the House that Reps were using earlier. If so, Reps have no right to complain about the rules, and they are not complaining about hearing rules. They're complaining about not following House rules, about "star chamber", not having access to depositions and witnesses, and not having Minority day hearings. Those are all new things that Dems came up with in order to suppress Reps, and to support their narrative.

I didn’t say I thought McConnells rules were bad behavior, I think if they follow through with blocking of witnesses and documents as many have publicly stated then there will be a public appearance of a dirty cover up. That result would be bad behavior of that’s what happens. IMO

There is no IF they follow thru. They ARE following the same rules used in Clinton impeachment, which means they will hear House case and all the evidence House used to impeach the President and make decision based on that. If there was enough evidence for Impeachment in the House to file Articles, and House claim there is "overwhelming evidence", then there is no point of whining that Senate is blocking witnesses. House acts like they have a case, let's hear the case. House wants to change the rules, Senate says you don't make the rules, we're using the same rules used for Clinton impeachment.

I had originally thought that they would take advantage of this trial to roast Biden. Some are trying to push that narrative and that very well may be where they go. Either way I don’t see either party coming out of this thing looking better and our nation will be weaker as a whole.

I was hoping we'll hear from all witnesses that House couldn't or refused to bring in. Again, senate job is not to investigate, but to try based on evidence used for impeachment. If House wanted more evidence, they should have follow the procedure, wait for courts to make decision, and not try to force Senate to do their job.

yes, house dems broke away from what happened I. The Clinton case to block the Reps. That was wrong. That also doesn’t excuse the Reps to do the same in the senate.

I’m not calling on the senate to investigate anything. It would be great and I think right, to allow the Dems to present documents and witness testimony that trump blocked them from getting in the house as long as it is relevant to the case. If Trump is clean, all these things should help him. Then again if these things would help him then he probably wouldnt be hiding them... right?

You're not listening.

House has own rules. Senate has own rules.

Senate said they will be using the same rules used in Clinton impeachment, no secret there. Dems are treated fairly, since Reps are using rules previously set by Dems. They don't like their own rules, well... too bad.

Instead of pressuring Senate to call witnesses and subpoena documents, they should have done their homework before they voted to impeach and file Articles.

 

[martybegan]

Fine. Why should Republicans play fair now when Dems did not during the actual impeachment process/voting?

Why should they play fair? That’s easy, because that’s what honorable people do. You do what’s right not what your opponents are doing... if you act like them then you are no better than they are

Sorry, but in a situation this important and this serious, "dying with your boots on" isn't honorable, it's retarded.

The other side will show no respect for the corpse, the people will not visit the grave, which will hold the marker "They got their asses kicked, but at least they were fair about it"

There was a time when right beat wrong and truth beat lies, and integrity beat manipulation. I still believe that can be true.

Sorry, but bullshit. You are looking at the world via movie lenses, not reality.

Whatever you say man, I’ll use my voice to stand up for honesty and integrity... you can use yours to stand up for winning at all cost if that’s your thing.

Not "at any cost", but using the rules of the game as applied in the real world.

The question is do you consistently stand up for honesty and integrity, or only when you can back up a position you already approve of.

As with free speech, supporting integrity is easy when it comes to things you agree with, and not really support at all.

 

[Ame®icano]

I’ve been pretty outspoken on how bad of an idea I thought this impeachment move would be for our government and our country. I saw the transition from the House to the Republican controlled Senate bringing a change in focus from Trumps actions to Biden corruption. It doesn’t appear that the Republicans are taking that route. I’ve seen the conservative media blitz working overtime on Biden corruption trying to shine the spotlight on that narrative, that tactic is in full swing, but in the capitol it looks like a race to dismissal.

It was rather astonishing to listen to the Republicans dismiss amendment after amendment after clear documentation and witnesses were presented that would add direct supporting material to the accusations.

It is very clear that the Republicans are not interested in finding the truth, seeing the facts, or even allowing the Dems to use the facts to present their case. They seem to just want to defend the president and dismiss the case. It stinks to high heaven and coming from somebody who doesn’t think Trump should be impeached I will say this path that Trump and the Reps are going down is looking more and more like a dirty cover up. When I first heard the Dems use that term it sounded like political hyperbole... After day 1 it’s sounding pretty spot on

Odd that you could determine all that being that in the past two days, it has all been 90% Schiff repeating all the same crap. I mean, the guy lies every 10-20 seconds! And he had 24 hours just for his opening statement! Not interested in finding the truth? C'Mon. The Democrats IMPEACHED the president. They said they HAD the truth. Schiff said for years he had conclusive proof Trump worked with the Russians.

Turned out that wasn't true.

Then Schiff put up testimony and transcripts that had been falsified.

IMO, the guy has no business being on the case.

The Republicans have all ears open now: it is up to the House to PRESENT THEIR CASE that they found justifiable in impeaching the President. It was the House's job to have already FOUND the truth. If the Democrats are still trying to find them, then that is saying they still have not and never had any case.

The Dems are presenting their case. They would like to use the senates subpoena power to call witnesses that actually should help trump if all was done legally. What’s the problem with that? Are you not interested in what the first handers have to say?

The House has the same subpoena power. They chose not to use it. Instead of letting the Courts work it out, they went ahead with Art. II, which in fact, impeaches Trump for exercising his individual rights. I'm not buying the smoke screen. There are no crimes here. At worse, it is mere policy and privilege. Perhaps some political malfeasance. Obama did worse. Worse still is the corruption which Trump says he was in search of-- -- -- why is this central matter being shoveled under the rug? Especially when the Dems maintain he was out purely to hurt an opponent? If it can be shown the corruption didn't exist, THAT would prove their case. If the corruption really was there, it supports Trump's case! Why is this not central?

WE ALL KNOW THE ANSWER: Because the answer would be an embarrassment to BOTH sides and the US government, as usual, always with a dirty hand.

The House chose to find Trump "forever impeached" based on what they had, so why now DO THEY NEED MORE? Impeached is Impeached. House, present your grounds, your evidence for that decision. Shit or get off the pot. Tired of the games.

I agree with you... all Trump needs to do is show what evidence he had to push for an investigation by Ukraine into the DNC and Biden and explain why he didn’t go through normal investigative channels.

Trumps team seems to want to call hunter to the stand... for what? What would they ask him? He knows nothing about these charges. If Trump has valid evidence to call Ukraine for an investigations then what is it?

Joe and Hunter Biden were smack dab in a three way money laundering & bribery scheme between Russia, Burisma and the Corrupt Government of Ukraine which The Obama Administration was trying to prop up.

The new info is that Ukrainian NABU was planning to reopen investigation into Burisma as of February 2019, way before they held the elections, and way before Trump made that phone call. That set off some alarms in US, and I think that's why Biden joined the race.

 

[Slade3200]

I’ve been pretty outspoken on how bad of an idea I thought this impeachment move would be for our government and our country. I saw the transition from the House to the Republican controlled Senate bringing a change in focus from Trumps actions to Biden corruption. It doesn’t appear that the Republicans are taking that route. I’ve seen the conservative media blitz working overtime on Biden corruption trying to shine the spotlight on that narrative, that tactic is in full swing, but in the capitol it looks like a race to dismissal.

It was rather astonishing to listen to the Republicans dismiss amendment after amendment after clear documentation and witnesses were presented that would add direct supporting material to the accusations.

It is very clear that the Republicans are not interested in finding the truth, seeing the facts, or even allowing the Dems to use the facts to present their case. They seem to just want to defend the president and dismiss the case. It stinks to high heaven and coming from somebody who doesn’t think Trump should be impeached I will say this path that Trump and the Reps are going down is looking more and more like a dirty cover up. When I first heard the Dems use that term it sounded like political hyperbole... After day 1 it’s sounding pretty spot on

IOW you're upset because the defendant won't take on the role of the prosecutor since they're unable to make their case. If you were on trial would you expect your attorney to help the other side convict you?

not at all... how am I asking for the defendant to be the prosecutor?!

By asking them to call witnesses you declined to call yourselves. Let me ask my question another way. If you were on trial, and the prosecutor fucked up his case against you, would you fix it for him?

No of course not, but your example doesn’t apply here. The senators are not the prosecution or defense... they all took an oath to be an impartial jury and told conduct a fair trial. So the more relevant question would be if I was on trial and the prosecution asked the judge to accept documents and witnesses that were relevant to the case that I had blocked the prosecution from getting while I was being investigated... I’m sorry but ide expect that the judge would admit those elements. And it would probably suck because I probably had blocked them because they were detrimental to my case.

 

[Slade3200]

If Dems think there is more evidence, they should have waited for court to decide if they have right to access it. Now, is their current evidence "convincing" its up to the Senate to decide. I don't think it's convincing, since they're asking, rather demanding from Senate, to investigate, which is not their job.

I think that’s a BS argument. Obama’s fast and furious court case over documents lasted 7 years. Are you really supporting a presidents right to completely stonewall congressional subpoenas until years of court proceedings can make a decision?! You don’t see something horribly wrong with that?

Didn't you say earlier "I don’t excuse bad behavior from bad behavior."

But that is exactly what you're doing now. Why is OK to wait for Fast & Furious documents to be stonewalled, and not these? The world is not revolving around Dems, and they have to play by the same rules as everyone.

To answer your question, I don't support stonewalling, I support the same rules for everyone. Dems seems can't accept to follow the rules they set themselves.

I never did say it was ok to wait 7 years for fast and furious. That situation was wrongly handled by the Obama administration... shame

 

[Slade3200]

I’ve been pretty outspoken on how bad of an idea I thought this impeachment move would be for our government and our country. I saw the transition from the House to the Republican controlled Senate bringing a change in focus from Trumps actions to Biden corruption. It doesn’t appear that the Republicans are taking that route. I’ve seen the conservative media blitz working overtime on Biden corruption trying to shine the spotlight on that narrative, that tactic is in full swing, but in the capitol it looks like a race to dismissal.

It was rather astonishing to listen to the Republicans dismiss amendment after amendment after clear documentation and witnesses were presented that would add direct supporting material to the accusations.

It is very clear that the Republicans are not interested in finding the truth, seeing the facts, or even allowing the Dems to use the facts to present their case. They seem to just want to defend the president and dismiss the case. It stinks to high heaven and coming from somebody who doesn’t think Trump should be impeached I will say this path that Trump and the Reps are going down is looking more and more like a dirty cover up. When I first heard the Dems use that term it sounded like political hyperbole... After day 1 it’s sounding pretty spot on

Odd that you could determine all that being that in the past two days, it has all been 90% Schiff repeating all the same crap. I mean, the guy lies every 10-20 seconds! And he had 24 hours just for his opening statement! Not interested in finding the truth? C'Mon. The Democrats IMPEACHED the president. They said they HAD the truth. Schiff said for years he had conclusive proof Trump worked with the Russians.

Turned out that wasn't true.

Then Schiff put up testimony and transcripts that had been falsified.

IMO, the guy has no business being on the case.

The Republicans have all ears open now: it is up to the House to PRESENT THEIR CASE that they found justifiable in impeaching the President. It was the House's job to have already FOUND the truth. If the Democrats are still trying to find them, then that is saying they still have not and never had any case.

The Dems are presenting their case. They would like to use the senates subpoena power to call witnesses that actually should help trump if all was done legally. What’s the problem with that? Are you not interested in what the first handers have to say?

The House has the same subpoena power. They chose not to use it. Instead of letting the Courts work it out, they went ahead with Art. II, which in fact, impeaches Trump for exercising his individual rights. I'm not buying the smoke screen. There are no crimes here. At worse, it is mere policy and privilege. Perhaps some political malfeasance. Obama did worse. Worse still is the corruption which Trump says he was in search of-- -- -- why is this central matter being shoveled under the rug? Especially when the Dems maintain he was out purely to hurt an opponent? If it can be shown the corruption didn't exist, THAT would prove their case. If the corruption really was there, it supports Trump's case! Why is this not central?

WE ALL KNOW THE ANSWER: Because the answer would be an embarrassment to BOTH sides and the US government, as usual, always with a dirty hand.

The House chose to find Trump "forever impeached" based on what they had, so why now DO THEY NEED MORE? Impeached is Impeached. House, present your grounds, your evidence for that decision. Shit or get off the pot. Tired of the games.

I agree with you... all Trump needs to do is show what evidence he had to push for an investigation by Ukraine into the DNC and Biden and explain why he didn’t go through normal investigative channels.

Trumps team seems to want to call hunter to the stand... for what? What would they ask him? He knows nothing about these charges. If Trump has valid evidence to call Ukraine for an investigations then what is it?

Joe and Hunter Biden were smack dab in a three way money laundering & bribery scheme between Russia, Burisma and the Corrupt Government of Ukraine which The Obama Administration was trying to prop up.

haha. I heard they also ride unicorns to work

 

[The Original Tree]

Odd that you could determine all that being that in the past two days, it has all been 90% Schiff repeating all the same crap. I mean, the guy lies every 10-20 seconds! And he had 24 hours just for his opening statement! Not interested in finding the truth? C'Mon. The Democrats IMPEACHED the president. They said they HAD the truth. Schiff said for years he had conclusive proof Trump worked with the Russians.

Turned out that wasn't true.

Then Schiff put up testimony and transcripts that had been falsified.

IMO, the guy has no business being on the case.

The Republicans have all ears open now: it is up to the House to PRESENT THEIR CASE that they found justifiable in impeaching the President. It was the House's job to have already FOUND the truth. If the Democrats are still trying to find them, then that is saying they still have not and never had any case.

The Dems are presenting their case. They would like to use the senates subpoena power to call witnesses that actually should help trump if all was done legally. What’s the problem with that? Are you not interested in what the first handers have to say?

The House has the same subpoena power. They chose not to use it. Instead of letting the Courts work it out, they went ahead with Art. II, which in fact, impeaches Trump for exercising his individual rights. I'm not buying the smoke screen. There are no crimes here. At worse, it is mere policy and privilege. Perhaps some political malfeasance. Obama did worse. Worse still is the corruption which Trump says he was in search of-- -- -- why is this central matter being shoveled under the rug? Especially when the Dems maintain he was out purely to hurt an opponent? If it can be shown the corruption didn't exist, THAT would prove their case. If the corruption really was there, it supports Trump's case! Why is this not central?

WE ALL KNOW THE ANSWER: Because the answer would be an embarrassment to BOTH sides and the US government, as usual, always with a dirty hand.

The House chose to find Trump "forever impeached" based on what they had, so why now DO THEY NEED MORE? Impeached is Impeached. House, present your grounds, your evidence for that decision. Shit or get off the pot. Tired of the games.

I agree with you... all Trump needs to do is show what evidence he had to push for an investigation by Ukraine into the DNC and Biden and explain why he didn’t go through normal investigative channels.

Trumps team seems to want to call hunter to the stand... for what? What would they ask him? He knows nothing about these charges. If Trump has valid evidence to call Ukraine for an investigations then what is it?

Joe and Hunter Biden were smack dab in a three way money laundering & bribery scheme between Russia, Burisma and the Corrupt Government of Ukraine which The Obama Administration was trying to prop up.

The new info is that Ukrainian NABU was planning to reopen investigation into Burisma as of February 2019, way before they held the elections, and way before Trump made that phone call. That set off some alarms in US, and I think that's why Biden joined the race.

Everyone knows Biden joined the race to protect himself, Obama, and his son, and this is why they are attacking Bernie, and trying to drag Dopey Joe's Senile Carcass across the finish line and in to the presidency.

If this thing gets exposed, it will blow the lid off of The Obama Administration's-Clinton Group's Massive Corruption and open them to prosecution and we will see why Trillions of Dollars disappeared during The Obama Administration and why Trump had Audits the first day he took office and started uncovering Massive Fraud Waste and Abuse.

This is why Obama and The Democrats had to launch Operation Cross Fire Hurricane, and COUP 1.0, COUP 2.0 and Impeachment 1.0. They are trying to play beat the clock, and stop Trump from being re-elected, before more of this can be uncovered.

 

[Ame®icano]

"evidence"

LOL

Is it overwhelming?

It's sufficient, convincing and uncontested. Sadly, that won't have anything to do with the way Senators will vote.

It's sufficient and convincing only to those who are trying to get Trump out of office since the day he was elected. Uncontested? I don't think so.

Please explain, what would be the point of Trump asking for dirt against Biden when Biden himself boasted before the Council on Foreign Relations that he had forced the Ukrainian President to fire the prosecutor or forfeit $1 billion?

That is common knowledge. Why should Trump have to pay Ukraine for it?

Vice President Biden’s clear, open admission that he did what Democrats falsely accuse Trump of doing is total proof of the utter corruption of the Democratic Party.

The Dems basically impeached Trump for looking into Biden's (and by extension Obama's) documented corruption.

Exactly.

Now, let’s suppose the Democrats are correct in order to see how inconsequential and commonplace the charge against Trump would be even if true. The US government has historically always, and is forever telling foreign governments to do this or that or you won’t get any money. This is the commonplace behavior of the United States in its foreign policy, which is not based on normal diplomacy but on bribes, sanctions, threats, and, if the country does not comply, we use bombings and invasions.

Trump did not tell Ukraine that he was going to sanction, bomb, or invade if Ukraine did not reopen an investigation that was closed entirely on the basis of Biden’s threat to withhold US aid money. If anyone should be facing a charge, it is Biden.

This is why issues of Executive Privilege vs. Legislative Oversight are should be addressed by the Supreme Court - not used to gin up a fake Obstruction of Congress charge.

"Obstruction of Congress" is even more ridiculous charge than the "abuse of power".

Constitution gives the President the power to obstruct Congress. Every time President vetoes a bill, he obstructs Congress. The idea that obstructing Congress is an impeachable offense is insane nonsense. It works only because most Americans are ignorant on the subject. They do not know what the Constitution says or anything about the balance of powers the Constitution establishes between executive, legislature, and judiciary branches.

 

[bripat9643]

The amendments were designed to drag the process out as far as possible, add new charges not part of the articles, and basically make the whole thing a shit show. If they allowed one side to bring in new evidence, they would have opened a floodgate.

The House was supposed to make it's case via the articles themselves, not with added bullshit afterwards.

they have their case with their articles. They were blocked from getting supporting evidence in the house. I think it completely reasonable for the senate to allow the subpoena of documents and witnesses. Also very reasonable to let a Republican appointed Supreme Court justice determine whether witnesses are material or not. The fact that the Reps blocked that completely shows their cards.

It shows they learned from the Democrats "we control the venue, we control the rules"

There is zero gain for Republicans to play nice when Democrats wouldn't do it in the house.

That's why for the past few decades they have been constantly outmaneuvered by the left.

The gain for Republicans is to show the public a fair trail.

Their is no requirement to make a trial fair for the prosecution, moron.

Do you think about what you say before you post?!

Sure I do. Please show me a law that says a trial has to be "fair" to the prosecution.

 

[Nostra]

You asserting that Trump did nothing is wrong is nice and all, but of course that is not what the evidence and Trump's indictment says.

What you assert is not a serious alternative to a proper TRIAL.

"evidence"

LOL

Is it overwhelming?

Yes evidence Moron, a mountain of evidence.

Then you have no reason to ask Senate to do House's job and investigate. You have mountain of evidence, shitstain.

Who is asking the senate to investigate? Where are you getting this talking point from?

House is asking Senate to subpoena witnesses and documents they were able to subpoena themselves during their investigation. Instead of waiting for courts, they decided to file Articles and have Senate subpoena witnesses and documents, i.e. to investigate. That is not Senate's job, and although Senate can do it, if they find it necessary.

The moron can't grasp that. It has been explained to him numerous times, but he is either too dumb, or such a hack that it won't sink in. He claims he is not biased, so that leaves dumb.

 

[basquebromance]

this isnt a fair trial. its a mockery of trial, my friends!

 

[The Original Tree]

Fine. Why should Republicans play fair now when Dems did not during the actual impeachment process/voting?

Why should they play fair? That’s easy, because that’s what honorable people do. You do what’s right not what your opponents are doing... if you act like them then you are no better than they are

Sorry, but in a situation this important and this serious, "dying with your boots on" isn't honorable, it's retarded.

The other side will show no respect for the corpse, the people will not visit the grave, which will hold the marker "They got their asses kicked, but at least they were fair about it"

There was a time when right beat wrong and truth beat lies, and integrity beat manipulation. I still believe that can be true.

Sorry, but bullshit. You are looking at the world via movie lenses, not reality.

Whatever you say man, I’ll use my voice to stand up for honesty and integrity... you can use yours to stand up for winning at all cost if that’s your thing.

Don't you want to know why The Obama Administration laundered $7 Billion through the Ukraine Embassy to prop up the former corrupt Russian Owned Ukraine Government and keep them in power rather than help the Anti-Corruption Government be elected?

All Obama's, Clinton's, and Biden's former Ukrainian Politician friends fled to Russia after the election.

And you don't want to know why?

Don't you want to know why Obama claimed "Executive Privilege" over his activities in The Ukraine and sealed those records, and why he ordered Joe Biden to have The Ukraine Prosecutor fired before he could finish his investigation in to money laundering and bribery going on with Burisma, The Ukraine Embassy, Russia and Corrupt Ukraine Officials?

 

[The Original Tree]

Odd that you could determine all that being that in the past two days, it has all been 90% Schiff repeating all the same crap. I mean, the guy lies every 10-20 seconds! And he had 24 hours just for his opening statement! Not interested in finding the truth? C'Mon. The Democrats IMPEACHED the president. They said they HAD the truth. Schiff said for years he had conclusive proof Trump worked with the Russians.

Turned out that wasn't true.

Then Schiff put up testimony and transcripts that had been falsified.

IMO, the guy has no business being on the case.

The Republicans have all ears open now: it is up to the House to PRESENT THEIR CASE that they found justifiable in impeaching the President. It was the House's job to have already FOUND the truth. If the Democrats are still trying to find them, then that is saying they still have not and never had any case.

The Dems are presenting their case. They would like to use the senates subpoena power to call witnesses that actually should help trump if all was done legally. What’s the problem with that? Are you not interested in what the first handers have to say?

The House has the same subpoena power. They chose not to use it. Instead of letting the Courts work it out, they went ahead with Art. II, which in fact, impeaches Trump for exercising his individual rights. I'm not buying the smoke screen. There are no crimes here. At worse, it is mere policy and privilege. Perhaps some political malfeasance. Obama did worse. Worse still is the corruption which Trump says he was in search of-- -- -- why is this central matter being shoveled under the rug? Especially when the Dems maintain he was out purely to hurt an opponent? If it can be shown the corruption didn't exist, THAT would prove their case. If the corruption really was there, it supports Trump's case! Why is this not central?

WE ALL KNOW THE ANSWER: Because the answer would be an embarrassment to BOTH sides and the US government, as usual, always with a dirty hand.

The House chose to find Trump "forever impeached" based on what they had, so why now DO THEY NEED MORE? Impeached is Impeached. House, present your grounds, your evidence for that decision. Shit or get off the pot. Tired of the games.

I agree with you... all Trump needs to do is show what evidence he had to push for an investigation by Ukraine into the DNC and Biden and explain why he didn’t go through normal investigative channels.

Trumps team seems to want to call hunter to the stand... for what? What would they ask him? He knows nothing about these charges. If Trump has valid evidence to call Ukraine for an investigations then what is it?

Joe and Hunter Biden were smack dab in a three way money laundering & bribery scheme between Russia, Burisma and the Corrupt Government of Ukraine which The Obama Administration was trying to prop up.

haha. I heard they also ride unicorns to work

More like they ride Vlad Putin Bobblehead Dildos to work, since Putin owns The Biden's ass, like he owns Obama and Clinton.

 

[basquebromance]

nothing else matters except THE OATH that each Senator took to have a fair trial, fair to Trump, fair to The Democrat Party, and fair to the American people, my friends

 

[The Original Tree]

All Roads lead to Ukraine and the Ukraine Elections that voted in An Anti-Corruption Government which The Obama Administration fought to oppose and prevent from being elected.

Remember I said that. Write it down.

There is a bigger reason Biden was ordered to get Shokin fired, and there is a bigger reason why Obama claimed Executive Privilege to have his Ukraine records sealed.

Why did $7 Billion in State Department Funds disappear through The Ukraine Embassy, and why was Clapper, Brennan, Podesta, Biden, Kerry, Clinton, Manafort, & Gates running all over the hell over there interfering in Ukraine Elections & opposing an Anti-Corruption Government?

 

[Slade3200]

Yes I recognize that the house inquiry was biased towards the Dems and they unfairly blocked out the Republican from presenting their counter narrative. It’s irrelevant whether I voice that or not back then. I don’t want this to be a personal hypocrisy debate, I’m tired of those.

Dems said they were following the same hearing rules in the House that Reps were using earlier. If so, Reps have no right to complain about the rules, and they are not complaining about hearing rules. They're complaining about not following House rules, about "star chamber", not having access to depositions and witnesses, and not having Minority day hearings. Those are all new things that Dems came up with in order to suppress Reps, and to support their narrative.

I didn’t say I thought McConnells rules were bad behavior, I think if they follow through with blocking of witnesses and documents as many have publicly stated then there will be a public appearance of a dirty cover up. That result would be bad behavior of that’s what happens. IMO

There is no IF they follow thru. They ARE following the same rules used in Clinton impeachment, which means they will hear House case and all the evidence House used to impeach the President and make decision based on that. If there was enough evidence for Impeachment in the House to file Articles, and House claim there is "overwhelming evidence", then there is no point of whining that Senate is blocking witnesses. House acts like they have a case, let's hear the case. House wants to change the rules, Senate says you don't make the rules, we're using the same rules used for Clinton impeachment.

I had originally thought that they would take advantage of this trial to roast Biden. Some are trying to push that narrative and that very well may be where they go. Either way I don’t see either party coming out of this thing looking better and our nation will be weaker as a whole.

I was hoping we'll hear from all witnesses that House couldn't or refused to bring in. Again, senate job is not to investigate, but to try based on evidence used for impeachment. If House wanted more evidence, they should have follow the procedure, wait for courts to make decision, and not try to force Senate to do their job.

yes, house dems broke away from what happened I. The Clinton case to block the Reps. That was wrong. That also doesn’t excuse the Reps to do the same in the senate.

I’m not calling on the senate to investigate anything. It would be great and I think right, to allow the Dems to present documents and witness testimony that trump blocked them from getting in the house as long as it is relevant to the case. If Trump is clean, all these things should help him. Then again if these things would help him then he probably wouldnt be hiding them... right?

You're not listening.

House has own rules. Senate has own rules.

Senate said they will be using the same rules used in Clinton impeachment, no secret there. Dems are treated fairly, since Reps are using rules previously set by Dems. They don't like their own rules, well... too bad.

Instead of pressuring Senate to call witnesses and subpoena documents, they should have done their homework before they voted to impeach and file Articles.

You honestly don’t think the Dems should be pressuring the senate to allow the docs and witnesses that Trump blocked? Is that what the objective side of your mind is telling you?

Witnesses were heard from in Clinton case as you know... Reps have gone on record saying they wouldn’t vote for them in this case. Of course the Dems are going to juice up public pressure. You understand that don’t you?

 

[Ame®icano]

If Dems think there is more evidence, they should have waited for court to decide if they have right to access it. Now, is their current evidence "convincing" its up to the Senate to decide. I don't think it's convincing, since they're asking, rather demanding from Senate, to investigate, which is not their job.

I think that’s a BS argument. Obama’s fast and furious court case over documents lasted 7 years. Are you really supporting a presidents right to completely stonewall congressional subpoenas until years of court proceedings can make a decision?! You don’t see something horribly wrong with that?

Didn't you say earlier "I don’t excuse bad behavior from bad behavior."

But that is exactly what you're doing now. Why is OK to wait for Fast & Furious documents to be stonewalled, and not these? The world is not revolving around Dems, and they have to play by the same rules as everyone.

To answer your question, I don't support stonewalling, I support the same rules for everyone. Dems seems can't accept to follow the rules they set themselves.

I never did say it was ok to wait 7 years for fast and furious. That situation was wrongly handled by the Obama administration... shame

My point is that left always claim the same, "just because one side did wrong, doesn't mean the other side have to do it", but only after they did it, to prevent the other side of doing the same.

But that is not the case here. What House Dems did to Reps is shameless, but that's House. It's only comparable to how Reps in House treated Dems in past, or future.

Senate rules have nothing to do with House rules. Dems can't and shouldn't complain about it, because those are their own rules set in Clinton impeachment.

 

[Slade3200]

Why should they play fair? That’s easy, because that’s what honorable people do. You do what’s right not what your opponents are doing... if you act like them then you are no better than they are

Sorry, but in a situation this important and this serious, "dying with your boots on" isn't honorable, it's retarded.

The other side will show no respect for the corpse, the people will not visit the grave, which will hold the marker "They got their asses kicked, but at least they were fair about it"

There was a time when right beat wrong and truth beat lies, and integrity beat manipulation. I still believe that can be true.

Sorry, but bullshit. You are looking at the world via movie lenses, not reality.

Whatever you say man, I’ll use my voice to stand up for honesty and integrity... you can use yours to stand up for winning at all cost if that’s your thing.

Not "at any cost", but using the rules of the game as applied in the real world.

The question is do you consistently stand up for honesty and integrity, or only when you can back up a position you already approve of.

As with free speech, supporting integrity is easy when it comes to things you agree with, and not really support at all.

I, like everybody else, have opinions on every issue. Being honest and transparent in the debate is a principle I always stand up for. I can accept differing opinions. I actually enjoy the debate and respect other points of view. But I don’t respect the petty partisan game play and trolling that more and more people are engaging in. And I do expect our legal institutions to act in a fair and impartial manner.

 

[Nostra]

Yes I recognize that the house inquiry was biased towards the Dems and they unfairly blocked out the Republican from presenting their counter narrative. It’s irrelevant whether I voice that or not back then. I don’t want this to be a personal hypocrisy debate, I’m tired of those.

Dems said they were following the same hearing rules in the House that Reps were using earlier. If so, Reps have no right to complain about the rules, and they are not complaining about hearing rules. They're complaining about not following House rules, about "star chamber", not having access to depositions and witnesses, and not having Minority day hearings. Those are all new things that Dems came up with in order to suppress Reps, and to support their narrative.

I didn’t say I thought McConnells rules were bad behavior, I think if they follow through with blocking of witnesses and documents as many have publicly stated then there will be a public appearance of a dirty cover up. That result would be bad behavior of that’s what happens. IMO

There is no IF they follow thru. They ARE following the same rules used in Clinton impeachment, which means they will hear House case and all the evidence House used to impeach the President and make decision based on that. If there was enough evidence for Impeachment in the House to file Articles, and House claim there is "overwhelming evidence", then there is no point of whining that Senate is blocking witnesses. House acts like they have a case, let's hear the case. House wants to change the rules, Senate says you don't make the rules, we're using the same rules used for Clinton impeachment.

I had originally thought that they would take advantage of this trial to roast Biden. Some are trying to push that narrative and that very well may be where they go. Either way I don’t see either party coming out of this thing looking better and our nation will be weaker as a whole.

I was hoping we'll hear from all witnesses that House couldn't or refused to bring in. Again, senate job is not to investigate, but to try based on evidence used for impeachment. If House wanted more evidence, they should have follow the procedure, wait for courts to make decision, and not try to force Senate to do their job.

yes, house dems broke away from what happened I. The Clinton case to block the Reps. That was wrong. That also doesn’t excuse the Reps to do the same in the senate.

I’m not calling on the senate to investigate anything. It would be great and I think right, to allow the Dems to present documents and witness testimony that trump blocked them from getting in the house as long as it is relevant to the case. If Trump is clean, all these things should help him. Then again if these things would help him then he probably wouldnt be hiding them... right?

You're not listening.

House has own rules. Senate has own rules.

Senate said they will be using the same rules used in Clinton impeachment, no secret there. Dems are treated fairly, since Reps are using rules previously set by Dems. They don't like their own rules, well... too bad.

Instead of pressuring Senate to call witnesses and subpoena documents, they should have done their homework before they voted to impeach and file Articles.

You honestly don’t think the Dems should be pressuring the senate to allow the docs and witnesses that Trump blocked? Is that what the objective side of your mind is telling you?

Witnesses were heard from in Clinton case as you know... Reps have gone on record saying they wouldn’t vote for them in this case. Of course the Dems are going to juice up public pressure. You understand that don’t you?

Witnesses were heard from in Clinton case as you know.

3 who had already testified in front of the House. The Senate brought them in to clarify some of their testimony, it was done in secret, and the Dimwingers in charge chose what to selectively make public. I have no problem with the same happening here. How about you?